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Know Thy Enemy - Game #1 Broncos


Without getting into any sort of Sun Tzu tripe, one of the things I like about SB nation is to be able to check out what fans are saying about their beloved team, and gain better insight.  It's kind of fun to see others drinking Kool Aid this time of year.  But the point here is to learn who we face and how or if we can beat the tar out of them and get off to a good start this season.

There's a LOT of turmoil in Denver.

Coach Shannahan.  Gone.

Jay Cutler.  Gone.

Brandon Marshall.  Gone?

They still have their beloved Champ Bailey though.  They build snow and ice sculptures of him all the time.

Star-divide

Now, lets get to what their fans are saying.  I'm going to throw quotes that are interesting, and site posts where they are at.  Example #1 is going to be from a first time poster over there at Mile High Report http://www.milehighreport.com/

This guy seems like a good homer but knows his team.

http://www.milehighreport.com/2009/7/4/937876/optimism-abounds-in-d-town

O-Line:  We have the best O-Line in the NFL.  Period.  Continuing from last year I expect dominance from our line and project that the emphasis will now focus more on a balanced run/pass scenario.  Our pass protection is awesome with young talent in Clady/Harris at the left and right tackle positions respectfully.  At guard I will give the nod to Hamilton but if his motor stalls like happened last year sporadically he will undoubtedly be pulled as our new coach is fearless and will play the best person always.  Kuper gets the other spot as he has developed nicely and may even get better with the new guard pulling run attack McDaniels brings from NE.  Of course that leaves us with Wiegmann at center which the resigning of made my day.  Lichtensteiger is an awesome back-up at both center and guard and provides us with an insurance policy if age catches up with Casey.  Adding our draftees of this year with those of last year and we have decent to solid depth for a line that is bordering on greatness.

 

D-Line- Now things start to get interesting.  First a little history, sort of, Denver has drafted for speed on defense for generations and now that sometimes fault may provide us with an opportunity.  Take Marcus Thomas for instance.  Three years ago he came in over weight by Shannahan standards and was asked to trim up and put on more muscle.  He has been increasingly more effective every season but now we switch to a 3-4 oh no.  What this means to me is now we have a slimmed down DT that has been trained to be faster.  Sounds like a pretty good 3-4 end doesn’t it.  I have heard he is going for the NT position and I do believe the probable heavy rotation at that spot will include him but as with all of our defensive players left on the line the prior regimes system may make them even better prospects at their new positions.  May I also point out that the 3-4 I put up shows us having close to 1000 pounds of angry players which  is what we put out before but with 4 players.  We are going big and fast.

 

Conclusion:

I see us in two ways.  If our coach is as smart as I hope we are about to begin a dominating campaign that will lead to at worst a playoff appearance this season.  I believe that the play-calling last year grew stale and predictable as the reason for it was not to win games but garner league attention with stats.  I believe that while Bates was innovative at times he is still young in his football I.Q.  Slowik is the worst D.C. EVER.  I cannot speak on his on his other coaching abilities as they seem to be focused more on offense in the first place(I believe he was a QB coach before he was our secondary coach then our DC?)  Anyway,  I think that last year’s aberrations have been nullified and the holdover players are better than there disorganized play last season.  I see potential in this team and every move made by McDaniels seems to have a purpose.  If he is as advertised we will be dominating this division now and for the foreseeable future.  On the other hand if what most of the so-called experts say is true then we just might be the new Detroit Lions/Oakland-L.A. Raiders.

 

So.  Lets think about these quotes.  DO the Broncos really have the best O line int he NFL?  IS their D line Big and Fast?  Or, as he says the so called experts think they are the new Detriot or LA?

Thoughts?

0 recs  |  Comment 22 comments

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It's gonna be fun...

seeing Robert Ayers (their number 1 pick) against our O-line. Also, it should be fun seeing our linebackers match up against Knowshon Moreno.

If you don't live like you wanna, you live like you shouldn't

by trotanoy on Jul 7, 2009 1:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

we cant lose to a rookie coach 2 years in a row on opening day

can we? i doubt it. the jungle will be loud that day

i think we kill them

by nadfflictar on Jul 7, 2009 2:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

nice point trotanoy

i think those match-ups will be very interesting. especially our linebackers and knowhson.

i want to see how carson does against the secondary too. if he puts on a show, his recovery may be legit

by Braveslax1012 on Jul 7, 2009 3:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The Denver DLine may the worst in the league

Not only do i fallow the Bengals with a passion, i can really name you at least 25-35 players on each team along with a rough scouting report on that player. So believe me their D-Line is not too good. Now i did hear that Ayers is going to play DE in the 3-4 so that may make it interesting. But they dont have a True NT, and are holding competition for the other DE spot.

