Mock Offseason (REC THIS) V1.1
by C Byers on Dec 17, 2010 2:47 AM EST
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First off I say rec this because I rather have one of these posts, and everyone comment their own thinking of what they would want to do. That way we don't flood the fanposts. So anything from Mock Drafts and Off season signings talk about what you want here.
It's up to you, do it the Mike Brown way, or do it your way but just share your opinion.
Well here's what I want. And since I'm so nice I won't charge you for my opinions like the guys at ESPN Insider. :)
Walk List:
Cedric Benson
Jon Fanene
Dhani Jones
Reggie Kellly
Evan Mathis
Jordan Palmer
Roy Williams
Denis Roland
Terell Owens
Gibril Wilson
(I'm not going to do deal with all the RFA's)
Tag- J.Jo
Resign:
Dan Skuta
Brian Leonard
Chinedum Ndukwe
Quan Cosby
Sign and Trade Chad (instead of just paying him 3.5 to leave).
For a 4th round pick. (If an aging Moss is worth a 3rd than Chad's worth a 4th)
Use our 6th yr option on him and trade for a pick to the Cardinals (naming a radom team with WR need).
I'm indifferent what to do with palmer, too many options.
Free Agent Signings: (nothing big)
Jacoby Jones WR Texans
Michael Bush RB Oakland
Draft: I used Drafttek.com to draft these players, there was a full simulation before my pick came for each round, here's who I took out of the available players. REDRAFTED V.1.1
1 Cam Newton QB Auburn
2 Allen Bailey DL Miami
3 Ben Ijalana OG Villanova
4a Marcus Gilchrist FS Clemson
4b Ronald Johnson WR USC
5 Casey Mathews LB Oregon
7 Allen Bradford RB USC
Thats just me. Tell me what you guys would like to see happen?
---
Why it's possible to draft any QB in the first round. The new CBA is working on capping what rookies can make. Last year's 3rd overall pick Mccoy (though a DT) is making 63 mil for 5 yrs. There's about a 90% chance that the rookie salaries will be restricted by the next draft. So financially the bengals could afford to sit a QB for a year.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors.
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I'd like to see us retain Fanene and TO
Not sure on Newton – not whether or not he may be a valuable player, but drafting him with a top 5 pick might be overdrafting. If we can’t get Luck, I’d say trade down a little to get Newton and maybe another 2nd round pick.
I like drafting a guard and DT, but unsure about Pouncey’s size as an OG. His brother is a good center, but I often see him get manhandled too easily by bigger DT’s.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
Why would you let both Chad and T.O. walk, only resign one WR (and not even a big one at that), and then do nothing in the draft about it until the fifth round?
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
A WR corps of:
Jerome Simpson
Andre Caldwell
Quan Cosby
Jacoby Jones
Jordan Shipley
Vincent Brown
is not going to scare anyone.
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
by Doc Scratch on Dec 17, 2010 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
We have 2 wins this season with Chad and TO as our starters
does it really matter whether we have one/both/neither of them next year? I would rather build our O-line and D-line than feel like we have to do something at WR.
by Peko94 on Dec 17, 2010 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
While I'm usually the guy saying build the lines first..
let’s not cripple ourselves in the process, eh? You have them dropping their 2 best receivers, their road grader tight end, their only consistent tackler in Dhani Jones, and three linemen that shouldn’t be starters but are cheap and very good to have as backups.
There’s chaff on the roster. Jerome Simpson, Andre Caldwell, Roy Williams, Frostee Rucker.. and others that might need to go depending on their salaries. I’d focus on bringing in a new QB (if not a new starter than at least someone that can challenge Palmer and make him show improvement in order to keep the job), beefing up the o-line, and finding a couple safeties. Ideally find someone in the draft like Troy Polamalu, but that’s obviously not something you can just go out and do, especially without a real scouting department.
Keep Chad & Dhani, they both are getting up there a little bit but they continue to produce. Dhani is a very solid MLB. Chad can light up anybody if Carson bothers to throw his way, he doesn’t even need to be very accurate.
Keep Reggie Kelly, he’s basically a 6th o-lineman that can catch. The two tight end set is a good thing for a team that has line issues, and the Bengals have the receivers to do it in both pass and run situations.
by indesignkat on Dec 18, 2010 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
i disagree about Dhani
he sucks and is a complete liability in pass coverage, he gets routinely burned 2-4 times a game (usually by a TE) over the the middle….did it again yesterday. i’m ready for Much or Rey in the middle….see ya Dhani, more time to “not” tackle the globe.
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
I don’t get the hate for Dhani. They haven’t replaced him with Rey at MLB because Rey isn’t as good a tackler and tends to overpursue a lot. Maybe Dhani sucks in coverage, but he’s excellent against the run and is a fairly decent pass rusher for a MLB.
the key is intelligence
is Rey or Much smart enough to play the middle?
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
Kelly
not a full endorsement on him. while i like the double tight end set, when we throw to Kelly, the ball only goes a handful of yards. If wefind a solid TE in free agency who will play with tenacity, then I’ll be a happy guy.
Other than that, I agree
Heeeeey, Ochocinco, he's a good guy, no?
There's so much wrong with this.
It’s like saying the Falcons are 11-2 with Michael Jenkins as a starter.
It’s like saying the Jets are 9-4 with Vernon Gholston as their starter.
It’s like saying the Panthers are 1-12 with Jon Beason as their starter.
It’s like saying the Bears are 9-4 with their starting OLine.
It’s like saying the Cardinals are 4-9 with Larry Fitzgerald as their starter.
If you’re going to make statements like this, at least choose something that correctly insinuates who is directly to blame for this team’s losses.
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
In hindsight, this looks completely asinine.
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
Granted, it's more Bratkowski to blame than T.O.
for specifically trying to get away from our successful formula because we signed him, but y’know
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
I'll drink to that.
