BFTB Answers Your Chargers Questions
Hey, Bengals fans. My name is John and I run Bolts From The Blue, SB Nation's community for Chargers fans.
Every week of the NFL season I've been posting a FanPost at the community of the Chargers' upcoming opponent to help answer any questions the fans might have going into the game. It's been a rousing success, both fun and educational, and I expect much of the same to happen here.
Usually I do my post on Tuesday. Mondays are meant for reflection from the previous week. However, immediately after the final whistle of both the games in Minnesota and Dallas yesterday, fans were already talking about this game. It is, essentially, a playoff game. That's why I'm pushing it up a day.
Both teams have battled injuries all year, and both would welcome the opportunity to have a bye week. Also, both teams have holes (Cincy has offensive issues, the Chargers have defensive issues) and need to enter the playoffs with some momentum if they want to make any noise.
This isn't anything new to you guys. You know this game is huge. Anything you don't already know about the Chargers, feel free to post in the comments and I'll make sure to respond ASAP.
Please do me two favors. One, keep the trash-talking to a minimum. I'm not a very nice person when I go into that mode and I'd prefer to be able to come back here should these teams face each other in the playoffs without having enemies or being banned. Two, Rec this FanPost so that it stays towards the top of the home page.
9 recs |
107 comments
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Comments
Thanks for joining us,
Correct me if i’m wrong, but didn’t the Chargers lose their big NT early in the season? How has the Rush Defense responded to the loss of said NT?
Also, I’m sure the Charger fans have a lot of confidence right now. Is there anything about this game that makes the collective fanbase nervous, or is their no doubt in your minds that the Bengals are going to be in over their heads next Sunday?
I think it was very smart of the Chargers to attain the taller receiving corps, it will be interesting to see how the Bengals CBs handle those guys.
Thanks again for dropping by.
3 yards and a pile of dust
Jamal Williams was pegged to be the starting NT, with Ryon Bingham as his backup. Bingham went on IR in the preseason, Jamal after Week 1. Unknown rookie Ogemdi Nwagbuo wound up becoming the starting NT, but now he is also on IR. The current NT is Ian Scott (a free agent who started for the Bears in the super bowl against the Colts), and who the heck knows who his backup is.
Here’s how the rush defense has responded:
21st in the league in rush yds per game
18th in the league in rush yds per carry
The rush defense seems to scare Charger fans every week. It’s really quite poor, except in goal line situations. However, the game plan all season seems to be for the offense to score points in a hurry to force the opponents to abandon the run early. Obviously, it has worked.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Dec 14, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
John the bolt koolaid drinker
We havent scored a Rushing TD by a Rb in six weeks so we dont have to worry about your goal line D.. I love what the Chargers do on offense its the opposite of what we do in the passing game( go deep). You also dont activate Wr’s who only tackle and catch punts and you seem to get the most out of your guys.. That being said your D is average at best and you havent faced two corners like ours all year.. should be the best D you have faced. You also have the “I could screw up a wet dream” matchup between Bratkowski and Norv both who can cost a team a game.. ,,should be a good one
Agreed
However, the 6 inch height difference between your corners and our WRs still makes me confident about hose match-ups.
Also, Norv is one of the better game-managers in the league. This is a team that doesn’t make mistakes and doesn’t give games away. They have the least, or close to the least, turnovers every year and always rank towards the bottom in penalty yardage against. If you want to beat the Chargers, you can’t depend on the coach or the team to beat themselves.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Dec 15, 2009 5:17 AM EST up reply actions
Mostly agreed, except the subject line.
I don’t know John personally, but I’ve been reading BFTB for a long time now and he’s not exactly a Kool-aid drinker. Hardly a naysayer, but how much doom and gloom can you ask for? The team’s 10-3 and it’s 68ยบ outside.
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the cheerleaders!
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Dec 15, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, and this team isn’t your big brother’s Norv team. This might be a droppable game for SD because they do sometimes blow it against good teams. But this team is very disciplined and is absolutely not prone to dumb mistakes.
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the cheerleaders!
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Dec 15, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
Wow, that’s a lot of guys on IR in one position. The Bengals offense this year has been all about ball control. Run, run, run more, pass only when in obvious passing situations and be quick to throw it away or dump off short, run. While most of us in the Bengal nation really hate seeing this and long for the days of Palmer hooking up with Chad for 200 yards a game, we can’t deny it has worked. The Bengals defense has been stellar, largely due to how much rest they get because the offense is staying out there for long drives more than anyone else in the league.
Our major concerns are the anemic passing game and low offensive point totals. When facing a team that can score on them, can the Bengals offense move the ball in a hurry? As well as the running game has chewed up yardage and time, it hasn’t produced much in the way of points.
