Open Thread: Soon on the clock -- who should we pick in the second round?
by Josh Kirkendall on Apr 4, 2009 3:04 PM EDT
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PrintWhen we picked up Andre Smith during the SB Nation Mock Draft, we figured we sealed a need by picking up a left tackle that would replace Levi Jones and anchor the line for several seasons. However, did that eliminate the need for our offensive line as a whole?
The question is now worth exploring as we'll be on the clock for our second round pick relatively soon. Pittsburgh picked up the first and only center so far, Alex Mack. All other centers are on the board. As for running back, Knowshon Moreno and Beanie Wells are gone. Do we go with a center? Donald Brown? Connor Barwin? All three are obviously different needs at different positions and we still have several picks to go before knowing exactly what's available to us -- which I'll update as they come.
What should we address in the second round?
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boring as it may be
Center!
Mack is the most technically proficient, maybe the best true center.
Unger is the biggest and most versatile, having made all Pac-10 as both C and T.
Wood is the nastiest and most durable but he’s also versatile.
Caldwell was actually the All-American of this bunch last year.
Luigs would still be a big improvement over what we have now and won the Remington Award year before last.
If we’re in love with size for our divisional foes, maybe we should give BYU’s 6-5", 330lb. Dallas Reynolds a try. He’s versatile and durable and huge.
If we pick up another second somewhere along the way, perhaps we could wait on Wood with #38 but Caldwell and Luigs are 3rd or 4th rounders.
Still, if our first two picks go Andre Smith with one of those first three guys above, I’ll be okay with that….mind you, I’m still gonna scream bloody murder if Chad isn’t traded.
center!!
Any of the three top centers.
It would be nice if we can get at least a 2nd round pick for #85 then we could address center and RB.
by HorstMuhlmannkicksa$$ on Apr 4, 2009 3:27 PM EDT reply actions
Krikendall DO NOT TAKE A CENTER. I repeat do NOT take a center.
Here is my big board of players in round number 2.
1.) Donald Brown
2.) Connor Barwin
3.) LeSean McCoy
Did James Laurinitis, Robert Ayers, Brandon Pettigrew, Sean Smith fall?
If so, add them onto the list.
Here is the reason for not taking a center.
3rd round possible center options.
-Johnathan Luigs
-Antoine Caldwell
-A.Q. Shipley
All 3 of those centers have are slightly graded below Eric Wood or Max Unger, simply because they are not a true C/G combo, they right now IMO are just Centers, with Caldwell possibly being able to play G effectively.
We need SAM/DE LB. It was said by Marvin Lewis that he needed to build his team around a player like Peter Boulaware as he did with the Ravens as defensive coordinator. Connor Barwin is that guy we could use on 1/2 down as a Rush OLB, and use him as a three point stance DE on 3rd down. Connor Barwin should be there.
Also, Donald Brown, my number 1 pick on the board. We need a durable guy to pair up with Benson. Let Brown/Johnson be the future in two years, and let Benson/Brown/Johnson work the magic right now. We want to become a power running team so they say? Well, take Donald Brown.
Everybody is going to say Center, but look at it from my stance. There are 3 quality centers, who are just as good as Eric Wood, ut dont have the option to play G. We need a rush DE/LB, we need another strong, good running back.
Take Brown/Barwin if there. Don’t take a center.
Laurinitis is gone.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Josh Kirkendall on Apr 4, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Big Board.
1.) Donald Brown RB/UConn
2.) Connor Barwin DE/LB/Cincinnati
3.) Robert Ayers DE/Tenn
4.) Sean Smith CB/S/Utah
5.) LeSean McCoy RB/Pitt
6.) Eric Wood C/G/Louisville
7.) Max Unger C/G/Oregon
8.) Paul Kruger DE/LB/Utah
9.) Larry English DE/LB/Northern Illinois
10.) Ron Brace DT/Boston College
Also, here is another center outlook, we are very high on Dan Santucci and Kyle Cook, we believe that one of them can and will be our starting center. Does that really make our need of Center worth it in the 2nd round, when you have pure talent in Brown/Barwin/Ayers/Smith/McCoy that are more talented than thier counter parts in round 3. But Wood/Unger do not have that much of a grade difference than Caldwell/Shipley/Luigs.
C is biggest need
that said, if they feel completely confident that at least one of Luigs/Caldwell/Shipley will still be there on their next pick, they should go for someone like Barwin or McCoy.
i think your a little off kirkendall
correct me if im wrong but Donald Brown is gone and Beanie Wells is still on the board
i thought Brown went to the eagles with like the 22nd pick
paul kruger may last until the 3rd also
by Joe Goodberry on Apr 4, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings?&start_row=51
they have kruger ranked 81st total and as the 9th best DE
by Joe Goodberry on Apr 4, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
i dunno
I think if Connor Barwin is there in the 2nd round he’s the pick.