TO wanted his way, and Brat caved faster than anyone before him. In the past, TO had to whine and moan before the team started throwing or decided to kick him out. This year, he got his way immediately – as well as 11 quick losses.
Same old Cyanide, new look.
by Pardon_My_French on Dec 21, 2010 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
+1
I don’t understand why everyone thinks we need to completely implode the team.
re-sign Benson.
get some o and d-line help in the draft and pound the damn ball.
If we can trade Ocho then do it.
I am not sold on Newton,not even a little bit. I would take my chances with Palmer before picking him up with a top five pick.
Not picking someone on the DL in the first two rounds...
For a team that is last in the league in sacks? Then you’re letting Fanene go, maybe our second or third best pass rusher? Yea, no thanks. Then letting both WRs go for basically nothing so we have no outside threat… to me this seems like a total blow up of this team that won’t work.
If this team is really going to rebuild, it should do it slowly, and let the young guys develop.
+1
With all the help this team needs at DE, I can’t imagine letting Fanene go. At worst, he’ll be a solid backup making a modest salary.
Safety is a little tricky too because you let go two guys who have been starting safety’s in this league and replaced them with a 4th round rookie. I can’t imagine that being an improvement.
I might be alone, but I like the Cam Newton pick. I think the guy is going to be a stud – he’s an accurate passer with a big arm, who can run like a RB – remind you of anyone? But if the Bengals want him, they ought to trade down to get him. Top 5 is a reach since he hasn’t really played in a pro system, and there have been character concerns about him (not that Mike Brown cares).
And I also love the Pouncey pick. I wanted them to draft a guard last year, and there’s obviously a big need there. If I know something about twins, it’s that they don’t like it when one starts to outshine the other. Mike will come into this league with something extra to prove, and with his bro in the division I imagine him playing twice as hard against the Steelers.
This is our year!
by Paul Cannon on Dec 17, 2010 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
With the #2 Pick, Luck will probably be gone, ya gotta get Bowers
That man is the best DE prospect I’ve ever seen. Then we could pull a Baltimore and trade up to late in the 1st round (like they did with Flacco) to get Mallett or Locker or Newton cuz it’s very possible at least one will slide a bit.
by baconbitz309 on Dec 17, 2010 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
I'm with that
With the CB core we have, it would be great to get another high quality pass rusher to go along with Dunlap as the teams future
The CB core won't be all that great if Joseph walks.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
Yeah, b/c J Jo is definetly better
than Adam Jones and works well in tandum with Hall. We still need all three of them though, especially J Jo.
Maybe one of the best DEs
But have you seen suh? Kid has been dominant forever.
RIP Slim.
by brandone on Dec 18, 2010 9:48 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Crazy
You’ve got to keep Chad… when he’s on, he’s one of the best. Sadly, unless you get a 1st Rd Pick, you’ve got to keep Palmer.
Raiders aren’t going to let Michael Bush go… he’s too good and too cheap right now.
Simpson and Caldwell need to go… picking up a had working #2 to go along side Chad along with Shipley and Gresham should be sufficient.
We have to draft the next QB now… this draft has a great QB class… Newton is not the guy to draft though. That kid is going to get into trouble… you can see it happening here!
You’ve got to build through the draft here… DE, SS, FS, OL… all serious needs!!!
The young guys are going to come along… Atkins, Dunlap, Gresham, Shipley, Ghee… second year guys like Scott, Maualuga, Johnson… even Pessley… we haven’t had a bad couple of drafts if you take away Andre Smith! Why we didn’t draft Michael Oher… GEEZUS!
Is the QB class really that great?
Luck hasn’t even said he is coming out early.
Mallett is a meat-head (think Ryan Leaf), and I believe an underclassman.
Newton isn’t a prototyical NFL QB, and hasn’t said he is coming out early.
Who else is there that even might be able to start on day 1?
This needs to be a slow rebuild, done right, and done in line with what the new coaching staff wants to do. I’m going to be very upset if we don’t at least consider AJ Green though. He could be the next big name receiver in the NFL, and we have two aging WR’s in Ocho and TO. Shipley is a slot guy, always. What else do we have?
The class is deep, but without Luck it'd be short on stars
A lot of marginal starters or great backups here, some with the upside to be really good starters.
I agree Mallett reeks of Leaf-ness. Huge arm, doesn’t give a damn about leadership and isn’t all that accurate.
Newton isn’t pro-ready and isn’t a perfect passer. I’m thinking Vince Young minus the head issues, so not terrible but not a superstar. Could win games.
Locker is the opposite. He’s played in a pro system and has all the tools, but he doesn’t win. This is largely because he plays for a TERRBLE college team, but wins are wins. He might struggle with the psychology of the game, as he seems easy to rattle. Huge upside and might be ready to play early too.
There’s also Nick Foles from Arizona, Pat Devlin from Delaware, Christian Ponder from Florida St., Ricky Stanzi from Iowa, among others. These guys are all getting round 2-3 grades.
This is why I’ve personally done a 180 since the beginning of the season when I thought we should go quarterback in round 1. Usually, round 2 quarterbacks just aren’t the guys you want to bet your franchise on. But this year it’s so deep and yet star-scarce that if the Bengals have to settle on someone other than Luck, it’s likely that “their guy,” the quarterback they like the best, will be there in early round 2. However, Newton is the exception. It sounds like if he declares, he’s going in the first round to somebody. I say pass on him.
Same old Cyanide, new look.
by Pardon_My_French on Dec 17, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
Luck would be stupid not to come out this year
It seems like players don’t stay #1 two years in a row very often. Bradford was an exception, but his injury almost derailed his chance.
This is our year!
by Paul Cannon on Dec 17, 2010 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
Locker did it too.
He was eligible in 2010, and he cost himself a lot of money by staying.