Thier O-Line is Good though. Clady is one of the Best LTs in football. Ryan Harris is a guy i like. They may lack toughness on inside runs and power runs. But they Pass protect well and run their Zone blocking to perfection.

But overall, Kyle Orton is their QB, Marshall wants out, and the D is terrible. They have Champ, and Dawkins. And i like like their TEs. But they dont have the personel to run a 3-4 defense.

The Bengals are a better overall team, but the best team dosnt always win. But i like our chances

"Ghiaciuc's play was a distraction"

by firstPick on Jul 7, 2009 4:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

O-line: big edge Denver
receivers: big edge Cincinnati
running game: big edge Denver (due to zone blocking scheme managed expertly by the o-line, so pretty much any back can look very good)
QB: wash. Palmer has a much better arm, if he’s back to pre-injury form. Big if. Orton was the best QB the Bears have had in my lifetime (since 1974), but that’s not saying a lot. He’s smart, makes very few mistakes, but doesn’t have a big arm. If Palmer is completely healthy and back to form, fairly big edge Cincinnati. If he’s not, it’s even or maybe even an edge to Denver.
FB/TE: big edge Denver

Overall offense: slight edge Denver

D-line: slight edge Cincinnati. Denver’s line sucks, but so does ours.
Linebackers: slight edge Cincinnati. Neither team has a particularly good group, but the Bengals LBs have better upside/potential.
CBs: slight edge Denver. Bailey is one of the best, but CJ has made him look like a bumbling fool in the past. Hall and Joseph are pretty decent, but neither has remotely approached the level of domination Bailey is capable of.
Safeties: slight edge Cincinnati. Like the linebackers, neither team has a very good group.

Overall defense: slight edge Cincinnati

K: big edge Cincinnati
P: wash, neither team has an experienced punter, last I checked.
returners: big edge Denver
suicide squad: moderate edge Denver (Kilmer’s long gone. Herana-Daze Jones, the best kick coverage guy the Bengals have had since Kilmer, is now in Denver)

Overall special teams: slight edge Denver

Overall: slight edge Denver

Didn’t factor coaching in, would be hard to do with the Broncos rookie coach.

The Bengals chances depend on how well the o-line plays together and whether the defense holds up. I think the chances are fairly good, but don’t overlook Orton. He’s not much of a downgrade from Cutler, maybe even an upgrade. For all the fanfare, Cutler’s numbers are almost identical to Brian Griese’s numbers when he was the starter, only Cutler had a much better o-line and much weaker division rivals. Orton has a weak arm, but he’s very smart and very rarely makes mistakes.

by indesignkat on Jul 7, 2009 9:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

dude.. what are you talking about?

@indesignkat -1

next time just leave this one alone.. our D-line sucks? our linebackers suck? you are right about our O-line and Carson is definitely fragile, but I think most people would rather have an injured Carson over Orton in the best shape of his life.
The Broncos defense is down right awful.. they make our long ball coverage look like the pro bowl and their line has more holes than swiss cheese. mmm, cheese. It is a new year and our boys aren’t even in pads yet, but if we have any kind of offense this year and their defense stays around the same, we’d damn well better win this game. We do need to get things going right away..

by 80%OFTHETIMEIMRIGHTEVERYTIME on Jul 8, 2009 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You think our d-line and linebackers don’t suck? How many of those guys had at least 3 sacks last year? Answer: 0. Thornton had 3, but he’s gone. How did our run defense rank last year? 21st.

I’m not counting on instant quality output from rookies because only idiots count on instant quality output from rookies. Look at history, it’s rare for a player to step right in and be great right off the bat. Just based on the guys we have, there’s nothing to get excited about from the Bengals front seven.

by indesignkat on Jul 8, 2009 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that our D-Line and Linebackers aren’t heads and tails above Denver, but they are better. Yes, Cincy did finish 21st in rush defense, but we finished 10th in yards per rush (3.9). Denver on the other hand finished 27th in total rushing yards allowed and 31st in yards per rush (5.0), with only Detroit being worse in that category. The Bengals only gave up a lot of rush yards because opponents rushed against them 6th most in the league.

