Marvin Goes Back To Third Downs
by Jason Garrison on Oct 18, 2010 9:13 PM EDT
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PrintI'm going to have to ask you to relive a painful moment in recent history. Here we go: The Bengals are leading the Buccaneers by a score of 21-14. There is a little over two minutes left in the game and the Bengals have the ball. It's third down and the Bengals need 13 yards for a first.
There would be two schools of though here. School A would say that you have a fairly solid defense and a punter with a big leg. Play it safe, get a few yards on the ground with your running back who's already tore the defense for over 100 yards, punt the ball, pinning them deep and rely on your defense to get it done.
School B would disagree. School B is the school of no guts, no glory. They say drop back and throw for the first down. If you get it you're not too terribly far from the point that your awesome kicker can put the game away for sure. If you don't get it then you can always punt the ball and rely on your defense. It's the whole, high risk, high reward theory.
In this particular instance, the Bengals coaching staff chose to go with school B. Palmer dropped back, found Chad Ochocinco across the middle and across the first down line and fired the ball. It bounced off of Chad's hands and into the waiting arms of Buccaneers safety Sabby Piscitelli. A couple minutes later, the game was over and Bengals fans nation wide questioned the play call that seemed to seal the Bengals fate.
Let's pretend for a second that Chad didn't drop that pass. The Bengals would have had a first down on a gutsy call and more than likely would have won the game making their current record 3-2. Carson Palmer may not have been booed when he surpassed 20,000 career yards and Bengals fans would feel more comfortable heading into the incredibly tough section of their schedule. Fans also wouldn't blame Lewis for the play call.
Lewis took the blame for the loss after the game, saying he wanted to be aggressive and go for the first down through the air with the hopes of picking it up and then being able to run out the clock. He chose not to run the ball, which would have led to a punt if the first down wasn’t converted. Cedric Benson and the running game had produced 88 yards in the second half of the game and punter Kevin Huber was averaging 51.3 yards on the day.
Last season the Bengals were 4-1 at this point in the season. The difference between that team and this team, other than a lot of other differences, has been execution. Last year, the Bengals made plays like that. It was evident when Palmer led the Bengals on the last ditch effort winning drives that earned the Bengals the nickname "The Cardiac Cats". This season, those high risk high rewards" plays haven't gone their way. You win some and you lose some.
Lewis is confident in his offense, though. He's certain that the Bengals will get rewarded for taking that risk in future games.
"I have a lot of faith in our offensive group to get it done," said Lewis on Monday. "We didn’t come through this time but I think as the rest of the season goes we’ll make those plays."
I for one hope his confidence isn't misplaced - like the emperor's confidence was misplaced in his young apprentice Darth Vader..... I'm sorry, help it I could not (in my Yoda voice).
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To be honest, I'd throw it.
fortune usually favors the bold. TO was open on the first INT; Chad should have made the catch on the second INT. People forget how many games Palmer won last year with his last minute heroics.
Embarrassing loss to be sure, only made more embarrassing by the fact that somebody named Sabby Piscitelli made the INT. Isn’t he the guy who is the live-in housekeeper for Angela Bower?
"Ryan, Things in here don't react too well to bullets." - Marko Ramius
A perfect throw and a bad hands do'nt make for a good QB
The play off door is still wide open for us, yes we have problems but so does every one else (and yes i will always hate the Steelers).For much as our bad play on O and D i will bring this up again, where is our special teams? That should be our X-factor to take out our mistakes.5 games 1 good return(B Scott against the Ravens) and i think A. Jones had a decent punt return(24 yds?). I need too see one solid game from all three aspects of the game and no more excuses Zim and Marv
Marvin is an idiot. Run the damn ball run down the clock and punt
TB would not have driven down the field after that. The INT gave them a crap ton of confidence and all the momentum. Run the damn ball you idiot
No truer words were ever spoken - err... typed.
That was a bone headed call made by a man with his priorities in the wrong place. The 1st priority is to win the game. A long typical Huber punt with 80 yards to defend and we in all likely hood win that game.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
I liked the call to pass, but...
Brat should have been chirping in Carson’s ear that if someone wasn’t wide-wide-wide open then he should take a knee, let the clock run down, and settle for the punt. Chad should have caught it but that’s not the time to squeeze it in.
I believe that it shows a lack of confidence in the Defense
Last year we go with the run and punt it option and know that the defense can stop the advance and win the game for us. This year, and notably in this game, the defense was letting us down and couldn’t contain an offense that they should have handled somewhat easily. Marvin decides to go for the 1st down because he isn’t sure if his defense could stop Tampa Bay from marching into a game winning drive.
game tying drive
"They looked far more like they....were trying to screw the football than move it downfield" JungleJohn
I don’t know if it’s fair to say he didn’t have faith in the defense there, especially when, with TB having no timeouts, you only really need to defend the sidelines. I believe Marvin when he says it was about having faith in the offense. Really, you only need to have faith in them not to turn it over, a faith which turned out to be misplaced in that instance.
In the end they did show him that they don't deserve his confidence.
An average O drove the ball like hall of famers.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
TheCinWin
I completely disagree. The defense gave up 7 points the entire game and suddenly they were going to forget how to play defense. TB couldn’t do shit against our defense at all and it would not have changed there. It just shows how stupid Brat is. Its ass if he convinces marvin to be an idiot with him. Stupid play call, stupid coaches.
The last 2 minutes showed me that.....