I’m not saying he should stay. I’m just reading reports that he might.
Same old Cyanide, new look.
by Pardon_My_French on Dec 20, 2010 9:37 AM EST up reply actions
1 thing to consider
Luck goes to Stanford….is he the type of guy to walk away from a degree w/that pedigree attached to it? Is he smart enough/willing to graduate early w/ his degree?
I agree that he’d be dumb to stay and chance his stock dropping or an injury, but with a kid who’s that smart and goes to such a renowned school, i could see him sticking around to finish up that degree first….
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
b/c he'd have so much time
being the face of an NFL franchise right? ALOT easier said than done, and it’s Stanford….call me crazy but I bet they type of student athletes that go there value their educatioin more than most collegiate athletes…..it’s just somethign to consider
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
Another thing...
is the impending lockout. Guys aren’t crazy about going into this draft if there won’t be a season.
On the flipside, 2011 is the last draft without a rookie pay scale, I believe. That would be an incentive for the really top notch guys to come out and for the others to wait.
Same old Cyanide, new look.
by Pardon_My_French on Dec 21, 2010 10:03 AM EST up reply actions
Don't forget Locker
Locker’s a pro-style QB much like Luck but he’s having a worse year than before. And I see Mallett for like a make or break Brett Favre then an over-hyped dumbass like Leaf.
by baconbitz309 on Dec 17, 2010 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
and Favre isn’t an overhyped dumbass? I’ve never seen a qb that makes such bad decisions, aside from maybe Rex Grossman, and he’s too much of a nobody to really count. I don’t know what happened last year to make Favre suddenly turn into the guy everyone claimed he had always been for one crazy magical season, and I hate that that’s how people will remember him now, but he was never even close to that before.
Locker had been all the talk for the past couple years, and I admit I’ve never watched him play (I primarily watch big 12), but his stats are shit. Even against weak opposition he has terrible numbers. I know he’s on one of the worst major conference schools in the NCAA, but they’ve only been that bad for the past 8 or 10 years. If he can’t turn around a college team in a not-terribly-hard conference, what makes anyone think he can turn around a pro franchise that’s been terrible for decades?
by indesignkat on Dec 18, 2010 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
Pac 10 terrible...?
I don’t know if terrible is correct. Maybe the defenses, but not the teams.
Year in and year out the Pac 10 seems to be one of those great Offense / no Defense kind of conferences.
didn't say pac-10 was terrible..
said it was “not terribly hard”. Typically they’ve got USC and one other team that’s actually good, then maybe a couple mediocre ones that flirt with being in the top 25 for a week or two. They’re not in the same category as a Big 12 or SEC.
by indesignkat on Dec 24, 2010 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
So your saying
Cut the guys who are on contract?
And not get something out of chad who will bolt in a season anyways.
Sports = Money.
Offseason Moves
You have to look at value of the pick and player that meets that value and second you have to start with the offensive and defensive lines to rebuild this team, not take a skill position player such as WR A.J. Green. The only players that will be available to take this high for this value are Defensive End and Defensive Tackle positions. The #2 pick is too high for any offensive tackles in this draft and there are no Safties or Linebackers worth this high of a pick. So i can see the Bengals drafting DE D.Bowers of Clemson or DT M. Dareus Alabama or N.Fairley of Auburn. I don’t see us taking a QB or CB with this pick. A Gaurd in the second round is a great possibility since B.Williams is a FA and old he will be leaving and G N.Livings has played poorly this year. Taking a S in the third round is a good spot to draft one since this is the round they start coming off the board. I would like to see the Bengals get rid of DE R. Geather and A.Odom and MLB D.Jones for sure and draft a DE and move Maualuga to the middle.
Couple notes.
-This draft was I drafted the available players in each round, all these players fell to my pick. I thought Pouncey AND marvin austin were huge pick ups for those picks.
-Then the available wr’s at round 4 and below we’re all the same. I could have gone Greg Little if that would’ve made people feel better.
-Why let Ocho and T.O. go? Ok what happens if we keep them next season? we go 8-8? You need to rebuild the wr corps, you have Simpson and Caldwell under contract just keep them. No big name FA’s will want to come to cincy but a solid #2 Wr Jacoby Jones will be available. T.O. came here to ring chase, why would even want to come back?
The safety situation, We have Crocker still and I think you need to draft another safety early. I don’t know how gibril healed up if he’s fine I’ll take him back. But Roy’s time is coming to an end.(Though I do like him)
The D-line has started coming alive once dunlap got into the line up as well as the rest of the DL. I wouldn’t go too late in the draft for DL, but I went best player available in 2nd. Then with Fanene the thing is, I like him, but the issue is we have many DE’s already and the word is he wants a starting job somewhere else in the league.
Sports = Money.
why not give Fanene the starting job opposite of Dunlap?
Do you think Geathers and Odom (not to mention their salaries) are better than him?
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
Idk
You got those guys already on contract and you HAVE to have money ready for J-Jo’s contract.
I think Odom = Fanene talent wise now
it’s more at a point of balancing the funds for future building so we can be a serious contender again in 2 seasons
Sports = Money.
that's why I'm thinking let Odom and also maybe Geathers go
with their salaries. Unless there’s a lot of unfront money we paid for which we’d be essentially losing. Or Fanene suddenly demands a lot more money, which I doubt would happen (or at least wouldn’t require as much as Geathers or Odom).
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
I think a few things
Fanene is a perfectionist, and I honestly think he will want a decent check.
Odom and Geathers but prolly screw up cap if we cut them both at least.
Sports = Money.
He can want a big check all he wants
But his six sacks last year and going on IR this year are going to limit his options.
Supply and demand.
RIP Slim.
by brandone on Dec 18, 2010 9:51 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
and then how many this year?
