Question Of The Day: How Would You Grade This Year's Draft Class?
by Josh Kirkendall on Dec 10, 2010 2:23 PM EST
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PrintThe Bengals have had relative success with defensive draft picks in the first round during their rookie seasons. David Pollack, transferring from defensive end to outside linebacker, had a decent season of growth, recording 4.5 quarterback sacks -- two of which came on the final game of the year. Joseph only started nine games in 2006, but recorded 20 passes defensed, which he doesn't repeat until an injury-free 2009 season. Leon Hall exploded onto the scene with five interceptions and nearly 70 tackles his rookie season. Keith Rivers recorded the second most tackles before heading to Injured Reserve with a broken jaw.
Offensively, the Bengals haven't seen the same returns with offensive rookies drafted in the first round during their rookie seasons. Carson Palmer didn't play at all and Chris Perry was labeled Two-Carry Perry after 2004. Andre Smith spent much of his rookie season recovering from a broken foot that would sideline him against for much of 2010.
So when Cincy Jungle says, the Bengals are historically better off drafting someone on defense, we really, really, really mean it.
Yet, Jermaine Gresham is also proving us wrong. Having the best rookie season during the Marvin Lewis era on offense, Jermaine Gresham ranks third among all NFL rookies with 47 receptions -- first among rookie tight ends.
Several of this year's rookie class have made significant contributions already this year. Gresham and Jordan Shipley rank in the top-five in terms of receptions amongst all NFL rookies. Carlos Dunlap leads the team with 4.5 quarterback sacks. Brandon Ghee and Roddrick Muckelroy are two of the top-five tacklers on the special teams. We feel that we should throw out the "wait three years on draft classes and picks" disclaimer because someone else will. We're all about preemptive strikes.
This year's rookie class is standing out like the 2005 class, with Odell Thurman finishing the season as a finalist for defensive rookie of the year and Chris Henry becoming a nightmare for defenses that already had to account for Chad Johnson and T.J. Houshmandzadeh. Jonathan Fanene, last year's second-ranked pass rusher also came out of that class, but didn't come into his own until later in his career. Tab Perry ranked third with 1,562 yards on kickoff returns during his rookie season.
How would you rate this year's rookie class so far?
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LOL!
Didn’t Kirk already head you off at the pass?
by TheWalrus1971 on Dec 10, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
Totally
I’m all about preemptive strikes!
Managing Editor at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Josh Kirkendall on Dec 10, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
So far, best pick is...
…Carlos Dunlap. The only pass-rusher here in the past decade – for realz (sadly). Hopefully his performance in passing downs, alongside Geno Atkins (another rookie with big upside, and less Bengal-ized attitude) will usher in the END of Geathers and Odom, and Rucker stinking it up. (not Fanene, who had 6 1/2 sacks in limited action last year)
The addition of Shipley and Gresham has been timely, but there skillsets that could have done the most to improve our offense – Shipley’s puntreturning and Gresham’s deep threat down the middle to open up running lanes later – have been grossly underutilitized by a terrible Offensive (and offensive) mind in Bob Bratkowski.
Looks like Briscoe could have found some PT with this squad but we cut him. Brandon Gee had his rookie year hiccups but will provide solid depth at CB for the next 3 yrs – kudos.
I give the Draft a B-, but mostly because we didn’t address the Guard and Safety positions early enough in the draft. We could have drafted Colt McCoy instead of Shipley in the 3rd. And our Safeties are burned on the most deep plays in the NFL (sad, b/c it was utterly predictable after last season).
We need (in order of priority):
QB, Andrew Luck in the first round
TCU Safety, Tejay Johnson in the second round
Multiple mid-round pass rushers, and a solid pass-protection Guard and a Fullback with a meanstreak.
by Yaccub Fleishcman on Dec 10, 2010 2:41 PM EST reply actions
Beware those TCU safeties...
See: White, Marvin.
by TheWalrus1971 on Dec 10, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
Man, hindsight is twenty-twenty.
By the way, you’re not the only one I’m about to do this to, I will rip everyone’s things to shreds that make no sense.
First off, punt returns are special teams, not offense. As much as you can blame Brat for his poor usage of Gresham, unfortunately you can’t victimize him for everything that goes wrong. We try, I know, but it’s not gonna happen here.
You’re in luck though, because Darrin Simmons isn’t much better.
Briscoe got beat by a guy who is never active and a guy who is flat-out terrible (who the inactive guy that was drafted to be our future #1 can’t even beat). Many things are said by this. I like Briscoe and wish we could bring him back but I’ll be damned to say he’d get playing time.