I thought the Viking game would be a much easier matchup than the Charger game. Peterson hasn’t been doing much lately and the Bengals run defense is very stout. The Bengas had been good about scoring early, and the Vikings have Favre, plus they’re coming off a loss. Easy scenario to win, if you can get ahead early and contain AP, because if you do that Favre will toss the ball to you at least 4 or 5 times. The Bengals did pretty well at containing AP, but couldn’t score, therefore didn’t put Favre in a position to try to win it by himself.
The Charger game concerns me primarily because of your non-WR receivers. The Bengals CBs are great, but the safeties and linebackers have been terrible in coverage. LT and Gates can each catch 10 passes and I wouldn’t be surprised. Rivers is a smart QB and he has a pretty solid line protecting him, so I don’t see the Bengals defense scoring many points. All that means the Bengals offense will probably have to score at least 3 touchdowns, which seems extremely unlikely based on this year’s output.
While I agree....
I don’t think LT has 10 catches all season. Those throws to the RBs will be mostly to Tolbert, some to Sproles.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Dec 15, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
Short-yardage offenses
have a major problem against the Chargers, and it’s not immediately apparent. The Chargers’ D is very badly beat-up and is not at all good at defending against hammering RBs. The pass rush is ok and the downfield coverage is excellent, but the tackling is hot-and-cold, so some short passes go for long YAC.
But the punter is simply surreal, the QB almost never does anything dumb, the kicker is the most accurate in history (not exaggeration), and the goal-line defense is very good. So just about every time the opposing offense comes out, they either have to answer a score or put together a long drive. Frequently, good offenses will drive downfield, and score/FG/fail, a few times each game. But that’s just not enough.
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the cheerleaders!
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Dec 15, 2009 5:36 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd
Great summation
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Dec 15, 2009 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
One Question
Do you think Sproles will see some checkdowns? Because those could work against our D.
by Danimal, Destroyer of Worlds on Dec 14, 2009 1:12 PM EST reply actions
Yes
but Sproles should not be your only concern. On any given play, the Chargers are sending 5 receivers. It’s usually 2 WRs (Jackson, Floyd), 1 TE (Gates), and 2 RBs (Tolbert and LT/Sproles). None of them can really be covered by one person.
You’ll almost never see Rivers throwing to the check-down receiver, because as he makes his progressions he almost always finds somebody open or at least “open enough”. Don’t sleep on the fact that this is the tallest receiving corps in football (perhaps football history), so Philip also has the option of throwing a “jump ball” and either getting a catch or a pass interference call.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Dec 14, 2009 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
of all the penalties we do get
we actually haven’t had many PI calls this year. Hall and joseph are lockdown corners and have done well against taller receivers, if you don’t look at that texans game. gates and sproles are the scary ones though as we are horrible at covering both TEs and RBs out of the backfield.
Tolbert is probably the scariest receiving RB out of the backfield. Sproles gets screens called for him, but doesn’t run a lot of patterns. When Tolbert gets the ball is when you can see some big plays.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Dec 15, 2009 5:18 AM EST up reply actions
let me ask another one then
how are your RBs in comparison to Ray Rice, because we did well against him in the second baltimore game and i dare say that he’s the most dangerous RB out of the backfield in the NFL this year.
As runners? Our RBs are terrible. LT gets somewhere around 50-70 yards a game on 20 carries. There’s 10 carries mixed in with the other guys (Sproles, Tolbert, Hester) that usually equal about 15-20 yards.
However, as receivers out of the backfield Sproles and Tolbert are the best at their positions (Tolbert is a FB).
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Dec 15, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Turning the Tables
If you were gameplanning against the Chargers, what aspects would you attack on the offensive and defensive fronts?
This is our year!
Defense: Run the ball and play keep-away. Use the short-passing game and throw to your TEs. Don’t make mistakes, and take advantage of opportunities (score 7 when you get in the red zone).
Offense: I have no idea. Shut down the run, and play strong defense in the red zone (trade TDs for FGs).
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Dec 14, 2009 9:23 PM EST up reply actions
I am sure you meant the opposite:
…in the red zone “trade TDs for FGs.”
Charger fans would be very grateful if the Bengals are willing to offer us TDs for FGs when we get to the red zone. ;-)
The Charger run D stats have improved a ton in the past 8 weeks, but I think it is deceptive mainly due to the Chargers scoring early and getting quick leads. Good running teams can still eat up the yards and the clock on SD (e.g., Dallas, Miami). We miss Jamal Williams a lot. At the goal line where space is limited, our smaller quicker linemen and atheletic LBs can be stout as they have many times this year.
Chad vs Phillip. No holds bared Smack Off.
Obviously we have a flamboyant guy here that likes to talk. Opposing players all say it’s done in the name of fun and not mean spirited at all. Rivers’ has had some famous mouthy moments, some of them a little rough (Cutler). My question is what do Charger fans think of it? Most Bengals fans love all things Chad, some love his play but wish he would shut up, and of course a few are sick of it. All that being said, Chad does play WR in the NFL where it’s socially acceptable to be a primadonna. I can’t remember another franchise QB that exchanged verbal jabs with another team. For that matter I can’t remember a good quarterback that didn’t behave absolutley boring, calculated, and noncontroversial when the cameras were nearby. Don’t get me wrong, I think Rivers if a fine QB, I’m just curious if the fans like the fire or think he has a screw loose.
personally as a charger fan
I love Rivers. His teammates thrive off his passion, he does talk trash, but he doesn’t swear and its always about football not personally insulting people.
