Report: Andre Smith isn't likely returning for another week or two.
by Kirkendall on Sep 16, 2009 9:08 PM EDT
in Injury
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The offensive line didn't get the validation it had hoped for, largely being blamed for the team's lack of production against the Denver Broncos. Specifically, Anthony Collins was singled out after allowing two quarterback sacks; both of which killed respective drives. Nor was it apparent that the Bengals rushing offense was all that effective when the team only called seven rushing plays in the second half (though we could lay off Collins a bit on that front). Later that night, questions of Andre Smith's return intensified (return? When has he been here?). That wait could take us into (at least) October, writes Joe Reedy:
Smith probably won’t be on the practice field for another week or two, but is comfortable with the progress he is making.
“I’m leaving it up to Coach Lewis and the staff (about when I’ll be back on the field),” Smith said. “It’s going great to get the full breakdown of the playbook and watching all the film.
“Everything happens for a reason and I have to take it for what it is. Let it be a bump on the road and not the end of the road.”
We like his spirit, but not his chances. Even if he does return to the field, he'll likely need some time to get into game shape. One has to wonder, coming to camp as overweight as he was, that he'll have to work with the team's training crew to get back into shape. And we're not just talking about working out in the gym; we're talking conditioning drills that prepares guys for football games. If you put a gun to our heads and asked us to guess on his return, we'd totally do this awesome wrist breaking move and retake the situation (big ups, Jack Bauer). After that, we'd tell you that we don't see Smith starting for this team until after the November 1st bye week. And I hope it's soon so we can actually have new pictures of Smith to post with these stories.
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Roll Call
Anyone who spouted off that Collins is a good tackle and we don’t need Andre Smith, please raise your hand and accept your dunce cap.
by bodacio on Sep 16, 2009 9:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
that was me
i was completely wrong
If you don't live like you wanna, you live like you shouldn't
by trotanoy on Sep 17, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Though I thought he was going to be good based on his great play at LT last year
If you don't live like you wanna, you live like you shouldn't
by trotanoy on Sep 17, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll eat crow
Though I still think Collins is better off at LT and his body of work last season shows this.
Also, it would be just to point out Andre Smith has yet to prove he is better than Eric Ghiacic in an NFL game.
by Cedric Benson Boat Party on Sep 17, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, it’s one game, but god was he terrible in that game. gotta face that.
by Raging Clue on Sep 17, 2009 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i said it
and i believe it. i’ve said it a million times, smith will not be an immovable wall. he will give up sacks and i’m willing to bet he gives up multiple in a few games.
that being said, collins looked like he wasn’t even trying on a few of those plays and i didn’t like that.
i still think he will be ok.
by brandone on Sep 16, 2009 9:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The wonderful options we have
Then I guess we’re relegated to someone giving up multiple sacks a game, whether it’s Collins or Smith?
I absolutely hated the Andre Smith pick and still do, but there’s a good reason Collins was a 4th round pick. Better reason to believe Smith won’t be an absolute doormat.
by bodacio on Sep 17, 2009 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, it was that he came out a year early. Not that he lacked talent or potential.
No we don’t need a dunce cap. Marvin does for trying to turn an extremely talented LT into something he’s obviously not so good at (a RT).
by FriarBob on Sep 17, 2009 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s all speculative. Generally, if a player is “extremely talented”, as you suggest, he won’t last until the 4th. Good tackles=at a premium.
Again, this isn’t about Marvin. I’m giving anyone who thought he was a better RT than Andre Smith a chance to admit they were wrong(probably)…as will I if this team wins more than 6 games. I’ll expect an appropriate flogging.
by bodacio on Sep 17, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and i’ll have the biggest whip i can find ready once the team gets win #7.
by Raging Clue on Sep 17, 2009 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never said he was. Nor did anybody else. Most people just didn’t want Smith because of his red flags. I said that we didn’t need to draft a 1st round tackle at all, and I will still stand by that. I will stand by that if we go 0-16. Because there was another option. There were a HUNDRED other options. I wanted AC to stay at LT and us to draft a RT in the 2nd round or later.
