Bengals Are Evaluating Right Tackle Between Dennis Roland And Andre Smith
by Josh Kirkendall on Oct 5, 2010 10:12 AM EDT
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Much of the team's offensive line seems to be totally regressing, emphasized being on the thrones of being dominated when protecting Carson Palmer. But unlike 2009, when Cedric Benson rushed for 100 yards in six games, the team's feature running back has yet to record more than 81 yards on the ground. Furthermore, in only six games last season, Benson averaged less than four yards a carry. He's achieved that, thanks partly to a regressed offensive line with no fullback, during the season's first three games. Benson finally got off the schnide with a 4.0 yard/rush average against the Cleveland Browns last week.
After being sacked four times against the Browns, a team that came into the game ranked 23rd in the league with four sacks, Palmer is on-pace to being sacked 28 times this year. While that might seem like a rather acceptable number, it's not just the sacks that cause problems. Pressure forces a quarterback to throw before the route's completed, many times ending with an incomplete pass or worse, an interception. Including the four sacks, Palmer was knocked down seven times by the Browns defense; three times by Matt Roth, who lines up across the right tackle.
So far this season, Palmer has been hit 25 times in four games, or just over six times a game.
| Opponent | Times Sacks | Times Hit |
| @ New England | 1 | 6 |
| Baltimore | 1 | 7 |
| @ Carolina | 1 | 5 |
| @ Cleveland | 4 | 7 |
You could identity many problems with the protection and run blocking, ranging from Kyle Cook and Nate Livings. But it seems most of the protection breakdowns typically come from the right tackle spot, with Dennis Roland manning the position during a majority of the snaps this year (where the hell is Anthony Collins?).
Andre Smith, the man that's supposed to become a foundation piece on the offensive line, is slowly being worked into the fray. Before sitting against the Carolina Panthers in week three, Smith was averaging 10-12 snaps. Against the Cleveland Browns, Roland and Smith "took roughly the same amount of snaps at right tackle." The Bengals are evaluating the position to basically find out if Smith is ready to take over for Roland.
“Well, he played more snaps yesterday. We’ll evaluate that this week and see what’s the best way to go. But we want to keep putting our foot on him and pressing it and trying to see what’s the best option for us there.”
My question is: How badly is Smith not ready if the solution is to play Roland over him?
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Break down of Andre Smith's play
From what the guy said, Andre played pretty well. He had a few mistakes but they generally didn’t cost us. Roland, once again, didn’t play very well so hopefully Andre gets more snaps against TB and then takes over the gig full time after the bye. That should help out our offensive line immensly.
Okay, they are evaluating Larry and Curley. I wonder who Moe is and when he will be announced.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
The fact that the Fat Man is finally getting on the field is possibly the best news out of this.
If it takes a loss to the Browns to improve our OLine, I’ll ****ing take it.
when you show up to training camp looking like this
there’s a reason roland beats you out
"wherever Brad St. Louis is and Shayne Graham is about to be." -R.F. Mehl
The first play Andre Smith took the field,
he gave up a sack. To be honest, I think both Smith and Roland are liabilities on the outside against speed rushers. I’m wondering if we should be trying Andre Smith at RG. His strength is definitely driving guys back in confined space and I am beginning to suspect the real deception is Bobbie Williams, who has been dissembled by his years of solid play and attention-grabbing, 6’9", Roland. Several of the sacks and pressures from the right side this year were definitely due to Williams – not Roland (though Lurch does have his fair share of let-downs). Not only is Williams getting older, but I think he is playing hurt too.
The real question I think is where is Collins? Is he hurt? I think it’d be interesting to see him and Smith side by side on the right plowing ahead of Benson. And possibly swing Whitworth over to the TE position on that side as well to form a wedge against DEs and LBs.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
at a loss to explain why collins isn't starting
agree on williams. he’s sliding this year.
as for cook, i don’t know whether to hate him or appreciate him. some of cook’s screwups are coming from cook trying so hard to protect the guards misplay.
as for roland and smith, neither have won the job, neither are looking like they want to win the job. and if collins can’t step up, i see the bengals drafting a tackle in the 1st 3 rounds next draft.
"wherever Brad St. Louis is and Shayne Graham is about to be." -R.F. Mehl
Cook is a bit of an enigma
Last year, people were lauding him – this year, nothing but chastising. I’m wondering if he might be hurt as well, or maybe he is overcompensating for a superannuated Williams and inexperienced Livings. The aspect I love about Cook is his intelligence. Watch some interviews of him and you realize he is a very smart guy with ambition – which is what you need out of a center for calling blocks at the helm of the line. The other factor to consider is he has gone up against some tough NT’s in Wilfork, Ngata, and Rogers. Definitely am not envious of being in his shoes with those guys lined up a couple feet from your facemask.
Don’t think Roland doesn’t want the job. I think he’s been playing very well for an undrafted (3rd year?) player. It sort of bothers me to see him getting all the blame when it’s not necessarily all his fault.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
Take "Jelly Moobs" Public
Publish his weight on game day not only to see if he gets fined for contract overweight clauses but let the whodey nation see how he is letting the team down.
Remember guys what your high school and college coaches did to you if you were not in shape. Run “Jelly” Run…..wind sprints, laps, pushups….and add pro punishment, take money away.
