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Is There A Divide Growing Between Players and Coaches?

CINCINNATI, OH - OCTOBER 10:  Quarterback Carson Palmer #9 of the Cincinnati Bengals gets set to throw from the pocket against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers at Paul Brown Stadium on October 10, 2010 in Cincinnati, Ohio.  (Photo by Jamie Sabau/Getty Images)

Through five games Carson Palmer is on pace for 4,118 yards and 22 touchdowns. Palmer has already doubled last year's 300-yard performances and he's two games away from having as many games with multiple touchdowns as he did last year. During the loss to the Cleveland Browns, Palmer averaged 10.3 yard/pass, which is the first time he averaged more than 10 yards/pass since averaging 10.8 yards/pass against the New York Jets on October 21, 2007.

ESPN's Trent Dilfer analyzed Palmer during Monday Night Countdown and said that Palmer isn't checking down, trying to squeeze passes into impossible windows, using the interception on third-and-13 that led to Palmer's second interception. Jermaine Gresham was wide open, about six yards short of the first down on a hook route, while Terrell Owens' route passed the first down marker, breaking towards the middle of the field on an in-route.

When asked about that play, Carson Palmer admitted to the mistake -- though you have to wonder if his comments isn't more tongue-in-cheek regarding the actual play call.

“I don’t think we’d run that play yet. As I said before, we were just a little bit off all game. When you’re playing teams in this league, those little mistakes can turn into big ones. That turned into an interception which ended up tying the game. We’re not going to beat people playing like that.”

During Marvin Lewis' press conference on Monday, the head coach responded to Palmer's comments, saying:

“I don’t know that everything was a little bit off. I think we just have to go beyond, and that’s the important part. We have 11 parts on each play, and not all of them are going to be perfect, but we ought to be able to overcome it and make it a positive outcome each and every time.”

Along with Cedric Benson being frustrated, saying that the Bengals offense is lacking an identity, and Terrell Owens saying that his vast experience is being disregarded and his input is falling on deaf ears, the chink in the "armor" between players and coaches is growing far too much to ignore.

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This is what happens

in the land of the Groundhog. Here we go again!

by occams_tiger_teeth on Oct 12, 2010 2:29 AM EDT reply actions  

At this point getting rid of Brat is the only way to saving this season. It’s well known the players do not respect him…if he were gone we would see a different attitude.

by Bdub14 on Oct 12, 2010 6:16 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

Firing Brat might not save the season. But it’s the ONLY way to solve the rift in the locker room.

And that alone would make it worth it.

by FriarBob on Oct 12, 2010 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

every time my cell phone rings with a text I deep down hope it’s my brother updating me that Brat was fired, but I’m still waiting

by whodeydoc on Oct 12, 2010 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

lol same thing

=/ sigh

I'm in the sports marketing game. Sports and football isn't just fun, thats money.

by C Byers on Oct 12, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

This coaching staff is arrogant

Except Zimmer, who takes the blame for his mistakes. You never see Bratkowski owning up to his many failures. The coaches don’t listen to the players. I get the feeling that Bratkowski is not accountable to anyone except his buddy Mike. He’s got a sweet deal in Cincinnati and he’s ruining everyone’s careers.

by BonnieBengal on Oct 12, 2010 6:36 AM EDT reply actions   2 recs

Symptom of having a head coach and offensive co-ordinator

who have contracts that end at the end of the season with no sign they are comming back or staying.

Nobody really knows why it happens but it happens in every sport in nearly every instance of a team having a “lame duck” head coach.

by Sheffieldbengal on Oct 12, 2010 8:05 AM EDT reply actions  

WHYUS! - Dilfer saw what you saw.

"Now onto more important things: Punching Errorlando Cabrerror in the fucking tits." -Geki

by GrooveLeg on Oct 12, 2010 9:27 AM EDT reply actions  

WHYUS is among the top five on this board IMO in making sense when he posts

BTW, Marvin is not simply a lame duck – he is simply lame. There is no excuse for the readiness of this team. None. When you lose the respect of your employees is is very difficult to get it back. The only way that I know to do it is to have a heart to heart, admit your errors and appeal to their professionalism in an effort to get everyone remotivated. All of the yelling and demeaning and blaming them is only going to drive a bigger wedge. Respect is a fragile thing. It is much easier to lose than it is to gain. It is all about being a real leader. Just because you are in a position of authority does not mean you are a leader. A leader without followers is just a guy taking a walk.

