Question Of The Day: Are You Comfortable With The Team's Future With Jerome Simpson, Andre Caldwell And Jordan Shipley?
by Josh Kirkendall on Dec 31, 2010 11:40 AM EST
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PrintTerrell Owens missed the previous two games against the Browns and Chargers with a season-ending torn meniscus. Chad Ochocinco played in 38 of 72 snaps against the Browns and was inactive against the Chargers while dealing with problems with the bone spur in his left foot. So what happens in those two games?
Andre Caldwell catches eight passes for 176 yards receiving, including a 53-yard reception against the Browns and a 44-yard reception against the Chargers. Jerome Simpson catches eight passes for 154 yards, including a two-touchdown performance against the Chargers, leading the Bengals to a 34-20 win over San Diego. Jermaine Gresham contributes with five receptions for 62 yards and a touchdown with Jordan Shipley rounding out the team's wide receiver core with another touchdown against the Chargers.
Most importantly with the crop of younger wide receivers stepping up isn't just their production. It's that Carson Palmer is enjoying the sport of football again, seen by his body language and enthusiasm. Some will say, "well, if Carson were a true leader, he should have been able to handle Chad and Owens and taken advantage of their talents." True. Palmer isn't the type of quarterback in the mold of Tom Brady and Peyton Manning in that he demands excellence while the cameras are rolling. But when have we ever believed that during his eight-year career?
The distribution among the team's core, along with the team's stubbornness to run the football, has been the catalyst of the team's two-game winning streak after dealing with a 10-game losing streak in which Owens and Chad Ochocinco started.
Many are quickly blaming the coaching staff for not allowing Simpson to blossom earlier. The knock on Simpson has always been about him not picking up the playbook and the coaching staff being comfortable enough with him. The knock on the coaching staff might be more warranted on actually working with Simpson to expedite his growth earlier in his three-year career, rather than burying him on the depth chart by signing Laveranues Coles, Antonio Bryant and Terrell Owens. Because one thing that's not the case, is his any lack of talent, speed and athleticism. If the mental part of the game was the cause for Simpson's stunted growth, then the coaching staff could be to blame for not working with him to get him on the field sooner. Because if Sunday's win over the San Diego Chargers proved anything, it's that this kid can play ball.
So here's your question of the day.
Would you be comfortable with the team banking their future on wide receivers Jerome Simpson, Andre Caldwell and Jordan Shipley, or would you still want the team to upgrade the position, either through free agency or the NFL Draft. Note, when answering, you have weigh whether or not to include Chad Ochocinco.
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Meh...
I would still draft a WR high.
I’m not sold on Caldwell. We’ve seen him as the #2 before and it wasn’t good. Simpson may or may not be the answer at the #1 spot but 2 games probably won’t be enough to judge that (thank you Marvin). Shipley and Gresham are locks.
Good team should always think of the worst case scenario. Let’s say Simpson gets hurt and Caldwell dissapears again. Our WR starters would be Shipley and Cosby. We need more than that to compete.
But here's the thing: they're not using Caldwell like they were last year.
They were trying to use him like a possession receiver. They have that in Shipley now, so they’re utilizing him more like a deep threat and it’s working.
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
by Doc Scratch on Dec 31, 2010 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
I've touched on this before.
I’m pretty sure he ran 4.4 40. He needs to be allowed to out run guys deep.
by Throw the ball on Dec 31, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
agree
Another criticism of the caoching has been the misuse of caldwell. He’s the fastest guy on the team and the only guy faster than him in his draft class was desean jackson but you would never know it based on how the bengals kept him running 8 yard curls.
by goffchile on Dec 31, 2010 1:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The knock on the coaches has been their gross misues of ALL the personnel
Take B. Scott. Why even try to run him between the tackles? Why are they sending Gresham on 2 yard drag routes instead of sending him deep where he can draw safety coverage? Why did they insist on starting Roland over Smith AND Collins to start the year?
This is our year!
