Ask a Raven
by Rexx on May 12, 2009 12:13 PM EDT
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PrintBefore you all go postal on me, this is actually a serious post. A Steelers fan did a similar thing on our site, Baltimore Beatdown, and I thought it might be interesting to do the same on the other teams in our division, the AFC North.
What I'm wondering, is that are there similarities between the Baltimore Ravens and Cincinnati Bengals that give the Bengals fans hope that they will return to the playoff bound team a few years ago, or are they in a true rebuilding mode? For the Ravens, they went from a playoff team in 2006 with a 13-3 record to the bottom of the barrel in 2007 at 5-11. All along, my frustration was that we had so many injuries in so many critical positions, that 2007 was an aberration and not the reality fo the future. That proved correct, when the Ravens stayed pretty healthy and returned to the playoffs, narrowly missing a chance at a Super Bowl with our third loss to the hated Steelers last year.
So then, were the injuries that the Bengals had to deal with the main reason they plummeted to new lows in 2008? Can they rebound in 2009 to a playoff contender? What changes have been made to confirm the way you feel? While no Bengals fan myself, I hate to admit it but you all had a great, A+ draft last month. When I heard that the Ravens traded up in the first round of last month's draft, I was praying that they would grab USC's Rey Maualuga, even though a LB was not high on their board. He is a beast and would have been the next great Ravens MLB under Ray Lewis' wing. Then when I saw you guys snatched him, I was devastated as now we will have to see him twice a year on the other side of the line of scrimmage. Despite his Combine issues and that disturbing shirtless video, Andre' Smith will be a great source of confidence on Palmer's blind side. Chase Coffman is also a pure receiving tight end, perhaps in the mold of a Dallas Clark.
All in all, I'm pretty sure you can leave the AFC North's basement to the Cleveland Browns, but how much higher can you go? Just interested in hearing your opinions and feel free to post a similar FanPost over at our site.
Peace.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors.
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Right now
I would say we are on the fence between it being a rebuilding year and being a playoff contender. It is really going to come down to the offensive line. If we cannot keep Carson upright, there is going to be problems. I don’t expect the running game to be explosive, but it should be dangerous enough to keep defenses more honest. And getting a true blocking FB back will be a big help for that. The defense should be improved, hopefully they can hang around the #12 ranking that they ended with last year, if not improve on it.
My prediction would be the Bengals should be able to contend for a playoff spot, but they will get edged out in the last few weeks.
It's still a good season if we go 2-14 and beat the Steelers twice.
Injuries last year were the main reason, but not the only reason
The offensive line was probably the worst in the NFL last year, injuries being a contributing factor. But, Eric “Turnstile” Ghiaciuc just plain blew goats. Palmer got hurt, everyone on defense got hurt, and until Benson there was no running game.
Envy our past......Fear our future
...all about the Q
Flacco was your answer last year. Palmer is our answer this year.
If you don't live like you wanna, you live like you shouldn't
Huge difference though
One is an up and coming QB and the other is a Pro Bowl veteran. You know what you’re getting there. If he can be protected he’ll find his receivers and the loss of TJ and addition of Coles shouldn’t miss a beat. If you can block and run,…you will score points. The defense is another issue, though.
Rexx
Defense is A OK
Defense will be top 5 in the league. Count on that.
If you don't live like you wanna, you live like you shouldn't
Baltimore, Pittsburgh, New England, Philadelphia, Washington, and New York (both), are all very solid and haven’t fallen off in the least; Minnesota, Tennessee, and Dallas can also be thrown in the mix.
I understand that Cincinnati finished 12th last year, but would you care to reveal which of those teams the Bengals will finish in front of?
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
Well, I’ll take a gander at it. I think he’s overdoing it. Top 10 yes, top 5 probably not, but we might squeak in if we stay healthy and just about everybody else doesn’t.
