When The Yes-Men Say No
by Mojokong on Dec 16, 2010 4:00 PM EST
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PrintThe unraveling of the Cincinnati Bengals is firmly underway as Terrell Owens is no longer holding back his criticism of the organization, and now Carson Palmer himself is envisioning playing elsewhere next season. Chad Ochocinco admitted that he's been desensitized to losing and Marvin Lewis has officially become the other shoe which dangles in the breeze. Once Marvin falls, expect a wave of personnel to run away too as the stability—as fragile as it is now—would become completely nonexistent. This is a team that is charging toward disarray. The glamorous facade of this year's Bengals, dressed up and fancy as they come, has shown to have poor structural integrity and is collapsing as we speak. Shameful.
I'm proud of Carson for answering honestly though. For the first time ever, he has flexed his power position within the organization, effectively applying pressure on ownership. It reminds me of when the younger gorilla does a little chest-thumping to the old silver-back to prove rank in the band. All that's left are statements that end with "or else" and we got ourselves a rootin-tootin showdown to write about this winter and spring.
In most organizations—especially bad ones—it's unusual for a quarterback to have such a power-share of the team, but we know Mike Brown needs him for a variety of reasons and most of those aren't about winning games. Carson is under contract, and Brown historically has not caved to trade demands, so Brown could just keep him here in football limbo and make him the quarterback of the "rebuilding" process. I think that prospect scares Palmer and now he's planting seeds to potential suitors early enough in the process to start negotiations quicker this February.
Carson has also raised questions of leadership and team interest by admitting that he could see himself in another uniform next season. He was chewed up by media everywhere after last week's debacle and the city has venomously turned on him over the course of the season—myself included. He probably feels somewhat abandoned and wrongfully vilified by a community and fan base that he worked hard to please, on and off the field. Getting booed for the rest of his career here would be a dismal future; wouldn't you rather leave too?
That is the beauty of his statement. It not only opens the door for new opportunity, but it rather forcibly shoves one through it. Now he can play the remainder of this year as an audition to the rest of the league. Hopefully he goes rogue and calls whatever he thinks will make him look the best. Each guy in the huddle should get to run their favorite play at least once a game for the rest of the year. Let's get silly, why not?
Finally Carson Palmer's hint at team dissent should make the whole apparatus come down. Without Palmer, I can't see Marvin staying on board and laboring through the entire process over again in that same working environment. Unless he doesn't mind losing or working within the small confides of Mike Brown's operation, then he should stay and average six wins a year, but we know he does mind both of those things, so it seems there is no good reason he should stick around.
Once Marvin goes, the public will tear into Brown with stern demands of organizational change and I'm afraid it will get very ugly. Anti-Mike Brown rallies on Fountain Square and Paul Brown Stadium, empty season-ticket sections, nine blackouts next season, an influx of Cleveland Browns fans to the area, my God! In what should be a happy little football valley, instead has the darkened skies and scorched earth of a wasteland. To all free-agents to be: stay away from this place. It will ruin you too.
So like the musicians on the Titanic, the players will carry on for three more games, pack their bags and, if they're still under contract, sink into the abyss. The fortunate others will cram into lifeboats and paddle their way to other teams, but even now, this ship is going down fast so they had better hurry. Here's to the good times; remember them well.
Mojokong—we knew this day would soon come, but how strange it all is now that it's here.
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Carson is still one of my favorite players.
I want him to go to a team that appreciates him. A team where he has a shot at a ring, preferably.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
hes probably stuck in cincy
he is signed through 2014 on a huge contract. Only way he moves is if the Bengals trade him, and I doubt there are many teams that want him at his current price tag. So the Bengals could move him if they eat some of his salary, but then that is wasted money.
Furthermore, the Bengals don’t even have a decent backup quarterback. Meaning that after they trade Palmer, they would be relying on what? Jordan or O’Sullivan? And a rookie?
no cap year
they can cut him w/out any salary implications and it’s if his contract never existed. Of course they wouldn’t get anything in return if they did that.
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
Slow your roll
Wasn’t the jist of that conversation:
Reporter: Can you see yourself with another team next year?
Palmer: Yeah, maybe. It’s a business.
?
If there was more to it, pardon me, but it’s hardly a Carson Palmer power play. He’s answering a question…truthfully. And most likely, it’s not going to be his call. Terrible play and no hit on next year’s cap puts him on the shit end of the stick, not the driver’s seat.
2-14 or 3-13 will
I read Carson’s statement as stating the obvious. He’s a USC guy, so he’s not entirely dense. He pretty much knows his days as a starting QB in the NFL are probably numbered. After his last few years no team is going to hand him the keys to the starting offense.