Ehh
He has had a couple of chances in TB so far and hasn’t impressed me. I think he was over-hyped
by Throw the ball on Dec 31, 2010 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
he got drafted late for a reason
pretty raw when it came to the real thing. But plenty of potential
by Sheffieldbengal on Dec 31, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
we almost have to draft a wr
It doesn’t have to be AJ Green (although I wouldn’t complain) but we have to think about the future.
Caldwell, simpson, and chad’s contracts all expire in 2012. Cosby is on the bubble as an NFL player. Re-signing chad may be difficult and the jury is still out on simpson and caldwell.
If simpson and caldwell prove themselves next year and we give them extensions, great, but to bank on that would not be prudent.
Look for the bengals to pick a WR in the first three rounds
by goffchile on Dec 31, 2010 12:06 PM EST via mobile reply actions
If they were smart...
..they would give Simpson and Caldwell a new contract now while their values are low. But I’m sure we’ll wait until the 11th hour and have to pay top money next year.
by smoormandiddy on Dec 31, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
I’m not sure why the answer is no, but hell no.
by Evil Monkey on Dec 31, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
anyone who has an opinion that is not mine has been Bengalized....
Seriously. Both those guys have 3 years in the system. If you bring in somebody to start over one or both of them, you’re only setting yourself back further. Bring in guys to sit behind ’em this year. Rookie/FA WRs are historically poor contributors.
are you mocking me?
2 games out of simpson and people are ready to call him our WR1 next year. rewind to the dez briscoe conversation in September when people were calling for simpson’s release… how easily we all forget that Jerome couldn’t get on the field even when the depth chart was depleted. if Mike Brown wanted Jerome on the field, he would have made it happen. i don’t buy this Marvin double speak of “oh, it’s probably my fault.” jordan shipley has been in the system for 1 season and he has more production than simpson.
i don’t think we can lose sight of the importance of talent at the WR position. hopefully we keep chad, jerome and andre can battle it out for WR2, and shipley just keeps getting better. if we don’t keep chad we should draft a WR in the first or 2nd rd (hopefully 2nd so we can use our 1st pick on a DL or DB).
bring in guys to sit behind them??? how many WRs do you want to have on the roster? anyone we bring in better play right away. don’t you agree?
Shipley and Simpson play 2 different spots, we didn't have a slot WR either and they had TO instead of Caldwell
I think that Marvin was telling the truth when he said it was his fault. He didn’t play Simpson to keep Chad quiet. We were already having a bad season and to let Chad start complaining would have made things worse. I think Chad really wanted to play this week, but it isn’t his call. Marvin I think told him he’s not playing this week. Chad’s got a lot to lose if he starts complaining, he knows this and Marvin has the upper hand right now. We will probably see whats going on now in a couple of weeks.
I just think that your not ready to get rid of Chad. Sometimes you have to make tough choices. I love Chad too, but it’s apparent that his freelance route running, and personality has been a distraction for some time now. It’s time to let go unless Chad is willing to let go.
I wasn't mocking you, just the blanket style comment.
As far as bringing in guys to sit behind them, well, they do need a #4, 5, and 6 WR next year. So yes, they can bring in guys, and not have them play right away.
As far as Chad goes, pretty much agree w/ everything Whyus! said. Anybody been paying attention to this Donovan McNabb spectacle? I bet Shanahan would have been a lot happier had McNabb gotten “bone spurs” a few weeks back.
But Chad being a #1? I dunno what you’ve been watching.
I’d agree w/ drafting a WR in the 2nd or 3rd, but probably not a guy like Green in the first, unless they can commit themselves to let him learn the offense/find a rhythm w/ Palmer before throwing him out there. Would hate to see the team fall in love w/ his talent and throw him out there before he is ready.
Depending on how the game goes against Baltimore
I agree that we could wait to draft a WR in the second or third. By all accounts this is a deep WR class, and one of the top guys is going to fall to the second or even third rounds.
If Simpson and Caldwell look terrible against the Ravens though, the organization might not have a choice but to draft Green, Baldwin, or Jones.
This is our year!
Comparing Shipley and Simpson is, well, (and I hate to say this) stupid.
