The Defense Still has Big Holes
We're all excited about our "D" and I get it, because last year was the first time since I can remember that we finished ranked in the top half of the league. We were twelfth in overall defense, which has to be taken as a positive, no matter how shriveled and pessimistic your soul has become after years of rooting for the Orange and Black. However, being a fantasy guy, I also know my stats, and I would be remiss to point out that Cincy's "D" still has some very noticeable holes on Defense that are concerning.
First, there's the fact that despite being twelfth in overall yards allowed per game, we only finished 15th is passing defense and 21st in rush defense. So we can't jump to the conclusion that just because of our overall finish that the Bengals were a top third defense in the league last year. We finished 19th in terms of overall points given up (ultimately the only stat that matters). By that measure, we didn't even crack the top half of the NFL.
Given that, here's a breakdown of Cincy's Defensive stats last year.
Defensive Productivity
Sacks: 17 - 30th in the league - tied with the Browns (that's humiliating)
Interceptions: 12 - 21st in the league - tied with multiple teams
Touchdowns allowed: 43 - 24th in the league
Pass Defense
Yards allowed per game: 205.4 - 15th in the league
20+ yard pass plays allowed: 33 - 2nd Best in the league
40+ yard pass plays allowed: 7 - 13th in the league
Yards per pass play: 6.7 - 10th in the league
Rush Defense
Yards allowed per game: 120.1 - 21st in the league
20+ yard rushes: 9 - Tied for 9th in the league with the Ravens
Yards per rush: 3.9 - 10th in the league
Rush TD's allowed: 15 - 20th in the league
Here's what I want to highlight out of all this stuff. First, our pass rush was almost non-existent last year. Second, our pass defense was better than advertised. Third, despite out poor total rush yards, teams we were still in the top third of the league in yards per rush.
In light of this, I'm curious what you think our biggest holes are on defense, and if you think we've addressed those problems effectively in the off-season.
*Stats Courtesy of nfl.com
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Having Rivers back and Rey-Rey in there this year is an instant upgrade to our linebacking core. More over, Tank Johnson and Michael Johnson will be huge for penetrating opposing backfields. Pat Sims is gonna be huge with another year under his belt as well as Peko. Joseph hopefully will be healthy enough to start all games, and once again, Hall has yet another year under his belt which should give him plenty more savvy from experience. Not counting our safety depth and Geathers and Odom being much better this year, our defense renewed and upgraded tremendously from last year.
If you don't live like you wanna, you live like you shouldn't
Not that I hope you’re wrong, but I can’t get behind this kind of optimism. The guys we had last year will be better, and the rookies are instant upgrades. That’s just foolishness. Every team has guys returning with more experience, and every team has hotshot rookies. That doesn’t make the Bengals special.
d-line: I like Peko, but he needs to be a LOT more consistent, especially considering the huge contract he got. Between Tank & Sims, someone needs to step up and be the huge run stopper the Bengals haven’t had since..? Geathers needs to prove the 10 sacks he had a few years ago wasn’t a fluke. Odom hasn’t shown much of anything as a Bengal, which obviously needs to change.
linebackers: Rivers coming back should help, but honestly he wasn’t exactly a major force on the defense before he got hurt. He was pretty good, but for a top 10 pick you hope we haven’t seen the tip of the iceberg yet. I have high hopes for Rey, but we don’t know anything about him until he plays in a few games. Dhani is pretty solid, but hardly among the top MLBs in the league.
corners: Hall and Joseph have been fairly good, but inconsistent. Joseph swatted away a lot of passes his rookie year, but it’d be nice to see him catch a few. He seemed to have a real knack for putting himself in the perfect position for picks, then drop them. I’d be ok with him not getting a lot of picks as long as he can consistently swat passes away. Hall also needs to be more consistent, but it’s hard to knock his effort so far considering the pass rush the Bengals haven’t had.
safeties: Ndukwe is coming along nicely, hopefully he keeps getting better. White hasn’t impressed me. Roy Williams is a misplaced linebacker, but in certain situations that’s not a bad thing.
all in all the Bengals have a young defense with lots of potential. Whether that translates into a decent unit remains to be seen. Padding their stats in meaningless games against nobody opponents in the last few weeks of the year last season doesn’t put them in the upper echelon. It’s a great counterpoint to the pathetic last few weeks of the 2005 season when they just gave games away, but lets see some real game results before we start crowing about their ranking.
Correct me if I'm wrong
but you just listed a bunch of players, ranked them as fairly good to good, but don’t think that we’re going to be good? I have my own doubts, but you said it yourself, that this group has some solid potential.
Padding their stats in meaningless games against nobody opponents in the last few weeks of the year last season doesn’t put them in the upper echelon
To a point, I have to take issue with that statement because all teams play some good teams and some bad teams in a season, so everybody’s stats get padded when they play the bad teams. I thought we had a ridiculously tough schedule last year until the last three games of the season. The teams we played last year had the following records
Steelers – 12 4 (had to play them twice) 7
Ravens – 11 – 5 (who doesn’t want to play the ravens twice every season?)