0. it’s a what have you done for me lately league and he did nothing this year. i still want to keep him, but he’s not going to get a big contract for one decent season.
RIP Slim.
Why the hell would I ever want to keep Caldwell and Simpson?
Caldwell’s terrible and Simpson’s been even worse since he can’t even beat Caldwell out. Why would you hand them the future of our franchise at receiver?
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
i think they both held their own yesterday
i saw this comment is from the 18th, anything you’d like to add or detract?
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
Quite a lot, actually.
Though I want to see them against the Chargers’ league-leading pass defense, they looked good and made the clutch catches necessary to make.
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
Also this:
http://www.cincyjungle.com/2010/12/17/1881393/mock-offseason-rec-this#
in response to my comment above it.
Then again, prior to yesterday, can you blame me for not having faith in them? I’m sure no one else did.
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
I feel like Caldwell might be okay if he's taken off special teams.
I’ve not seen that “most improved player” part yet. That’s what I want to see.
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
nope can't blame you at all
just wonderin if you’d changed your view of them in leui of the Battle of Ohio thats all….big ups on the honesty too Doc
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
Gotta give credit where credit is due, and those two deserved credit for making the catches when necessary.
I about spit my drink out when I saw Jerome Simpson catch a pass.
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
My very own Bengals offseason
Let Marvin go, and of course fire Bratkowski. Hire Zimmer as the head coach where he can stop trying to outsmart opponents and stick to the nitty gritty. When he keeps his guys focused on the basics, they perform the basics well. When he focuses on game strategy, his players fail at it and exhibit poor fundamentals.
Bring in Wade Phillips as the defensive coordinator to install a 3-4, moving MJ to OLB with a new draft pick, and Rivers/Maualuga/Jones/Muckelroy as the ILB rotation. Dunlap and Atkins are the ends, with Peko in the middle.
Then hire a young college guy to be the offensive coordinator. I don’t care whom. He just needs to be young, intelligent and enthusiastic – the opposite of Brat. Anything would be better than this current mess.
Keepers (in this order): Joseph, OchoCinco, Leonard, Dh. Jones, Mathis.
Let the rest of them walk, including Ndukwe, Quasby, Roland, Young Palmer, etc. Probably Benson, too. I don’t think he’s bad, but I think he’ll ask for more money than he’s worth.
Then, CUT CARSON PALMER. His trade value, I believe, is close to nil. If they can trade him for a late pick, fine. Either way, the team needs to dump his salary. This makes drafting a quarterback and signing a veteran QB high priorities. I’d suggest signing Bruce Gradkowski, Shaun Hill or Billy Volek to a deal so that he can be the placeholder until the rook is ready.
Sign a running back, too. DeAngelo Williams, Michael Bush and Jamaal Charles are all FA’s in 2011. Decent crop.
Draft: (Rd, player, position, school)
1. DeQuan Bowers, DE (3-4 OLB), Clemson
2. Jake Locker, QB, Washington. If he’s unavailable, let’s go with Nick Foles from Arizona or Pat Devlin from UDel.
3. DeAndre McDaniel, S, Clemson
After that, address interior offensive line and more secondary help. We NEED a center somewhere in this equation.
Same old Cyanide, new look.
by Pardon_My_French on Dec 17, 2010 2:28 PM EST reply actions
In other words, you're saying lets rebuild for 2012???
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
I agree we build for 2012
You cant turn a franchise around in a season. Though I don’t know if we will go 3-4.
Sports = Money.
with the lockout looming for 2011
it might not necessarily be a bad idea. Especially if we draft a rookie QB.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
actually another great point
prepare for a short season, and address some big needs.
consider this rookie QB NOW has more time to be ready to learn the offense. hand him the playbook before the strike ;) hahaha
Sports = Money.
cowboys turned the team around w/a backup QB and new HC in half a year
with the same talent….less talent at Qb actually
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
Yeah, at least have to give the team a shot in 2011. See if it was the coaching or not.
It’s hard to go from being as competitive (when Palmer was healthy) since 2004 to being this bad now.
but
kitna doesnt suck to be fair.
They also had more potential then we do after this season
Sports = Money.
I wish we could go back in time, not draft Palmer
let Kitna start another year and draft Ben the following year. Or just keep Kitna as the QB and continue building around him.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
Kitna has shown over his career
that he is definitely NOT better than Palmer. Kitna is one of only 2 or 3 guys that have as many pics as touchdowns over the course of his career.
Kitna is also the definition of
NFL Journeyman, no seriously theres a picture of him and Jeff Garcia next to the definition
Sports = Money.
by C Byers on Dec 17, 2010 7:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
well I think right now, Kitna is playing better
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
So is Ryan Fitzpatrick..........just not a fair comparison at this point. I don't think Palmer has helped his cause, but nobody's succeeding in this system.
You’ve got 2 WR and 1 RB who don’t trust the playcalling/believe in the system, 2 rookies as your next 2 options, and a sieve for an offensive line.
It’s a horrible situation.
by Grizzlyfox on Dec 17, 2010 7:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yea the OL
needs a new pair of guards.
once we change that it’s set though.
The Wr’s both need to go anyways, I’d trade chad for some value so you don’t have to pay him the 3.5 mil not to pay.
Ced can come or go, NFL RB’s are a dime a dozen. Flacor of the month if you will.
Sports = Money.
ummm....
nobody’s succeeding in this system
Kitna had a probowl year before Carson took his job. Fitzpatrick was playing with a depleted line, injured/non-motivated Chad, suspended Henry, and Chris Perry as his RB – not to mention a horrible defense. He was set up for failure.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
and of course he had to come in during week 4
so he didn’t have the preseason and first quarter of the season to develop chemistry with the recievers and get used to the system. If you remember, later that year, we started winning some games and Fitzpatrick looked good enough for Buffalo to snag him from us.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
yuhhe really got the short end of the stick with us
a little development with his mental game still there (unlike palmer) he would prolly have performed better.
remember their Steeler game the Bills WR dropped the winning TD in the endzone. Give him actual weapons he wouldn’t suck.