How many times do I need to say this? WIDE RECEIVER IS NOT JUST ONE POSITION. Simpson was blocked by Chad and the position Ship needed to take over was wide open. You can’t compare them getting on the field.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
I'm on the fence.
I think we should use a 1-3 round pick on a WR though. Competition breeds excellence.
Needs more depth, and Chad for another year.
I’d argue that Carson handled Chad as well as any QB in the league could, and no one has handled T.O, so that’s not an indictment of Palmer.
need a new coordinator first
we’ve had talent for years & look what it got us. Brat fails to put people in a position to succeed, plain and simple. As soon as D’s recognize how he plans to use the WR we have, whoever they are, we’re toast.
fair point, its probably both
But Marvin has always been a D guy — it shouldn’t be his responsibility to get a WR on the field, it should be the position coach and the coordinator who are evaluating and saying “these are the best guys to help us win.”
This has always been my issue with Brat, I just think he is too cerebral & calculating, he doesn’t seem to relate to the players at all. Watching Hard Knocks last year really crystallized the things you see in his limited media appearance. I think there is a reason he spends every game up in a glass booth. When a coaches style is to be in the mix of things they want to be on the field. Brat stays up top so he can see all the little pieces move on the board.
The problem with that is that it never seems like the offense is taking advantage of individuals skills & tendencies…and how could it with a coordinator who is all X;s & O’s..
Look at how quickly things changed on the D when Zimmer came in, got in guys faces, and said “do it right, the first time, or I’m going to kick your a$$”.
If it came down to it, I'd cut Brat before Lewis
There was some kind of failure starting with those guys and going all the way down to WR coaches. Somebody should have been saying “We need to get these guys on the field, even if it means passing on guys like TO, Bryant, and Coles.”
This is our year!
There are some great TJ quotes concerning the WR and Palmer in this article:
http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Next-generation/58fbf679-4163-4215-88ab-cf295dea5ee6
When asked if Palmer was still a top QB:
“Does a bear crap in the woods?” Houshmandzadeh asked. “You’re looking at a guy who had pretty much all new receivers. You’d see him lead guys to the spot and it would get intercepted. Who is going to get blamed? They weren’t on the same page. T.O. was new. Shipley was a rookie. Chad freelances. Then you press and force it. But the guy can still sling it.”
With TJ's willingness to throw guys under the bus
I think he’d do it to Palmer if he really thought he was the problem.
by Throw the ball on Dec 31, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
Gee, Hobson's not trying to get us used to Chad being let go, is he?
With comments like “no one expects the Bengals to pick up Chad’s $6 million option next year.”
Wonder if Mikey asked him to start slipping in those comments to get the fan base used to the idea of Chad being gone?
At least part of the fanbase has wanted Chad gone for a couple years now.
I’ve been a supporter (hell, I have his Jersey), but IF Jerome and Caldwell are the real deal, it might be time to move on.
This is our year!
Well I'm ready for this weekend
in more ways than one. I’m anxious to see the outcome of our little palmer debate and whether these young WR’s can handle their own.
Hue Jack for head coach
I think competition is good
However I’m pretty comfortable with the guys we have. I’d say bring some guys in to compete and more than likely you’ll find that the guys we have right now fit best. They have been reading the playbook and executing it in practice more than the guys your going to bring in. Being familiar with what you’re doing goes hand in hand with how good you play.
Also we need to finally show to the WRs
the young ones we have now, that they trust them. Let them play. I think Carson can help them tremendously. These kids were patiently waiting to show off what they can do and to rip that away from them again would just cause friction. When it is time to sign they will go some where else and sign. F*ck Mike Brown and the Bengals again! This is why players don’t like it here.
It’s time to let them show their stuff. They will have some bad games but stick with them and be consistent with playing them. For that is what you want your players to be “consistent”. If you go ahead and draft some WRs they can be sitting and waiting their turn if the others don’t pan out.
take AJ Green
and become a run-first team with Benson(or another pound it RB) with Scott to spot him often then i’m fine with having no big name WRs.