And i love a qb who is tough enough to get into a d-linemans face (so do his teammates). I remember Jared Allen (back when he was a chief) saying he loved going back and forth with Rivers.
He is a great guy off the field, great family man with strong religious morals who works hard and lives and breaths football.
I wouldnt want anyone else commanding my football team.
Nice to meet you! I mean, you kindov suck but my dad says you might be good some day. (Stan Marsh talking to Jay Cutler on South Park)
I agree with this
I’ve always been the type, when playing football with my friends, to trash talk. I felt it made the game more fun. If nobody said anything, the game got boring really fast. So I’m all for it. It’s just Philip having fun, similar to Chad.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Dec 15, 2009 5:20 AM EST up reply actions
I agree as well
Chad and Phillip are those guys that you hate if you’re a fan of their rival teams. Unlike the TO’s of the world though, they work hard to win and try every game to back up the talk. Some of it may be attention-seeking, but more than anything its passion. Chad, and I’m sure Rivers is the same in this regard, is time and time again one of the hardest workers on the team.
Another Charger fan agreeing
While I wouldn’t say that Rivers has Hachi Go’s sense of humor — or even Carson Palmer’s — I do think his “antics” are a bit misunderstood by the opposition. They see a petulant, bratty “John McEnroe” of a quarterback. We see a fired up guy who wants to win and have fun at the same time. Yes, I admit that sometimes I’d like to see Philip muzzle it a bit, but I wouldn’t know what to do with him if he was vanilla.
by Andy (allfield) on Dec 15, 2009 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
We don't care what they do
as long as they have bolts on their helmets
Probably
Although he didn’t practice last week, he was listed as Doubtful against the Cowboys and word was he was a game-time decision. That leads me to believe he’ll play this week.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Dec 15, 2009 5:21 AM EST up reply actions
Word today is yes
According to Turner’s press conf.
Congratulations
on an adult approach to talking football. I appreciate the Cincy fans who are serious and objective about their team. Highly enjoyable.
yes unlike Ravens and Steeler fans
we have a little sense
CB85......Collaros for Heisman
by TennBengalfan on Dec 15, 2009 3:47 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i respectfully disagree
i think raider fans and bronco fans are pretty classy for the most part.
its the chief fans, the absolute worse.
Nice to meet you! I mean, you kindov suck but my dad says you might be good some day. (Stan Marsh talking to Jay Cutler on South Park)
you could be right...
or maybe we’ve just got one really, seriously demented Bronco fan posting on the Charger site with about 15 handles…
we had one of those too
he acted like they owned us after they only won because of the fluke tipped pass.
I was reading the MHR game thread right before that happened
It was 1000 we sucks, Nolen sucks, Orten sucks, McD is an idiots, followed by about 50 Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!s.
Hard to believe any Broncos fan could talk smack after that one.
fans are fans
there are the faction of them for every team that just love talking smack.
i’m the first to admit i’m horrible to be around when the bengals lose, but i’m also the first to congratulate the other team no matter the outcome.
Deep shots
Watching the Chargers against the Cowboys, seemed like Rivers took a ton of shots deep. Is this something SD does most weeks? Should be interesting with Hall and Joseph the strength of Bengals D, although they are banged up at safety…
The gameplan changes from week to week. The deep shots were being taken because Dallas’ blitzes were ineffective (Cowboys players said after the game that Rivers knew every blitz that was coming) and because they were doubling up on Gates on every play. When teams decide to play 2-deep on every play, to prevent the big play, you’ll see a lot more 10-15 yard catches from Gates.
If the Bengals try to play one-on-one with Jackson or Floyd, without help over the top, you’ll see a ton of deep balls. Rivers is, without a doubt, the best long passer in the NFL today and it’s something he loves doing.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Dec 15, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
John
Dont get me wrong I like your Team a lot. But lets not make these guys out ot be the Air Coryell show just yet. Your win streak has been against some really bad teams and d’s. I think your running game is almost as bad as our passing game and they could both be achilles heals in the playoffs. It will be really interesting to see if you can throw on us deep. I think we might see a lot of plays geared to test Nelson who is going to have to really show up in a tough place to get his first start. I dont care how tall your Wr’s are Hall and Joesph are the two best tandem corners in the game.. period.. The middle of the field could be where we see a lot of Mr Gates and company though
Exactly my point. This offense is better than Air Coryell because there’s more weapons. If you can shut down VJ and Floyd downfield, you still have to deal with Gates (and Naanee, and Tolbert and Sproles) in the short passing game. I don’t disagree that the Chargers lack of a running game could be their achilles heel in the playoffs, but for this game I expect the air attack to stay at it’s current level.