Unger would be hard to pass on, agreed. I think this Barwin kid is spehshul.
"I've actually never had a drink before, tonight I might try it out. We'll see."
—Dodgers pitcher Clayton Kershaw, on turning 21
Given the amount of $$$s spent on DEs
Kruger is a luxury not a need.
Tbh if this draft is anything like the real one the desire to trade down grows – although I know this isn’t possible in the mock.
Regarding Brown -- he's still available
No, he didn’t get drafted. After the Cutler trade, the draft was reworked after the 18th pick. Eagles selected Maclin instead, since the Bears picked him originally leaving Brown back on the table.
What I say is truth, my friends. :)
Blogger at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
Nevermind.
You guys are right.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Josh Kirkendall on Apr 4, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Which player would be the biggest upgrade over what we have.
Barwin replacing Jeanty?
Brown or McCoy replacing / sharing time with Benson?
Unger / Wood replacing Santuci / Cook?
good point
but let me ask you this
Which is more of an upgrade in the 3rd round
Eric Wood or Antoinne caldwell over Cook and Santucci
or
Rashad Jennings or Javon Ringer over Cedric Benson
Thats why we should go Donald Brown in the 2nd and a Center in the 3rd
by Joe Goodberry on Apr 4, 2009 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Not so fast
A) Wood won’t be there in the 3rd and he’s a notch above Caldwell.
B) I’ll take Rashad Jennings over Donald Brown any day and twice on Sundays. Bigger, faster, way more upside. I would pass on Ringer, however,
Pick 38 has to go on a center. Fuck Cook, Santucci, Ghiaciuc, and Digger freaking Bujnoch. Yes, it would be nice to get a good back to share the load with Cedric in the backfield. But, as the Broncos have continuously proven, backs are a dime a dozen.
Now, if we manage to trade Chad away for another pick in the 20-40 range, I’d take a flyer on Connor Barwin because I think he’s got “it”. Also, don’t forget Pat White in round three.
by IgnatiusJReilly on Apr 4, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Cook, Santucci and Crummey all have a shot to be our center. Santucci was supposedly working really well underneath center untill he got hurt. Cook was going to be our guy untill he broke his foot, and our staff believes that he could be the next best center.
I know, I know
my brother’s old bike will do just fine but I want a shiny new one!
by IgnatiusJReilly on Apr 5, 2009 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Okay so I finally studied the SB mock. here is my re updated big board.
1.) Chris Beanie Wells (Proabbly Wont Be There)
2.) Michael Johnson DE/LB/Georgia Tech
3.) Connor Barwin DE/LB/Cincinnati
4.) Robert Ayers DE/LB/Tenn
5.) LeSean McCoy RB/Pittsburgh
6.) Darius Butler CB/UConn
7.) Eric Wood C/Louisville
8.) Max Unger C/G/Oregon
9.) Eben Britton T/Arizona
10.) Alphonso Smith CB/Wake Forrest
The drop off of DE/LB Hybrid talent falls after the top 3 on my board. You could get a Rashad Jennings and a Antoine Caldwell/A.Q. Shipley with the 3rd and Comp pick.
You'd really take a corner above a center?
I know that you argue that the training staff are “high” on Cook and Santucci but really, they were 7th rounders for a reason. They have never played an NFL snap and were beaten out of a starting job by Eric G.
I think you make some good points and god knows we need a back of 1st day caliber (not named irons, carter or perry…why does god hate the bengals?) but the O line is our achille’s heel at the moment. There’s no point trying to forge a power running game if you can’t run interiorly. Take a center in the second, a pass rushing LB in the 3rd and a nickel corner or RB with the comp pick. Thoughts?
Darius Butler is a middle first round grade. he is a very lengthy strong and fast corner. I believe you take him over the enter, because JJo can not stay healthy, he has not proved it. With our CB depth being Hall, JJo, Jones and Castille, you have to look at investing into a bonafide 3rd starting CB. He is the only CB I would take over a center.
He is the thing about the center, I have Eric Wood as a grade 86 center, and I have Johnathan Luigs as an 82, and they are seperated by 1 round. Antoine Caldwell is an 80 grade and A.Q. Shipley is a 78.
As you can see there is not much difference there between 1-2 rounds for a center. But if you look at Robert Ayers, Connor Barwin or Michael Johnson they all have first round grades, and after them the drop off is huge for a rush tweener. The grade is significant by all means. You take the best player with a higher grade with less depth rather than the best player in a depth class in which the grades are almost similiar.