The thing those who say don’t go QB, you guys are forgeting, Palmers mental game is gone. And I think he’s kinda of a b****. How many times do you see him get punked by someone else. I still remember when he tried to get in some offensive lineman’s face, Whit came up to him and just put is finger in Palmer’s chest exchanged words and Palmer shut the hell up. Same thing many times With Chad, and now T.O. as well. Your starting QB shouldn’t be punked by everyone!
Sports = Money.
what????? Palmer's a b****???
I very rarely disagree with you, but you’re killing me here. I don’t remember the Whit incident you’re referring to. And I find it hard to believe, especially considering Whitworth’s solid charecter – who I know has gone out of his way multiple times to defend Palmer.
I’ll never forget Chad admitting once that Palmer grabbed him and told him to shut up in a huddle when Chad was complaining to him. I don’t think Palmer gets punked, nor do I think anyone wants to punk him.
Not to mention Palmer’s resiliency to stay in the pocket, take hits, and play through numerous injuries during his career.
Do I think Palmer’s mental game is gone? No, I don’t think he ever really had it. I trully believe defenses have figured him out and realized they can confuse him with complex coverage schemes which Palmer can’t read – instead of letting Palmer throw to his elite recievers (Chad, Housh, Henry) who were good enough to get open.
And I did see that dropped pass by Fitzpatrick’s reciever, which was one of the best thrown passes I’ve seen all season. I still don’t understand all the doubts about that guy. The key to a QB is his ability to read defenses, not his arm – which is why I’d rather have a Fitzpatrick or a Kitna. If you remember, Kitna, coming in for the first time all year, almost beat the Superbowl champs that famous game.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
*good enough to get open on man-man coverage
in regards to his elite recievers.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
Yea
I’ll dig for a link for a link to cite it, but the Whit and Palmer thing occurred during the Jet’s playoff game last season.
And buy punking I mean Chad has gotten the better of Carson on many occasions sure Carson may keep in line here and there. But ones the man and ones the B****, which one do you think is which in their relationship. I feel his leaderships gone now. And his game decisions just flat suck now.
Sports = Money.
You may view that as a sign of dominance
I view it as lack of class and maturity. The same crap went on between TO and McNabb. Do you think McNabb is a b****?
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
if Kitna was so great
how come he didn,t win that playoff game against the Steelers after Carson was mamed.
"When you chart (the plays) and see where it broke down there was no common theme to it." - Bob Bratkowski
I didn't say Kitna was great
I was pointing out that Kitna was not a bad QB. And losing a close one to the Superbowl champs, to include a halftime lead, during your first game in over a year doesn’t mean you suck. If you remember, we split the games during the regular season, so Palmer also had lost to them.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
That’s obvious.. watch the game.
For the remainder of the first half Kitna played extremely well and the Bengals took and kept a solid lead. At halftime the Steelers did what they always do, make solid adjustments for the 2nd half, while the Bengals did what they always do, nothing. For the entire second half the Steelers rushed 2-3 guys and kept everyone else in coverage, leaving Kitna running around in circles trying to find someone open. When the Bengals did bother to run, the three short-mid coverage guys and Polamalu all came up and obliterated the runner.
The fact that the Bengals got and held a lead after Palmer went out is a testament to the ability of Kitna and the few other players that didn’t immediately give up. Most of them looked just like Marvin, who was on the sidelines with a look on his face that made it clear he was ready to go home.
that moment, seeing Marvin’s face like that, was when I started to lose faith in him. There’s still a little bit left, but only just.
by indesignkat on Dec 22, 2010 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
Well, I'm guessing that you won't need to worry about your faith in ML after this season
What odds do you give him for returning? I’d say 10-1
This is our year!
by Paul Cannon on Dec 23, 2010 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
about 3 weeks ago
Joe Reedy said 30%. Right now I’ll guess 20% (he did get a win finally)
Hopefully my picture doesn't show my bias.
enough about Kitna
he blows. His most effective play was the Red Zone Pick…..great guy, great “mentor”, good backup. Nothing more.
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
This specific system. No one is succeeding in THIS system. This year.
And technically you make my point. Fitzy was set up for failure here. So was Palmer this year once things went south. I’d imagine it happened during the Panthers game, that was supposed to be the big breakout game, but it didn’t happen. Tensions started mounting during the Browns game.
#$%# blew up after Tampa. Ced was pizzed he wasn’t getting carries. TO gave up on a pass late, probably b/c he thought the game was in the bag. That was probably the tipping point. That’s when trust was lost, and this team has just done dumb stuff consistently since that playcalling to end that game. No faith.
And w/ hindsight, I'll say this,
maybe they should’ve just kept Coles. Probably a more competitive team w/ more commitment to the run, more guys staying in line and doing their job.
How about we wish this organization would have invested in the talent to protect Palmer?
Or do you forget how good he used to be.
by Throw the ball on Dec 18, 2010 10:33 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And Brat twice experimenting with no Fullback in his offense
If 2008 wasn’t enough to show the Bengals brain trust (I use that term loosely) that that doesn’t work with the current scheme/personel then the Coaching staff should be fired…… oh wait…. yeah they should be fired.
"When you chart (the plays) and see where it broke down there was no common theme to it." - Bob Bratkowski
yesterday we had a fullback throughout the game
and all the sudden our run game goes off! weird huh Brat….
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
We turned it from 10-6 to 2
RIP Slim.
by brandone on Dec 18, 2010 9:53 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
We turned it from 10-6 to 2-10
Why can’t we go back again?
People are underestimating injuries and identity.