The Chargers’ winning streak has included victories against the Broncos and Raiders (both teams that beat the Bengals), as well as the Giants, Eagles and Cowboys (who are all possible playoff teams).
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Dec 15, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
I'm with John here.
The Chargers offense on any given play is: 5 linemen, Rivers, VJax, Gates, and 3 of the following: Floyd Naanee, Tomlinson, Sproles, Hester, Tolbert, Manumaleuna, and a couple of guys you probably haven’t heard of. No matter who the opponent is, somewhere, somehow, there will be a shocking mismatch.
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the cheerleaders!
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Dec 15, 2009 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
Dear John
Better then, Winslow, Munice, Fouts, Jefferson and Joiner???.. Please send some of that good California stuff your smoking to the the Queen City. I dont know how old you are but if there not even close to being in that league yet. With todays Defensive rules they would have scored 80 a game
I believe your 8 game streak includes……
.. Oakland , Chief twice, Browns and the Giants D might be the worst of all of them.. None of these are the Bengals D I promise
Oakland’s D is good. I believe so anyways. Is there any doubt amongst Bengal fans?
Of the Bengals 9 wins….2 are against the Browns, 1 against the Lions and 1 was against the Bears. You could also argue that the Steelers were a very mediocre team this year and the Ravens were nothing special.
Jackson is better than Jefferson or Joiner. Gates is as good as Winslow. Rivers is better than Fouts. What the Air Coryell team had in talent, the Air Turner team has in talent and depth. Three (maybe four) RBs that are great receivers out of the backfield, Five receivers over 6’4" with soft hands and a QB that can do absolutely anything asked of him. Not to mention a better defense and much better special teams.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Dec 15, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
Old dog here...
I’ve lived long enough into my adult life to see both teams and the current Charger offense actually IS better in the vertical passing game than the Fout’s era teams. The earlier Chargers had Muncie running, when he wasn’t high. That team was better at the play action. But what John is saying is true. JJ was an amazing jumper for Fouts, the current team has TWO WR’s like that. Winslow was great, Gates is just as good and a better route runner, and he posts up better against LB’s and Safeties. We had any number of backs from year to year who would catch screens, but nothing like Sproles and Tolbert. Finally, LT can still run, not be dominant like he used to be, but when the O’line makes holes he’s effective.
The Fout’s era Chargers had a good D, not a great D. They had little depth and wore out near the end of every season. Watching those Chargers play I used to think, “who ever has the ball last is gonna win.” And often that was true.
This offense can finish a game…. like the 7+ min drive at the end of the Dallas game to score and go up by 10 with 2 min to play. This team does that effectively.
I agree with Bengal Boy
One reason it is fun to compare teams of different eras is you can’t prove the point.
Nonetheless, that’s what blogs are for!
IMO both teams had a lot of offensive talent, very good special teams and creative OC/HC’s. The current team may have better linebackers but DB’s may be a wash. The key differences are in the O and D lines where the Coryell team was probably superior. A big reason for this last conclusion is in part due to the many injuries the current team has suffered.
In any case, I think the current team is getting very close and success in the remaining games may make the difference.
Needless to say...
…it is next to impossible to compare eras. The Coryell Chargers were state-of-the-art, redefining the way passing offenses could and would be run. This team is much more workman-like — with stud athletes. I firmly believe that individually, this group of players is athletically better (or will prove to be better) than the Coryell Chargers (kind of a no-brainer statement.) But as far as a system goes, Coryell was a mad freakin’ scientist workin’ some crazy voodoo. And he had guys like Walsh and Gibbs and Zampese to mix the potion for him.
by Andy (allfield) on Dec 15, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd.
Air Coryell can never be compared to any of its derivatives. Gates can’t be compared to Winslow or Rivers to Fouts despite the fact that the young players are better than their predecessors. Not only haven’t they earned the HOF accolades (except LaDainian), but they didn’t rewrite the game. But I think Gates is the best receiving TE the Chargers have ever had given where he is in his career, which means that if he plays another five years at this level the two best ever will have both been Chargers (if the world ended tomorrow, not so much). And when Rivers retires he will be the new standard for Chargers QBs.
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the cheerleaders!
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Dec 15, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
another charger fan's two cents
I’ll stop short of saying this Offense is better, but this team does have more pure talent than the Air Coryell team had (as a child of the Air Coryell days, it pains me to admit that). These receivers are taller, faster, and stronger and Gates is Winslow all over again. The strength of this Charger team is its passing game. They play with the philosophy of “there are no shut-down corners.” Right or wrong, this team challenges every corner, this team challenges double teams (just because there are two defenders, doesn’t make them any taller), and this team runs the ball (not well, but often enough). It is interesting, during this streak, opponents regularly average 4.5+ yards per carry, but at the end of the game the Chargers often have more rushing attempts. Personnally though, I am hoping for a renenactment of the 1982 MNF game (50-34 with over 900yds passing between Fouts and Ken Anderson). Great discussion. Looking forward to a great game, and MAY THE CHARGERS NEVER AGAIN PLAY IN CINCINNATI IN JANUARY.
