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Lewis airing disappointment in Stacy Andrews; not paying $80 million for no Pro Bowls, a few draft picks, seems right

+ What's Marvin Lewis' point when airing his displeasure after Stacy Andrews' departure? However, we slightly disagree with Joe Reedy's assessment that "Andrews and Moran did give the Bengals their opportunity". In my opinion, I never really felt that Andrews wanted to remain -- and if there's a pinch of truth to what Marvin Lewis says, then Andrews kept every deal on the table until a better one came along. You can say that that the Bengals are notoriously cheap, and underpay their players, and there's mountains of truth behind that. However, I'm just not certain that's completely Cincinnati's fault, especially for a player that eventually signed to play with his brother -- which figured to be his plan all along.

+ Mike Florio rips the Bengals for touting their four compensatory picks, saying that the Bengals are being rewarded for being too cheap for not paying departing free agents.

For starters, the only reason that they have compensatory picks is because they choose not to pay the draft picks and veterans who have performed well for them, and likewise to spend limited amounts on other peoples’ free agents. Indeed, this year’s crop of four compensatory picks (a third-rounder, a sixth-rounder, and two in the seventh) comes from the fact that the Bengals lost via free agency in 2008 the following players: Landon Johnson, Bryan Robinson, Justin Smith, Alex Stepanovich, and Madieu Williams.

The Bengals replaced that five-man exodus by signing only Antwan Odom.

So, in this case, cheapness equals more draft picks.

Dave says that Florio swings and misses while WDR praises Florio, for calling out the Bengals.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so I'm not going to dissect that. Historically speaking, Florio and WDR are more justified in their points than not. Based only on 2008, I don't agree. First of all, if we signed Madieu Williams and Justin Smith to contracts that they signed with the Vikings and 49ers respectively, then the Bengals would have had to spend $78.75 million, with $33 million guaranteed -- both signed six-year contracts. I could be in the minority, but that's two-sack super-star Justin Smith and Madieu Williams, who was good, but hardly irreplaceable with durability concerns even in Cincinnati.

The question that I want answered is: How many total Pro Bowls were earned, in their career, between Williams and Smith? None. That's no Pro Bowl players for $78.75 million that we could have spent, but didn't, and received draft picks instead.

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good points

I never wanted us to resign Stacy Andrews or Justin Smith, and while I like Madieu i think the Vikings over payed for him big time. While there is no doubt about the bengals being cheap, in these particular cases I think they made the right calls in the long run by saving the money and getting the draft picks

by CincyMike56 on Mar 25, 2009 1:25 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't understand

When any other team lets a free agent go somewhere else to colect a bigger paycheck they are considered genious (Pittsburgh). But when Cincy doesn’t want to make Justin Smith one of the top paid D-ends in the league, people call them cheap. Let’s all be honest. Of all the Bengal FA’s that left to collect a huge payday somewhere else, how many were worth it? J.Smith-NO / M. Williams-NO / L.Johnson-NO (and just had to take a pay cut already). Listen, I love T.J. but the Bengals would have been idiots to pay 9 mil a year for a 32 year old possession receiver. He will be missed but everyone can agree that Seatle overpaid. When your team goes 4-11-1, there aren’t very many players on that roster that I would be handing record deals to. Let the money walk and build up young talent through the draft.

by smoormandiddy on Mar 25, 2009 1:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Historically speaking...

…I would say you would find less support for Florio than might be thought. Do the Bengals have a history of not paying players who perform, as he claims? The answer there would be, no. Chad (twice), Levi, Big Willie, Jeremi Johnson, Carson, Peko, and Geathers spring immediately to mind. And in years past they paid the likes of Brian Simmons and Corey Dillon. Even TJ got paid once, after not doing a whole hell of a lot early in his career. But you can’t pay everyone, so some loss of quality players is inevitable, which is true for all clubs.

As to what they spend on other teams’ free agents, well, they gave Odom $30 million last year, and Utecht $9 million, and basically $10 million guaranteed just this year to Coles. And I seem to recall the Bengals tossing wads of bills at guys like Thornton, James, and Hardy back in ‘03 with the usual free agency mixed results. Certainly they’re not the Redskins in free agency, but they’ve been far more active in the the Marvin era than they were in the 1990s.

