The NFL Draft, Day 2 (Open Thread)
Most people are confident that Keith Rivers is a good solid draft. No one really knows how to take the Jerome Simpson selection -- though we're all trying to put some positive spin on it. The morning starts with selection #3. Talk the next selection, the first day or what other teams are doing.
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Reviewing Defensive Tackles
Reading on Scouts, and they flag Marcus Harrison as a character problem. His weakness:
Lacks ideal lower body strength. Is not a good fit for a two-gap system. Struggles to take shed blocks at times and does not show the base to anchor in a phone booth. Despite great quickness and mobility for his position, his sack production has never been good. He needs to be more consistent anticipating the snap. Also must improve his array of pass rush moves. Durability and character issues are major concerns
Pat Sims seems like another Domata Peko.
Has a tendency to stand up when he gets tired, lacks elite lower body strength and has problems holding ground against double teams.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com
by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 10:21 AM EDT
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More on Marcus Harrison
He’s listed as the third best player available on the Scouts “best available” board.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com
by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 10:22 AM EDT
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Dan Conner?
Conner is still available. Take him and really solidify our LBs? I know, I know. We need a DT.
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by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 10:23 AM EDT
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Alright Brownie. Show us why you didn’t trade up to get Ellis and make a good pick here.
by R.F. Mehl on
Apr 27, 2008 10:24 AM EDT
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Jamaal Charles
If the Bengals go running back first, Charles is still there.
Reads blocks well and shows adequate patience. Explosive, turns corner quickly and turns on the jets when gets into space. Moves well laterally and is capable of exploiting cutback lanes. Shows good balance, flashes a strong stiff arm and can pick up yards after contact. Changes directions well, can quickly change gears and makes defenders miss in the open field. Has adequate experience catching the ball out of the backfield and isn’t going to drop many passes should catch. Fast enough to go the distance when gets a seam and is a dangerous open field runner after the catch. Doesn’t shy away from contact and shows adequate awareness when asked to help out in pass protection.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com
by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 10:25 AM EDT
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Charles to the Chiefs
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by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 10:32 AM EDT
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Sims
I’m going to put my money on Sims at this point.
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by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 10:32 AM EDT
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Sims is a good pick. I think he fits us better than Laws.
by R.F. Mehl on
Apr 27, 2008 11:01 AM EDT
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A few notes...
...the Bengals coaches were high on Jerome Simpson because of his production and sustaining his “measurable” whereas the more established players didn’t show the measurable or the production - it was either one or the other. Granted, Simpson played against smaller schools, but he dominated. Depending on what happens with Chad Johnson the rest of the off-season - my guess is nothing—then I’d project Simpson to replace the recently departed, Chris Henry. But I imagine the team will have him, Antonio Chatman and Glenn Holt to compete for that spot. And the fact we’re able to draft Sims, makes this pick more accepting anyway.
...drafting Pat Sims gives the Bengals four defensive tackles. With Thornton playing on the final year of his contract and Michael Myers basically playing the role of depth/rotation guy, I wouldn’t be surprised if the team goes after another defensive tackle relatively soon to give the position a complete youth overhaul.
...I know I’m in the minority, but I do like this draft overall. We got our three biggest need positions addressed with seven picks left in the draft.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com
by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 11:06 AM EDT
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Second third-round pick
Alright fellas. Where do you think we’ll go? DT Marcus Harrison is available, but he’s not a “character guy”—I hate that term. I wouldn’t mind having a second DT though, however, do we risk character guy Harrison or get a guy of lesser value?
Also, we should start thinking secondary. At safety Arizona State’s Joshua Barrett and Cal’s Thomas DeCoud is still available.
Perhaps we should go with CB Justin King (Penn State):
Possesses adequate height, good bulk and outstanding straight-line speed. He shows a second gear when tracking the ball downfield. Has quick feet, explodes out of backpedal when coming forward and breaks on the ball well. Flashes the ability to make plays in coverage and is a dangerous open field runner. Fills hard in run support and is an adequate open field tackler. Has experience returning punts as well as kickoffs, has lined up on both sides of the ball and is versatile.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com
by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 11:11 AM EDT
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RE: Justin King
Two picks to go and King is still there.
Y’all need to roll out of bed. C’mon!