Well, that’s an interesting question. Let’s go position by position
LT – Marcus McNeill has been a stud all year and deserves to start at the Pro Bowl. He has just about shut down every pass-rusher he’s faced without much help.
LG – Kris Dielman is a former Pro Bowler, based mostly on his run blocking. This year his run blocking has been inconsistent and his pass blocking has been mediocre. He doesn’t give up a lot of sacks or anything, but you see him missing more assignments than most former Pro Bowlers.
C – Former Pro Bowler Nick Hardwick has played a half of football this season, the first half of week 1, before fracturing his ankle. The last few weeks have each started with hope that he’d play, and ended with him being inactive. I doubt he gets the start on Sunday, as Scott Mruczkowski has been very good as the fill-in, but I’m hopeful that he has a good week of practice.
RG – This spot has belonged to rookie Louis Vasquez all year. He missed a few games due to injury, but his performance on the field has proven that he’s the cornerstone to build the right side of the line around. He came from Texas Tech, so he’s still learning how to run-block, but he seems to have made huge strides due to his size, strength and strong work ethic.
RT – Jeromey Clary was having a fine season until a few weeks ago, when he broke his leg and went on IR. Brandyn Dombrowski, a rookie from SDSU, took his place but is essentially keeping the spot warm for former Eagles star Jon Runyan. All signs last week point to Runyan getting the start this week, but Dombro has been pretty good at least as a pass-blocker.
If the Bengals still had Odom, I’d be more worried. However, since our offensive line has given up very few sacks lately (2 sacks in the last 4 games) I’m fairly confident Rivers will spend most of Sunday’s game clean and upright.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Dec 15, 2009 5:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Fanene
Has quietly ammassed 6 sacks giving us 14 for Odom/Fanene. The team has gotten a lot of pressure, and that has led, in part to our corners being tied for the AFC in INT among corners. If we get pressure it will be hard to take shots down field and will tighten up the D over the middle.
Stop it John your entering the geek zone
I know some Bengals fans have come on here and asked you to break down the game like your some friken GM. You lost all credibilty when you compared Malcom Floyd and V Jackson to two of the greatest WRs to play. You are obviously way too young to really know football. Jackson was non exsistent for about 5 weeks and hasnt even had one great full year and Floyd wasnt even a starter. Jefferson and Joiner are hall of fame material for gods sake. Others might like your dime store breakdown but here is the real facts. Dont come on a Bengals board and talk about how we are going to get beat. Your a Blogger that must have started watching football in the early 90’s at best. Your D is soft like Bunny and is just what we needed. Give us a breakdown of your weather and the nice ass on the beach but please save offensive line biographys for the other powder blue kool aid drinkers
This furthers the conversation how?
I -and many others, including opposition bloggers- have John’s back in any Chargers-related analysis. You’re talking to the most knowledgeable Chargers blogger on the net. Period.
And don’t you think Chargers fans would be more well-versed on the current team and how it compares to the Coryell team? I don’t think expect you’re going to see any Chargers fans come here and condescendingly “school” you on Bengals history.
I have to laugh!
Talk about losing credibility… Jefferson played three years for the Chargers (albeit outstanding ones) before being traded to the Packers and floundering, thereby proving that he was more of a system WR and far from Hall of Fame caliber. I’ll give you a mulligan and allow you to replace the word “Jefferson” with “Chandler,” but it still doesn’t take into account what Jackson and Floyd may develop into. Who are any of us to draw conclusions on what they or their careers may amount to? But they certainly are better raw and pure athletes than Joiner, Jefferson, and/or Chandler ever were.
by Andy (allfield) on Dec 15, 2009 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
not defending him
but i doubt jackson or floyd are entering the hall of fame. they still have time to develop, but with the caliber of players at that position, it’s just really tough. i mean, would you really take either of their first 2 years of desean jackson?
John is right
John compared Jackson to the Air Coryell receivers (he didn’t say Floyd), and he’s right. Jackson is better. (I had season tickets in the Coryell days). Pure talent, he’s better. Jefferson had a few good years, not a Hall of Fame career. Joiner was never a dominant deep threat, but he was certainly steady for a really long time. Jackson’s perceived lack of production the last few games (before he broke out again against Dallas) was the direct result of the opposing defenses vowing not to let VJ beat them, and scheming to lock him down. This Chargers offense doesn’t have to force the issue and throw to VJ if there are better options available. Gates was unreal in those games. Dallas doubled Gates, and VJ’s number got called again.
At least some of the Bengals fans are more civil than the Ravens and Steelers fans.