Now, if you want to argue that they spend their money foolishly — franchising Stacy, giving $5 million a year to Peko, paying top dollar for an over-the-hill LB like Hardy, extending Willie and letting Steinbach walk, etc. — I’ll agree completely. They Bengals spend plenty. The real problem is they don’t know what the hell they’re doing.

by BeerRun on Mar 25, 2009 3:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Cheap?

how could we be cheap!!!! we have no cap room left!!! mikey is just trying to get the best deal. u would do the same thing in his spot

by cinbengal_85@yahoo.com on Mar 25, 2009 3:29 PM EDT reply actions  

NFL

You have to reallize that this isn’t MLB where the Yankees spend 10 time more than the Reds. Every NFL team has the same amount of money to spend. Letting mediocre players walk does not make you cheap.

by smoormandiddy on Mar 25, 2009 3:37 PM EDT reply actions  

I Disagree

J. Smith and S. Andrews never played all that well. In fact I would argue that Andrews played terrible last year. I absolutely can’t believe Philly paid him that. Williams was good but very replaceable.

by NGDOC on Mar 25, 2009 3:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Cheap

The Bengals are very cheap. they have and always will be. they always end up not paying to lkeep the good players and that sucks….we let steiny go justin smith. hell if i got something better than what they were offering i would leave to…you cant blame the players…

by deerguy on Mar 25, 2009 4:00 PM EDT reply actions  

??????

Mr. Kirkendall,
i’m starting to worry about the Naufahu Tahi situation…….should we be ready for the Vikings to swoop him back up at the last minute???? the signing of tahi was a clutch move, we need a FB badly. I’d hate to lose him, he’s a heck of a FB.

3 yards and a pile of dust

by Hudepohl Dey on Mar 25, 2009 4:03 PM EDT reply actions  

My guess.

Is that the longer it goes, the better our chances. I have no real firm reason for believing this, but the Vikes haven’t made the move yet, so that bodes well for us.

Blogger at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.

by Josh Kirkendall on Mar 25, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

thanks

‘preciate ya dude, i’ll be checking the web Friday at 5:00pm Eastern Std time……..CMON Tahi

3 yards and a pile of dust

by Hudepohl Dey on Mar 25, 2009 4:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Cheap, in this instance would more appropriately, stupid. Paying big money to the wrong guys, drafting the wrong guys in the first place, etc.

Where Mikey is accurately labeled cheap is in infrastructure and personnel. What? No indoor practice facility, which even some high school programs have? Check. A draft/talent evaluation team that can fit in a single sedan? Check plus. No cap consultant or, god forbid, a general manager? Checkmate.

Stacy Andrews was a project from the get-go, a track and field guy who kinda played football by default. Franchising him at all was stupid. Failing to get anything back from him via a trade was worse. As of now, I’m leaning towards Odom and Utecht, both, as stupid moves with money. Not trading Chad last year when the getting was good was real stupid. Holding on to him still is only slightly less stupid. Franchising Graham was stupid because you’re supposed to kick gingers not reward them.

by IgnatiusJReilly on Mar 25, 2009 9:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Florio

I have found Florio to be extremely anti-Bengals to the point of animosity. He is from West Virginia, a state whose demographics usually breaks down to a Steeler fan or Bengal fan. I suspect he is either a Steeler fan, or a former Bengals fan who finally broke. I also believe he is an unprofessional anlyst as shown by his mocking the Bengals to pick Andre SMith. a modicrum of research will show that while the Bengals have taken absurd risks on poor character guys, it has never ((to my knowledege) been in the first round. They picked Thurman, Dillon, and Ochocinco when they were values in the second; Henry in the thrid, Nicholson and Shirley in the 5th, but all of these players had the talent to go atleast one round earlier. SInce SMith does not have the talent to go earlier, his character does not make push his talent into a value pick; therefore, the Bengals will not select him.

The Bengals have always seemed to be less cheap in free agency than Indy, Pittsburgh and Baltimore, the difference is in evaluating talent prior to the draft or free agency. That is why the Bengals need a GM who can evaluate how talent will fit into the Benagls system. The Bengals draft talented players, as shown by the interest in their free agents, they just don’t fit our system.

by jim0ijk on Mar 26, 2009 6:10 PM EDT reply actions  

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