As far as a pass rush goes, you are absolutely right, we need to improve it a lot this year, but Rey, MJ and Rivers will help a lot in that category.

This is our year!

by Carsonorbust on Jul 8, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As far as a pass rush goes, you are absolutely right, we need to improve it a lot this year, but Rey, MJ and Rivers will help a lot in that category.

We can hope.

by indesignkat on Jul 8, 2009 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Orton Hears a Who?

Orton is the big elephant from that movie right? Or are you talking about the QB who played for the Bears?…Either way, if you’re talking about the football player or the elephant, I don’t know if you could put him in the same class as Cutler and Palmer. Granted, Orton (the football player) had a descent start to the season last year, but he tanked towards the end of last season (see games vs. GB, Min, NO and StL). If you’re talking about the Elephant, I don’t think that he can throw a football (due to the lack of opposable thumbs and arms). Palmer will perennialy get you 25 tds and 4000 yds, and Cutler proved last year that he’s a top 10 QB in this league. I don’t consider that an upgrade.

This is our year!

by Carsonorbust on Jul 8, 2009 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hadn’t thought of that….I might take the Elephant over Orton then…. Harder to tackle

This is our year!

by Carsonorbust on Jul 9, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Plus

Mike Brown would be grabbing any player willing to work for peanuts.

by UpStateMike on Jul 9, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

H-Orton hears a Who-Dey

Here’s an interesting read (from MHR) about McD, and Orton.

As any casual sports fan knows by now, Cutler was dealt to the Chicago Bears in exchange for Kyle Orton and three draft picks.

Orton has been named the starting quarterback by head coach Josh McDaniels, as expected, and will continue to compete for the job this offseason with free agent signee Chris Simms.

For the Broncos, Orton will be expected to run Josh McDaniels’ complex but effective offense that relies heavily on the pass. In his time with the New England Patriots, McDaniels was able to orchestrate the unquestioned best offense the NFL has ever seen in 2007, and followed up in 2008 by turning Matt Cassel into a $14 million man.

Bronco fans have good reason to believe he can have repeat success in Denver with Orton, especially with the talent he has around him.

Not only does the change of scenery and upgrade in arsenal help Orton, but the fifth year quarterback will be a free agent at the end of the 2009 season, and he does not want to be looking for a backup job when that time comes.

Here is a look at Orton’s 2008 statistics and a projection of his numbers with the Broncos:

2008 season: Comp Att Yds Cmp% YPA TD INT SACK RAT

                    272 465 2,972 58.5 6.39 18 12 27 79.6

2009 PROJ: 330 550 3,850 60.0 7.00 24 14 14 ~82.0

I fully expect Orton to have the best season of his career with the Broncos. In Chicago, he was not used properly, and the Bears relied far too much on the run to win games. In Denver, I fully believe he will throw around 30-35 passes per game and get every receiver involved.

I think it’s not wise to underestimate this new coach. However, he has a group of players who don’t know his style of complex offense and it may take them more time than preseason to get it down. The fact we play them first is a very good thing. It could mean some good picks and other turnovers for our hungry D that wants to prove they can compete.

by UpStateMike on Jul 8, 2009 7:20 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

regrets

UpState, nice play on words with the H-Orton hears a Who Dey! I can’t believe I didn’t think of that though, it was late, and I was tired, but it was just sitting right there for me to pick off of the lowest branch on the whole word play tree!

This is our year!

by Carsonorbust on Jul 8, 2009 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

RUN RUN RUN

Denver was downright awful against the Run last year. Are inexperienced O-Line has an opportunity to get comfortable together if we serve up a steady dose of Benson. (same for Week 2 in Green Bay)

I don’t care if McDaniels is bringing a Belichekian 3-4 Defense to Denver. Shanahan has been drafting/stocking up 4-3 players for years. Jarvis Moss and Robert Ayers are D-Ends for a 4-3, that can’t play LB.

The Bengals need to exploit Denver’s fragile Front-7 early and often with a power ground attack.

Rivers and Maualuga will smash Knowshon’s face in.

Nice idea with the Fanpost UpStateMike.