He needs to play more
Big A must have got in at least what 20-25 reps. And for the first time it was solo, meaning not in a jumbo package. He played decent. Gave up a sack but that’s cause cp9 stepped up into it. He got beat a couple of times but also didn’t see him give up on any plays. The guy is strong lower body as well as upper. Need to get him in a groove get him 30 plays this week. Train hard on bye week the. Come out and play a statement game vs the falcons. He needs reps. Hasn’t played meaningful snaps. His time is now. The. We can pound the rock let big cben run loose. And bam that opens up some passes for tocho
by Cal581x on Oct 5, 2010 11:50 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Good point
A comparison. Race horse trainers sometimes lightly train a horse, give him two or three races to get him tight, then turn him loose for the money. If they do this with BIG A you run the risk of getting him injured or worst getting CP9 injured. Like in racing no amount of training(practice) is equal to race day(games).
just don't think he's going to cut it at tackle in the nfl
guard, sure, that’s clearly an option. he’s too fat and too slow to work as a tackle in the nfl.
"wherever Brad St. Louis is and Shayne Graham is about to be." -R.F. Mehl
I have a theory
Boobs Smith played LEFT tackle in college right? He was drafted 6th overall as a LEFT tackle right?
What if his right brain (which controls the left side) was developed to such extent compared to his left side (which controls the right side) that he just can’t seem to block from the right side.
I think it’s a harder transition to make from LT to RT and viceversa compared to shifting within the interior line. What if this guy was only trained to play LT? I mean coaches saw tape of him at LT didn’t they?
This theory will probably never get to be proven so I see the only solution now is to pluck him in at guard and use Collins at RT.
by jimbasa on Oct 5, 2010 11:57 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Not sure I buy it
but, I found an interesting article a while back with the following reasoning on why Smith is having issues;
“Instead of pushing off with his right leg as he kicks and extends with his left in pass protection, Smith now must do the exact opposite. He used to have his left hand down and left leg back in his three-point stance and now it is the right-side limbs that have that duty. All the critical muscle memory that he built up and acquired during his time in college is pretty much lost as he attempts to get his body ready to do the same things in the opposite directions. For example, Smith is right-handed and used to have his more dominant arm inside when punching the defender and preventing him from beating him inside, the closest route to the quarterback. Now, his left arm has to handle that role.”
To read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/ross_tucker/07/08/rookies/index.html#ixzz11VSUF8w8
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
either way
I’m with you in that I think he should be playing guard. There’s a 330 lb mountain of mass in front of you, Andre, who can’t move right or left around you, now go push him back.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
I still think he will
Be fine. Just get him the playing time and he will come into his own. I think the a real problem is our play calling. Need to pound the ball. If we have any chance of winning it is proved we need to run the ball and run it well.
by Cal581x on Oct 5, 2010 1:51 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Browns sacking Palmer
1 given up by Roland Roth was by Roland in a flash
1 given up by Kelly Kelly looked to have come in too low and just got pushed down
1 given up by Smith and looking at it again Smith didn’t do too terribly bad holding Coleman off although he did get pushed WAY back
1 given up by Whitworth/Livings Shaun Smith had both Livings and Whitworth occupied and Livings couldn’t separate to get to Fujita
by Oregonbengalsfan on Oct 5, 2010 7:23 PM EDT reply actions
I blame the last one on Livings
he should have known to slide over and pick up Fujita going around Smith
In all fairness to Roland, at least he pushed him out of the pocket area. I don’t think he anticipated Palmer scrambling out of the pocket to the left, but it was pretty pathetic-looking.
Out of curiosity, who is the better blocker, Kelly or Grisham? At one point, I saw Grisham lined up in the backfield as a FB.
And do you have the sack responsibilites for the first three games? I’d be interested to see them.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
And if I remember correctly
I saw Gresham miss a block that would have allowed Benson to at least get out of the backfield. Or he was just beat on the block. I don’t remember for sure. But I know Kelly is known for his blocking ability. Whether Gresham is ready to carry that role I am not sure. I’m thinking that the way Kelly was handled on that play was a rarity, but I could be wrong.
As for the sacks on the previous 3 games, I hadn’t gone back through the nfl.com highlight videos to look at all of those but I might do that. I just happened to have a few minutes on my hands and I was curious to see who missed what on those sacks.
by Oregonbengalsfan on Oct 5, 2010 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
well don't waste your time on my account
I’m just surprised there isn’t a seemingly readily available site out there with stats on offensive linemen and blocks they miss or make. Or if there is, I’m not aware of it…
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
6th pick in the draft?
Why would you draft a left tackle 6th overall, pay him left tackle money, and then move him to right tackle? If we needed a right tackle we could have probably got a good one in a later round for half of the money, who would probably be contributing right now instead of drawing a paycheck for nothing. Who makes these decisions? They say Nick Saban mislead us, the writing was on the wall. When he held out we should have just let him sit and not paid him a dime. Now we are out 25 million for this tub of lard. We could have spent that money or made a trade for a proven commodity.
scouting, or lack-there-of
The crucial component Mikey Boy is cheap at is the scouting department. While most teams looked at this tub of goo and laughed, we got all excited because a few “media experts” had him high on their lists. In case you don’t realize this, Andre Smith is just one of many high draft picks we have bombed on. And it’s getting tiring….
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
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