You say talented tackles don’t last that long? Sorry, but you are quite wrong there. LT who come out after their senior year usually don’t last that long, but that’s as far as you can go. Look at this data that I posted in another comment thread:
Oh and furthermore… Evans and Bushrod are both former 4th rounders, Nicks and Goodwin are both former 5th rounders, Stinchcomb is a former 2nd rounder… and the backups, Streif is a 7th rounder, Leckley was a 6th rounder, Nesbit was a former UDFA. The only first rounder on that entire line is Jamaal Brown.
That’s a breakdown of the NO line, talking about how their line does a very good job protecting Drew in contrast to what Carson has dealt with to date this season. Your tackles in that list are Brown, Stinchcomb, Bushrod, Strief, and Nicks can swing out in a pinch. And while they aren’t exactly the best line in the universe they are quite good both individually and as a unit.
Now it is very rare for a LT like AC to last to the 4th round and then come in as a rookie and kick butt. Obviously quite a few other teams screwed the pooch on talent evaluation there. But to say that talented tackles cannot be found in later rounds is flat ludicrous.
by FriarBob on Sep 18, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh and btw, the most disliked player on that OL? That would be Brown. The first rounder. And he’s not even playing right now due to injury.
by FriarBob on Sep 18, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh and if the NO line isn’t proof enough for you, lets look at the Giants line, which few would refuse to say is excellent. There isn’t a single first rounder on that line. Their starting tackles? Deihl was a 5th rounder and he’s the LEFT tackle. McKenzie was a 3rd rounder.
Or maybe the Titans line. They’re also very good. Once again not a single first rounder on that line. Roos at LT was a 2nd rounder, Stewart at RT was a 4th.
And for counterpoint lets look at the Carolina line, which should be great by your standards. Two first rounder tackles and a 2nd round center. Last week they sucked it up BAD. They gave up five sacks, two of the better RBs in the league rushed for 37 and 35 yards on 14 and 11 attempts respectively.
Can I rest my case now?
Drafting Smith was a HUGE mistake. We should have taken him in the second round if he was still available (as many red flags as he had he might have been available in the fourth round) if we really wanted him that badly or picked somebody else entirely. And there was ZERO need to draft a tackle in round 1 at all. Great lines are not determined by the draft round of their tackles.
by FriarBob on Sep 18, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s kind of funny that you assumed I was going to bat for Andre Smith when I said nothing of the sort. My point was, as is always the case, Bengals fans(looking through their orange and black colored lenses), assume that what they have is good enough. From the looks of it, you just had a huge argument with yourself. You fabricated points that I never made and spent about too much time coming up with counterpoints. Can you rest your case now? Please….forever.
by bodacio on Sep 19, 2009 3:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I fabricated points you never made? Really?
…but there’s a good reason Collins was a 4th round pick….
by bodacio on Sep 17, 2009 12:36 AM EDT
…Generally, if a player is "extremely talented", as you suggest, he won’t last until the 4th.
by bodacio on Sep 17, 2009 3:25 PM EDT
You said talented tackles don’t last until the 4th round and there was a reason that Collins was drafted in the 4th round. If that’s not saying that A) AC’s not really that talented and B) a good line has to be fill with players drafted in the first (and/or second) round, then you really need to work on not saying what you don’t mean.
All I did was rip those assertions to shreds. Whether they were the intent of your post or not they were still assertions you made, and they were false. If that’s an “argument with myself” then I really need to get a new dictionary.
And even if you don’t care about my points, they’re still valid points that others now have a chance to read.
by FriarBob on Sep 20, 2009 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doormat
Yea, I think given Smith’s size, he would be more of a door hill than a mat.
by The Dealio on Sep 17, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did too.
Based on his work in 2008, I had no reason to believe otherwise. He did well.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Kirkendall on Sep 16, 2009 9:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You said we don't need Andre Smith?
But you insisted we draft him. Doesn’t make sense if you were so high on Collins.
by bodacio on Sep 17, 2009 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I find it amusing...
that Smith’s agent is being toasted for the contract Keels got for his client. So why the holdout, dude ? And nice job with those “conditioning” clauses which should at least motivate Smith to get in and to stay in shape. Look, don’t kid yourself. We need this guy on our offensive line and to produce at a level worthy of the #6 pick in the draft.
by laibach on Sep 16, 2009 9:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good News?