Tennesee – 13 -3
Indianapolis – 12 – 4
Giants – 12 -4
Eagles – 9 – 6
Coyboys – 9
Texans – 8 – 8
Jets 9 – 7
Redskins – 8 – 8
That’s 75% of our games competing against teams who are contending for playoff spots or better. We were due for a couple of easy games at the end of the season. Truthfully, I was pretty proud that they didn’t throw in the towels and didn’t give up.
Who dey baby!
This is our year!
a group of players that are ‘fairly good to good’ do not excel in the NFL. Would you describe the players on the Steelers defense as ‘fairly good to good’? That’s who we’re competing with.
As for the schedule.. let me put it this way:
Against the Jaguars and Eagles I was proud of the Bengals defense. In those two games they played extremely well, especially considering the sad state of the offense at that point. To be able to hold opponents of that caliber in check for 9 quarters as they did is very impressive.
Against the Browns and Chiefs, two of the strong competitors for worst team in the league except Detroit title, in weeks 16 and 17 after all involved were out of the running and purely playing for pride and seeing what they had on the bench, the Bengals D played hard and was dominant. That’s a little more relevant than saying “our D looked great in that 3rd preseason game” but not much.
In a few other games (against the Redskins, the Giants, one of the Baltimore games, one of the Browns games) the defense was purely mediocre. Not great, not embarrassingly bad.
In the rest it was pretty ugly. 24 points to the Titans, 31 to the Cowboys, 26 to the Jets (after what the Bengals had done to Favre in their last couple matches…), 38 to the Steelers, 35 to the Texans, 27 to the Steelers, 34 to the Ravens, 35 to the Colts.
4 good showings, 4 mediocre, and 8 embarrassments is not something to beat your chest about. Yeah there’s potential, and sparks that may indicate something good to come this year, but a lot of the posters here make it sound like the Bengals defense was really good last year. Aside from the two games in the middle and the two meaningless games in the end, the Bengals were about as bad or worse than usual. Let’s hope they do better this year.
Would you describe the players on the Steelers defense as ‘fairly good to good’?
Actually, by and large I would. Most of them aren’t really that great. There are a few exceptions of course, Polamalu for example and probably a few others, but many of the rest look better at first glance than they really are because of their exceptionally good DC. Put all of them on the Bengals in 2006 under Bresnahan and half of them wouldn’t even make HIS pathetic team. And those who did wouldn’t have managed to perform as well as they have in Pittsburgh.
Fortunately we now seem to have at least an adequate DC instead of a joke. So now we actually have a bit of a chance. If he can improve even further along with the personnel, then we have more than “a bit” of a chance. How much more, of course, remains to be seen.
You're forgetting the most important point of all indesignkat....
Our offense last year sucked. Seeing how our offense is going to be MUCH better this year at least with the fact that Palmer finally looks healthy, our defense should improve a lot. I like the fact that the players are really buying into Zimmer’s mentality. Barring any injuries, we should improve on both sides of the ball.
If you don't live like you wanna, you live like you shouldn't
More Thoughts
I think it’s all going to come down to what Geathers and Odom do. The D-tackles seem as strong as I can ever recall. The LB’s seem very formiddable. Safeties look pretty deep. And though I like the Corners, its arguable that they aren’t very intimidating. That said, if the D-Ends can can manage to apply some fricken pressure (for the love of God), then the Corners won’t seem so vulnerable on deep routes and double moves (Hall).
The optimistic view would lead us to believe that the depth this team has at Tackle should help.
The pessemistic view would lead us to believe in the status quo.
Regardless, doesn’t it all come down to Geathers, Odom and perhaps M.Johnson?
- Let’s not count on blitz schemes to apply the sole presence of pressure. At some point, you need your high priced Ends to earn their pay checks.
by JohnCockToastin on Aug 2, 2009 4:52 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
we have had the upside of youth for almost 20 years..
which goes hand in hand with our ‘potential’ .. all I can say is our potential youth better win some football games this year.
by 80%OFTHETIMEIMRIGHTEVERYTIME on Aug 2, 2009 5:11 PM EDT reply actions
Two you missed...
3rd downs: attempted 218, made 93, 42.7% success vs. the D, 24th in the league. We were ahead of NE though. Bengals 24th in penalty yards too. D was great on pass and rush but only on 1st and 2nd down.
I can't believe I'm asking this
But where exactly are those stats found? I know I had them bookmarked at one point, but I can’t seem to find a site with them now. Same thing with the 20 and 40 yard pass play one, for some reason I can’t seem to find it
by bengalsneedagm on Aug 2, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
haha, I think I missed more than two
but those are some pretty interesting stats as well. I really wonder why they would be worse on 3rd downs. Maybe after being on the field for 75% of the game (a stat that I just made up) they were wearing down. Who knows, maybe they just need some fresh blood.
This is our year!
