i can’t really say i don’t understand why you would say that about the state of the bengals defensive, tho i would have to disagree on a few points. as far as no play-makers i would say that geathers, joseph, odom, and jackson have proven themselves as playmakers, and hall, rivers, ndukwe and white have at least entered the ring.
tho everyone says you’re not allowed to say it, the fact is the defense’s number one problem over the last few years has been injury, and not just randomed starters injured here and there, but position groups being wiped out year after year. go back to the safeties three years ago when we had herring and williams out, after losing our 2nd string SS we were starting arizona’s third string SS ohalate (if i spelled it wrong it’s cause i’m not gonna bother to look it up). then it was the O line, then the LB’s….we all remember.
tho reading what i wrote it occurred to me that there is an equal biggest problem, our team is designed for the offensive to be able to move the ball, and control the clock. you don’t have to look much further than last year’s run of one third-down coversion in eighteen attempts to see from where the defensive issues stem.
....first post and it was a long one….sorry….i really enjoy your site tho!!

IF we can run the ball again this year, then the defense doesn’t have to be full of playmakers and be Top 5, in order for the Bengals to be successful, it just has to be a step better than it was in the past.

CB: Joseph and Hall have another year under their belt, and Deltha as the nickel isn’t bad, and is much better than having Tory (Skeletor) James out there.
S: Possibly a step back losing Madieu, but he didn’t play any better than Marvin White last year. Jackson, White, and Ndukwe isn’t a bad rotation
LB: Rivers is a stronger, faster version Landon, and while Dhani and Jeanty are ‘stop-gap’ type players, they are better line backers than Geathers, and Corey Mays, picked up off the street.

D-Line: Thornton needs to be upgraded, but I believe Odom, overall, will be comparable to J. Smith with a better pass rush, and weaker run support, which is a trade off I’m willing to take. If Geathers can actually stay at End, he and Odom will create more pressure than we seen in years. Also,It doesn’t take years to learn how to play DT, so I think Sims or Shirley will be an upgrade as 3rd and 4th tackles.

I think that each unit is better than last year, and while non of them are great if a whole unit doesn’t get decimated, as BFS pointed out, the D will be good enough.

OK, I’m really NOT trying to sound like an angry Bengals fan…but in all honestly, lets call a spade a spade. Yes, I am pessimistic because every year I think things are going to change, and of course they never do. That’s why I come across the way I do. Addressing a few of the comments…

BFS:

So you think this defensive unit is full of playmakers? You serious?? Jonathan Joseph a playmaker? I’d have to blatantly say, not so much. I DO like Joseph and here we all go again, I think Joseph has “Great Potential.” But, crimany, aren’t we all getting tired of talking about how great our players might one day be?!?

I don’t think I need to sit here and reiterate how many interceptions J-Jo should have in career by now, do I? Anyone remember, oh I don’t know…12 BLATANT drops that he’s had??

Playmakers don’t drop interceptions, BFS.

And Odom? Ahhhh, I don’t know. Maybe. (Aka, he’s got “potential”)

Dexter Jackson? C’mon. Like I said, homeboy should change his name to Larry Brown.

But yes, you’re right. Injuries HAVE played a huge part to that defense’s demise in ‘07. But you want to tell me how the Bengals are different in that regard to EVERY other team in the NFL?!? Injuries are a part of the game. Team’s only have 53 man rosters. Every team faces it. Injuries are not an excuse.

RFM:

I agree with you. This defense doesn’t have to be a top 5 unit in order for the Bengals to be successful. But clearly they can’t be a bottom 3 unit either. The offense can’t go out every week, every series, every quarter, etc and pitch a perfect game.

And I also agree that even with my pessimism, the secondary is clearly better than the secondary that sported Afani Ohalete. (However the heck you spell his name) Speaking of the spelling though… Who cares if any of us misspell his name! That dude sucked so bad he doesn’t deserve for anyone to spell his name correctly! He’s lucky he gets mentioned for crying out loud.

Anyways, my point is that being better than that doesn’t say much.

Any for everyone that thinks we can anoint Keith Rivers a star and a playmaker, does anyone remember the rookie year David Pollack had? When you miss half of camp like Rivers did, lets not pretend the kid is going to magically be inserted into the lineup in September and everything will be just peachy. All Keith Rivers is TODAY is a player who has “Potential.” The guy hasn’t played one down in the NFL and you’re trying to tell me he’s a playmaker?? Don’t you have to first make plays to be a playmaker? Yeah, he’s a 1st round pick out of a big time college. You know what?? So was Javon Langford.

And TimZilla…I do like reading your comments. Really. But it’s obvious you and I just differ in our thoughts…

...but my “analysis” wasn’t based off of seeing one practice. It was based off of 25 years of frustration. Moreover, it doesn’t take an expert to see that the group of misfits that team has masquerading as an NFL defense is pretty sad.

injuries don’t matter? alright, but when pitt lost three starters (only 3) they went 1 and 3 to finish the season….they lose 43 and they’re a different team.

as to how the bengals injuries have been different from every one elses, i thought i made that point, but here it is again. no team in the nfl can have an entire postion group decimated and expect to win. if you lose 5 starters that’s bad. when they are all safeties it’s devastating. when u loose 14 lb’s in a season your def is gonna struggle. when the millions you spent on your O line are injured on the bench you are gonna become one dimensional and easy to defend, one run to nowhere and two passes, another three and out. Get back out there and win D!