I’m wondering. How’s Andre’s foot? Is he still wearing a boot? How much does he weigh? Has he been doing any conditioning work? Seems like these things are all beyond the ken of the beat writers or Hobson. Geesh! Anyway, Andre will be a welcome presence in the OL mix, and hopefully sooner than Nov. 1. Still, I can only shake my head at people wanting to write off Collins after one game as RT. Please. The guy didn’t suddenly forget how to play football. He was pretty good last season. Sure, he needs to step it up, but I assume he knows it, the team knows it and his ’mates know it. Carson also needs to step it up.
by virginiastripes on Sep 16, 2009 10:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
When Kim Bauer lost her virginity,
Jack Bauer found it and put it back. :)
by A Pragmatic Bengals Fan on Sep 17, 2009 12:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
When he becomes available...
…he should be used primarily on running plays. He was a monster run-blocker at Bama.
by IFChris on Sep 17, 2009 1:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i agree.
he has the size and upside… isn’t LT harder to play than RT? don’t LTs face better pass rush and SAMs more often than RTs? if that’s the case, i have no reason to think Smith won’t make a nice transition into a RT role. like you said, he’s already a great run-blocker… i’m still a fan of his and i think he can be a difference maker once he gets healthy. (let’s hope he can stay healthy)
by GrooveLeg on Sep 17, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Collins
If Collins had waited another year before comming out he would have been a top 15 pick. He is young, has little experience and is in a new position. As he learns to play RT while Andre is out he will be a very valuable backup with experience on both sides. When Andre comes back Whit can go over to guard and Collins can go to LT. IMO Collins will be very good. He has everything it takes except experience. I promise you the Steelers would love to have him as well as several other teams. Collins is not the problem – he will be a very good pro by mid season. We need t take a longer term view with him. He will be fine. Oh God! I sound like Marvin!!
" My enemy said "Love your enemy". I obeyed and loved myself." Gibran
by JUNGLEJOHN on Sep 17, 2009 9:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i agree with this too.
i think collins is really talented. he started every game at KU in ’06 at RT, and was honorable mention all big 12 (not WAC, not Mountain West, not ACC, not Big Ten… Big 12… as a sophomore…). in ’07, he was a first team All-American at LT. only had 2 penalties all year. we stole him in the draft.
he played a pretty solid LT tackle last year—IIRC, he had an all-pro game against dwight freeney. maybe he can make a transition to LG if Andre becomes the starting RT. it will be tough on him to learn 2 positions in the same year, but think about that line down the road.
Whit – Collins – Cook – Williams – Smith
by GrooveLeg on Sep 17, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is what I was hoping for the whole time. Collins is a LT… not a RT.
by kirby28 on Sep 17, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like this line if Livings is hurt for a while
or putting Smith at LG for short term to ease him into the game. Scouting pundits said he could be an all pro guard right away when he came out. Heck, they did it with Whit, but he ended up at guard for a few seasons.
by Cedric Benson Boat Party on Sep 17, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
After next year
Collins-Whit-Cook/Luigs-Shirely-Smith
by featherman on Sep 17, 2009 2:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That might actually be a pretty good line. Hmm… interesting idea.
by FriarBob on Sep 17, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Shirley takes to RG in the NFL the way he took to DT, we have a surefire Pro-Bowler on our hands. Can you say the new “Hogs”?
by bodacio on Sep 17, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure I'm ready to let Williams go just yet
I was thinking all along (like most everyone else) that after this year we plug in a replacement for Bobbie. But right now, I am thinking this line will welcome the continuity and leadership next year. Plus, as far as I can tell, his level of play is still good. I would like to see them sign Williams to a 2-year deal after this year is over. He might go for it.
by California Bengal Fan on Sep 17, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure either. But on the other hand, if Shirley is any good he should play and he might really help out. And we could still hold onto Williams as veteran leadership from the backup slot.
by FriarBob on Sep 18, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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