Just Check The Last Option For Whom To Blame For Offensive Woes: All Of The Above

by Josh Kirkendall on Nov 29, 2010 12:01 PM EST

CINCINNATI - NOVEMBER 21: Carson Palmer #9 of the Cincinnati Bengals gives instructions to his team during the Bengals 49-31 loss to the Buffalo Bills at Paul Brown Stadium on November 21 2010 in Cincinnati Ohio. (Photo by Andy Lyons/Getty Images)

As much as some salivate at the thought, it would be foolish to just blame Carson Palmer or Cedric Benson for the team's troubles in 2010.

For instance, Cedric Benson is having a very below-average season, averaging 3.6 yards/rush through ten games -- including a defeating 3.3 yard/rush average on second downs. In eight of the team's ten games this season, Benson has recorded a yard/rush average less than four yards and against the Colts -- one of the league's worst rushing defenses -- Benson only rushed for 24 yards on 14 carries. According to Football Outsiders, Cedric Benson's DYAR (Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement) is -39, which ranks 35th in the NFL. His -13.1% DVOA (Defensive-adjusted Value Over Average) is ranked 33rd, which means an average running back would perform better than Benson has this year.

Then again, it's not entirely Benson's fault. According to Pro Football Focus' analysis -- based on grading every player on every snap -- Kyle Cook and Andrew Whitworth are the only players on the offensive line that's graded above the average player during running plays, whereas Bobbie Williams, Anthony Collins, Dennis Roland and Nate Livings have impacted runs negatively. In other words, Cook is rated as the league's 13th best run blocking center, whereas Nate Livings is one of the worst run blocking guards in the league. Note: Livings is actually rated as the team's worst run and pass blocker.

The pass blocking is slightly better with guys like Andrew Whitworth and Bobbie Williams easily rated as the team's best pass blockers. Whitworth's pass blocking is rated third in the NFL, with only Atlanta's Tyson Clabo and Miami's Jake Long rated better. Same with Bobbie Williams, ranked third behind Kansas City's Brian Waters and Green Bay's Josh Sitton as the league's best guards in pass protection. Yet, Nate Livings is graded the worst pass blocker at guard; Kyle Cook ranks 29th and Dennis Roland ranks 66th respective to their positions.

Yet, it would be equally foolish to push blame away from Palmer. For instance, Palmer is fairly decent on first and second down passing, recording a passer rating of 85 or better. Yet, on third downs, his completion rate drops below 50 percent with more interceptions than touchdowns and his passer rating drops to 58.2. One could however simply argue that the Bengals often find themselves in third-and-long situations with an effective rushing offense on second downs. Football Outsiders ranks Palmer's 7.7% DVOA as 24th, which is barely better than the average quarterback.

BY DOWN	CMP	ATT	YDS	CMP%	YPA	TD	INT	SACK	RAT
1st down	103	172	1226	59.9	7.13	8	5	4.0	85.1
2nd down	88	129	853	68.2	6.61	6	4	9.0	89.1
3rd down	63	127	651	49.6	5.13	5	6	7.0	58.2
4th down	3	4	30	75.0	7.50	0	0	0.0	95.8

It would be easy to just blame Palmer. It would be easy to just blame Benson. It would be easy to just blame the offensive line. It would be easy to just blame the play-calling. But, if you want to really find someone to blame, pick the last option. All of the above.

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dont forget

When they get into 3rd and long…
Carson goes into shotgun, and they give the snap count away by Livings hitting Cook. You know what im talking about

www.fantasydaddy.com

by Joe Goodberry on Nov 29, 2010 12:18 PM EST reply actions

Yeah, for sure all of the above. Became clear against the Jets that Palmer is forcing some passes.

Question is, is that completely his fault, mostly his fault, or just partially his fault?
Team has to make that decision when determining which of the “all of the aboves” should be kept mostly intact, or completely replaced.

I’d give Carson one more year, and more or less tear the other 3 down. Not going to magically get better w/ a new QB next year, so might as well give whoever they bring in one year of learning, and Carson one last shot at success here. If not, Carson can say hello to Minnesota, which has a lot of things in place for a QB to succeed. Man, I’d hate to see Carson tear up the NFC North next year while we’re stuck w/ David Klingler V.2 w/ a line that still sucks and Bernard Scott attempting to carry the load.
What would be the absolute worst: getting rid of Benson & Palmer, marginally upgrading the line, and keeping Bratkowski. that would be just the utmost amount of ineptness.

How will Chris Carpenter explain this to his children?

by Grizzlyfox on Nov 29, 2010 12:23 PM EST reply actions

I think we can do all right without Palmer.

I’d take Luck if he’s available when we pick, which would be around pick 2. I’d re-sign Benson and take the best O-line in the 2nd round, be it a guard or a tackle. Hopefully Andre Smith can get back on the field by training camp and that way we would upgrade our O-line, and get our next franchise QB. Make no mistake, Luck is no Klingler my friend.

What do you do when there's no way out? Find a way to get deeper in it.

by jimbasa on Nov 29, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions

I'm not a huge college football guy, but I agree

Luck would definitely be worth the pick. From what I hear, he’s a once in 10 years kind of guy.

And this is saying a lot coming from a pretty staunch Carson supporter in myself. If Luck isn’t available with that first pick, I would draft an offensive lineman. I’m worried that Smith may never fully come back from his injury – foot injuries seem to nag people for their entire careers (see Yao Ming).