I don’t blame them for not drafting guard early enough. We despise our OLine now, of course, but last year it was great at run-blocking. We’d assume it would get better, wouldn’t you? Having the extra time to gel and getting Smith back would’ve done wonders. Honestly, the guards aren’t terrible, just Roland is pathetic and apparently Paul Alexander’s not teaching them technique. I like that they drafted for future/depth here, just makes me wonder if Stephens (who did perform well when Cook was out) and Hudson will actually develop well given that they won’t have technique given to them.
>Could’ve taken Colt McCoy.
Sigh.
Alright, look, we assumed that things would be right with Palmer because we hope for improvement, not regression. We hoped that he’d actually have people to pass to because, when he did, Palmer looked great (Chargers game, final possession against the Jets). In that regard, we were probably right. And in Palmer’s regard, other than a few games, he’s looked at the very least good this year. Sure, he’s thrown for multiple interceptions against teams like the Colts and Bucs and ended up giving the game away a few times this year, but Palmer is also the reason why we were in the Falcons game, the Steelers’ game, the Saints’ game, the Browns game, and almost in the Patriots game. When he’s not throwing multiple ints, like anyone, even Peyton Manning, is prone to do, he is doing everything in his power to make sure we’re still competitive. We’re just finding ways to lose, due to miscues, blunders, or just starting too little too late.
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
While you’re absolutely right that hindsight is 20/20, if we had competent coaches they might have foreseen at least SOME of the danger.
We don’t have all the info the coaches have, when we screw up it’s no big deal. Just another armchair quarterback who didn’t have all the facts. When they screw up — repeatedly — it cripples the team.
Did anyone really think the o-line was in fine shape this last offseason? I know some people seemed to think all the gaps and talent-deficiencies were suddenly and completely solved with the drafting of butterball Smith, but that’s to be expected during draft season. I thought Collins was developing into at least a fairly decent starter, at worst an extremely good guy to have as your backup tackle. I was ok with Cook at center because he was such a huge improvement over Ghiaciuc, but I really wanted top-notch guard to take over for the Mathis/Livings combo of sub-mediocrity. I would then have really liked another guard project to be taken later in the draft to learn for a year or so then hopefully take over for Bobbie Williams, or at least fill in until a better guy was available.
As for the overall draft grade… I’d give it a B+. They’re getting very solid production from many draft picks this year. The only reason I wouldn’t give them an A is because they had such areas of need that they didn’t address. We all knew they needed a safety, but they didn’t bite. We all new (I hope) that they needed a guard.. didn’t happen until VERY late. I think we all knew (and I really hope everyone knows by now) that they need at least a backup quarterback, if not a long term replacement. Nothing. I wouldn’t fault them for not taking more pass rushers because they did take a good prospect who has panned out, and because I don’t think any of us are saying “I knew MJ wouldn’t cut it as a pass rusher!”, and I think we all expected having Maualuga and Rivers back healthy would have made more of a difference, and finally because there’s been so many injuries in the secondary and so many quickly-failing drives on offense that it’s hard to fault the players for not having the energy to sack the opposing QB within the 2 second window they have before someone’s wide open.
Holy run on sentence, Batman!
Point is, it was a good draft. Would like to have seen guard and safety addressed, but it is what it is.
On a side note, hasn’t Fitz looked good? I got filleted and barbequed for defending him as being a solid backup, now he’s lighting it up as a starter. Smart QBs with the drive to be a leader (see Fitzpatrick, Kitna) will have more good games than bad. There isn’t a better prototype for your backup QB. Sure we want the starter to be a God of the Golden Arm, but there needs to be someone with brains and a take-charge attitude to get the job done when the GotGA goes down.
so far B
Gresham- looking back, we could have picked Dez Bryant or Markice Pouncey. Gresham looks good, and will get better with time and a new O.C. But the other 2 are straight up studs!
GRADE: B
Carlos Dunlap- the first half of this season made this pick look like a failure, but the last few weeks make it look like he’s a starter heading into next year.
GRADE: B+
J. Shipley- Maybe our best pick? He looks like the future at WR fir the Bengals. Hopefully whoever the next O.C. is will heavily use a slot WR because Shipley wont have the same production split.out wide.
GRADE: A
Brandon Ghee- Zero production in his rookie season. Ending up on I.R. when the Bengals really needed help at CB. They will need him to play next season with both starters future with the team in jeopardy.
GRADE: C-
Geno Atkins- alright I lied. This may have been the beat draft pick for the Bengals. Atkins had the talent, we knew that. The reason he lasted until the 4th round was his size. Give the Bengals credit, for one of the few times they recognized talent very early and found ways to work a player into he lineup. Atkins has thrived in his nickle package role.
GRADE: A
Roderick Muckelroy- Hasn’t been in the field on defense, but we expected that. As a 4th round pick should be, Muckelroy was more of an investment. He has been solid on special teams, but next season he may significantly more playing time with Dhani Jones and Brandon Johnson contracts expiring after this season.