As for who we pass: Philadelphia likely, Washington with almost no doubt (Hayneworth is good but he can’t make up everything for a team the 32nd-ranked offense managed to beat — when that happens you know they aren’t really as good as they appear on paper), and Dallas very likely. And despite how incredibly good Rex Ryan is he didn’t really have that much to work with when he got to NY, so that’s a slight possibility at least. Tennessee is almost as mercurial as the NFC South. One year they are king of the hill the next year middle of the pack or worse. If they stay true to form they will probably get passed.
Beyond that, however, I’m not so sure. NYG will only get passed if their new coordinator stinks it up or the injury dragon takes out half their team. Probably the same story with Baltimore. Pittsburgh basically the same except they haven’t lost the DC.
Minnesota is a toss up. They’re pretty good but not as good as you think. Their offense will play a big role in how good their defense appears, and their schedule might give them a bit of a break too.
You didn’t think to account for NO or Carolina. As horrible as NO was last year they had plenty of pieces already and they’ve picked up more plus Williams. They’ve got a shot to make a major jump up the rankings. Carolina, as much as I detest them, has plenty of talent but with a new coordinator and a tough schedule they’re a total toss up right now.
You also didn’t account for Miami. I think they will fall off but they won’t fall as far as some think. I’m figuring a 6-10, 7-9 season but their D will be stronger than it appears at first glance.
Add it all up and I think we can slip into the top 10. Especially if our offense actually gives us a bit of help for a change. But top 5 is pushing it.
Let me tell you
New England: Old defense in rebuilding stage.
Baltimore: same as NE
Dallas: nothing going on there (terrible showing in last game of 08)
Minnesota: Jared Allen is only bright spot.
Giants: coaching change, not so sure about them.
If you don't live like you wanna, you live like you shouldn't
What? This is all wrong!
New England is a little old, but they’ve drafted some young, defensive talent recently (Mayo, Butler and others). They will probably be next year’s best team. Baltimore is old on defense? I’ve never heard that line before… People have been calling our defense old since 2001 and hoping that they would fall off. Defense is a tradition in Baltimore. That means that it’s bigger than the players. It’s the hard-nosed, tough mentality that keeps it going. Furthermore, we have many young stars (Ngata, Landry, Gooden, Foxworth, Washington…) and others in their prime (Reed and Suggs). The only “aging” players that we currently rely on are Lewis and Pryce. By the way, Lewis is only 33. That’s not very old.
What about Adrian Peterson and the Williams boys in Minnesota? Did the Giants have a coaching change? ummm… no.
You’re right about most of that, but yes the Giants did have a coaching change… they lost their DC to a head coaching gig and had to replace him.
well think a little harder before you react like a 10 year old girl
If you don't live like you wanna, you live like you shouldn't
....
I’m sorry if he’s offended that I think Cincinnati’s D is going to be better than the Raven’s D, but that’s my honest opinion. Their D is in rebuilding mode and even though ours is too, I see ours more solid, specially with our draft and off season signings.
If you don't live like you wanna, you live like you shouldn't
You obviously have no logic. I don’t feel like arguing about this. Anyone with half of a brain would disagree with almost everything that you’ve said here.
No Rex Ryan = No Top Ten Defense.
period.
by IgnatiusJReilly on May 14, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
They said the same exact thing
when Marvin Lewis lft, when Mike Nolan left nd now when Re Ryan left. Rebuilding mode? Why, because we lost Bart Scott!? Like when we lost Jamie Sharper? Edgerton Hartwell? Adalius Thomas? Now Bart Scott? The so-called Ray Lewis is still the bst MLB in the game, no matter how many steps he’s lost.
Rexx
What about Adrian Peterson?
We’re talking defense aren’t we? Are you retarded?
If you don't live like you wanna, you live like you shouldn't
I think Dallas D will be bad this year
No roy or jenkins and they have Wade as their DC. We will slide past them.
Top 5!?