Caldwell, Shipley, Simpson, Green and Gresham seem like a more than potent third down grouping. Add in a healthy Leonard and i’m sure with some good line play we can go further than a first round exit from the play offs
by Sheffieldbengal on Dec 31, 2010 1:27 PM EST reply actions
Run first offense
To be quite frank I’m sick of hearing this. The league is making it more and more easy to get ahead throwing the ball first and use the run to expire time. I think we should bulk our offensive line up and run the spread. See New England, New Orleans,and Indianapolis…
by JamesShively on Dec 31, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
NO and Indy
play in domes: we don’t. Plus when both teams won their superbowls they had a great running offence… Also count how many superbowls NE have since they became a pass first team? They got dumped on in the superbowl by a run first team with a defence that stopped the run, rushed the passer. Personally the Giant framework is what we should go for. Running team with a good QB and good WRs and a dominant D.
Plus a run first offense doesn’t mean you stop passing it means that you gear the team to running the ball often and right down the other teams throat. Last year we did that and won every division game… it wasn’t coincidence and it isn’t a surprise the Bengals are playing better on both sides of the ball when they scaled in the pass happy offense and kept it run first.
by Sheffieldbengal on Dec 31, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry I disagree
Running the ball first stubbornly results in a lot of 3 and outs.
by JamesShively on Dec 31, 2010 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
When you have a back who averages 2.2 yds per carry im half the games yes.
Bengals 2010. Road 2 The Toilet Bowl.
Paul Brown Stadium "The Home of the 2nd down 1yd Run" +
"More blue lines than google earth"
by bengals life on Dec 31, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
I don't pay much attention to college football, but watching ND right now.
Michael Floyd? 2nd or 3rd round type guy if he comes out? Grew up in St. Paul and went to school at ND, so he’d at least be used to playing/catching the ball/running routees in uncomfortable climates. Plus, he’s been pretty darn good.
Well I just assumed that he sucks since he's from ND
BUT, a more intelligent argument than my own might sway me. I’ve never seen the guy play before.
This is our year!
lets talk about it after they do it again
in baltimore.
by andyfrombrooklyn on Dec 31, 2010 2:31 PM EST reply actions
Spending a high first round draft pick on a receiver makes no sense.
There are going to be plenty of quality receivers in the later rounds. Perfect example; we got Shipley in the third round last year. Chad was a second rounder, and T.J. was a seventh rounder. Most receivers drafted high don’t work out anyway. We have too many other holes that need to be filled like safety, o-line, and d-line. We can always find someone in free agency.
MIKE BROWN STEP DOWN!!!
I don't trust Mike Brown when it comes to WR FAs though.
See: Bryant, Antonio
Owens, Terrell
Coles, Laveranues
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
Valid point...
I think we should wait to see what develops in the draft. If our prayers are answered we will have a new offensive coordinator who hopefully has some brains and can influence MB to make a smart free agent acquisition if needed.
My whole point being; if we have a great line to protect the QB, then that will allow time for mediocre receivers to get open. We have already proved that we can’t win with great receivers and a poor o-line. We are only going to be as good as the big guys up front. That applies to both sides of the ball.
MIKE BROWN STEP DOWN!!!
Signing a WR doesn't make sense...
,,,you don’t sign a veteran FA to be inactive every week. Which is why I think we need to draft a guy to develop and push Simpson and Caldwell.
is it just me?...
I have a bad feeling about Jerome’s attitude. It could he because he finally got attention but he didn’t come off well with me. I say we keep Chad, his salary is not ridiculous. I’d prefer to draft a safety high than a wr but should focus in o and d line and go w what we have at Wr.
by quickslant on Dec 31, 2010 10:33 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I didn't see anything in his attitude
What did you see? I thought he was pretty humble.
by BonnieBengal on Jan 2, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Im not totally sold on the WR right now
But I don’t think we need to draft a WR so high with the depth of this class at WR i think we can wait till at least the third round. I think that becasue there are so many good WR that people will wait to grab them and that some of the better ones will slide allowing us to sure up the d-line, o-line and safety position.
Today is huge for Jerome and Andre
They are not going to take anyone by surprise today. Let’s see how they do in double coverage as well. After today, we will be able to see for sure.
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