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Not blaming Thurman and Henry on ownership

Anytime anyone talks about the Bengals, I feel this obsessive need to chime in, agreeing with the post or simply breaking it down. "Pigskin Podcast" decided to take a swing questioning the Bengals commitment (mostly ownership and coaching staff). I can't say that I quite understand the 2005 NFL draft example as to questioning their commitment. If anything, picking up players that develop "character issues" should prove that the team will acquire anyone, at any cost, to win.

...the Bengals missed on five of the seven draft picks in 2005, four out of seven if you want to be generous and give them a free pass on the Kieft injury

In truth, I can't see how we blame ownership and the coaching staff for the 2005 draft class. Pollack's broken neck is a freak accident; I can't put that on the coaches and front office. Odell Thurman and Chris Henry, their rookie seasons, were awesome (like we have two potential Pro Bowl superstars, awesome). Thurman lost his mind and Chris Henry is, well, he's Chris Henry. I know there's momentum for the demand that owners and coaches turn into nannies, calling their players to check in with them, etc... In truth, they spend countless hours developing game plans, scouting opponents, free agents and rookies. They shouldn't be responsible for them like nannies (is your employer any more suffocating or intrusive?) that takes time away from the thing that truly matters in sports -- winning. Eric Ghiaciuc is a starter, Jonathan Fanene could prove as vital among a defensive line rotation that shows promise (that's my insufferable optimism). Adam Kieft and Tab Perry could out of the NFL because of injuries suffered while IN the NFL.

Let's recap. You can't say that Pollack, Kieft or Perry were misses (injuries shouldn't be blamed on coaches and front office failures... ha, though there is the point of questionable medical staff issues, another time). Fanene and Ghiaciuc are still playing -- one of which is a starter. And depending on your point of view, Henry and Thurman may or may not be "misses". But they were huge contributors for the Bengals 2005 playoff run. Huh?

Odell Thurman was nominated (along with Shawne Merriman, Lofa Tatupu, DeMarcus Ware and Cadillac Williams) for the Diet Pepsi NFL rookie of the year. Like Merriman (primary reason why suspended players for violating drug policy are no longer eligible for the Pro Bowl), Thurman failed a drug test (by missing the test). Like Tatupu, Thurman was charged with a DUI (it should be noted that Tatupu pled not guilty). Thurman was also a finalist for Defensive Rookie of the Year. In 2005, when Thurman played, he was by far the team's best defensive player. If you want to blame the coaching staff -- the hope for a nanny-like lockerroom -- then go for it. Again, this is totally based on perspective. Mine is that I believe the "miss" is from Thurman's own actions; he has no one to blame but himself (he's suspended indefinitely now). The coaching staff did nothing wrong here; they drafted a hell of a defensive talent, he betrayed them. When the Bengals drafted and started Thurman, no one called up the radio shows, wrote in their respective blogs about the horrible selection that Thurman would become. Thurman IS a bust; but blame should hardly be given to the Bengals. Unless that's your thing, just to rip the team. If so, go to town. I won't stop you.

In his first two seasons, Chris Henry recorded 15 touchdowns receiving. T.J. Houshmandzadeh and Chad Johnson thrived with him in the lineup; another "major" reason why the Bengals made the playoffs their rookie season. Three years later, his house and car were repossessed and potentially faces another year-long suspension. Again, if you want to blame the team for Henry's five arrests (I think that's what it's up to, I lost count), then go for it. Based on my own perspective, I can't. Henry is a man grown that was easily persuaded by less-than-reputable people making his own decisions that now faces consequences far more than he can pay.

The only logical argument to make, regarding commitment and the 2005 draft, was keeping Thurman and Henry around -- though the CBA made it awfully difficult to simply dump them. So the Bengals tried to rehab them. And it never worked out. But the point can be made that the Bengals tried to keep two stellar talents at the risk of looking foolish in the media and among the NFL community -- even putting up with pissed off Bengals fans -- proves that they do, in fact, commit.

I do have to give Pigskin Podcast credit. They hit the nail on the head with the team's lack of scouts, horrible defensive progress (or great defensive regress) during the Marvin Lewis era. Lacking an indoor facility, making questionable contract decisions, having a family run the front office stubbornly refusing a General Manager, etc... As for answering the call for "commitment", the only that truly makes sense in the piece is the scouting department. It's actually a good read, though I personally don't agree with their points (but that's alright, we can all be cool by disagreeing, right?)

Moving on (with a twist of irony).

Since Jason Shirley's re-trial doesn't begin until August 27, the defensive tackle will be able to work through all of training camp. The problem could be this: if he's found guilty, he'll likely miss time on a Chancellor Roger Goodell suspension -- along with the time missed while in trial (which could be kickoff weekend). You can read all of Shirley's updates here.

As per NFL.com's Adam Schefter, the Bengals have either expressed, or still show, a limited interest with LeCharles Bentley. Expects a "decision" to be made after July 4 and it wouldn't him if it were "one of the AFC North teams".

The Bengals waived long-snapper Tim Bugg.

Poll
Do you blame the front office and/or coaching staff for Chris Henry and Odell Thurman?
  • Yes, both.
  • Just ownership for keeping them around so long.
  • Just coaches for not doing more to help them.
  • No. Players need to be responsible for themselves.

