John Thornton, Willie Anderson Talk State of Bengals Franchise, Carson's Return
by Adam Morgan on Dec 3, 2010 12:29 PM EST
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PrintLance McAlister had some really interesting tidbits from John Thornton last night at Bengals Roundtable, laying out the scenarios for Carson's return or lack thereof:
John had a really interesting scenario for Carson Palmer last night on Bengals Roundtable.
He laid out the following for the off-season:
Mike Brown meets with Carson and his agent.
The Bengals ask Carson if he wants to return in 2011. That if he feels he's mentally/physically beaten down by all of this, they'd understand. If he wants out the Bengals would explore trade options with, say, the NFC West...Arizona, SF, Seattle. John said you've gotta believe the Cardinals would take Carson and his contract and give up their 1st round picke, over Derek Anderson. How about Carson reuniting with Pete Carroll in Seattle? John said if Carson wants to leave then you start over with the franchise. The Bengals would have their own Top 5 pick and another first round pick in the trade. The Bengals would make a clean break...no Carson, Chad, TO....and move on.
If Carson indicates he wants to return...the Bengals tell him the following:
The team is his. No Chad. No T.O. Carson must be the man. The leader. The face of the franchise.
He must be willing to give the Bengals more...on and off the field. He must be more vocal. He will be involved in the community. He will be on billboards. He will be Manning to Indy.
Wonder which scenario Carson would choose?
Also, some really interesting tweets from Big Willie that Lance had on his blog as well:
"I'm watching this ESPN show called Audibles. Steve Young says Bengals haven't had a strong locker room since Munoz.
Man that pisses me off! Not at Steve but at people who wouldn't let the leaders on a lot of Bengals teams lead!
If you're in power Coaches, owners GMs etc you have to have a structure where your players that care can lead team!
A lot of time leaders on those teams were told to stand down and down get on certain players becuz it would mess up Chemistry!
And in reality they only allowed those teams to be DESTROYED!
That's why you have what you have! Year in and Year out! Nooone will publicly say anything. Give fans same ole lies!
I'm mad becuz that hurt a lot of our careers. THe perception that all players there linked and grouped together!
I feel sorry for Fans becuz yall believe anything you are told! Nexy year yall will really think its gon be better!
I don't blame any players. Players do what you are allowed to do.
I just really wish I came up in a Winning Culture. Wish the young guys there now didn't have to experience this stuff!
Because it only gets worse! When will we wake up people! Some of yall really think getting a new coach, draft pick will help! Smdh
Yes Willie went off! I look at the legacy we left and its crazy! Thank God I got to experience 2008!
When Troy and Katie Blackburn take over That team will change for better! Mr Brown loves that team and we owe him a lot!
But We know what's up. I ve seen Mr Brown take guys off the street and give second an 3rd chances. Odell Chris Henry
Just some food for thought. What do you guys think?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors.
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Let's add this in there:
http://cincinnati.com/blogs/bengals/2010/12/03/anderson-gives-more-perspective-on-comments/
I think this confirms that rift that we’ve been suggesting all year.
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
this is the stuff that bugs me most about mike brown
small scouting dept, bargain budget medical staff, and lacking the infrastructure to support the team (a gm).
how hard is it to hire a guy to serve as the go between? like a thorton, anderson, or munoz to work as an assistant to the president or gm. spending their time working on the internal issues to the team. if brown insists on being the GM, then he needs someone who will work the channels for him because its apparent to even an outsider, he doesn’t and hasn’t for the past 19 seasons.
" I for one, welcome our new Buffalo overlords. " - Whokebe
they need a former player/leader in the mix
because Director of Football Operations Jim Lippincott and Director of Player Personnel Duke Tobin aren’t getting the job done.
" I for one, welcome our new Buffalo overlords. " - Whokebe
I like the thought of Carson finally become the leader we have been waiting for. Lets try to keep TO let chad walk, let ced walk and fire Marvin, Brat and most of the coaching staff. Head coach could be Zim or he should stay at Def. Coor. keep him. draft OL, DL or stud Rec first. (TO could mentor) he seems to have his head on straight. Trading Carson could work out but now were getting set back a few years. I know we can’t get any worse than we are now but at least Carson knows the Off. new Coor. could change everything. I guess we will see what happens. WHO DEY.