But lets not rejoice too much about the impending changes. Its likely to get ugly in ways only Mike Brown can be proud of. As in 1 to 4 wins a year for a few years. Just like before.
Mike Brown won’t change his business or his ownership model, so we’ll get the same results as before.
For us fans, its back to late night butt of jokes. Sport Center highlight of our low lights.
Total avoidance by quality free agents. Total avoidance by the networks.
One wild card is the new draft compensation system. The current model made the number 1 pick a curse to the winning team. Its un-tradeable and way too expensive. If the cost is capped to a reasonable level in the new agreement, what is to stop a top notch player to say “I’ll never play for the Bengals!!!!!!!” ? This might force the Bengals to work a trade down in a new draft market that is much more trade friendly.
I’m tired of all the Palmer bashing
I recall 1977-1980 Ken Anderson. While his stats in ’79 weren’t that bad, they were pretty bad in the ’77, ’78, and ‘80 seasons. Those were years 7-10 in Anderson’s career. ’81 was his MVP year.
Of course, I also remember the Bengals choosing Jack Thompson with their first pick in the 1979 draft and that Thompson got every opportunity to win the job with the available PT in 1980.
Anderson’s low point was ’78, his 8th year (7th as the starter), where he threw 10 TDs and 22 INTs and the Bengals finished 4-12.
2010 is also Palmer’s 8th season (7th as the starter), perhaps the Bengals will draft another 1st round QB and perhaps that will lead to Palmer’s resurrection.
I still think Palmer has a lot left in him. I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if he left/was let go, and turned in at least another Pro Bowl season with another team.
Heck, I remember Anderson’s fellow 1971 draftee Jim Plunkett and how he fell from grace in both New England and SF before leading the Raiders to a pair of Super Bowls.
There’s a lot wrong with this team right now, and Palmer isn’t the biggest problem.
by PeteRoseJr on Dec 16, 2010 6:21 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
They're eerily similar when you put it that way...
Very interesting post.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
In fact
1981 started with Ken Anderson throwing 3 picks in the first half of the opening game against Seatle. Turk Schonert came in and eventually led the Bengals back from a 21-0 deficit for the win. Everyone wanted Anderson benched. Fortunately calmer heads prevailed and Anderson went on to get MVP and lead the bengals to the SB.
Anderson had three season ending injuries in his career. One such injury was actually cheered in his own stadium. There are some similarities with KA and CP in this regard and how fans of this city are quick to give up on known talent. Anderson’s good years were when he had a good O-line and good OCs. Carson is the same. A good O-line, a reliable running game, and Offensive coaches that are ahead of the curve instead of stuck in the mud and non adaptable would go a long way for carson to return to form.
"When you chart (the plays) and see where it broke down there was no common theme to it." - Bob Bratkowski
agreed with this
palmer right now is just a league average NFL QB. I think it’s mainly that people are disappointed. They were expecting a HOF type QB after 2005 and it never panned out. He’s played like an average QB these last two years, but QBs have up and down swings, no reason to think he won’t put together some pro bowl type seasons in the future.
PeteRoseJR misses one little difference
Carson Palmer is making around $12 million next year and $50 over 4 years. No team can long endure play like Palmer’s at that price tag. I doubt that Kenny ever commanded inflation adjusted money like Palmer’s.
I don’t see how the Bengals can afford to draft a QB at number 1 or 2 in the draft and still afford to keep Palmer. They could afford to carry 2 highly paid QB’s back in the day because they were much cheaper employees.
My hand is not rapidly approaching my face.
Instead, my face is coming into quick embrace with my desk.
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
by Doc Scratch on Dec 16, 2010 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
State of the Bengals
Sorry to say, the Bengals are on their way back to the past what was known as the lost decade of the 90,s. Mike Brown doesnt care what any of us think and I just dont understand why you guys want to back this team as it is destined to lose 9 to 10 games a year. Dont give me this I am a fan crap. Look at what you write out in your posts. Your dejected,frustrated, mad, disappointed and any other adjective you can think of. Why put yourselves through it? Why , because Brown will move the team? So what, he cant move it until after 2014 if I,m not mistaken. Piss on that man, I wouldnt give him a dieing breath, because he surely wouldnt me. I dont get it, you can watch from afar, you dont have to donate money to him. And thats all your doing, making his fat nest egg, FATTER. A person can only take so much, and Ive reached mine. I will come in here and see what people are saying, but I will not give him (Brown) another nickle of my money. I will donate to get his ass out, but thats it.
by James Schmid the great on Dec 16, 2010 9:06 PM EST reply actions
No he can't move the team until 2030.
His contract ends then. Although he probably would try and move it in 2028. He’ll pay the 2 years of rent just to move.