Hoot and Andy
Below is the stupidist comment ever made and its by your boy John. Direct quote
“Jackson is better than Jefferson or Joiner”
And yes i should have mentioned Chandler over Jefferson( but John was better to watch)
However Joiner IS IN THE HALL OF FAME..V Jackson has had 2 YEARS only in his career that could be called solid. My god talk about premature ejaculation lets have him have a few more years before you say he in the league of a Hall of Famer!!!! I could list 50 WRs that have had two good years after 3 nothings like Jackson has had and then faded away. I am not saying it going to happen but these are commnets from a person that is lost in his own world
When you start breaking down O lineman like you are a GM its time to hang it up. I guarantee you this John isnt in his 30’s . Now pee standing up and take some harmless shots like a man.. ps your D is soft like Bunny ears
you do realize
he’s just giving his take on the lineman like one of us asked him to, right? that’s the whole point of this cross blogging.
Apparently I went to far by answering the question.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Dec 16, 2009 5:52 AM EST up reply actions
Sorry, man.
BengalBoy doesn’t get a lot of respect around here either.
"If it wasn't this, it'd be something else."
Jackson v Joiner = apples/oranges
Jackson now is better than Joiner ever was. But Joiner was pretty darn good for a very long time, which is why he’s in the HOF. What was it, 18 seasons? No, Jackson hasn’t done that and probably won’t. But who would I rather have going up to get a ball, Jackson or any Air Coryell WR? Jackson, no doubt.
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the cheerleaders!
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Dec 16, 2009 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
Please don't let BengalBoy paint a bad picture for Bengals fans
No disrespect, BengalBoy, but you’re out of line. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Chargers fans of course think they’re going to beat us and why should they not? They’re Chargers fans, we played like dog turds last week, it’s a road game for us, and the Chargers play UNBELIEVABLE football in December. If the Bengals somehow manage to pull away with a win it’s not going to come easy. Show some respect or you’ll lose the little bit you still have here.
by WhoDeyDerek on Dec 15, 2009 9:48 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
And I don’t want you all to think that we’re all a bunch of blind homers who think that, by simply stepping on the field, the Chargers will win. Some of us have some real and serious concerns about the state of our football team, from FO on down. I for one am confident in one thing and one thing only: it’s going to be a hard-fought and probably too-close-for-comfort game. I like the fact that the game is in San Diego so there SHOULD be an element of home field advantage, and I think our propensity and ability to pull out close games in the waning moments should come in handy (but if Kaeding has to hit anything from beyond 45 yards to win it, I will in fact die of a heart attack before the Bengals call timeout to ice him).
Other than that, I would not be surprised in the least if Benson runs for 150+, Palmer throws for 350+, and the Tiggers win 30-27.
by Andy (allfield) on Dec 16, 2009 2:21 AM EST up reply actions
Given that Bratkowski is our OC
I’d be highly surprised if Palmer throws for half of 350 yards.
by Danimal, Destroyer of Worlds on Dec 16, 2009 2:32 AM EST up reply actions
eesh.. when is the last time Palmer threw for 350 yards? How many times this year has even gotten 250? Those days are gone. At least they seem to be this season. And if Benson gets 150+ it’ll take at least 45 carries, but that isn’t outside the realm of possibility.
eesh.. when is the last time Palmer threw for 350 yards? How many times this year has even gotten 250? Those days are gone. At least they seem to be this season. And if Benson gets 150+ it’ll take at least 45 carries, but that isn’t outside the realm of possibility.This matchup is the scariest on the Bengals schedule, and has been all year. Not only for who they play, but also for where it’s played. The Bengals always suck on the west coast. They’ve NEVER won in Oakland, and even in 2007 when they were running hot at the end of the season, beating the snot out of the Ravens and Titans, they were pathetic in a loss in San Francisco.
eesh.. when is the last time Palmer threw for 350 yards? How many times this year has even gotten 250? Those days are gone. At least they seem to be this season. And if Benson gets 150+ it’ll take at least 45 carries, but that isn’t outside the realm of possibility.This matchup is the scariest on the Bengals schedule, and has been all year. Not only for who they play, but also for where it’s played. The Bengals always suck on the west coast. They’ve NEVER won in Oakland, and even in 2007 when they were running hot at the end of the season, beating the snot out of the Ravens and Titans, they were pathetic in a loss in San Francisco.I’m hoping for a Bengals win, but more than that I just hope it’s a good game.
who dey derek
Your an embaressment to Bengals fans and men .My god its light hearted jabs. If you cant take what little jabs were thrown then you need to grow a sack. Dont ever apologize for me defending the Benglas or taking a shot. There is a line where someone can support their team and give their opinon on what they think. I suggested it was crossed when you make insane commnets and backhanded comments that we have no chance and then go WAY into breaking down the game like your a GM..Its all in fun
I believe it is too
But on the internet, there is a lack of emotional context with what is typed, therefore making it hard for some readers to realize you’re just having fun and jawing the opposition’s fans up. And we’re all fans here, let’s try to get along with one another.
by Danimal, Destroyer of Worlds on Dec 16, 2009 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
I'm probably wasting my time here, but are you familiar with Ad Hominem attacks?
or are you about to call me an Ad Homonem?