GRADE: C+
OTIS Hudson- Didn’t make the final 53. Was a reach during the draft. Is on the practice squad now.
GRADE: D
Reggie Stephens- made the roster as the backup C. Looked good in pre season.
Grade: C
Des Briscoe- im not going there… GRADE F for failure
www.fantasydaddy.com
Somewhat disagree with these grades. You've based it on results rather than the actual pick.
Gresham can’t be a B just because he’s underutilized. Yes, Bryant and Pouncey look good, but they were on teams that know what to do with talent. If they were in Cincy, they would have been no better than Jermaine. The result is a B, but the pick is an A.
Dunlap is an A-. Wish he was helping out earlier, but rookie DEs always take notoriously long to adjust. Carlos is already there.
Ship doesn’t seem to make an impact when it matters the most. He seems like a good player, and maybe he’s also been Bob Bratted, but where is he in the clutch? B+
Ghee is a C. Injured, so it’s hard to knock him, but he can’t be higher.
Atkins I think is a bit overrated. He’s one-dimensional, though very good at that one dimension of pass-rushing. For a fourth-rounder though, I’ll agree with your “A.”
Muckelroy – Agree with the “C+,” perfect assessment.
Hudson- Agreed
Stephens – Have to go higher for a 7th rounder. Give him a B+ just for making the roster as such a late pick.
Briscoe – I find it hard to give out an F for a 6th rounder, especially if it appears the coaches just let him get away. Who knows if he’d have ever produced, but a 6th rounder is a 6th rounder. C-
It's time to sink or Zim.
by Pardon_My_French on Dec 10, 2010 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
RE: "I find it hard to give out an F for a 6th rounder"
Hey, it could have been Reggie “lace my smokes and get beat on by a bouncer at a closed by” McNeal.
Managing Editor at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Josh Kirkendall on Dec 10, 2010 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
please let there be no more Reggie McNeals in the future NFL drafts.
I really think Briscoe has a future in the NFL but there was an extremely tiny chance for him to make the Bengals. Doesn’t matter who he is, he’s not going to beat out Chad or TO. As a Kansas resident I’ve watched Briscoe and Shipley for the past few years and it was clear Shipley could have immediate impact in a Welker-esque kind of role. Briscoe is more the prototypical WR type. He could be a very good one or he might just be mediocre, and while there’s little doubt in my mind that he’s going to have an NFL career, it obviously wasn’t going to happen in his first month in the league. Shipley was more NFL-ready and fit exactly the kind of receiver the Bengals needed. Briscoe is more of a Chad/TO type, right down to the questionable maturity. It was obvious which would make the team simply because of what the team had and needed. Throw in Caldwell and Simpson, the two turds that just won’t go down the hole, and there’s no roster spot left for a wideout.
by indesignkat on Dec 11, 2010 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
sorry, that was a bit harsh on Bubba “9 on the wonderlic” Caldwell. He deserves better than to be lumped in with Jerome “0.0” Simpson, but he’s still not worth a roster spot.
by indesignkat on Dec 11, 2010 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
I ju-...
>Gresham: B because not Dez Bryant or Maurkice Pouncey
I really don’t want to shout profanities because Josh wants us to cut them down but this is really tempting me. Reaaaaallly tempting me. This isn’t like Jerome Simpson, Gresham is actually producing at a very good level as a rookie and has plenty of room to grow, especially with a competent OC. Dez Bryant is good but he’s already been injured twice and has a very diva-ish personality. Is he a younger T.O.? Quite possibly. But Gresham has been compared to Antonio Gates and Tony Gonzales, two of the very best at their positions at well. Why don’t people see this? Why do people still hold grudges at Brown for not drafting Bryant? TE was a greater need than WR and OLine put together. I don’t care if we could’ve had either of them, I could not live with another year of Daniel Coats.
Wait, Maurkice Pouncey wasn’t even available!
I swear Carlos Dunlap gets on this site and read for weeks how he was apparently a bust. He’s been nothing but dominant in the short amount of playing time he’s had. For a rookie. He’s second in sacks (for rookies) for having been inactive for the first quarter of the season. That’s insane.
>Ghee: Zero production
Why am I forcing myself to read this…
It’s like people forget Special Teams exists or how important it is until it’s so inherently bad that it loses us games. Just ask the Chargers how bad you can be if your special teams is terrible. 2-5! With the best offense and defense in the NFL! And as Josh said, Ghee is in the top five on special teams tackles.
Muckelroy’s a fourth round pick and is…doing exactly what we drafted him to do: be depth and special teams help. As you said, he’s an investment…so why are you grading him averagely? Because he’s not living up to potential? He’s not had time? This is one of the people in this draft that I really think needs that three-year wait to judge, same with Hudson and Stephens.
