Will we make a trade before the deadline?

by TennBengalfan on Oct 15, 2009 9:02 PM EDT Comment 37 comments

History says no we wont, but I have gotten a strange feeling in the past few days that something may happen before the deadline. I'm thinking if we do trade away anybody it would be Laveranues Coles, especially with him getting benched last week for Chris Henry. We all had high expectations for Coles and maybe he would be a TJ replacement. Caldwell has more than stepped up for that role and Coles just seems to be a waste of money at this time. It would have to be a team looking for a wideout and give a good offer that would not be any draft picks, because we know Mikey doesn't like to pay the draft picks he already has, why would he want another one. I'm thinking maybe a player for player trade for a nice cornerback. I don't know, its just a feeling I have, plus Coles hasn't really produced and seems to have a hard time getting open. So with Henry, Ocho, and Caldwell do we really need him anyway? I think we may do a trade but i'm just thinking thats who it would be if we did. I will give it to Coles, he does hustle, and if he stays(which he probably will) I would like for him to step it up. Just a thought for us to discuss until the deadline. Comment please and lets hear some trades you might like to see!

Poll

Would you trade Coles?

Yes, for a player

56 votes

No, he will step it up

65 votes

Yes, for draft picks

37 votes

158 votes | Poll has closed

1 recs | Comment 37 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

But

Who would want him?

by brandone on Oct 15, 2009 9:18 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs

Ravens, Bears, 49ers, St Louis, Tampa Bay, Browns, etc....

they are all short on WR

CB85

by TennBengalfan on Oct 15, 2009 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Look out for Kansas City...

They just replaced WR’s coaches, and the last time the new guy was a WR coach was L. Coles biggest year in NY.

Trade predictions are always a stretch, but I think KC’s need for a WR and your apparent willingness to deal Coles, I could see a deal being made. No idea what you’d get in return, but I think you’d have some choices.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Oct 16, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/john_lopez/10/14/trades/index.html

This article proposes a trade of Anthony Collins for Aaron Kampman. Just thinking of a third down pass rush of Peko, Odom, Geathers and Kampman gets me excited.

by cmick on Oct 15, 2009 9:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

No way would i trade Collins

we are already short on talent for the O-line and Collins is pretty good filling in for Smith, And dont forget about Michael Johnson. I doubt we need another D-lineman

CB85

by TennBengalfan on Oct 15, 2009 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I might do that trade

by patrick6h on Oct 15, 2009 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

so its ok for Carson to get sacked alot if we can get more pressure?

CB85......Collaros for Heisman

by TennBengalfan on Oct 15, 2009 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

we have Andre coming back and our backsups have been great plus Kampman would make odom a super beast on the other side

by patrick6h on Oct 15, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

what backups?

CB85......Collaros for Heisman

by TennBengalfan on Oct 15, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dennis Roland has been great alternating for him and Andre Smith would just take Collins role now

by patrick6h on Oct 15, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What if Andre gets hurt again? or isnt near as good as Collins?

your riding to much on one guy here. But if we trade Collins i’ve lost all faith in good decisions made by Bengals. I think if we needed a d-lineman we woulda drafted Raji or Everette Brown instead of Smith

CB85......Collaros for Heisman

by TennBengalfan on Oct 16, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't make the trade..just thought it was interesting

I have no idea what Kampman makes, but with Geathers and Odom eating up as much salary there’s no way the Bengals invest more in another DE. Plus with the inevitable injuries on the O-line every year, solid backups are pretty valuable.

by cmick on Oct 16, 2009 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah I don’t think this was a good idea either, but then again, it’s kind of fun to be greedy for extra good players sometimes. :)

by FriarBob on Oct 16, 2009 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

BTW

Raiders have said all their players are on the block. They got a decent TE and a hell of a CB

CB85

by TennBengalfan on Oct 15, 2009 9:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Zach Miller > Daniel Coats

Hall > Asomugha

"If it wasn't this, it'd be something else."

by ZJiff30 on Oct 15, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was thinking late draft pick trade for a player

I would like to keep Hall+get Asomugha too :)

CB85......Collaros for Heisman

by TennBengalfan on Oct 15, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t know if Hall is better than Asomugha or not, but they are both really good and who wouldn’t want to have both if they could pull it off? Given that JJ is pretty good as well that would be an absolutely killer secondary. But on the other hand, with his contract I don’t see any way the Bengals could fit it into the salary cap right about now.

I would love it if we could get our hands on Miller tho. I appreciate how hard Coats has tried, but he just isn’t cutting it at this point.