Yea and in 2028 if he's still alive than I'm shooting myself.. LOL
No but seriously how will I erase my stripes tattoo if the Bengals aren’t in Cincinnati in 2028?
by JamesShively on Dec 16, 2010 9:20 PM EST up reply actions
brown would be like 90 in 2028
even if he was still alive, I doubt he’d be managing the team. All this mike brown hatred is silly too. I doubt he will run the team much longer.
He has talked about renegotiating with the city
if they will shorten the lease to end in 2017. I wish he would just sell the team to someone who wants to win. I would rather root for a winning LA Bengals team with a motivated owner than go through yet another 30 years of this.
by BonnieBengal on Dec 18, 2010 9:11 AM EST up reply actions
I live here and
with all the time and money spent by myself and the other tax payers, that would hurt us greatly. But the “county” has turned down his offer and did so rapidly. Like in the same day. They basically told MB to shove it. MB actually came out and said that he was trying to help the county out. Yeah right! You should have seen the deal he proposed.. That was as crooked as the last one he signed.
Sorry
I can’t bash on Carson. The guy makes alot of money we know. I think he truly wants to win. He has not bashed this pathetic organzation when at times he could. I honestly feel he is trying to hard to take this franchise on his shoulders. No matter what happens i wish him the best. I’m afraid with Mr. Brown in control, we will see another good persons career filled with regrets. Mike Brown doesn’t care as we all know. I feel sorry for whomever we draft next year, that has to be thier worst nitemare.
Yep
"When you chart (the plays) and see where it broke down there was no common theme to it." - Bob Bratkowski
Interesting note
Bleacher report has a slideshow of the 50 most overrated QBs.
Ken Anderson 36
Carson Palmer 32
Boomer Esiason 24
I’m not necessarily giving credence to this slideshow but I do find it funny that there are 3 Bengals QBs.
I like Carson and he might not have bashed the organization but remember they are paying him a lot of money. Would you bash your employer if you are being paid like that????
by sgiridharan1982 on Dec 16, 2010 11:25 PM EST reply actions
That entire article was terrible
Unitas is one of the most overrated of all time. What a hack
by Throw the ball on Dec 16, 2010 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
Im tired of ppl ignoring CP9's play
Let’s be real Carson sucks right now he’s lost us 2 games this year off of terrible picks, I was pro carson until this year.. he had a shaky year last season but we blamed it on injuries ad players now he has the players and still makes dumb moves and he’s going to hold our team hostage with his salary…CUT HIM ASAP..I cant believe people are saying cut TO and keep Carson..last time i checked TO was 2nd in pro bowl votes and carson was 1st in pick 6’s.. He’s done the Carson Palmer Era is over, Im tired of people making excuses for him he’s not an elite qb anymore, 2005 is done its 2010 now guys time to move on…I don’t want to strap our team financially to Palmer he doesn’t deserve Peyton Manning money for Jake Delhomme play.. thats highway robbery..He threw more TD passses to the Steelers than Big Ben did last week, Im Done.. I made a post 2 yrs ago saying the Bengals should sign Mike Vick and people called me crazy.. who wishes we had him now?
PS
Sam Bradford has a better QB rating than CP9 He’s the 24th ranked QB in terms of passer rating: http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating/year/2010/seasontype/2
Your an idiot!
If you would like I can explain the decline in Palmers play, which is all do to the O-line and offensive scheme. Just another unintelligent football fan who knows crap about football. You should prolly go post on PFT because there are plenty of people who like to comment on something they know nothing about. I bet you voted for Obama too. Jerk off
three things wrong with your comment
1. Calling someone an idiot and following up with writing “do” when you meant “due” and then saving time by typing “prolly” instead of "probably.
2. Bringing politics into a football discussion.
3. Name-calling. Are you six years old?
If you can’t bring better stuff than this, please don’t bring anything at all.
B. Clifton Burke
And Obama was brought up because like his statemnt,
most people who voted for him were ignorant people who didn’t know why they were voting for him.
As for me I agree 100% Diesel - well except for the "Jerk off" part
I think that weakened your argument and the Obama reference, though I agree with you regarding it, allowed others to cloud the issue. IMO, the first sentence alone would have been a stronger post.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
"Can't we all just get along"??
Yes, the idiot comment is insulting and way out of line. I think simply ignoring comments like those of Diesel2405 will carry more weight. At first (giving it the benefit of a moments notice) I was thinking he is an intelligent person using this platform for a different agenda, but giving after giving it 2 minutes of thought I now believe he is just a person angry at life and lashing out in the only place he’s relatively safe. God knows he wouldn’t do it openly in public under the threat of immediate physical retribution.
So if we simply ignore his comments by refusing to respond to them, maybe he’ll start to talk football only.