Like your enthusiasm, but you can count on your Bengals finishing stronger than last year, but top five dense? Really, come on.
Rexx
ill be happy ending up at 12 again, throw in the 12th offense and we will have a solid season
by Joe Goodberry on May 13, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I was surprised to hear you were 12th!
Perhaps it was partly due to your offense not scoring a lot so opponents would focus on ball control rather than scoring once they had a lead. Chemistry is a big part of a team, so I’m not convinced the ’skins and Jets will jell just because they supposedly got good free agent pick ups. Same goes for you, with the rookie in the middle and Rivers not playing a ton so far.
Plus, playing us twice won’t help you, as our offense is flying high now! Whoo Whoo! (just kidding, although I hope not!).
Rexx
It is hard to win without your franchise QB
I am not insulting the ravens but Cincy has the most talent out of all the AFC north teams and Derrick Mason is running out of gas and Cincy will be able to cover him without breaking a sweat.
Thanks for the civil and interesting post
I won’t speak for everyone, just myself.
This is a year where we should be able to reclaim some dignity similar to our humble playoff year. That’s all I really hope for. If we go 8-8 I’d be happy. Anything beyond that is a bonus. So, yes, this is a big rebuilding year for many reasons.
I look at the 80’s Giants as a hope of what we can do this year or next year. Their D was top notch, with LT and company that kept them in every game and even managed to win a few that the offiense couldn’t do themselves. Our D is shaping up that way if Ray-Ray and crew live up to their potential. He is going to set a tone for the entire team I feel, and make his team more aggressive. Keith Rivers is a guy that needs that spark for sure.
However, if we end up having a young O line that gets a surprise vet Olineman or two before the start of the seaon, and also a CB woudl be nice aslo, then we will be potent on both sides of the ball and could upset the dreaded and evile steelers!
If Rivers gets his revenge
on Ward, I will join everyone in Baltimore AND Cincy in smiling!
Rexx
by Rexx on May 12, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Great post
Personally, I think this is a tweener year. They’ve got veterans that are among the NFL elite in guys like Palmer & CJ, but too many positions are sub-par for this to be a real playoff contention year. The draft was great, but I’m still worried about depth on the o-line. The defense played pretty well last year, against the really bad teams. Against good teams, not so much. That said, the offense was so horrendous that it’s amazing the defense wasn’t worst in the league with all the terrible situations they were put into.
I see the Bengals getting 8-9 wins, but I doubt that will be even close to good enough to make a playoff run. Maybe next year, if the young players from this draft and last years (Simpson, Caldwell, Rivers, Lynch, etc) step up, will be another 2005 but with a better ending.
Cincy will be the best team in Lewis's tenure... on paper
Barring injuries and locker room melt downs(Dallas).
you said it
WITHOUT SIGNIFICANT INJURIES, I´LL BET MY LIFE WE MAKE THE PLAYOFFS THIS YEAR.
If you don't live like you wanna, you live like you shouldn't
Here's one that's been touched on but not really addressed
For Rexx and any of the other Ravens folk who may stop by:
With the loss of your defensive mastermind, Rex Ryan and Bart Scott- in truth your best LB for the last sevral years despite the Ray Lewis imprimatur on the defense as a whole, with Ray himself having lost a step physically if not in terms of passion, and with what was essentially a patchwork(not counting Ed Reed obviously) secondary saved from really being tested by the ferocious pass rush, can this year’s model of the Ravens D continue to play at the same level we’re all used to?
Also, having seen first hand what happened to another defensive genius that stepped up to head coach- in Dick LeBeau here in Cin’ti, what do you think the prospects are for Ryan’s success at the helm of the Jets. Granted, what Rex has to work with going in is a whole different animal than what LeBeau inherited.
Oh, and one more, when we hired Marvin Lewis, he came in with the rep of being some defensive guru- those were the exact words bandied about at the time, “defensive guru”, was that your perception of him circa his Baltimore days?
by IgnatiusJReilly on May 14, 2009 7:08 PM EDT reply actions
Funny you say that.