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
+1
I’m really glad we didn’t get Bryant. Besides, in a few years, he’d be demanding a ridiculous salary Mike Brown would either pay to maintain the pub he brings or let him go. The Tight End position was where we were weakest at – and we addressed it with Grisham. It’s about time we have an offensive threat there.
I only wished we’d have drafted linemen (offense and defense) instead of Ghee and Atkins. Not sure why we needed to draft high on CB when we already had Joseph/Hall and closing in on Pacman at the time. Atkins certainly shows potential, but I feel like having him is like trying to place a square in a round hole. I just don’t know if he’ll ever be able to find a starting niche on this team.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
I hate giving monetary values to something as unpredictable as the future of nine kids.
But I am willing to label it the best draft under Marvin Lewis.
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
This draft gets an A-
Gresham – “A”: Even though I’m disappointed he’s not used more, he looks great.
Dunlap – “A”: He has been the only bright spot on the D-line.
Shipley – “A-”: He’s outperformed all the rookie WRs that were drafted ahead of him except Dez.
Ghee – “C-”: I had higher hopes, but injury makes this one a wash.
Atkins – “A”: I say make him an every down starter for the rest of the year to see if he can hold up against the run.
Muck – “C+”: Played well on ST from what I’ve garnered, but I don’t see him cracking the starting lineup.
Hudson – “D”: He looked horrible…HORRIBLE…in the preseason, but he did make the practice squad.
Stephens – “B” – for where he was drafted, this seems like a great pickup.
Briscoe – “P” – I just give the Bengals a pass on this one since the Bucs lowballed us. They were ready to PS him.
The only thing that would have made this draft an “A” would be if they had found a starter in the later rounds.
This is our year!
It isn't as easy as it seems to find a first-year starter in late rounds.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
haha, I thought I was being an easy grader.
A- is pretty generous.
This is our year!
by Paul Cannon on Dec 11, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
These comments prove a few things I thought about cincy jungle
TOP – 1. They’re informed – great analysis… better than Chick Ludwig ever was… ;-)
2. They’re opinionated, but respectful (in general, very few trolls)
3. Juuuust a few homers
B- grade for the draft b/c the failure to produce with such a talented crop is the final result of a 2-11 season. The point I made about Shipley not being used in punt-returning, Gresham not stretching the field, the bottomline is that this team is only as good as its’ coached, and operated and managed. But y’all are right – Dunlap, Atkins, Muckelroy, Shipley, Gresham have all produced consistently going into the end of this year. And better yet, they don’t seem Bengal-ized as Paul Daugherty likes to say.
Just a pet-point I’d like to make re: Shiply/Colt McCoy in the 3rd: McCoy is a winner, and a wherling dervish on the field. James Harrison said, “Print that, Colt McCoy is a gamer” after there game. He is the only QB in NCAA history to lead his team to 10+ wins every year. And he will continue to be a winner.
True Bengals fans knew after the poor decision-making and anemic range of Palmer from 2007-2009, that we needed to shore up the depth of our QB situation – in fact, it’s been a top-line issue for CincyJungle over the past 13 weeks. He could have been a steal in the 3rd but Shipley’s productivity is reigned in by terrible coaching/personnel decisions in Special Teams and Offense.
All the prognosticators never predicted such a shameful outcome for the Bengals. It breaks my heart every day as a die-hard fan. I actually cut up my carson palmer jersey and used the swatches to pick up my dog’s s***. True story.
by Yaccub Fleishcman on Dec 10, 2010 6:10 PM EST reply actions
that is a little harsh
i hope you did the same with your marvin lewis autographed headset.
by andyfrombrooklyn on Dec 11, 2010 7:48 AM EST up reply actions
McCoy might be a "winner"
but that’s also what everybody was saying about Vince Young when he came out of college. It’s really just hyperbole until he proves that he can win in this league.
This is our year!
Great Draft
Even though we are having a horrible season, our rookies have been awesome and it just makes me real excited about the future. If we can just build on to our team with another great draft in 2011 then I bet next year will be a whole lot better season.
it is counter intuitive that a 10-6 team loses ten straight and counting the following year
while having a singularly good draft to address weaknesses,
by andyfrombrooklyn on Dec 11, 2010 7:45 AM EST reply actions
F
I graded it an F b/c as long as Mike Brown is running the team, these players will leave for greener pastures eventually anyways. Now if Brat leaves I’ll give it a D-.
All kidding aside, I can’t grade this draft class b/c of the losing. It’s hard to judge b/c what do we have next year to look forward to?
Bengals get graded on a curve...
I give them an A+ for this class. They hit on their 1st 3 picks and look like they have something in Atkins in the 4th. For the Bengals, this is reamarkable. Seriously, go back and look at the previous years draft classes and you’ll feel great about how they came out of this one.
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