RIP Slim.
by brandone on Dec 18, 2010 9:54 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
we can turn it around
in 2008 and 2010 we had a ton of injuries and bad records
in 2009 our injuries were cut back and we won the division
there is enough parity in the nfl that injuries can easily turn an 11-5 into a 5-11. they are the difference between a close win and a close loss.
BUT….the Bengals are likely losing a lot of people off this year’s team…
it could be a case of
addition by subtraction. they will have to replace those guys and they can’t do it by draft alone. they need to bring a leader to this team in one way or another.
RIP Slim.
Carsons dream – Any team in Cali
Chads dream – Dallas under the spot light ALL the time
It’s hilarious we have these guys stuck in Cincinnati!
My 2 cents
Obviously, there is labor uncertainty so for this exercise I am going to assume the cap and franchise tag rules won’t vary drastically from the old CBA. I also assumed the draft order is what it is today with Cincy getting the #2 pick
Hire Hugh Jackson to HC, keep Zimmer at DC and hire an OC that is a QB guy. To be honest, I wouldn’t mind McDaniels.
Trade Chad to Washington for Hayesworth (some draft picks both ways may have to be thrown in too). I know Albert is a bum but Cincy plays a 4-3 so he will be happy. He’s a malcontent, but not the loudmouth kind and I think Zimmer could deal with him. He fits the type of guys MB brings in.
Franchise Joseph. Let TO walk. Cut Odom. Let Dhani go because of his age.
Free agents to target include OL, LB and DB depth. Also a #2 potential WR (Jacoby Jones type would work). I’d sign Benson, but if he wants too much money, then Bush or another FA RB with some promise. If they solidify the OL interior, production at RB should increase no matter who it is.
With number two pick, take AJ Green. I do like Bowers and Peterson and have no problem if they go with one of them, but the idea is to solidify the pass catchers for years to come with Green, Shipley and Gresham. Figure Palmer would have 1-2 seasons then the next guy would have some tools in the shed to go with. In the second round, I’d go with a highly rated interior OL, like Pouncey or Moffit. Third pick I would trade so I could add a couple picks in rounds 3-5, and take a young QB to groom and D front seven depth. I think there are solid safeties available in the second half of the draft in rounds 4-7.
Now the controversial part. Keep Palmer. Try to sign a Marc Bulger type to be a backup (former decent starter who is now a journeyman) and let the young drafted QB compete with LeFevour for 3rd QB.
I’d keep Geathers too unless his contract hinders the cap. I like him as a good run stopping DE.
by Cedric Benson Boat Party on Dec 17, 2010 6:23 PM EST reply actions
for the record
If Luck is in the draft and Cincy has the #1 pick, I draft Luck and try to trade Palmer to an NFC team for the best deal I can get.
by Cedric Benson Boat Party on Dec 17, 2010 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
all reasonable.
Personally i chose jacoby because he could be a solid # 2 WR for the future.
Not a fan of the AJ Green pick, but Just like how I want Cam, You want Green so let’s not get into it :D haha
Sports = Money.
I could get on the Newton bus if he ends up a Bengal. I compare him to a cross between Roethlisberger and Vince Young, solely because of what those guys do on the field. They don’t look like Manning, Rivers or Brady, but they win.
I do like Jacoby Jones, but I don’t see Houston giving him up. Either way, I’d like to see them make some big changes to the WR corp that set it up for a few years and not just a ‘band-aid’ fix by signing a TO or even Randy Moss next season.
by Cedric Benson Boat Party on Dec 17, 2010 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
Yea if we could get a #2 from really any team
I’d be happy.
Newton just seems to win, and is the black big ben. lol
Sports = Money.
Just a reminder to everyone
Rec this fanpost so we don’t have to worry about 18 of these popping up at once.
Sports = Money.
NON-QB Mock
We all know I’m not only on the Cam-Wagon, I’m basically driving it.
So I figured to show my sanity I’ll take a mock w/o a QB. I’m pulling drafttek back out. Take our current picks and go through.
1 Nick Fairley DT Auburn
2 Michael Floyd WR ND
3 Ben Ijalana OG Nova
4 Rahim Moore FS UCLA (He dropped you take him)
5 Casey Mathews LB Oregon
7 Greg Little WR NC (He was here heck yes if he was here we draft him)
Sports = Money.
i've seen a lot of the "experts" mock drafts
that have moore going in the very late 1st. the kid is a little soft against the run, but has great coverage skills. how he lasted until the 4th is beyond me.
RIP Slim.
Oh man.
I like this draft way more than the one in the fanpost. It covers way more needs.
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
i like that Casey Matthews pick....to replace Rivers or Dhani
leaving Rey,Muck,Matthews as our core (maybe w/B.Johnson starting instead of Muck or Matthews) w/possible MJ or Vincent Rey filling in holes.
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
torn between Fairley and Bowers
I think Fairley is a great DT for our defense, but we’ve got a pretty decent DT rotation (Peko, Sims, Adkins). One more would be icing on the cake, but we need more cake. At this point we’ve 1 good pass rushing DE (Dunlap) and could absolutely use another. The problem with Bowers and Dunlap is they are not great against the run.
Right
and if we have a superior interior rush/run stop ability the out side rush will improve by extention.
"When you chart (the plays) and see where it broke down there was no common theme to it." - Bob Bratkowski
Sorry, I know I sound like a broken record
But none of this matters if we have the same offensive coaches and the same crap, “I just want to make money” owner.
I just can't get excited about any new players
because their careers will just be ruined in Cincinnati.
by BonnieBengal on Dec 18, 2010 9:01 AM EST up reply actions
I gotta agree...
Aged players versus new players, versus rookies, versus who to draft, etc, etc, etc,,. None of it means beans if we have the same stupid Scouts and Coaching staff! Ineptitude breeds losers!!!