sure every 20 years somebody finds a tom brady, but if you really could replace a 1-6 mill a year starter with a $250, 000 back up, then why in the world would anyone ever make anything beyond league minimum?

i would love to see the breakdown of injuries the bengals have had since the browns game in 06….btw…..that’s when they started losing after their rise in 05. that game it was dexter jackson, tab perry, pollack and a fourth i can’t remember…want to say it was the game we lost rich braham. dexter was the only to return that year….or any year…...tab was certainly never the same.

but the real point again is not just the amount of injuries to starters but how we have almost freakishly been hit over and over in the same position group. safeties that year, LB’s this year. O line every year….i wasn’t gonna mention rb’s but….rudi, perry, irons…1,2, and 3 on the roster…..remember the game we ran outta centers? how bout the kicker we signed to cover for graham for a game and he took a season ending injury on his only play and they had to pay him for the whole year? LOL!!!

i understand why you can’t just say “hey, we lost a key guy so now we can’t win”. but if you really think injuries don’t play a part in wins and loses, well, the bitterness has clouded your judgement. what bitterness? not really sure how the bengals def 25 years ago has anything to do with the practice you watched….goin out on a limb, but i’m gonna say most of 1983’s roster has retired.

now all that said, do i want to see better play on that side? absolutely. was there a problem with the scheme in my opinion? maybe, but again the offense failed to score 21 points in 5 of the 9 losses last year and two of the wins. they scored only 21 in three more games, 1 win and 2 losses. have i seen bad plays? of course, i’ve seen plays that made me wanna rip the tv off the wall…but remember that every team gets scored on pretty much every week. why? cause somebody on D got beat. the fact is the bengals are where every team that competes is, looking to improve depth and hoping to stay healthy.

i remember the D playing very well in several games towards the last third of the season…..and i remember plays being made….geathers is really not a play maker? and all those dropped int’s joseph had his rookie year i believe go in the stat books as passes defended, not passes dropped. dexter has a superbowl mvp and ring that speaks way louder than you will ever type.

we have what is supposed to be one of the most potent offenses in the nfl, and it ’s coming into camp healthier than it’s been in 3 years…...they damm well better make that D look bad at practice.

as bengals fans we’ve lost so long and have seen so many bad teams wear the stripes that it starts to feel like everyone else is on top…we were just on the bottom….now we have a top 12 team, at least top 16 because of carson and the o line alone. as far as “potential” we have a team that could be elite. the bengals is now a team that was put together very well from players to coaches, but face it…it’s designed to be an offesive power….so when that isn’t working the concept won’t work and who will end up looking bad? the defense. i understand your frustration but i’m tired of hearing people beat on the defense for what really amounts to the offense not doing what they were paid the big money to do. just like every other GOOD football team in the nfl, you have to have your best players playing at their highest level, you have to get a few balls to bounce your way (every steelers playoff game in 05), AND YOU HAVE TO STAY HEALTHY!!

now seriously…...can i borrow your towel? my car hit a water buffalo.

Understandably, the preseason is just that and we all know it. I think we all know we can’t get too excited over good, bad, or indifferent play. However, weren’t we all looking for a spark, someone to make some plays and step up? Something??

Geathers made a nice play…and actually so did my man “Larry Brown.” But Marvin White’s 4 missed tackles (all that went for 1st downs and a 30 yard TD) left me just shaking my head.

Him getting TRUCKED by Donald Driver was the most embarrassing. Hey dude, those long things attatched to your shoulders…with hands at the end of them?? ...yeah, those are arms. Use them.

I thought Rivers looked the part. The other linebackers in my opinion kept getting caught up in the wash on almost every play—which isn’t good. (Johnson made a nice play that I saw though).

I thought all of the DB’s looked flat out attrocious. That first series should have been a completion on 3rd and 19. There was actually a few key drops that Green Bay receivers made that bailed our group out on 3rd downs.

Rod Jones…I mean, David Jones can go ahead and become our new “Toast” it seems. (Maybe a bit harsh…but I think it’s kinda funny. Was I the only one that saw a Bengals Corner named Jones being burnt and NOT think “Toast“)

Those guys made Arron Rodgers look like a stud.

OK…

1st…you’re either in high school or college cause there’s no WAY you have a job. If you do have a job, I’m sure you’re bound to lose it. Take a knee.

2nd…If you think Corey Lynch is a “Playmaker” cause he blocked a field goal for App. St., why don’t you go back to watching college football.

3rd…If you think Marvin White is playmaker, you must not have tuned in Monday Night. He made lots of plays alright. Just real bad ones, unfortunately for us.

4th…I take back my original thoughts (sorry Kirkendall), Apparently not everyone on this forum has something good/relevant to say.

5th…I apologize for sounding pessimistic and realize I come across that way. I understand this is a place for Bengals fans to talk positively and enjoy each others feedback…so apparently I’m out of line and fans who have honest and realistic opinions shouldn’t bother contributing. Brent, you did a marvelous job in making me realize that. Good for you. I think I should go away and leave “blogging” to intelligent idiots and homers who refuse to see both sides of the coin. WTF was I thinking?? Thanks for telling me to lick your nuts too. You’re a real class act. I’d like to shake your hand. I wish I could.

I’m not trying to act like a “prophet” nor do I want to say I told you so…

But it looks…REAL bad.