Michael Johnson is an awesome physical specimen but he didn’t even dominate an abysmal ACC this year after having his coming out party in ‘07. Yes, he could be the next Jevon Kearse but so many things would have to come together for that to happen that the roll of the dice early in round two seems absurd. Not just because they went to the same school but I keep seeing Johnson as Eric Henderson and despite the potential that hasn’t translated to anything but an occupied roster spot. Honestly, Ayers doesn’t impress me much at all, so I’m not sure how you’re grading these guys. The main reason I would consider Barwin is that, in addition to that “it” factor", the guy could contribute at TE until we jettison some of that dough we have currently invested in our DEs. Now, if you have these guys penciled in as pure rush ends or outright OLBs, neither Johnson or Ayers has ever done that.
Darius Butler would be a nice guy to have as a backup but i think this high in the second round you’re looking for a starter.
by IgnatiusJReilly on Apr 5, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
My ranking:
1.) Max Unger C/G/Oregon
2.) Connor Barwin DE/LB/Cincinnati
3.) Robert Ayers DE/Tenn
4.) Paul Kruger DE/LB/Utah
5.) Eben Britton T/Arizona
6.) Eric Wood C/G/Louisville
7.) Alphonso Smith CB/Wake Forrest
8.) Darius Butler CB/UConn
9.) Larry English DE/LB/Northern Illinois
10.) Ron Brace DT/Boston College
After taking Smith
You almost have to go defense. I would really prefer you to grab Wood. I think he’d give us a good option at center OR guard (especially if we end up having to kick Stacy out to T to cover for Smith falling flat on his face). But we still need a playmaker in the D front seven. Either a DT who can help swamp the GCG combo in the middle so that the DEs are (usually) facing tackles one-on-one because the RB had to come up to chip on one of the DTs, or an OLB who can help with blitzes would be my preference.
A good backup for whenever JJo gets hurt again would be nice too, tho…
But Guichek didn’t beat them out at all, nz. He kept the job because both of them got injured at the most inopportune moments possible. Of course they could get hurt again, too… which again is why I want Wood. Even if he doesn’t start day one he’d almost certainly be ready soon enough if they did get injured again…
not sure how he'll do
separated from Raji, but Ron Brace is a big beats.
by IgnatiusJReilly on Apr 5, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
We should have taken Larry English at #6
Whoever you choose, make sure it holds real world implications for the Cincinnati Bengals. If you can accomplish this, then it’s worth a second of anyone’s time.
My Big Board
1. Donald Brown
2. Max Unger
3. LeSean McCoy
4. Robert Ayers
5. Connor Barwin
6. Alphonso Smith
7. Darius Butler
8. Eric Wood
Just checked to see who was gone… looks like your probably redrafting… but if not.
Alex Mack
Alphonso Smith
Chris Wells
Darrius Heyward Bey
Eben Britton
Connor Barwin
William Beatty
Robert Ayers
Darius Butler
Michael Johnson
if we go by that list
Alex Mack wins hands down.
by IgnatiusJReilly on Apr 6, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
after checking the re-draft on MTD
looks like Mack is gone, as well as beanie….
I’m thinking the choice has to be between Donald Brown and Conner Barwin.
What are everyone’s thoughts?
Trickle Down Effect
Would Rashad Jennings be available in the 3rd? If so, take Barwin. But, if taking Jennings in the 3rd takes away our chance at Fenuki Toupu, I’ll have to second guess all of it and take Brown.
We pick by 5pm Tuesday
Mack and Wells are gone.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Josh Kirkendall on Apr 7, 2009 12:25 AM EDT reply actions
Given the parameters
of this mock- with no trades and whatnot, the pick has to be Unger or Woods- even if conventional wisdom is saying Woods is a slight reach at 38. Unger will probably be the one, though.
by IgnatiusJReilly on Apr 7, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
OK guys. Pick one player, we'll tally it up and use that pick.
…and go!
Blogger at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Josh Kirkendall on Apr 7, 2009 11:39 AM EDT reply actions
Oh no Kirk :(
That means Center is going to be picked even though it is arugably the deepest position in this years draft..
:(
-Connor Barwin
Well...
I’ve been beating that drum all year, and we’re only going two rounds. If we went three, maybe we could come up with a way to draft a C in the third round.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Josh Kirkendall on Apr 7, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Brown
How much of an upgrade will these 2 rookie centers be over our 2 current guys? I guess we haven’t seen anyof them play on a pro level yet so it’s hard to tell. I do know we need another running back. A 2 back system is a must these days. If we want to be a run first team we need more than one guy to carry the load. If Benson goes down for even just a few games we’re in deep shart.