FIRE BRATKOWSKI for starters!!! I saw someone earlier post that we should bring in a young hungry offensive minded college coach as OC. I can easily agree with that! Hell, you can get someone like him from the NCAA DIVISION III winners’ circle if you want!!
Take a look at the Lance Leipold / Steve Dinkel combo at UW Whitewater!!
Or DIVISION II – Look at Curt Wiese at UM-Duluth!!
These guys know football and I’d bet they would be better at the job at the NFL level..
"Bratkowski-- Off with his head!!!"
by Law1951 on Dec 20, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
assuming Luck goes #1 (unless he has a bad pro-day and combine and falls to us), i’d sure hope we pass on Cam Newton and instead take the best D-Lineman out there or O-Lineman (if one really rises up and stands out above the rest).
I’d be happy with Mike Pouncey in round 2 and Marvin Austin in round 3 but there is no way they are there at those picks. They could both be gone by the time we pick in round 2.
Why not take the attitude that the Bengals are an expansion team?
We obviously are not “one or two players away.” We need to start over (I’m not alone with that opinion). If the Bengals were an expansion team, who would they take with their first pick? Best player available, best player for our needs (which are many), or Quarterback? When building a new team, where do you start? Even if there is massive purging of coaches, and a new team ideology/philosophy put in place, wouldn’t the same questions arise? What are the building blocks?
I've said the same thing...
Dom Capers..
by JamesShively on Dec 18, 2010 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
Just going to quote myself from a different post in regards to Drafting a QB
Palmer isn’t going anywhere
History tells us that Mike Brown doesn’t have the balls to cut someone like Palmer.. Mike Brown has a man crush on Carson Palmer mark my words like or not Palmer isn’t leaving Cincinnati and we’re not drafting a QB in the first or second round..
history has actually shown
that MB drafts a QB in the 9th year of a player’s tenure. anderson and esiason both had their replacements drafted in the 9th year. both were horrible failures, but none the less, he pulled the trigger. I don’t see what’s so wrong with keeping palmer around one year to mentor the kid. at least teach him how to run a no huddle, which palmer still does very well. even his biggest haters can’t deny that.
RIP Slim.
>Keeping Palmer Around to Mentor the kid
I think the only time I’ve ever agreed with the guys saying “let’s cut palmer” is when they bring up the financial cost it is to keep him. If Palmer and his successor mean no Jonathan Joseph and Leon Hall, I will be quite pissed.
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
RE: Shively
plus Mike Brown has said on more than 1 occasion “Carson Palmer will retire a Cincinnati Bengal”….once something like that’s in his head, it will be VERY hard for him to swallow his pride (if someone coudl convince him keeping Palmer is a mistake)
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
I've already been doing an introspective analysis of what the Bengals should do this offseason.
Here’s what I think: The Bengals need to gear their offseason either for Luck or for not Luck. If they’re not getting Luck, they should not draft a QB at all. Focus on the lines, safety, and talent that will inevitably leave this offseason (WR, CB?). If they’re getting Luck, they should move Palmer and sign a decent back-up for a much better price, such as Kitna, Shaun Hill, Troy Smith, or anyone else who won’t cost a reasonable amount. There is no need to pay for two starting QBs when Jonathan Joseph and Leon Hall are both much more valuable to this team’s success.
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
assuming a QB isn't taken in the first round (anyone but luck is a waste)
I’d like them to get Fairley
"When you chart (the plays) and see where it broke down there was no common theme to it." - Bob Bratkowski
Cut T.O. he brings negativity to teams.
When T.O. left the game the bengals started playing better. I think T.O. is bad luck. T.O. cant run the right routes, he cant catch, he’s a crybaby. Keep chad, Palmer, Benson, Dhani. Make Caldwell a starter with Chad. Crazy eyes Caldwell did good last season. I think T.O. ruined the Bengals chemistry.
We're beating the chargers
2-0 after the favre streak broken lol
Hopefully my picture doesn't show my bias.
i think there's something to be said
for the fact that 11 of palmer’s INTs were intended for TO.
RIP Slim.
**Suggestion for this post
I like consolidating all the offseason dialogue on one post, but I think you should create a new one weekly, which will summarize all the comments from previous ones.
This way, this thing doesn’t get overloaded with comments. Similar to game threads.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
How about this dream scenario
Mike Brown gets too ill to carry on as GM and retires towards the end of January ([german accent]Natural? Poison? These things are hard to diagnose, ja[/german accent]). Katie makes the most of this opportunity and hires Marvin Lewis as GM conceding an indoor practice field and full control of personnel decisions, including scouting. Zimmer is interim head coach. Bratkowski has to pay for parking because the parking attendant says his pass is invalid, on his way in Jim Lippencot asks to speak to him, is then told he’s been put on waivers. Jim Lippencot then approaches a mirror and awkwardly trys to put his mirror image on waivers. Miraculously Carolina pulls a Mike Brown and takes Cam Newton 1st overall in the draft, Marvin laughs and takes Andrew Luck. Since we need a head coach now, Katie and Marvin work some blood magic and convince Jim Harbaugh to join his QB here in cincy as the head coach. Jim and John now get to play against each other 2 or more times a year in the Sibling Rivalry Bowl. Los Angeles is pissed that they can’t buy the team now, but through another magnificent use of blood magic Marvin and Katie convince LA to geographically swap the locations of the cities. Cincinnati is now located in the beautiful SoCal location that LA was squandering.
lol
There’s a man who knows how to dream.
To quote John Lennon: “You might say that I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one.” I’m with ya bro.
This is our year!
Please no to Newton in the 1st. He cannot read a defense and would not help this team. Luck should be the only QB we look at in the 1st and if we wait pray Blaine Gabbert falls. If we are getting rid of Chad and To we need a #1 so go with AJ Green. Allen Bailey isnt bad, and I like getting Casey Matthews in the 5th. Overall not bad, but I would not be a fan of the Newton pick
welp
John thornton agrees with me.
http://www.allproblogger.com/2010/12/06/a-mess-only-cam-newton-can-fix/
Hopefully my picture doesn't show my bias.
I understand
I get what you and Thorton are saying, but I would rather get a legit pocket QB who can read a defense and upgrade the O line to protect that QB and get him a legit weapon at WR. My draft would be AJ Green, Blaine Gabbert then a G. Upgrade the O line to protect Gabbert, give him a legit #1 to throw to and then add some defensive help. That is my perfect draft as of now
by ochocinco4pres on Dec 25, 2010 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
So what if the Bengals could afford to sit a QB?
I still wouldn’t take that opportunity unless Luck fell to us. There are other, bigger holes that need to be fixed. Sure, Palmer has looked like a wreck this season, but give him a decent OLine and he can be at least good (see: Sanchez, Mark).
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
So your theory is lets put off the future of the franchise
And lets just protect gimpy back there?
Hopefully my picture doesn't show my bias.
Sure.
I’m all for protecting the future of the franchise. Seeing Shipley go down with that hit against the Browns the first time scared me, and Dunlap’s great and I hope he continues to stay healthy. Gresham has had injury problems in the past but here’s hoping his knees hold up for a great career.
We have a future for this franchise. It’s just not at QB yet.
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
by Doc Scratch on Dec 25, 2010 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Palmer laughs at the people who call him "gimpy" with a nearly flawless game against the Chargers.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
Palmer needs to remember the rest of the season.
Because I do.
Hopefully my picture doesn't show my bias.
You know who's thrown more picks than him?
Eli Manning. And Manning has fumbled more, too. Do the Giants need to draft Akili Smith Jamarcus Russell Cam Newton now?
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
God dammit, Akili Smith is supposed to have a strike through it.
But you get the point.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
To be fair.
Eli Manning has a Ring,
and a better medical history.
So your just going to keep naming first round black QB’s all day? Because no matter what a good game isn’t going to make me forget he single handedly lost the steelers game?
I mean the mantra is a team loses it, but he kinda gave them 14. And the D didn’t give up a TD.
Hopefully my picture doesn't show my bias.
Really? You're going to make this a racial thing?
I was talking about guys with a ton of hype out of college who played in a dumbed down, non pro-style offense that inflated their stats and also had noted trouble with law/bad attitudes. Cam Newton runs, like, 8 plays. If you think Carson isn’t smart enough to be a QB, I have no idea why you would want Newton.
And I think Chad and TO running the wrong routes all day had something to do with the Steelers loss.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
Hell ya it's a racial thing.
You compare him to black QB busts. Noone else. So yea I kinda will say it’s seeming like it’s a tad racial.
And till Cam takes the Wonderlic I think it’s to early to say if he’s lacking in the intelligence area? Don’t you think or do you just want to go ahead and say he’s an idiot. The single season Passer rating record is hard to inflate bruh just saying.
But this argument was never bring in Cam, you made it about that. This argument is that Carson sucks. And a good game isn’t going to make me say all is well under center.
Hopefully my picture doesn't show my bias.
Ummm, I don't think he was making it racial either
sexsalad is not that type of person. He never done it here. So you thinking that his comment was is senseless..
No no im not saying he's racist or any sort of thing
I’m just sick and tired of the only comparisons some people will give are to failed black qb’s.
Hopefully my picture doesn't show my bias.
Don't blame us for the circumstances.
Name some white guys like Smith, Russell, and Newton coming out of college that turned out to be busts.
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
I mean football intelligence, not normal intelligence.
Like I said, he runs about 8 plays at Auburn with slight variations. That won’t fly in the NFL. He has inflated stats due to his system that helped him to a great college career and will raise his draft stock above where it really should be, hence the comparisons to Akili Smith and Jamarcus Russell. You could also say Ryan Leaf, but I would prefer you just didn’t take that comment in a racial way in the first place.
Anyways, what I meant by bringing up Newton is that there aren’t many people that would be worth the pick. If we actually win and fall to #9, Mallet MIGHT be worth a shot there. I’m fully on the “draft Luck and sit him for a year behind Palmer” bandwagon, but getting Luck would be unrealistic. I don’t want Mallet with a high pick because all sources indicate that he’s an idiot meathead who doesn’t care about being a leader or learning the game (very Ryan Leaf-ish.) So who do you want to draft? Luck is not a possibility.
I knew the answer would be Cam Newton, so I took the liberty of making that argument ahead of time.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
Sorry I always thought it was way to convenient that people want to call him Akili or call him Jamarcus. But yet I know fans for other teams that are basically chomping at the bits to get him. (Redskins being one).
But like I said I’m not talking who I want to replace him. The issue is Carson’s time as the FRANCHISE QB needs to come to a close.
Personally I’m looking into Jake Locker sliding to the 2nd.. Which makes me think getting last years projected 1st overall pick may be worth a 2nd.
Hopefully my picture doesn't show my bias.
How about this Draft Scenario
(disclaimer: This will never happen b/c MB won’t trade picks b/c he has mud-brain)
How about we trade St.Louis our “probably” 3rd pick for their “probably” 13th pick and another in the 3rd. This allows them to address WR (see: Mr. Green) and allows us to get out of top ten $ while still addressing a need on either O or D line, plus it gives us an additional pick…..whodey thinks that ain’t a good plan/dream?
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
Oh, you don't want to start it?
I think people kinda figured you were. I’ll quote the old one and start a new one on my own then.
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
as always
we all say “trade down and get more picks” every year, but it doesn’t happen. Most teams aren’t stupid enough to trade multiple picks for one super-expensive guy that’s more likely to fail than succeed. There are only a few Ditkas out there.
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