This is our year!

by Paul Cannon on Nov 29, 2010 5:35 PM EST up reply actions

I don't see an O-line rated anywhere near the 5th pick

What do you do when there's no way out? Find a way to get deeper in it.

by jimbasa on Nov 29, 2010 5:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions

I am truly afraid of some kind of offseason like this

“What would be the absolute worst: getting rid of Benson & Palmer, marginally upgrading the line, and keeping Bratkowski. that would be just the utmost amount of ineptness.”

by Rocket_Man_G on Nov 30, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions

Honestly, that SoundFX thing needs to find its way onto the internet. I want to watch a lot of it.

Bratkowski did some interesting things that make me wonder if he’s the one holding everyone back.

Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"

by Doc Scratch on Nov 29, 2010 12:37 PM EST reply actions

loved the Whitworth stats

I’ve been saying it all year while folks think we need to move him to LG….WHIT IS A STUD, keep him at LT, and find a gaurd in the later rounds.

Doc- I DVR’d the SoundFX and have watched it twice thus far….Bobby B had 1 sound bite out of all of his that didn’t make me want to throw the remote through my roomates brand new TV. Marvin actually was pretty dialed in, although now i think he lacks the emotion and fire to remain as our HC (hopefully that b/c he knows the season is over and he just wants out). As bad as this will sound, i actually loved the way sexy Rexy came off- yes he’s loud/obnoxious and arrogant, but he gets his guys fired up and you can tell that cocky swagger clearly rubs off on his guys.

by TruWhoDey on Nov 29, 2010 12:54 PM EST reply actions

Whit

I think he would be a better LG than Livings, which the stats also show. He doesn’t give up sacks but does give up penalties. If Luck is gone when we pick, we could more back to one of the best lines in football by taking a Tackle. DE is a possibility, but Dunlop and MJ are performing well. I don’t see a Safety worth taking top 5. I could see AJ Green or Ryan Mallet, but LG remains our position which could be most upgraded, and Whit would be a huge upgrade.

It must be inordinately taxing to be such a boob. ~ The Brain

by jim0ijk on Nov 29, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions

Ryan Mallet is not worth a top 5 pick!

by DonMegga on Nov 29, 2010 5:53 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs

+1

Whit needs to stay where he is, and this team needs to draft a legit LG.

This is our year!

by Paul Cannon on Nov 29, 2010 5:36 PM EST up reply actions

I hope everyone here

saw how pedestrian P. Manning looked with a bad O-Line.

"When you chart (the plays) and see where it broke down there was no common theme to it." - Bob Bratkowski

by featherman on Nov 29, 2010 1:05 PM EST reply actions 1 recs

...

Calling arguably the best QB in NFL history pedestrian under any circumstances is ridiculous.

What do you do when there's no way out? Find a way to get deeper in it.

by jimbasa on Nov 29, 2010 1:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions

not after watching that game

SD has his number

by smoormandiddy on Nov 29, 2010 1:24 PM EST up reply actions

If that is your opinion of that game, you clearly did not watch it.

CET Brown
Can't Evaluate Talent.

by supergrover on Nov 30, 2010 6:53 AM EST up reply actions

I "rec" this comment..

by WHYUS!! on Nov 30, 2010 10:56 AM EST up reply actions

Thanks for putting the O-line stats up

Because I have been saying this all year. You can Have Carson, Joe Montanna, Peyton Manning behind this Bad Offensive Line and not either of these guys can succeed. Same with any RB except maybe Barry Sanders can perform well. Throw in the fact that we have been substituting Roland and Collins on run and pass plays, and the worst offensive system in the NFL no one can succeed. Oh yeah Peyton looked like Carson this year last night.

by Bengal Brian on Nov 29, 2010 2:27 PM EST reply actions

Wow this is way better then how the coaches go over the games!

I need to show this to the guys!

I got nothing better to do.

by therealcarsonpalmer on Nov 29, 2010 2:40 PM EST reply actions

looks very simple to me.

just go for it on 4th down every time :-)

by bengalinflorida on Nov 29, 2010 2:50 PM EST reply actions

Time to blow it up!

This season was the most embarassing in a long time… you can point fingers in several directions. Here’s what we need to do: 1) trade Palmer to Arizona for a couple draft picks, he gets back out west and a fresh start with a team with some talent, we get picks to build on, get something for him now 2) fire the entire coaching staff and start fresh, we need new people with new ideas 3) we are going to have 1 of the top 5 picks, draft a QB to groom and sign a vet QB to play 1 or 2 years 4) draft smart… upgrade O-line and D-backs immediately 5) open up the damn purse strings and sign a few free agents to go along with the young talent that we do have before they get used to losing all the time 6) beg Brown to hire a real football GM.

by Texas Bengal on Nov 29, 2010 5:38 PM EST reply actions

3 teams that might trade for Palmer

I could see Minnesota, Tennesse or Arizona trading for Palmer.

I like to see us go after Jim Harbaugh and Andrew Luck both. I could see Harbaugh going to Michigan, but if we could get both, that gives us a coach and QB comfortable together, and the type of coach we need.

It must be inordinately taxing to be such a boob. ~ The Brain

by jim0ijk on Nov 30, 2010 9:49 AM EST up reply actions

this is off topic from discussion

but where did you find out Andrew Whitworth is the rated 3rd in pass protection? ive never seen lineman stats and ive googled it with no success. If anyone knows where i can find individual statistics for lineman (specifically ours), that would be great.

by Brian O on Nov 30, 2010 8:36 PM EST reply actions