Wait?
Isn’t the list of who’s been taken so far? Or have there been other picks that haven’t been posted yet?
1. Detroit – Aaron Curry, OLB, Wake Forest
2. St. Louis – Jason Smith, OT, Baylor
3. Kansas City – Eugene Monroe, OT, Virginia
4. Seattle – Matt Stafford, QB, Georgia
5. Cleveland – Brian Orakpo, DE, Texas
6. Cincinnati – Andre Smith, OT, Alabama
7. Oakland – Michael Crabtree, WR, Texas Tech
8. Jacksonville – B.J. Raji, DT, Boston College
9. Green Bay – Everette Brown, DE, Florida State
10. San Francisco – Michael Oher, OT, Ole Miss
11. Buffalo – Aaron Maybin, DE, Penn State
12. Denver – Malcolm Jenkins, CB, Ohio State
13. Washington – Brian Cushing, OLB, USC
14. New Orleans – Clay Matthews, OLB, USC
15. Houston – Sean Smith, CB, Utah
16. San Diego – Rey Maualuga, MLB, USC
17. New York Jets – Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia
18. Denver – Clint Sintim, OLB, Virginia
19. Tampa Bay – Larry English, DE, Northern Illinois
20. Detroit – Peria Jerry, DT, Ole Miss
21. Philadelphia – Jeremy Maclin, WR, Missouri
22. Minnesota – Mark Sanchez, QB, USC
23. New England – Vontae Davis, CB, Illinois
24. Atlanta – James Laurinaitis, MLB, Ohio State
25. Miami – Darius Butler, CB, Connecticut
26. Baltimore – Hakeem Nicks, WR, North Carolina
27. Indianapolis – Evander Hood, DT, Missouri
28. Philadelphia – Donald Brown, RB, Connecticut
Yea
There’s been several picked that haven’t been published yet. Here’s an update.
29th: Giants – Darrius Heyward-Bey
30th: Titans – Tyson Jackson
31st: Cardinals – Beanie Wells
32nd: Steelers – Alex Mack
33nd: Lions – Duke Robinson
34th: Patriots – William Monroe
35th: Rams – Ron Brace
36th: Browns – Percey Harvin
37th: Seahawks – Eben Britton
Blogger at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Josh Kirkendall on Apr 7, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
im in with conner
I think he’s a high character guy and the guy is a flat out ballplayer. i remember seeing him playing for the Bearcats basketball team as a walkon freshman and getting significant minutes. Warrants mentioning.
Tank Johnson solidifies the DT.
that may change things to C, assuming Geathers and Odom are able to be counted upon.
"I've actually never had a drink before, tonight I might try it out. We'll see."
—Dodgers pitcher Clayton Kershaw, on turning 21
Our 2 top needs are now C,RB, Why would we take a SLB? and he will take a few seasons before he can even start!
I understand in the meantime he can help in a pinch at TE, and play some 3rd down pass rushing. but that will just stunt his growth at OLB, and thats where im sure Marvin Lewis would want to play him
"Our 2 top needs are now C,RB, Why would we take a SLB? and he will take a few seasons before he can even start!"
Because I’m feeling dangerous. And because there’s a big chance that the Bengals might have the mindset that Dan Santucci and/or Kyle Cook should be given their shots. In truth, I’m trying to go for accuracy, based on the facts. We’re still really short at LB and will have a huge surge of free agents heading into 2010 — I know it doesn’t matter for the here and now, but I would assume that’s how teams prepare for their draft.
Plus, most people had Connor on their list.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Josh Kirkendall on Apr 8, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
NFL Network
They just had a little piece about connor Barwin on Path to the Draft. Mike Mayock says that he likes alot of things about Barwin but he believes that because of his amazing workout numbers, the media has this guy a a near first round pick. But Mayock says he is a 3rd round talent with first round workout numbers, and a 5th round type of project. Because he says some team is going to take him and if they want production out of him right away, then they will put him at TE. If they are a good team and have time to wait then they will put him as a 3rd down pass rusher or pass rushing LB, which will take him a few seasons until he is contributing.
We are in no position to take a 2nd Round project!!!
Lets not be Homers, Please! Take it from a guy that dosnt live in the cincinnati area. I live outside of Buffalo and when UConn played Buffalo in the Bowl game this year, i was watching. And Donald Brown was a man amogst boys. He rushed for like 270 Yards!!! If you guys have watched him play before, than you know this is finally our future and franchise running back. Please Kirkendall make the right pick!
"And Donald Brown was a man amogst boys."
That’s fine. And if he was available, I probably would have taken him. However, he wasn’t. Philly picked him at 28th.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Josh Kirkendall on Apr 8, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
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