You do not want TO on your team longer than a year
I’m an Eagles fan. Ask the Cowturds or the Niners as well. The first year he is on the team is the quiet, productive “We love you TO” year. After that, he becomes a cancer. The Bills did it right, one year and out. Bengals would be smart to follow suit.
Currently searching for a better signature.
Let CP9 walk
A trade to Seattle or Arizona sounds good for a first round pick. JP5 leaves also as a backup to CP9. Sign Kitna as #2 and start LeFevour or a 1st round QB, Newton or Luck. Kitna is a good backup QB and has proven he can mentor and coach young QB’s like he did with CP9.
Keep Ced and get a fullback for a new running attack. Not only will this return us to a winning formula like 09, it will keep the heat off of a rookie QB.
TO has proven to me that he’s a true professional with his performance, media maturity and team play. I say keep him and Ced
A new rule for 2011 is when you enter PBS or G=town absolutely no cell phone use until you’re off the premises. Weigh-ins mandatory with fines or benchings or both if overweight. Hire better conditioning staff and get new medical staff from Cleveland Clinic, Ohio State or the top sports medical experts in the country. If you owned Zenyatta you wouldn’t call the local dog & cat vet…..get a specialist renown in the field.
New coaching blood. Keep Zim as DC with assistant head coach added to his title. Don’t think Zim is ready yet for a set-up to fail senario as HC. Dr. J. Peter wrote a book “The Peter Principle” about how someone performing at a high level as say a DC then is promoted to the next level up because of this success and the majority of the time fail as a HC for example. Dick LeBeau & Mike Singletary for instance. How about mending fences with Sam Wyche and call him back to town MB? Marty Shottenheimer?
Oh and fire Brat!!!!
there is no Newton or Luck
Its Luck or bust. What would you give up for a 20 year old peyton Manning? 3 first round picks? More! This is what we will be faced with this upcoming draft
www.fantasydaddy.com
by Joe Goodberry on Dec 3, 2010 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
My first born son for Luck
haha, seriously though, the guy is the nest GREAT QB. I’m ready to call him a HoF LOCK!
I like just about all of it.
It’s a pretty big wish list though:) Also your forgot to add we need to sign more talent on our Offensive Line and the military type of training camp/PBS atmosphere is far fetched. These guys are millionaires I doubt you can stop them from using the phone when they feel like it.
Dr. J. Peter wrote a book "The Peter Principle" about how someone performing at a high level as say a DC then is promoted to the next level up because of this success and the majority of the time fail as a HC for example. Dick LeBeau & Mike Singletary for instance
You forgot Marvin Lewis.
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
if the bengals can make the deal happen and get luck
its probably the best course for all involved. i don’t believe palmer is over and i do believe with a different system around him, one built for him, he would be a top 10 qb for the rest of his nfl career.
i also believe that system will never happen in cincy as long as bratt is here.
if we can get luck for palmer and another 1st round pick, its a deal that needs to be done. and for the love of god spend the 2nd 1st round pick on a safety or the o-line.
" I for one, welcome our new Buffalo overlords. " - Whokebe
start LeFevour
So you’re saying we should tank next year for a draft pick?
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
hey now
LeFevour isn’t so bad..
by 80%OFTHETIMEIMRIGHTEVERYTIME on Dec 4, 2010 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
isn't so bad
what have you seen of him?what do you base it on. he looked bad for the bears. he is a project, maybe……maybe a backup next year! id have JP5 play before him.
Oh Snap....
With clarity.. I agree with sofakingood’s last 2 paragraphs… Especially the last one!
Sorry Sexsalad…
"Bratkowski-- Off with his head!!!"
I agree with most of what he says, but I think starting LeFevour would set us WAY back.
He was a spread offense wonder in college. That’s all.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
I think he can be a decent dual-threat backup with some grooming, though.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
can i ask why you'd want to keep Cedric
and furthermore why trade Carson w/out a replacement. We need to draft a QB and have him sit a year behind him exactly like we did w/Carson. We don’t have the coaching to plug in a fresh rookie and have any chance at success
On Ced
Durability. Scott is to light to carry a full load in AFC north. While he’s very useful I don’t think he can carry 20+ times a game over a season. I might add that Ced could be somewhat subject as well, but he a least showed durability in 09 except for a few games with the hip injury.