And Senile Al does have a bit of history now for drafting receivers who can’t catch the ball… so he should love to have Coles, right? :)

by FriarBob on Oct 16, 2009 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or for that matter lets trade Coats for Miller. That kind of wacko trade should be right up Senile Al’s alley, right? :)

by FriarBob on Oct 16, 2009 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Derrick Johnson

If the Chiefs are willing to sell Derrick Johnson low we could get him and keep as a back up and next season move Rey to MLB and have him start at OLB to replace Dhani

by patrick6h on Oct 15, 2009 10:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Id like to see us draft Spikes next year instead, and keep Rey where he is.

If you don't live like you wanna, you live like you shouldn't

by trotanoy on Oct 16, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Spikes would be a great OLB

"Ghiaciuc's play was a distraction"

by firstPick on Oct 19, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not going to happen

by jsl413 on Oct 15, 2009 10:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I know....thats what i said "probably not going to happen"

but its fun to speculate and propose trade ideas

CB85......Collaros for Heisman

by TennBengalfan on Oct 15, 2009 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Zach Miller would be awesome

Just think how much more potent our offense would be with a great receiving tight end. I hope Coffman progresses, but at this point it’s looking doubtful when he’s not even dressing.

It’s getting to the point where more teams than not have big time talent at tight end. Dallas Clark, John Carlson, Kellen Winslow, Tony G., Antonio Gates, Greg Olsen, Vernon Davis, Zach Miller, Owen Daniels and so on. How many more years are we gonna go without one?

by St. Esiason on Oct 16, 2009 4:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Coles' Blocking Skills

If you go back and watch the big runs Benson had you’ll see one of the major differences between a 5 – 10 or 20 yard gain is the superior run-blocking skills of Coles. We won’t trade him as his cap hit is quite hefty and he knows our playbook. That would mean you have to trade him to a) someone you won’t meet in the regular season and b) someone who you wouldn’t meet in the playoffs.

Coles’ drops are enfuriating and he needs to man up and get it done.

(on to the trade for a TE talk) Personally i would have got Coffman some game time action – not against the Steelers or the Ravens – because against teams with weak secondary and poor pass-rushes he can be used as a possession reciever who just sits beneth zones and gets you those 5-7 yard advances. Good teams use TEs who can’t block all the time. All you do is teach him how to chip block and such and use him as a H-back (this year… next year pass blocking).

These guys “Dallas Clark, John Carlson, Kellen Winslow, Tony G., Antonio Gates, Greg Olsen, Vernon Davis, Zach Miller, Owen Daniels” are all not blockers you could rely upon against teams which blitzed in the packages the Ravens and Steelers do. The teams use them as mismatches because of thier speed versus LBs and strength and size advantages against DBs. Coffman can fill that role in most team’s playbooks but ours requires TEs to block most of the time and occasionally drop a TD pass

by Sheffieldbengal on Oct 16, 2009 6:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think you’ve nailed the problem why Coffman isn’t out there. But while I have absolutely eviscerated Bratkowski in the past for personnel groupings where you knew exactly what he was going to do (and then somehow he was surprised when it didn’t work) I do think you can make an exception for a single player. Or maybe I should say you can make things work even when a certain player makes people think you are going to do something so long as you do not actually do it every time!!!

You cannot put Rudi in (back in 07) and then try to run every time he’s in, but you CAN put Benson in (or whomever) and then run some of the time and pass other times. And if you put Coffman in but he’s not the only receiver and then sometimes you pass to him or somebody else AND sometimes you run a draw or something other form of running play, then it’s OK if he’s not the best run-blocker in the universe yet. Because then you are actually using his lack of strength as a blocker to your advantage by fooling the defense.

As an example, look back to week 1 Saints vs. Lions. Yeah the Lions aren’t all that great but they are a LOT better than last year (they’ve already won one game and even gave the Steelers a bit of a scare). But the point being that deception is a key part of an effective offense. There was a play there in which Robert Meachem was in as the only WR and the rest of the personnel grouping on the field was an obvious power formation (1 WR, 2TE, FB, RB, QB, standard OL). The deception was even more effective because Meachem truly is better as a run blocker than a receiver at this point. Drew used play action to the RB and then threw a nice TD bomb to Meachem.

We aren’t the 2008 Saints or even the 2005 Bengals when we threw the ball 50+ times a game or whatever. But that doesn’t mean we can’t have a little creativity in our play calling where we are trying to fool the defense into thinking we are running when we are passing or vice versa.

by FriarBob on Oct 16, 2009 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

nice job Shef, couldn't agree more

You can go back and watch Benson’s 23yard touchdown against the Steelers, and the main reason Ced turns that last corner is because Coles brilliantly blocks his man and provides plenty of sideline room for Benson to take it to the house. Coles is an experienced vet who just needs a little more time with Carson. Dude has over 600 career receptions. Look back at last season: Carson had trouble getting in sync with freakin TJ. That’s what a lack of a preseason can do.