The biggest help to our defense
is a good offense. If we have an offense that can keep the ball, make first downs, and put points on the board, then the defense will be better. The Bengal’s offense last year could barely move the ball, with too many 3 and outs, and it often lost the battle of field position. If the Bengals can run the ball, keep Carson healthy, and put more than 17 points on the board, they should take a lot of the preasure off the defense.
by DCBengalFan on Aug 2, 2009 6:32 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
There are holes
but its still pretty good. We are going to do better this year. The 2 Gems of the NFL (The draft and free agency) really can revamp a team in one year
Carlos Guillen, the Latino Nick Punto
cautious optimism
You make a lot of good points that one shouldn’t be too optimistic about our defense. However, the second half of the season our defense clearly showed improvement and we did go 4-3-1 without Palmer and had held opponents to less than 20 pts a game during that stretch. We also did this without Keith Rivers and with JJ out for some of that stretch as well.
Where I see the most improvement is we have across the board depth that I haven’t seen in awhile. We have playing time battles going on between emerging youngsters and experienced veterans on the d-line at linebacker and in the backfield. Normally “position battles” for the Bengals are between guys who probably shouldn’t be on NFL rosters to begin with.
And I agree with the above, if the Bengals offense is able to hold onto the ball and convert some 3rd downs, this will make our defense much better.
The last 8 games of the season were pretty mixed. We gave up 19 to Jacksonville, 13 to Philly, 27 to Pit, 34 to Baltimore, 35 to Indy and then 13, 0 and 6 to the Skins, the Browns and the Chiefs respectively. We have to do better against our division rivals and we have to do better against the top tier offenses like Indy. I was proud how we handled the Skins, and the Eagles but the Browns and the Chiefs were both teams that were falling apart last year.
I am optimistic though. I think our returning players are going to mix well with the new ones and I think we’ll be able to do some things defensively that we weren’t able to do last year. We’ll especially be improved at D-End with Odom, MJ and Tank hopefully being able to put some pressure on opposing QB’s. I’d also like us to be more aggressive in mixing up blitz packages with our linebackers. We struggled against teams that had some throwing capacity (Houston and Indy being the most notable), and in order to do well against passing teams, you have to get to the QB.
This is our year!
The biggest hole in the 2008 defense ……… was the anemic offense. The D would have killed for a 50/50 split in Time of Possession.
3 yards and a pile of dust
Oh when the Saints
A capable offense will certainly help, but it’s not a solution. Just ask the Saints.
This is our year!
And the Broncos
…and anybody who was on the 2005 Bengals. Remember, without all those high-flying takeaways, the defense that year was pretty average.
by TheWalrus1971 on Aug 3, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
where DID all our INTS go?
by 80%OFTHETIMEIMRIGHTEVERYTIME on Aug 3, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
2005 was a fluke. You normally don’t get INTs like that without a pass rush, which the Bengals haven’t had.
It really was a circus..
by 80%OFTHETIMEIMRIGHTEVERYTIME on Aug 4, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Time to catch their wind...
Maybe if we had an offensive game plan that didn’t seem to center around running between the tackles (guards even…more often than not), gaining next to no ground and then relying on a conversion to keep from going 3 and out it would keep the D off of the field long enough to do a stellar job with our personnel we have on hand. How much scrutiny can be brought on these guys when we can’t run the ball and control the clock on the offensive side of the ball?
It really can all be traced back to inconsistency on the O-Line. Somebody remind me why we let Steinbach go in order to keep Levi and Willie?
Keeping Levi was obviously a huge mistake… but only after the fact. At the time nobody expected him to get injured like that, and before then it was still the wrong move, but it wasn’t such an OBVIOUSLY wrong move. Steinbach would have been a better choice, but it wasn’t truly obvious at the time.
But keeping Willie wasn’t a mistake at all, it was letting him go last year that was the mistake. I mean, did you watch how utterly horrid Andrews was last year? Good riddance to him, I don’t care how screwed up our line depth is as a result. I mean, can you imagine what would have happened had Brown had the sense before last year to franchise Stacy, negotiate for about two weeks, and when they couldn’t reach a deal trade him instead? The guy signed his tender fast enough that they could probably have done it and we’d have gotten an extra first rounder (one who might have signed in a reasonable time-frame to boot) out of it if we were lucky or at least another 2nd rounder. Maybe we could have ended up with that high-rated center everybody wanted after all. Or maybe a second tackle option. Plus last year we’d have had something other than a O-line that couldn’t block a wet paper bag, at least. We might still well have failed to crack six wins, especially if Palmer still got hurt because butterfingers Perry couldn’t pick up a blitzer to save his own life much less Palmer’s arm or nose or… but at least we’d have been a tiny bit less horrid early on in the season. Who knows, maybe, just maybe, that would have let us be 1-7 going in the JAX game instead.
Oh well.
To add to that...
Even though I think he is no longer a quality LT, if Levi ends up in the AFC North playing against us twice a year I’ jumping off the purple people bridge.

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