I am familiar with the term "Ad Hominem"
but I wouldn’t put the latter past BB.
by Danimal, Destroyer of Worlds on Dec 16, 2009 12:49 AM EST up reply actions
Chill out Bengal Boy
You might think it’s all in fun, but so far everyone else who’s commenting on your posts on this thread thinks you’re being a jerk. Including other Bengals fans.
You are, in fact, being a jerk. The thread was nice and civil until you decided to piss on it.
Having said that, I am a Charger fan, I had season tickets to the Fouts era, I’ve shaken Charlie Joiners hand and received his autograph on a Jersey. He was a tough SOB when he played, and is doing a great job as a coach for the Charger receivers now. Even He has commented in the local paper about how VJ is better than he ever was, and has a chance to be a star if he keeps it up.
Charlie Joiner is in the HOF as you say. But he was a possession receiver in the mold of Wes Welker. VJ is a WR with the body type of T.O. and the leaping ability of JJ. He in fact, is a better receiver.
Perfect comparison
Wes Welker and 3rd down Charlie
by RTChargerfan on Dec 16, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
3rd down Charlie
He really was wasn’t he. Everyone in the stadium knew Fouts was going to throw it to him, and he got open anyway.
Kind of like what Rivers/Gates is turning into
Baritone
Your lost.. Wes Welker never sniffs the hall of fame. VJ has 3 shit years and two good ones … miles from the Hall of Fame.. If my harmless comments offened you then you need to start putting Days of our Lives and Racheal Ray on your Tivo if its not already on there…Chargers D soft like Bunny Ear!
vincent
was drafted as a project, he went to a small school and was not very refined at all.
the chargers knew that when they drafted him and developed him into one of the best receivers in the league.
besides it takes most receivers about 3 years until they reach their potential.
Nice to meet you! I mean, you kindov suck but my dad says you might be good some day. (Stan Marsh talking to Jay Cutler on South Park)
This
Also, please stop saying “soft like bunny ears”. It wasn’t funny the first time, it’s not funny the fourth time.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Dec 16, 2009 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
Heck, it took Charlie Joiner 5 or 6
He never had more than 730 yards receiving before coming to the Chargers. If only I was old enough to remember what team he was on before the Chargers… Oh, well. I’m sure there’s some ancient mariner on this site who will set me straight.
by Andy (allfield) on Dec 17, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
Andy
Until someone performs at a high level FOR A LONG TIME they are nothing more then a guy with potential..Some thick skulls with wishful thinking out on the west coast. Is Deshawn Jackson going to the hall of fame? How about Roddy White Whats next one more good year out of Miles Austin and he will be Jerry Rice
I feel you're missing the point somewhat.
No one is saying Vincent Jackson has had a better career than Joiner. The argument is that at this point in his career, he’s playing at a level above the WRs of the Air Coryell era. Whether or not they’re in the Hall of Fame as a result of their entire careers is irrelevant to the point that Jackson may well be more talented right now than they ever were.
And it’s a legitimate argument.
by gman87 on Dec 18, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Get over yourself little one...
Pretty much everyone on this board has called you out for crapping on a nice thread. I’m not “offended” by you. I’m bored by you.
You’re a silly little punk with a computer.
Go back to the kids table, and let the adults talk.
Womens room is to the left
My god I just defend the Bengals and make fun of some of your comments and you would think I shot someone. Listen to all you Diane Keatons grow a sack. As far as any “Bengals fans” that come on here and say I dont get any respect. Zjiff is a joke, my ONLY comments on this board have been how bad M Purify has been for us and how he should be replaced and others given a chance. I had to listen to many fools talk about how great this guy is and how our O was in good shape. Then reality set in and almost to the letter everything I predicted or hoped would happen did. Purify gets cut and there there are so many feet in peoples mouth on our board its comical. When your right and others are wrong they tend to get a a little upset. The people that takes these boards as forums that are so serious that you cant even throw a little jab at the opposing team are PATHETIC. I am in tears, if you look back at the little jabs they are fricken harmless football banter.. Baritone your a JOKE.. Win or lose i will be a back to tell you how stupid it is to call a guy Like V jackson better then a hall of famer.. When you get out of high school and V jackson is doing this well for another 5 years then i will agree with you.. I am off to the Patriots board so I can hear about how Wes Welker is going into the hall after two goods years and make fun of them as well
Lol @ Bengal Baby...
105 yards, 2 touchdowns for Vincent Jackson.
And I’m not the only one saying that VJ is better than Charlie Joiner. CHARLIE JOINER IS SAYING IT TOO YOU STUPID TROLL.
Suck on that Bengal Baby.