  321 votes | Results

0 recs | Comment 6 comments

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Coaches should coach...owners aren't nannies!

If you think coaches should be nannies over their players, with locker rooms exerting oppressive, dictatorial (albeit sometimes necessary) control, go back to watching college football. This is the NFL.

Owners aren’t nannies, either, but I will fault the Bengals’ ownership for drafting Henry since he already had character issues at West Virginia. Marion Barber, Brandon Jacobs, Brandon Jones, Roydell Williams…just a few of the names that were still on the board when Chris “one-man crime wave” Henry was taken in the 3rd round!

by TheWalrus1971 on Jun 27, 2008 12:56 PM EDT   0 recs

Henry

I can accept that. At the same time, Henry’s “red flags” were his on-the-field conduct rather than any run-ins with the law. Not saying one is better/worse than the other, just that we didn’t really see the run-ins before we drafted him. I didn’t include that because I wasn’t 100% (still not, and I’m wiped out from excessive writing the past few days) :-)

Blogger at CincyJungle.com

by Kirkendall on Jun 27, 2008 2:13 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Great Post

Great post! A very thoughtfull look at thre Dark Side of ‘05, the Marvin era’s turning point year … in many ways. And I couldn’t agree more—-the Thug Bros were (and are) the masters of their domains. Sadly, they chose these paths. In NO WAY is the team to blame for their behavior. But is to blame for their presence. I think the Thug Bros were part of a ‘deal with the devil’ effort to break the 15-year skid. They represented blind desparation on Brown’s part, and raw ambition on Lewis’ part. Each Thug Bro came with his own “Sold As Is” tag. It was dicey from the get-go. Hey, if you’re the Pats or Colts, you can afford losing a second or third rounder, cuz you’re pretty deep in talent. The Thug Bros were way too risky of a gamble … a gamble the Bengals just couldn’t afford to lose. If there’s anything I’ve learned in life it’s buy high-quality toilet paper, and hire high-quality people.

by Timzilla on Jun 27, 2008 2:43 PM EDT   0 recs

Risk vs. Reward

I can’t remember when, but I made a general post about this. Teams like the Bengals - since there’s no team like the Bengals, let’s just say teams that haven’t won in a really long time - will tend to make more aggressive transactions. If you’re already a winner, then you don’t have to worry much about players you acquire.

Sports is about winning. You HAVE to do what you can to win. It’s true that Mike Brown isn’t of that mind, but Lewis started to mix that idea into his head. With Lewis came more risky selections in the draft stealing talent at later rounds that other teams just didn’t want to deal with. As a result, when they played, we won. Then the risk part became apparent afterward and then we lost.

It was win now, worry later. Now it’s build now, win later. It’s why I don’t think Marvin is on the hot seat… you can almost tell that this off-season, except for Chad’s joyful off-season fun, that the Bengals are retooling in a lot of ways - especially attitude. It’s just different than it was in ‘06 or ‘07. There’s a general feel of team - which I asked earlier this month, did Chad’s off-season antics accidentally unify this team?

Blogger at CincyJungle.com

by Kirkendall on Jun 27, 2008 2:53 PM EDT   0 recs

I don’t blame the muckety-mucks for taking a chance on Henry and Thurman. As nice as TheWalrus’ list is, those on it either didn’t have the talent- Roydell Williams- or weren’t needed because of Rudi. It’s also not unreasonable to assume that people will outgrow childish things- and behaviors- as they age. The moodiness springing from so long on a losing squad aside, Corey Dillon put aside his college transgressions to be a borderline Hall of Famer, for example. I also differentiate between Henry, who I think isn’t a good person, and Odell, who I think is a good guy with a tragic problem.

I do question the support system available to these two. I question where the veteran players were to take them under their wings and kick them in the ass when needed. I wonder whether Odell could have held it together had his friend and college teammate Pollack not had his career shortened and been there with him.

And I do blame Roger Goodell for singling out Odell and making an example of him with a suspension that dwarfed those of other players who had similar infractions. I seriously question whether it’s not a violation of the Americans With Disabilities Act. Ostracization is the not the proper way to deal with an addict. Not if you actually give a shit about him, anyway.

In terms of blame, there’s a lot we probably don’t know and, given his stupendously crappy track record, I’m sure Mike Brown probably did something blameworthy in this fiasco. Marvin? Marvin doesn’t really ever do anything, except maybe fiddle while the locker room’s burning down around him.

by IgnatiusJReilly on Jun 29, 2008 9:27 PM EDT   0 recs

I don't know

While you make some cogent points, I have to disagree. Henry and Thurman weren’t on a sizable number of nfl draft boards because of their character issues. But the Bengals have had a fetish with guiding troubled players to the light. This strategy has produced some amazing players and some real foul balls but the blame and praise lies squarely on the shoulders of the management and coaches. The NE Pats didn’t have either on their board because of character issues. While you can’t expect nfl teams to provide daycare, they could take the time to research these individuals and come to the same conclusion that the majority of other nfl teams did: they aren’t worth their baggage.

by Cmegga on Jul 2, 2008 12:51 AM EDT   0 recs

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