"Bratkowski-- Off with his head!!!"
Whoa...
Take it easy. Obama has nothing to do with it. Palmer has to run the offense. We can blame scheme and o-line but it’s Palmer throwing the ball. No scheme is drawn up to turn the ball over.
by sgiridharan1982 on Dec 17, 2010 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
The O-line and scheme dictate where the ball is thrown.
Palmer doesn’t have time to go through all of his options and hit the open receiver which is causing him to throw to the primary receiver which in turn is leading to all the picks. When he does have time he has been unstoppable. Also brats scheme and wr routes are so god awful the defense barely has to move to cover any of the wr’s, add that to the fact there is absolutely no running game and you have 2010 Carson Palmer. Palmer is a non mobile pocket passer. If he doesn’t have time he is going to suck, same with Brady or Manning, although they excel greater because they have a competent OC who actually makes adjustments and has a good offensive scheme. If they trade or release Palmer, some smart GM with a good line will try and get him and he will be in pro bowl form once again.
With the disfavor that Palmer has been bathed in.........
I think you are absolutely correct. The QB is the easiest player on the field to make look bad unfairly. Yes, Palmer has made his share of mistakes but a lot of the things he is being blamed for probably has more to do with many other factors, particularly Oline and scheme. I respect you standing up for him in the face of Palmer hostility. On several other teams Carson would be a passing leader IMO.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
Sorry Diesel
But the O-Line didn’t dictate Palmer’s two pick six’s last week, and it hasn’t dictated all his other horrible throws this year.
For the record, I agree that if they improved the O-Line, then everything would start to look better, including the run game and Carson. But the fact is, this is the exact same offensive line that we had last year when the team was 10-6. The big difference has been Carson’s play.
This is our year!
by Paul Cannon on Dec 18, 2010 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
Im back..
I have no idea about football right? If offensive line plays such a huge role in QB play then why are qbs that have been sacked more than Carson still putting up better numbers? I guess Aaron Rodgers had a line last year right? I guess Rapistberger did too right? How bout u look @ the espn stat link and look at how many other QBs in the league have been sacked way more than Palmer.. Phillip Rivers has already been sacked 32 times to Carson’s 27 and he’s on track to break Marino’s record… And P.S. you probably voted for Bush hahaha.. I would murder you in any debate about sport thats why u didnt have any explanation to your argument but you called me the idiot.. lol next time bring some actual points to the table or think about changing your nae from Diesel to Unleaded
PS our line has nothing on the Bears
and yet Cutler QB rate is 9 pts better than Carson’s and he Cutler sucks and has absolutely no WRS in CHI and has already been sacked 43 times… make up another excuse
Soap Opera in Cincinnati
and the beat goes on and on…It hasn’t changed, it won’t change and it can’t change, as long as Mike Brown controls this franchise. M Lewis has been Bengalized. Brat’ may have been born Bengalized. C Palmer has become Bengalized, possibly with his injuries at QB serving as a catalyst for his metamorphosis. Finally, it’s possible that Ochoman has finally turned the corner on full-Bengalization. The one holdout is, and may for all eternity be, TO. Anyway, from what i was able to garner from the Wednesday Transcripts at the Bengals’ official website, C Palmer did a good job of being the “politically correct” team spokesman, again and again…
by Fair weather fan on Dec 17, 2010 8:14 AM EST reply actions
You deserve whatever you are willing to put up with.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
despair
over many of carson’s picks this year. just bad, bad picks. from new england to pittsburgh. there were also some killer errant throws in the jets playoff game last year. strangely off target passes. so you have a qb who throws into coverage like a rookie and a qb who has a wild arm. this is not good.
by andyfrombrooklyn on Dec 18, 2010 11:53 AM EST reply actions
despair
over the wasted opportunity of this year. a 10-6 team has a great draft and picks up great free agent. offensive weapons all over the field. the result is eleven straight losses. the coach has to be fired. it is mandatory. it is common sense. there is no excuse.
by andyfrombrooklyn on Dec 18, 2010 11:56 AM EST reply actions
kenny anderson 1979
not much of a supporting cast. nothing.
by andyfrombrooklyn on Dec 18, 2010 11:58 AM EST reply actions
kenny anderson 1981
collinsworth, pete johnson, kreider, montoya, dan ross…
forrest gregg
by andyfrombrooklyn on Dec 18, 2010 12:00 PM EST reply actions
but i agree that the carson pick against tampa was obama's fault
last week i blame the first on carson and the second on obama.
by andyfrombrooklyn on Dec 18, 2010 12:02 PM EST reply actions
haha
We elect one Democrat and the entire Bengals organization takes a nose dive. Go figure.
This is our year!
by Paul Cannon on Dec 18, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
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