On another subject, Pete Johnson was a fullback @ OSU and with the Bengals and performed above average. So why not groom Pressley for blocking and running some. If not, draft the kid from Wisconsin, his name escapes me, who is built like a hybrid RB/FB suitable for AFC north. Leonard would be good here and there but not full time.
CP9 right now is 2011 draft bait. Get two OL linemen via the draft for one and one in FA. Use CP9 trade pick to get a QB, pick up a backup QB like Kitna to mentor the rookie 1st round QB. JP5 goes with CP9 in the trade, they are connected at the hip. Establishing the running game AGAIN, you take the pressure of passing every down off of the rookie. Successful teams run first, pass second.
Hue Jackson or Jon Gruden for 2011. Brat & Marvin get fired or leave. Zim stays @ DC.
Durability is my knock on Scott.
He can’t pound it between the tackles 15-20 times a game like we’d want him to. He’s a situational back who can be explosive, not a guy who can take as many carries as Ced.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
yea
like Chris Johnson.. he’s not good..
Point being that Johnson is one inch taller and eight pounds lighter than Scott. He’s more durable than he looks. I don’t understand why they aren’t used together, like a one-two punch. Leonard isn’t so bad either.. who knows anymore, Brat is the worst.
by 80%OFTHETIMEIMRIGHTEVERYTIME on Dec 7, 2010 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
My point on Ced
is we can get the same production w/out the big $ contract he’s going to be looking for. And since he leads the league in fumbles i just don’t see him being worth a new big $ contract….my guess is Mikey lowballs him, offends him, and he goes elsewhere (ie: Cleveland). I don’t think B Scott is our answer as a #1 back, but he’s got to be used more in space and on sweeps and screens.
We can draft a RB in a late round and get the exact same production as Ced….
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
We need more than a QB
Luck can come in and turn into Tim Couch here. We have no line, we might lose TO and Ocho. We need a team for Luck to step into. IF we do get Luck, we need to get a line to protect him before we throw him into the line of fire of the Ravens and Steelers pass rush.
Carson is the man
Carson should stay. I think he is the least of our problems. He needs a new head coach and OC- he is doing great things with OCHO TO GRESH and SHIPLEY – good things to build upon. Once cedric is gone and the new coach utilizes one of the best recieiving backs in Scott, Palmer will excell.
Bengals 2010. Road 2 The Toilet Bowl.
Paul Brown Stadium "The Home of the 2nd down 1yd Run" +
"More blue lines than google earth"
bengals life I agree
Who in the world knows what Andrew Luck would be like in the NFL. I still agree Carson is the man and he has it all the way still. Ced is who needs replaced and the O-line is awful. A new coaching staff and some fresh O-lineman is what is needed. I think Scott and a 2nd RB to be a tandem is what is needed there. Ced is slow he doesnt see holes open up real well. I might take back what I said a few weeks back, and welcome Chad and TO back. I really think its the offensive coaching staff along with the horrible O-line holding this team back. Its not Carson Palmer.
+1 and +1 to bengals life
Scott spends wayyy too much time on the sideline.
by 80%OFTHETIMEIMRIGHTEVERYTIME on Dec 6, 2010 12:11 AM EST up reply actions
Agree to a point
Carson is still able to be good. What is needed is a coach or OC that can use Carson how he should. Scott Pioli, who is turning the cheifs into a contender in a few years, said he dosent want the best 53 players, he wants the 53 players that fit what they do the best. The Bengals just try to get the best players or most talented players they can, without taking into account the system might not fit their style of play. Look at teams like the Steelers, or Pats, they are contenders every year because the players they have fit their system. That in my eyes is the main problem with how the Bengals are ran.
that takes 'football knowledge'..
MB is our GM.
*sigh
by 80%OFTHETIMEIMRIGHTEVERYTIME on Dec 7, 2010 12:07 AM EST up reply actions
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