Blogger at CincyJungle.com
by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 11:35 AM EDT
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Or CB Tyvon Branch (UCONN)
Smooth opening hips when forced to turn and run, generally reacts well to double moves and fast enough to run with NFL receivers. Changes directions well and shows adequate short-area man-to-man cover skills. Reads quarterback’s eyes and isn’t afraid to come off assignment to make a play on the ball. Shows excellent range in zone coverage and can cover a deep half of the field.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com
by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 11:13 AM EDT
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FanShots
On the front page, down the right hand side, is a thing called FanShots. This is where we can just throw a bunch of multimedia in one spot—like pictures, interviews, chats, videos, etc… post there if you see anything neat. I’ve got a couple of draft videos up.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com
by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 11:32 AM EDT
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Oniel Cousins
Maybe the team should go after guard here. Though he’s projected as a fifth-rounder.
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by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 11:39 AM EDT
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Caldwell
Having Palmer, it’s not a bad pick getting another WR
by R.F. Mehl on
Apr 27, 2008 11:49 AM EDT
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RE:
Definitely the team is preparing themselves for a Chad-less ‘08—either through sitting out or via trade.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com
by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 11:57 AM EDT
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One can only hope
That ‘08 is Chadless. Caldwell and Simpson, Sims and Rivers, I’d have to say I feel a lot better about it than I did last night. Granted, neither Sims or Caldwell was supposed to be available this late so they really can’t say, “We purposefully skipped Ellis and went Simpson in 1 & 2 because we knew Sims and Caldwell would be available later”. Caldwell goes by “Bubba”. I don’t think we’ve ever had a “Bubba” here.
by IgnatiusJReilly on
Apr 27, 2008 12:13 PM EDT
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Fingers crossed for
Marcus Howard!
by IgnatiusJReilly on
Apr 27, 2008 12:18 PM EDT
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For the fourth-pick, OT Anthony Collins?
Anthony Collins, OT, Kansas, is still available and the Bengals had spoken about taking an offensive tackle. This last line of his scouting jumped out.
If developed properly, Collins can emerge as a solid starting tackle (probably better suited at ROT in the NFL) a year or two from now.
Hummm… Andrews playing one-year contract, Levi Jones totally not happy, Willie Anderson getting closer towards retirement?
Blogger at CincyJungle.com
by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 12:19 PM EDT
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could be
Lichtensteiger just went
by IgnatiusJReilly on
Apr 27, 2008 12:21 PM EDT
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That would mean...
Three offensive picks in the first five selections. Not that I have a problem with that, we really need help on both sides, I don’t think it will project well with the desperate needs we have on defense—however, I do think our defense is starting to shape up well w/ Odom, Thurman’s return, Rivers and Sims. Plus our young safeties, two first-round corners, etc…
Then again, this IS the most optimistic time of year for Bengals fans… LOL!
Blogger at CincyJungle.com
by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 12:23 PM EDT
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Gone
You got the jinx power too. Each time I make a suggestion, they’re gone.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com
by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 12:26 PM EDT
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Emails
I have emails to all the college bloggers of the players we drafted to get their impression. Well everyone except Jerome Simpson. It would seem that we don’t have a Coast Carolina blog.
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by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 12:28 PM EDT
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Anthony Collins
That’s a good pick. IMHO.
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by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 12:29 PM EDT
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Collins is a good, if not terribly exciting pick. O-Lineman are like the fat girls at the bar, nobody wants to acknowledge them but, if they weren’t there, half of the guys would never go home with anyone.
by IgnatiusJReilly on
Apr 27, 2008 12:31 PM EDT
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Interesting
Blogger at CincyJungle.com
by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 12:38 PM EDT
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Alright, fifth pick
We have a while before our next pick. I don’t suspect that they’ll go RB anymore simply because we have that late round talent already on roster and, in an optimistic world, the RBs we have already should do the job.
We might be thinking secondary (both S and CB), another o-line (guard, center), at least one defensive tackle and defensive end. I’d be surprised if the remaining five picks aren’t dominated by defense.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com
by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 12:39 PM EDT
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Err. sixth pick, five-round pick.
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by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 12:40 PM EDT
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More considerations
Red Bryant, DT from Texas Tech, is listed on Scouts, Inc. as a late first-day pick. Maybe go that route.
Steven Justice, C from Wake is still available—though I’m not sure if the team plans to address center like I think they should.