3 yards and a pile of dust

by Hudepohl Dey on Jul 8, 2009 8:45 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

off topic

im driving through pittsburgh right now. it sucks haha

"Ghiaciuc's play was a distraction"

by firstPick on Jul 8, 2009 9:26 AM EDT via mobile reply actions   0 recs

Denvers 2009 team

I can see Denver winning 3-6 games this year. Denver fans have to realize that switching from a 4-3 to a 3-4 is a major overhaul. I gaurante there defense sucks again this year. Dick Lebeau came in here as head coach and tried to switch to a 3-4 and drafted R.Wilson and some pretty good linebackers in B.Simmons and T.Spikes to play in this system. It never materialized because they didn’t have the defensive linemen upfront to tie up the offensive lineman. Drafting Ayers is a first step but he is a defensive end. Who is gonna be the big nose tackle to tie up the linemen and the other defensive end spot. You guys have tiny defensive ends like Dummerville and he will be forced to play linebacker wich will probably be better for him. But you are going to see gapping holes in the running game due to players not trusting one another to stay in there spots and people will freelance out of position wich will give up big plays. Until about 3 years in this system this defense will not be good. Bailey is over the hill and is not what he once was. Dawkins is a stud but with his age is begining to have a lot of injuries. LB D.J Williams is solid but he is no Mobley. On offense QB K.Orton is Decent. He put up some strong numbers the last 8 games last year in a bad offense and looked to be coming into his own and the broncos are not short on any runningbacks, Wide receivers they are a little short on talent overall. The offensive line is not bad but right tackle is a question to me. Tight ends are in good shape also. The defense will be a problem again this year for Denver and manage ment seems to be lost in what direction they are going in. I think hireing McDaniels was a mistake and it just set the organization back a few years. Bad decisions were made the second he arrived and bringing in Jordan, Buckhalter, Walker and already having Young, Hall, Torian, Hills why in the hell did they draft a RB K.Moreno. They had a lot of others needs that were ignored like LB, WR, QB. They even passed on Maualugu in the second round to take a cornerback A.Smith. Decisions don’t make sense. Good luck in the coming season. Bengals 24 Broncos 10.

by POGO94 on Jul 8, 2009 1:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Broncos May have a better Defense than last year

While scanning Mile High Stadium, one post that stuck out was about the Denver Safety Group.

http://www.milehighreport.com/2009/7/19/954599/inside-the-broncos-roster-the

Inside the Broncos’ Roster: The Strong Safeties
 by Sayre111589 on Jul 19, 2009 5:37 PM EDT 7 comments, 7 new

 

As it was explained in my previous article about the free safeties, the Broncos’ group of safeties as a whole just may have been the worst in team history.

There was not an ounce of passion, poor tackling, and a complete lack of effort on the part of Denver’s safety group in 2008.

The unit head coach Josh McDaniels has put together for 2009 seems to be the polar opposite of that, and may be the deepest group of safeties on paper that the Broncos have had in a very, very long while.

That depth appears to be most prevalent at the strong safety position, where the Broncos made their biggest splash in the free agent signing period by signing future Hall of Fame selection Brian Dawkins from the Philadelphia Eagles.

Dawkins joins a Broncos team that has had a storied history of successful safeties including Steve Atwater, Dennis Smith, and John Lynch.

One of the most decorated safeties in NFL history, the 13 year veteran has played in seven Pro Bowls, which is fourth most among any player at his position. He has also been selected four times by the Associated Press as a first team All-Pro.

He has started 182 games in his career, and has played in 183 overall including 18 post-season contests which are both Philadelphia Eagles’ records.

Over his career, Dawkins has recorded 898 tackles, 153 passes defensed, 34 interceptions, 33 fumbles forced, and 21 sacks.

Last year, he completed one of the most prosperous seasons statistically that he has ever had, finishing with 75 tackles, six fumbles forced, three sacks, and an interception.

Sure, Dawkins is not the “speedster” he once was, but he is undoubtedly an upgrade over Marquand Manuel at the strong safety position for the Broncos.



I don’t know what the impact of this trade for a great vet will be in regard to Game #1, but it seems noteworthy that they have Champ and Dawkins, older and slower yes, but unquestionabally very savvy safeties that can teach their young hires about the position.

by UpStateMike on Jul 20, 2009 10:11 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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