To the rest of the Bengal fans… a great game, I really enjoyed the input and the conversation on your board. You have a great team and we’ll see you again in the playoffs. The Bengals are a classy team.
It would appear you have only one idiot on your board. Just ignore him and eventually he’ll go away.
Baritone
When your Acne clears up and you are no longer the king of your Dungeons and Dragons club, you might see how stupid it is to declare a guy better then a hall of famer when he has had 2 years in his first five that have been decent. If he keeps it up for 5 more years then i will agree with you. He is having a good year…so is Vernon Davis ..i would love to see where Charlie Joiner says that he is better then him… ps trying to be tough guy on a blog is beyond pathetic..
Semi-Off Topic
Do you see Merriman being re-signed next year?
OK now back to the original topic.
Who do you think is a better one-two CB combo, Hall/Joseph, or Jammer/Cromartie?
by Danimal, Destroyer of Worlds on Dec 15, 2009 11:19 PM EST reply actions
Cause my personal opinion, no offense
While Jammer and Cro are good, I think at least this year Hall and Joseph have been better.
Next Question.
Who has dropped more INTs, Joseph or Cromartie?
by Danimal, Destroyer of Worlds on Dec 15, 2009 11:23 PM EST up reply actions
Cro hardly drops any, I think he’s dropped maybe one all season. Actually, what I like this year is that Antonio is more willing to knock a ball down whereas in the past he’d go for the pick and miss it.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Dec 16, 2009 6:00 AM EST up reply actions
I did notice that this year about Cro, too
He’s gotten better at not trying for the pick 6 every time and making the safer play.
Joseph, on the other hand, drops easy INTS sometimes. He’s dropped at least three that I’ve seen.
by Danimal, Destroyer of Worlds on Dec 16, 2009 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
However, also in that game...
Winfield dropped the easiest one I’ve seen all season, so it balances out.
For what it’s worth, before that draft I remember the Chargers were equally interested in Joseph and Cromartie. I think they took Cromartie partially because they could pay him less guaranteed (due to his injury history and lack of experience).
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Dec 16, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
and then came the FG return for a TD
and at that moment, i became a huge fan of cromartie. liked him ever since.
That was the one bright spot
in what had to be the worst game this team has played in the PR era.
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the cheerleaders!
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Dec 16, 2009 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
I can’t really say because I haven’t seen a ton of Bengals games this year.
Jammer and Cromartie have been perfect in man coverage, and pretty good in zone. From what you guys are saying, Hall/Joseph have been close to perfect in both. The one thing I will say for SD’s corners, similar to our WRs, they are bigger and stronger than most other CB tandems in the league. Also, nobody supports the run like Jammer.
I predict there will be no new CBA before free agency, which would make Merriman an RFA and have him returning to San Diego for one more year. The team will not sign him long-term though.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Dec 16, 2009 5:59 AM EST up reply actions
This could be a good debate
Both tandems are very comparable in terms of coverages, and Jammer is extremely physical and hits hard. I’d say our duo is a bit more physical, as Hall and Joseph can both hit really hard, and I’ve heard Cro is a liability as a tackler(which he shouldn’t be given his athleticism, size and speed).
No, I don’t think Merriman signs long term either if no CBA is reached.
In the event there is a CBA, I personally don’t see Merriman re-signing at all. But I don’t see Mike Brown making an effort to go after him, either if he isn’t re-signed.
by Danimal, Destroyer of Worlds on Dec 16, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
If there is a CBA, the Chargers might franchise him. Kindof depends how things play out with Marcus McNeill and Vincent Jackson.
Cro doesn’t like to tackle for the same reason Deion didn’t and Marvin Harrison fell to the ground all the time. He may be a poor tackler, but he’s a poor tackler who stays on the field and stays healthy and then dominates in coverage. He’s actually been a little better this season, and once I found out he was playing with a broken hip last year I understood the lack of tackling.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Dec 16, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
What’s up BFTB: I thought it was pretty funny that Shawn Merriman is counter-suing Tila Tequila for copyright infringement (or whatever it was).
What does the Charger fanbase think of that mess?
Can’t wait for the showdown. Have a great weekend.
3 yards and a pile of dust
I guess they're torn
I think Shawne got caught in the web of an attention whore who understands how to stay in the newspapers (or in this case, on TMZ). No charges were ever filed against him, and the SD Sherriff pretty much backed Shawne’s claim that the original event was the result of Shawne trying to keep Tila from driving drunk. Everything since is just her jibber-jabbering.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Dec 16, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
cheers J-obvious
i know that crap is annoying, but i had to laugh when i saw the counter-sue on the ESPN crawler a few days ago.
3 yards and a pile of dust
by Hudepohl Dey on Dec 16, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
Just wanted to say...
To all of the fans of the Bengals, hope you have a great weekend. My sincere condolences about your loss of Chris Henry.
To BengalBaby… I’ll be back on Monday to see if you’re man enough to post. I doubt it, but we’ll see.

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