Guards aren’t all that impressive right now. Perhaps the team will stay with the status quo there.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com
by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 12:46 PM EDT
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I think Ghiaciuc will get better and that Justice probably wouldn’t be much of an improvement. So defense it is, maybe with a Woodhead from Chadron State thrown in as a slippery little bugger of an RB.
by IgnatiusJReilly on
Apr 27, 2008 12:51 PM EDT
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RE:
Maybe. I just don’t see the team going after RB at this stage. If they were to pick up a guy to make a difference, it would have been early. We have similar talent on roster as it is.
Admittedly, however, I don’t know much about the RBs that are out there. Maybe there’s a sleeper or two.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com
by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 12:53 PM EDT
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Bryant’s gone now to Seattle. Ya know, with the receivers drafted and in place, I wonder whether they have some kind of plan to trade Chad for some interior D-Lineman and maybe a pick or two next year?
by IgnatiusJReilly on
Apr 27, 2008 1:04 PM EDT
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RE: If they do have a trade plan in place
It’s the best kept secret in U.S. history—politics, CIA, etc… included.
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by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 1:10 PM EDT
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Safety
What about Joshua Barrett?
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by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 1:13 PM EDT
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Barrett would be nice
but given the distance between now and our pick and his being one of the only big names out there…?
by IgnatiusJReilly on
Apr 27, 2008 1:18 PM EDT
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Two Wildcats in a row
Jacob Tamme and Keenan Burton to Indy and St. Louis respectively. Is Wesley Woodyard still on the board?
by IgnatiusJReilly on
Apr 27, 2008 1:19 PM EDT
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Woodyard was an LB at UK but probably translates to an in the box strong safety as a pro. 6-1 225, with 4.5 speed and hits like a linebacker? Might be an interesting project and the kid plays hungry. I mean he excelled in the SEC as an undersized middle linebacker. That’s the big leagues. Howard still there as well as Barrett.
by IgnatiusJReilly on
Apr 27, 2008 1:24 PM EDT
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C'mon, C'mon, C'mon!
We pick tenth in round five, fourteen picks away. Yee-hah!
by IgnatiusJReilly on
Apr 27, 2008 1:26 PM EDT
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Pizza
Pizza Hut’s Meat Lover’s pizza is awesome. Just saying…
Blogger at CincyJungle.com
by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 1:53 PM EDT
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This is related to the Draft
You may have already talked about this. Do you think the Chancellor’s idea of structured rookie contracts, like the NBA, is a good idea. It would keep these first round rookies from earning more than they are worth.
by UTRocket on
Apr 27, 2008 1:55 PM EDT
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absolutely
If the veterans know what’s good for them, they’ll address just that at the next CBA. Could be why there’s a movement among player reps to oust Gene Washington as their leader. He’s against such a formula.
by IgnatiusJReilly on
Apr 27, 2008 1:57 PM EDT
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speculation
Speculation is that Gene Upshaw is represented by CAA who also represents many of the high draft picks. PFT has talked about the conflict of interest and something MUST be done about that.
Though I don’t believe anything will.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com
by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 2:01 PM EDT
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YES!
However, it’s not really the entire rookie class that’s the problem. It’s usually the top-five that’s causing the grief of $30 million signing bonuses. Even so, it’s really the top-three. I do think there should be a pay scale for everyone until you reach unrestricted status—or four years experience in the league.
I wouldn’t have a problem with it, but I actually see little peace between the union and NFL that this might be left off the table so they can come to a new CBA—and it has to be soon.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com
by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 2:00 PM EDT
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Howard, Barrett, Woodyard still available two picks before us…
by IgnatiusJReilly on
Apr 27, 2008 2:00 PM EDT
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I'm going to bet
Barrett.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com
by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 2:03 PM EDT
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I’d say Howard is the best value- linebacker at 4.4- but Barrett would be fine too. Woodyard is a good character, scrappy guy who might appeal.
by IgnatiusJReilly on
Apr 27, 2008 2:05 PM EDT
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Kellen Davis
Is also available and the team has scouted him.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com
by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 2:05 PM EDT
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Damn, Pressley was still available? Not anymore. Kellen Davis, strange as it may seem for a TE might also be able to play rush DE.
by IgnatiusJReilly on
Apr 27, 2008 2:06 PM EDT
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Uh-oh, Shirley’s got some character issues but man what a beast.
by IgnatiusJReilly on
Apr 27, 2008 2:13 PM EDT
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Another guy with character issues
Well, I guess you do wait until the later rounds to pick up somebody like that. What a STUD on paper, though. I just don’t know if Cincinnati needs one more guy with character issues…
by TheWalrus1971 on
Apr 27, 2008 2:20 PM EDT
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character
If his troubles came two years ago, or whatever, then I’m fine with that. I do believe in redemption. However, this happened last year and snuffed out a significant portion of his senior season. Even so, would he be ready to play after a layoff like that?