We felt the same thing when Brian Billick came here from Minnesota as the “offensive guru!” You’re only as good as your players nd Ray Lewis has made a bunch of d-coordinators look pretty good. They all left, as did the guy on Ra’s left and we still stay as one of the top defenses in the NFL. Rebuilding, rag tag bunch? Something tells me that Terrell Suggs, Ed Reed, Haloti Ngata might disagree with that. We will hve two healthy starting CB’s with depth there as Samari Rolle and the Titan’s Chris Carr are now backups, instead f the other guys we sed to have to used when Chris McAlister and Rolle were injured or out the past tow years. So we might actaully be stronger on defense and you will get to meet the next great Ravens linebacker, Tavares Gooden, who is from the “U” and learning from under Ray’s shadow.
Rexx
OK, let's address them...
Pretty much everything that you said is the main-stream opinion and impression of the Ravens defense. Bart Scott was not our best linebacker. He wasn’t even close. Don’t get me wrong. Bart is a good linebacker, but he was a role player. He blew up the gaps, and Ray made the tackles. Bart was good for the Ravens because he was fast and wreckless, but it’s not a hard role to fill. The Ravens drafted Tavares Gooden last season in the third round. He’s from Miami like Ray, Ed and Willis. He has Bart’s build and is much, much faster. He was running down receivers in practice. He will easily fill Bart’s spot.
As far as our “patchwork” secondary is concerned, I totally agree. They were our only weakness on defense last season. However, they still managed lead the league in interceptions (mostly from Reed) and were 2nd in passing defense. Chuck Pagano, the Raven’s secondary coach, has done an excellent job. He is known around the league as one of the best, and was the coach who developed Nnamdi Asomugha in Oakland. Also, our secondary’s talent last season wasn’t bad. We just didn’t have any depth due to injuries. That’s why they were considered a “weakness” when they were leading the league. Now, they have Foxworth, Carr and Webb (our draft pick), and I really don’t see them as a weakness anymore. They led the league when they were “weak.” I can’t wait to see them flying around next season.
Finally, I think that Lewis is an average coach, but he was an EXCELLENT coordinator. I think that he is a genius, and much like Cam Cameron, he has a hard time managing a team as a head coach. Granted… he hasn’t performed as badly as Cameron, but you get my point. The fact is that a head coach needs to be a motivator. I’ve always thought that Lewis is a bad motivator, but he’s a fantastic play-caller. Genius nerd-coaches (like Cameron and Lewis) should be calling plays and playing chess.
I’ve always thought that Lewis is a bad motivator, but he’s a fantastic play-caller.
I agree.
He blew up the gaps, and Ray made the tackles.
That’s pretty much the way of Ray, isn’t it? He comes in at the end and gets his stats boosted. Sometimes he actually contributes, sometimes he’s just another guy on the pile, but his stat sheet looks great. Not to take away from his importance to the defense, a fiery motivator on the field and in the locker room is always a good thing, a necessary thing, but he’s not a particularly scary tackler anymore. I remember a couple years ago sitting in a hotel bar watching the Bengals and Ravens play: Rudi met Ray at the 3 or 4 and they stood each other up, then Rudi just manhandled Lewis back into the end zone.
All that said, I’d love for Marvin Lewis to get the Bengals front seven arranged like he had the Ravens back in the day. Big, beefy guys in the middle of the d-line, fast pass-rushing ends, outside linebackers that could rush or drop into coverage, and a quick sideline-to-sideline MLB that can take advantage of being in a situation where the line occupies the blockers and it’s one-on-one with the ballcarrier.
Ray's not a scary tackler?
Ask R. Mendenhall of the Steelers, K2, formerly of the Browns and who was that reserve FB that he took the helmet off of in the playoff game? They might disagree w/ that statement.
Rexx
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