Honest Abe once decided to fire one of his commanders. His military advisors objected saying “you can’t just fire him. He is a General.”

Abe responded with a question. “Tell me, if you call a tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have?”

They all responded “five.”

He said “No. there are only four. Just because you call a tail a leg does not mean it is one.” .

"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"

by JUNGLEJOHN on Oct 12, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

this is an outstanding comment.

"Now onto more important things: Punching Errorlando Cabrerror in the fucking tits." -Geki

by GrooveLeg on Oct 12, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1

In Zim We Trust......Collaros for Heisman...An Avid Reader of Cincyjungle.com

by TennBengalfan on Oct 12, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks JJ for the props,

and for your comments on Marvin and Honest Abe, what a great analogy.. I love it.
Good job

by WHYUS!! on Oct 12, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm just going to say it now

I want Brian Schottenheimer to be the HC next year. Offensive minded, up-and-comer who seems to be pretty adept at coaching. Hopefully he can get Zimmer to stay on to run the D.

As for the Difler breakdown, i thought he did a good job. I thought the second pick was the most inexcusable as they should have run to chew clock then punted, but if that throw had been to TO’s inside, it would have been caught and this would all be moot.

by Cedric Benson Boat Party on Oct 12, 2010 10:27 AM EDT reply actions  

Sounds like a good plan

Except… Carson Palmer is Drew Bledsoe. The guy can’t move to run a bootleg to save his life.

by sgiridharan1982 on Oct 12, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree Palmer isn’t the most nimble QB, but i wouldn’t say he is Bledosoe like, but year, I agree with what you are getting at. The thing I like about Schotty is he seems to have an overall plan of attack in calling plays and uses everyone on offense (which i think would be real good for Scott and Gresham going forward). This puts the QB in position to be successful even without as much bootleg action.

by Cedric Benson Boat Party on Oct 12, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think we need to

Either keep Marvin and fire brat. Or start from scratch. I also think an offensive guy is not the answer. We need tough d and a running game. Have to resign our corners and c ben. I wouldn’t mind dc for the Vikings fraiser. Seems to command respect and his d is always ready to go. Just the sort of splash we need. Chad can move on. And look at a ol during draft.

by Cal581x on Oct 12, 2010 11:00 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Here's my dream team.

HEAD COACH: ZIMMER
DC: MIKE SINGLETARY
OC: BRIAN BILLICK

by jimbasa on Oct 12, 2010 11:39 AM EDT reply actions  

Just say no Jim

Zimmer would not be a good HC. He would be taken away from his strength which is DC. He would be a victum of the “Peter Principle” where a person excells great at their current level when elevated to a higher level of leadership they generally exceed their level of compentency. Keep him at Zefense, he’s great there.

Singletary is a good example of the above. Great defensive player and coach but not HC. Although it could be a good move…..he probably would go off on MB and kill him.

Billick only wants a HC job. Why hasn’t he taken a job since the Shit Birds said goodbye.

by sofakingood on Oct 12, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

...

I like Zimmer as a HC because he is a great motivator. As a DC he’s showing his weakness as a strategist.

Singletary on the other hand was if not the greatest linebacker in the game. This head coaching job in San Francisco is only going to give him experience but he’s going to realize he needs to focus on D, that’s why I think he’d be a great DC.

Billick wants a HC job, doesn’t mean he’s gonna get it. By the way this is my “dream team” aka wishful thinking.

by jimbasa on Oct 12, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Zimmer +1

In Zim We Trust......Collaros for Heisman...An Avid Reader of Cincyjungle.com

by TennBengalfan on Oct 12, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like Gruden too

I just got this feeling Zimmer is already heading toward the job tho, because Marvin hasn’t re-signed

In Zim We Trust......Collaros for Heisman...An Avid Reader of Cincyjungle.com

by TennBengalfan on Oct 12, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gotta a feeling too

Marvin plays this vague and to sly game with the media and in general. Says, “that”, “things” and “so on and so forth”. I mean be up front with the fans via the media who provides revenue for his salary. Be specific on issues and his suggestions for fixes to a problem.

Speaking of Gruden. I think he is one smart cookie. Do you remember his TV spots during the draft and how he challanged draftees in knowledge, execution and reaction? Granted it was a TV spot but his broadcasting input skills are great as well.

by sofakingood on Oct 12, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't b/c,

I think Zim sees what Marvin goes through with MB and no head coach has to do what MB asks them to do. He’ll be gone a year or two, along with Marvin. I think Brat gets the job and that is what is in the makings. I hate it, but that’s my guess. MB loves Brat and that is why he’s not gone.

by WHYUS!! on Oct 12, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

sofa king we todd ed

In Zim We Trust......Collaros for Heisman...An Avid Reader of Cincyjungle.com

by TennBengalfan on Oct 12, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe during this bye week they can get their problems worked out if they really want to win

It gives Palmer and the WR’s 2 weeks to try and get there “timing” down. lets hope this bye week came at the perfect time to get healthy, look at some film, and fix whatever is going wrong with this team. Maybe we can rip off 5 or six straight games and the Ravens/Steelers will lose a few in a row. You never know, it’s the NFL. Who Dey

In Zim We Trust......Collaros for Heisman...An Avid Reader of Cincyjungle.com

by TennBengalfan on Oct 12, 2010 12:14 PM EDT reply actions  

With all the talk of Marvin and Brat...

If all of these pick are due to bad routes as we keep hearing about, does Mike Sheppard need to take some of this blame as well?

by smoormandiddy on Oct 12, 2010 12:31 PM EDT reply actions  

I think so

Somebody needs to wake Chad up. I understand he draws double coverage but still. He is not there. He is to explosive with yac. Brat has done a poor job of getting him started early. And please let ship come back for the atl game. Caldwell is not getting it done. He is weak sauce. And Palmer open ur eyes. I know u have never had a te to throw to. But it’s ok to dump one out to Gresham. He’s a beast u gotta use him. Mismatch just about everytime he gets open.

by Cal581x on Oct 12, 2010 12:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Shephard sucks

Does anyone think that these WR’s really listen and respect this guy. He is in the same boat as Brat, and Marvin. Do as I say I dont care if it doesnt work its my idea so its right. I am pretty sure TO and CP have had good ideas and they just dont listen. Pretty Lame ass IMO.

by Bengal Brian on Oct 12, 2010 2:47 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree

What has he done exactly? All I see are underachieving and failed receivers since we hired Shepard. We have not had a good WR coach since Hue Jackson. Sure, Shipley is good, but I would argue he came to us that way. Anyone that needs deveoped is screwed with Shepard as a coach.

by BonnieBengal on Oct 12, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just wonder if Marvin cares

as much as he used too. He sees the writing on the wall with Mikey Boy. Problem is who better than Marvin would consider working for Mikey.

Brat, even if we are wrong and he isn’t a total cluster fuck, wields no respect from most of the Offensive players. It’s true that the coaches aren’t the ones fumbling, throwing interceptions or going offsides but offensively the coaches are not putting the players in the best position to win.

"They looked far more like they....were trying to screw the football than move it downfield" JungleJohn

by featherman on Oct 12, 2010 3:26 PM EDT reply actions  

I am getting the feeling....

that the offense is so sick of Bratkowski that they have quit on him… I don’t know, I could be wrong.

by D-Day77 on Oct 13, 2010 12:36 AM EDT reply actions  

I agree with this.

And that affects the Defense as well.

by BonnieBengal on Oct 13, 2010 5:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know guys. Many things in life are a mystery to me.

In the end all I can say for sure is that if we go into the last 4 games of the season more that one game under .500 we are probably out of it. Marvin will be gone along with Brat. Then it is deja vu all over again.

 The coaches who are unemployed at this point are there for a reason. Gruden and Cowher are the only exceptions I can think of. My dream HC would be Cowher. He could attract a top notch OC. Gruden could do the same to a bit of a lesser extent. If I were either of them I would run away from Cincy. MB and Katie, it seems to me are a nightmare to work for. Who would work for them if there were any other options available. Marvin is probably the Topper Harley for us – The best of what is left. Cowher or someone like him is what we need and there is only one of him. But, wouldn’t that be great. A guy can dream can’t he? Could you imagine our first away game in Pittsburg with Cowher in stripes? But that ain’t gonna happen.

"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"

by JUNGLEJOHN on Oct 13, 2010 11:10 AM EDT reply actions  

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