While they are very good durng normal circumstances, under pressure they become very mediocre. I saw evidence that they simply paniced. Really good defenses do not panic the respond and redouble their efforts. Our’s simply didn’t. It was not just one bad play – it was a series of bad plays.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
I'm fine with being aggressive, but....
when you have a history of finding a way to screw up a wet dream I believe I would have went with the conservative approach.
Am I just not remembering it right....
but wasn’t the 3rd and 13 pass the one to Owens that was intercepted by Talib?
yeah
the ocho-caiman impersonation came to end the last drive, iirc
I could sleep when I lived alone.
Is there a ghost in my house?
by supergrover on Oct 19, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
If you're going to be aggressive on that drive
you throw on second down or maybe even first down, but not when the other team can bring out their dime package.
If you’re going to throw on third down on that drive you make sure you never huddle and don’t allow the defense to substitute.
Not rocket science.
by occams_tiger_teeth on Oct 19, 2010 1:01 AM EDT reply actions
again this illustrates a common problem
Bengals play calling into the other teams strength.
"They looked far more like they....were trying to screw the football than move it downfield" JungleJohn
once again
why is this coaching staff still in place? mike brown would be your answer. I wish I could win the lottery three or four times in a row so I could buy this team and put football people in charge of running it (actually have a gm and a coaching staff that knew what the hell they were doing), I wouldn’t do anything except watch games and hold up the trophy at the end of the year, come to think of it, most of the time if your team’s owner is well known, that isn’t a good thing (Mike Brown, Al Davis, Dan Snyder, etc…)
They are in place and already signed. New guys would cost more money.
And, there is no guarentee that a new guy would do any better. Great coaches don’t want or need to sign to work for Mike Brown.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
oh I agree
I don’t think much is going to change as long as MB is in charge, which is sad to say b/c it’s not like I can stop cheering for the Bengals, I’m not that kind of fan, I’ll go down with the ship, I just wish we could change the ship’s captain
Yea. I kinda feel like a sailor in the movie The Caine Mutiny
I half ecpect to see MB sitting in a chair rolling ball bearings around in his hand talking about how somebody stole his strawberries.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
don't ask me
big Marvin supporter for so long and just growing frustrated with the incessant problems with stupid penalties, stupid 2 minute mark f’ups, inability to adjust in game (if it starts shitty, it stays shitty and that’s the way we like it!), and players seemingly never ready to start games.
I could sleep when I lived alone.
Is there a ghost in my house?
Realistic
the entire offense just lacks stability… from the O-line to the QB to the WR (looking at you Caldwell and Ocho) . in watching the team play (mainly the offense) I come back with one conclusion – they just aren’t very good. Carson is not the same confident QB he was a few years ago… blame it on the O-line or whatever, but regardless, he has taken a step back. they are yet to put a solid game together and until they do it over the course of a couple of weeks, I just have to keep my expectations realistic. this is the time where Carson needs to step up and take the team by the boot straps and lead them. may not be fair, but it all will have to fall on his shoulders.
Surprisingly, or against expectations, T.O. has been the most reliable of the experienced receivers (TO, CO, AC), even with the drops. His routes appear to be tight. He moves well after the catch (the other two are notorious for catch and flop) and he (mostly…) makes it difficult for defenders to get at the ball. [I say mostly, because he had a no-try on the interception in the TB game. Can’t say he could have changed it, but it looked limp.]
I could sleep when I lived alone.
Is there a ghost in my house?
by supergrover on Oct 19, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
How quickly we forget
For the past week everyone keeps talking about the bad play calling in the Tampa game but this is TWICE IN TWO WEEKS!! Flashback to the end of the second quarter against the Browns. We JUST scored 10 to tie and we driving with a 1st and 10 at the Browns 26 yard line with somewhere around 2:00 to go. We had ALL of the momentum. Even if we failed to score, we still had the momentum after coming back with two back to back scoring plays to tie the game. What did Marvin and/or Brat do? THREE STRAIGHT PASS PLAYS!! This left time on the clock. When the Browns blocked the FG attempt, the marched down and got one of their own. That was a HUGE shift and ultimately was the game. There should have been NO time on the clock when we kicked that ball.
Our coaching is one of the worst groups in the league (except for Zim).
by steveinct on Oct 19, 2010 9:36 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I love the (except for Zim)
I think our offense is a big reason for the defense not looking as well this year, if you were a defender it would be hard to kill yourself each play to get the offense the ball back just for them to pass, pass, run, punt every time, I’d go nuts
by whodeydoc on Oct 19, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
nuance!
you must be french ;)
{agree with the nuance, btw. I think it is justifiable to consider how short the offense is on the field if you want to dig at a defensive failure}
I could sleep when I lived alone.
Is there a ghost in my house?
by supergrover on Oct 19, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
As was said in another post
Gotta do something. The no huddle seems to work as a counter to the lack of inventive playcalling. They need to come out of the gate doing it. Seems to open up the short passing game which in turn opens up the run which leads to play action. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate and so on.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't
But on the other hand, the pass play is more riskier than a run. The Bengals haven’t played well enough to justify taking risks with 2 minutes to go and a 1 score lead.
After all, they drafted Kevin Huber to be a weapon, so use him as a weapon.
That play was eerily similar to the play in the pre-season when Chad had the same thing happen.
I don’t know if it was the same exact play, but I think it might have been the same route. I will have to see if I can pull up the film.
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