And it would seem a bit early to start taking draft character risks. Is this the trend the rest of the way?
Blogger at CincyJungle.com
by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 2:32 PM EDT
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You'd think we'd learn
...but maybe they told this guy on the initial “we’re taking you” phone call…”You screw up ONE TIME and you’re gone!” Who knows…
BTW, I check you and Hobson several times daily…nice site, and I like the re-work on it.
And yes…Pizza Hut Meat Lover’s (gotta go for the Pan crust!) is like manna from Heaven!
by TheWalrus1971 on
Apr 27, 2008 2:36 PM EDT
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RB
I’m honestly surprised the Bengals haven’t taken a RB yet. I would have liked to see us pick up Mendenhall (and Sweed…guess who got ‘em BOTH!) since Rudi’s performance is slipping, Kenny Watson is good-but-not-the-answer, and Dorsey is a role-player in a pinch at best. Are there any other decent RBs to be had?
I tell you what I DREAM of…and what I hope the Bengals explore…If Levi Jones wants a trade…fine! Send him, Rucker (why not?) and a couple of picks to Oakland…for Michael Bush! C’mon…SOMEbody’s got to leave that crowded RB stable on the Barbary Coast, and it’d be a complete waste to have Michael Bush spend one more season on the bench!
by TheWalrus1971 on
Apr 27, 2008 2:46 PM EDT
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RE: Bush
Interesting idea. Oakland definitely wouldn’t miss a RB. Though I’m not sure if Jones’ demand for a trade is big, of if he’s just entertaining the idea.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com
by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 3:25 PM EDT
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Alright, 7th pick (first of r.6)
Joshua Barrett is STILL available.
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by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 3:30 PM EDT
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I hate to say this but...
Mike Hart is still available. I hate Michigan as much as any Ohioan but Hart runs hard – in a Rudi ca. 2005 kind of way. He also seems like the kind of guy that works best with a chip on his shoulder – and dropping the 6th round will create a huge chip. Of course, Chris Perry continued the tradition of Michigan RBs sucking in the pros; there is not reason to think that Hart will be any different.
"Ryan, Things in here don't react too well to bullets." - Marko Ramius
by TarZander on
Apr 27, 2008 3:35 PM EDT
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C Steven Justice is also available
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by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 3:35 PM EDT
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Corey Lynch?
Don’t we already have him on our roster, only under the names John Busing and Ethan Kilmer?
"Ryan, Things in here don't react too well to bullets." - Marko Ramius
by TarZander on
Apr 27, 2008 3:38 PM EDT
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RE:
Seems like a good special teams player. Not a bad pick, definitely will help. ESPN raved about him before going into a spiel about diamonds found late in the draft. Of course, I’m not connecting the dots. Nope. Not at all. :-)
Blogger at CincyJungle.com
by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 3:50 PM EDT
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Fanshots
Hey guys. While I’m still adding video and such on the posts of the players picked, I’m also putting them in the FanShots. I want you guys to get accustomed to that and use it when you can. It’s a good multi-media repository.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com
by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 3:52 PM EDT
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Unless the Bengals are planning something we don't know about...
...then this appears to be a stupid pick. They didn’t need to pick a TE, no matter what all the experts said they needed. Jeez, for years I said they ought to pick up a pass-catching TE, but we seem to have taken care of that with Utecht (at least I hope so for that amount of cash!).
If you can’t run the ball, you don’t win. Right now, I’m not sure if the Bengals can run the ball.
by TheWalrus1971 on
Apr 27, 2008 5:16 PM EDT
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RE: TE
I can see benefits with this pick. Not only can he play special teams - at least I hope - the Bengals could use Sherry and Utecht on double-TE sets while Reggie Kelly plays H-Back. Might not be used much, but the Bengals could use deception with it. Such as third-and-two. Both Tight Ends chip and find a spot 2-3 years.