Coles has been a perennial threat at the wideout position despite crappy QB’s and lackluster offensive schemes. Defenses have to respect him. In fact, Coles is a prime example for my optimism for this offense. We’ve yet to see the best of what our Bengals O can do, but we have witnessed progression week in and week out. Screw the wildcat, defenses are getting headaches trying to prepare for a team that has put a lot of emphasis on its rush attack, yet can drop that philosophy and make hay in some complex spread formations.

With all that said, Coles is an integral component of both downfield blocking in the ground attack, as well as a member of an elite quartet of receivers in the spread attack. Call him what you will, but thus far I’d say he’s been productive in more ways than indicated by the stat sheet. Please nix the trade talks, we wouldn’t be celebrating the victories against the Steelers or Browns had Coles not converted key 3rd and 4th down plays.

3 yards and a pile of dust

by Hudepohl Dey on Oct 16, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Trades

I agree they cannot and should not trade Coles at this point. He is an above average run blocker (as is Ocho) which makes a strong case to keep him. Plus, although he has had a few drops, he has barely been targeted enough to get a good read on what his problem is right now. I know for one, the first play of the game vs. Baltimore which resulted in an incompletion was not his fault. Palmer released the ball early and Coles didnt have enough time to get his head around. Although overall that should have been a first down completion to open the game. But that doesnt matter because we WON.

I would love to see more production out of the tight end spot, but the team has to consider that they were expecting Kelly and Utecht to be there which ate into the salary cap. Coffman was clearly going to be a project coming into this season, so to expect him to come in and produce is like expecting Jerome Simpson to suddenly come in and produce. Not going to happen.

However, there is no reason why Coffman doesnt get out there on some (say five or six) passing downs and see if he can make some catches. Coats is an above average blocker with below average hands. He should have at least 2 touchdown catches so far. Coffman has been applauded at the college level for his soft hands. He may not be able to block yet, but there have been no reports that he has been dropping balls. Let the kid get out there or stick with Foschi who has been a great surprise so far.

by bengal fan from new york on Oct 16, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

All those guys are adequate blockers

I’m not saying we couldn’t keep Coats or Kelly, most teams have a blocking tight end and big play tight end.

by St. Esiason on Oct 16, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

it is fun to think about...

Coles is a good player though and he’s nice to have for depth. i would trade him only for another player, but that is extremely unlikely give our history and his value. we’d probably get slammed in cap penalties, wouldn’t you think?

by GrooveLeg on Oct 16, 2009 9:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

hes just having some bad games

give the guy a break hes human

by vottoholic on Oct 16, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just to clarify....

I’m not dogging on coles, im just offering up a scenario and thought it would be fun to talk about trades

CB85......Collaros for Heisman

by TennBengalfan on Oct 16, 2009 5:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If you notice,

that Coles was always considered a wr1 with the jets! I know that he should’ve been considered a wr2, but the Jets had nobody else but Coles to throw to. This is a big change for him just like the problem TJ is having trying to adapt to the wr1 in Seattle. It’s a little different for him and he will come around. Plus his down field blocking is great!!!!

by WHYUS!! on Oct 16, 2009 11:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree

Coles is an absolute monster on run blocking. He’s been consistently one of the best blocking WRs year in and year out. And I believe he will come around in the passing game as well. Though he’s had a tough time this year producing, defenses still have to respect him. I don’t think the Bengals make any trades before the deadline.

I also hear the Chargers are shopping Merriman. It will be interesting to see if he gets traded or not.

Though a front seven of Geathers, Odom(either can be rotated with M. Johnson), Peko(who is an every down DT),T. Johnson/Sims, Merriman, Maualuga, and Rivers sounds really nice, we’d probably have to give up a lot for that.

by Danimal, Destroyer of Worlds on Oct 17, 2009 10:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

plus

I’m not too sure how Merriman would fit into a 4-3.

by Danimal, Destroyer of Worlds on Oct 17, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The only things I really want right now

Are a dual threat TE, a killer safety, and 3rd corner.

by brandone on Oct 17, 2009 2:06 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs

I think the last two you mention we’re not “perfect” but we’re “good enough” at… but I would like to see some improvement at the first. If that comes from the guys already here, so much the better, but if an opportunity comes in a trade I’d take that too.

by FriarBob on Oct 18, 2009 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs