Carlos Dunlap Now Second Among Rookie Sack Artists
by BeerRun on Dec 19, 2010 11:27 PM EST
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PrintJust a quick note tonight as we savor a rare Cincinnati Bengals win: with his two-sack performance today, Bengals DE Carlos Dunlap is now just one sack behind Ndamukong Suh for the lead among NFL rookies, eight for Suh versus seven for Dunlap.
Just to review, Suh was the second overall draft pick. Second. Overall. Dunlap was pick No. 54.
Now, let's not take anything away from Suh: eight sacks and counting from the DT slot is worth a salute, and I will gladly give it to him. How about the DE slot? Who's the leading fellow there?
Oh. Yeah. Dunlap. The next DE on the list would be Jason Pierre-Paul of the Giants. The, um, 15th overall pick. With 4.5 sacks.
And both Pierre-Paul and Suh have played 14 games this season. Dunlap? 10.
Nothing against Marvin Lewis, but: you blew this one. I don't care how this kid looked in practice, he needed to be on the field. It probably would not have been the difference this year but it may have made it way less painful. In the meantime, for the rest of us looking for a pass rush, at least we have hope. Who Dey!
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All he needs now...
is a great nickname like Suh (Chaos N. Suh) and for me to buy his jersey for the 2011 season.
No man.
Suh’s nickname is the Suhnami (a part of Detroit’s “House of Spears” D-Line).
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
Congrats Carlos
Its a great start to proving all of those people wrong that didn’t draft you in the first round keep it up and you will be loved by all Bengals fans for finally brings the much need pass rush we have been looking for.
Bye Bye
Mr. Odoms. Hello second string Mr. Geathers.
"When you chart (the plays) and see where it broke down there was no common theme to it." - Bob Bratkowski
Opens up the draft for us.
Andrew Luck probably gone – either to Carolina or to whoever they trade the pick to. So now we don’t have to use the #2 pick on Deu’Quan Bowers. I’m still a little amazed how many people have the Bengals taking him second. Read anything about the Bengals defense lately and all they talk about is the lack of a pass rush. I’m almost ashamed to admit I’ve watched every snap of every game this year, but having done so I can say that was a HUGE problem early in the season but ever since Odom went down and Dunlap got added to the equation our pass rush has looked pretty good, and considering 90% of that is coming from 1st and 2nd year players it’s only going to be better next year.
Interesting
Kiper posted on ESPN.com that Nick Fairley is a possibility for Carolina at No.1, leaving Luck to us. I can’t read the article, b/c it’s for insiders. Anyone able to help out and get a scoop? This might be nothing, like a lot of ESPN’s overhyped draft coverage, but if there’s anything to it, that would be awesome.
Same old Cyanide, new look.
by Pardon_My_French on Dec 20, 2010 9:29 AM EST up reply actions
Kiper says Luck to Carolina....
Cincy: I note QB among needs because Carson Palmer seems as unsettled as he’s ever been in Cincy, but the Bengals need a pass-rusher, and Clemson’s Da’Quan Bowers is a perfect fit. My current No. 2 player on the Board, the guy projects as an immediate starter at the NFL level and one who will cause negative plays from Week 1.
Bowers is definitely worthy of a #2 pick.
I just think there are other options that might fit our needs better now that Dunlap is showing he can be a serious pass rush threat. The guy’s not even 22 yet and if he had been playing all year – not even STARTING but just playing on obvious passing downs like he does now – he could be in double-digit sacks and contending for ROTY. Add to that Michael Johnson is clearly better at DE than OLB. I don’t want him coming off the field on passing downs.
AJ Green is also plenty worthy of a #2 overall pick and would be a perfect solution for losing TO and probably Chad. Between Green, Shipley, and Gresham we could slug pretty much anyone we wanted in at WR and be set for a decade. Even Jerome Simpson could fill the role. Pick up a QB with the 34th pick – still a good place to get a starting QB in a deep draft like this – and you could have a revamped offense in no time.
isn't Bowers a DE?
WIth the emergence of Dunlap, I’d rather see us pick a solid DT who will demand double teams to help free up Dunlap and Fanene/Geathers/MJ. I think Tank/Sims/Atkins have been playing solidly, but not well enough to really overpower the offensive lines this year. Even Peko, IMO, is a little overrated.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
Peko is an elite DT and I don't think you've been paying attention to Atkins.
Atkins is a terror on every snap he plays. He is CONSTANTLY in the backfield. Remember his sack numbers are never going to be that high given our scheme, but Dunlap wouldn’t have half the sacks he has now without him pushing the middle of the pocket back.
As for Peko, he’s as good a 4-3 DT as there is in this league. He never gets tired, never slows down, has tremendous speed and athleticism for a guy his size – did you see him chasing down McCoy on that one bootleg yesterday? I was a little baffled when we gave him the extension a few years ago, but I’ve been proven wrong.
It may be just me
but it seems like Atkins usually starts dominating towards the ends of halfs, when the opposing o-line is a tired. I’m not sure he really is that dominating when he plays towards the beginning. As a pass rushing DT on third down situations, sure he’s a stud. But, I don’t know about him as an every-down DT, especially against the run.
My question to you is do you watch Peko? I feel like every time I focus on him, he never seems to get much penetration. And I heard someone mention the other week that he was one of the lowest rated d-linemen on the Bengals against the run.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
I don't know who said that about Peko.
But I can’t believe it’s true. He’s definitely not a pass rusher, but there’s really no such thing as an “every down DT” in the league anymore. Atkins is too small to play every snap against the run, but he’s PERFECT for passing downs, which is where he plays now. So if Peko struggled agains the run, basically all of the downs he plays, I don’t understand why he would be so highly rated by pretty much EVERYBODY. Peko is the definition of a non-flashy, consistently good DT. When you play a 4-3 you have run packages and pass packages and you rarely (if ever) find linemen who are elite at both.
As for Atkins, I dont’ think i’ve seen a sack in the last 6 weeks (aside from Pat Sims) where Atkins wasn’t a factor.
I'm not criticizing him for not having sacks
I’m just pointing out that I don’t see a lot of line penetration by him period. I rarely see the offensive line being caved in through the middle by Peko, which in turn disrupts a play (whether run or pass). I actually see Sims get better penetration than Peko does.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
You're right he probably is worthy of Denver's #2 pick.
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
i'm so happy that carlos is making a name for himself and for the rest of the d-line for this win.
but i’m reserving judgment so that i don’t fall into the justin smith trap (8.5 sacks and 2 INT his rookie year), and i think it would be smart to go after another DE high. dunlap is indicating that he’s ready to step up which only means good things to come. mike johnson is showing signs of being a fantastic role player—even though he doesn’t get many sacks, he still gets a ton of pressures and hurries. also a great sign… but there’s plenty of room for a third guy who is a threat on every down like jared allen, dwight freeney, julius peppers. if there’s a guy like that available when we pick first, why not pull the trigger on him?
granted that all depends on who’s available but still… i don’t think it’s wise to say that just because we have a few good games out of a rookie we’re set at the DE position for years to come… with that kind of thinking the new york giants may not have won the super bowl.
Part of me agrees with you,
but I’ve also seen tons of young defensive linemen take a while to develop. I think it would be wise to just let the young guys continue developing chemistry on the line. They’re miles ahead of where they were in, say, weeks 1-6, so let’s allow that to keep growing. No need to add guys to the mix. I say drop Odom, keep Geathers (good on 3rd and short situations) and allow Rucker to stay in a backup role. Get another lineman in the second or third round, but no need to grab a huge playmaker – we might already have that. Carlos was projected to go top 10 for a reason. He dropped because of character concerns.
Same old Cyanide, new look.
by Pardon_My_French on Dec 20, 2010 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly - Dunlap is basically a first round pick.
So we would eventually be paying for two first round talents at DE.
Dunlap doesn’t remind me of Justin Smith at all. Smith was a straight ahead bull-rusher. He had nothing but size and always seemed to me much better suited as a 3-4 DE. If you wanted to build an NFL 4-3 defensive end in a lab, you’d build Carlos Dunlap. Plus he’s probably not even done GROWING yet. Him, Michael Johnson, and Geno Atkins are clearly building a rapport as a unit and it’s starting to show big dividends. Keep them together and see how they develop.
That being said, I certainly wouldn’t be UPSET to see Bowers in stripes.
what I love about Dunlap is his long arms and height
which allow him to maintain separation with the lineman and see play development.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
Bowers would just add another disruptive pass rusher, which is NEVER a bad thing.
Depending on how they do, I wouldn’t mind Dareus or Fairley in the first though. That would give you a line in the future of Dunlap, Atkins, Fairley/Dareus and MJ.
I love Peko but that line would be sick.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
I'd be 100% on board for another end like Bowers
The guy is a freak of nature and I totally agree with Grooveleg that you never know with pass rushers. Plus in a 4-3 system you need to have 2 guys who can get to the QB on the ends. So Bowers could be great here… but I wouldn’t complain about AJ Green either
Dunlap doesn’t open up the draft for us he makes it tighter. The line just needs that other bookend now. A real (and consistent) pass rush will make the corners even better and protect the safeties. Bowers should be the draft pick. Dunlap will have more film on him next season and get all the doubles. Think about it and the relevance it has on the rest of the defense. A second round guard should be next followed by receivers. Another free agent safety should be brought in after that, unless we get a mid to late round steal. Build the lines and the rest will fall into place much easier.
Also, Marv has missed on not playing more than just Dunlap. Andre Smith comes to mind, as well as pulling Dhani and realigning the LB positions. Maualuga, Rivers, B. Johnson, and Muckleroy should have been the top four by mid-season. Simpson should have been getting, at least, a handful of plays throughout the season.
http://bengalsworld.com/forum/image.php?u=35&type=sigpic&dateline=1195110784
by Dr. Johnny Fever on Dec 20, 2010 9:50 AM EST reply actions
+1
I’m beginning to wonder what the hell is going on behind the scenes with Marvin and these guys. It’s not like Andre Smith, Dunlap, and Muckleroy gradually developed over the course of several games. They pretty much have hit the ground running as soon as they were given legitimate opportunities. Why did we have to wait so long for it to happen?
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
I get where you're coming from, but what could make the argument that all the development they underwent in practice helped them to "hit the ground running."
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
I get it, benching them may have helped them
but shit, we’ve been struggling with pass rushing, solid play at LB, and RT all season. Was it really worth losing a bunch of close games, arguably because Marvin was trying to develop them? And had we played them more, they may have benefited more from that as opposed to watching from the sidelines.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
Who's playing QB?
At the absolute least we need to draft a QB by the third to at least TRY to groom behind Carson, and that’s assuming we don’t trade or release Carson before then. There’s as much QB talent in this draft as you’re going to see for a while so there’s no point in waiting just because you miss out on Luck. Can’t afford another season without a contingency plan that doesn’t have Palmer on the back of his jersey.
Serious Question
D. LeFevour is going to be what? Was he projected to someday be a starter?
by TCfromDubVee on Dec 20, 2010 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
I'd love a DT.
Dunlap is going to be doubled next year. That leaves the DT one-on-one and we need a guy to take advantage of that.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
You guys are acting like Dunlap isn't already getting doubled.
I’ve seen him split more than a few double-teams in the last few weeks. He’s not slipping under anyone’s radar anymore. Let them double him. MJ and Atkins have shown more than enough to compensate on the line.
Who's that one dude from North Carolina who a lot of people mock to us in the second?
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
i was thinking
Robert Sands out of WVU tbh.
by TCfromDubVee on Dec 20, 2010 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
I'd like Pouncey.
But then again, if we move back in the first, we could get Deunta and a guard in the second. Double win.
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
It would be cool to get Pouncey.
A Bengal and a Steeler as brothers? Imagine all the trash talk…
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
I'd be happy with either Bowers or Fairley
whichever is rated higher. They’re both basically one-year wonders, which is a little concerning, but it’s nice to dream of building a strong defensive line to go with our corners.
Some guys just need to play in the game....
You’re right, Marvin – You blew this one.
by DiddyGotGrillz on Dec 20, 2010 12:13 PM EST reply actions
Maybe it was a good bit of coaching
I mean, if Marvin instilled some of that extra effort work ethic in the guy it was probably worth it
A few things...
1.) Good for Dunlap. Since he’s been in and playing a lot, he’s been making A LOT of plays. He has a great spin move AND power move. He was touted as a “boom or bust player” in the draft and though he started as a bust, he’s really booming now.
2.) Someone else mentioned this on this thread, but it boggles my mind why Dunlap wasn’t activated earlier this season. When you’re struggling in getting sacks as the Bengals are and were, why didn’t Marvin activate him in order to help that aspect? Just to “teach him a lesson”? Joke. HE IS A SECOND ROUND PICK. SECOND ROUNDERS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE IMMEDIATE CONTRIBUTORS. He did the same with Jerome Simpson and with other players by moving them to unnatural positions (Maualuga, MJ93). Sometimes guys are “gamers” and though they don’t look good in practice, they shine on game day. Just another gaffe in Marvin’s tenure as coach.
3.) I found it very interesting that when T.O. went out, not only did the Bengals run the ball better, but Carson didn’t throw any INTs and the other receivers stepped right in and played very well.
4.) The Bengals should draft either Fairley or Bowers. Help on the line is ALWAYS good. Get rid of Geathers and Odom. You’d then have either Fairley or Bowers, Fanene, Atkins, Peko, Dunlap, MJ93 and Sims. Not bad. AJ Green should be the third option.
5.) While I think they need to get another QB, whether or not they keep Carson, I think they need to take a hard look at LeFevour. Kid has a lot of tools and was a great college QB.
by Anthony Cosenza on Dec 20, 2010 12:56 PM EST reply actions
That's why you look at the kid.
No harm in looking at what you’ve already got. If he’s not deemed an NFL starter that’s why you get a veteran or draft another guy.
by Anthony Cosenza on Dec 20, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
100% agree!!!
Nothing against Marvin Lewis, but: you blew this one. I don’t care how this kid looked in practice, he needed to be on the field
"In Zim We Trust"-TennBengalfan
"You don't live in Cleveland, You live in Cincinnati"-Sam Wyche
That's just ridiculous.
If a guy doesn’t perform in practice he doesn’t play. That’s how it works, from middle school to the pros.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
Are bigger issues at LB?
Jones – another year on the clock (for me, still the most consistent LB over the season)
Maualuga – not really looking like the defensive captain in the middle you’d hope he would eventually be
Rivers – missing a lot of tackles and has been out of sorts; losing starting to take its toll?
Muckelroy – one play that made him a hero, more to come?
B Johnson – seems always to be the odd man out, but is he the best cover LB on the roster
Skuta – not a FB, we found one of them!
Vincent Rey – inactive
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