Look, this team is known for trends. This pick could actually help - while not mind blowingly help - keep teams honest.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com
by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 6:45 PM EDT
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One critic says, "We suck."
John Clayton names the Bengals as the number 1 loser of the draft. While I don’t think we got the worst of it, it remains to be seen if we addressed the needs that have to be adressed to be a contender again. If Sims works out, I think we’re good; if not, this is going to be a bad draft year.
"Ryan, Things in here don't react too well to bullets." - Marko Ramius
by TarZander on
Apr 27, 2008 5:33 PM EDT
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I disagree with Clayton
First off, it’s really hard to take seriously a national media member that has to shift through 32 teams, 252 picks and how they accurately fit into their respective team—especially WHILE the draft is still going on.
I think the biggest question marks are over-valuing some players, but in terms of the team, I think we solidified several positions. I won’t say it’s great, nor sexy, but it was a solid pick that addressed needs.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com
by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 6:41 PM EDT
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Bearcat!
Hometown boy, Angelo Craig. Doesn’t even need to change his address. Congratulations, Angelo!
by IgnatiusJReilly on
Apr 27, 2008 6:21 PM EDT
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And Cardinal!
Mario Urrutia the wideout from Louisville is our last pick.
by IgnatiusJReilly on
Apr 27, 2008 6:25 PM EDT
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Waste
Complete waste of a pick. We already have two projects at WR, why not try out a different position? We could have taken a flyer at RB (Woodhead), CB (Zenon), or LB (Leman). I know we want to send a message to Chad and TJ, but we’ve already had a few Bennie Brazells – maybe it’s time to try to pick a different position for a change.
"Ryan, Things in here don't react too well to bullets." - Marko Ramius
by TarZander on
Apr 27, 2008 6:32 PM EDT
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RE:
Here’s what ESPN says.
He was injured as junior but still elected to come out early. He catches the ball very well and is a red zone threat. He has strong hands and surprisingly good feet for a big wideout. He has marginal top-end speed, though, and like most big receivers he struggles to separate from coverage.
And you can blame Chad Johnson for forcing the team into stocking receivers.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com
by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 6:42 PM EDT
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FINALLY!
I love the draft, but every year we cover it, I’m worn out. I’m still drinking coffee. ;-)
Blogger at CincyJungle.com
by Kirkendall on
Apr 27, 2008 6:43 PM EDT
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My initial overview:
Let’s see.
A rock solid, athletic, high character linebacker in Keith Rivers that can play anywhere on the second level.
Jerome Simpson and Bubba Caldwell to replace Blocho Twinco.
A promising nose tackle, Pat Sims, that may, I repeat, may help us forget about Sedric Ellis. A steal in round three in any event.
A first team all-American and Outland Trophy nominee OT in Anthony Collins, that’s only been playing football since his junior year of high school, highway robbery in the fourth round.
A solid safety in Corey Lynch and pass receiving tight end in Villanova’s Sherry.
And a handful of projects; Jason Shirley with off-filed/alcohol issues, Mario Urrutia with injury/concentration issues, and Angelo Craig with unspecified team-rule breaking issues.
If one of those three projects pans out, particularly the behemoth- 6-6 330lb, Jason Shirley or the Calvin Johnson-physiqued- 6-6 235lb, Mario Urrutia, we’ll really be ahead of the game.
The receiver situation should be solid. The linebacking corps borderline fantastic. The secondary, just building on how they were playing towards the end of last season, should be a positive force. The D-Line, particularly if we move Eric Henderson into more of a rush end role should shape up well on the ends. And Peko, with Sims, and hopefully a better contribution from Rucker and a healthy Fanene, should at least stabilize the interior.
Hopefully, Willie is healthy, Levi is just blowing off steam, Ghiaciuc has got a better handle on getting some push into the center of the defensive front, Rudi has started eating meat again, TJ can get used to lower numbers as he gets doubled, and we can count on 30+ receptions from the tight end position.
Overall grade of this draft, just on paper: C+
10 picks; seven solid values, and three rolls of the dice.
by IgnatiusJReilly on
Apr 27, 2008 7:15 PM EDT
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