Carson Palmer Keeps Showing The Lack Of Leadership
by Josh Kirkendall on Dec 6, 2010 10:04 AM EST
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Tick. Tock. Tick. Tock. After a 14-yard screen pass to Brian Leonard that pushed the Bengals offense to the New Orleans 37-yard line, the players ran to the line of scrimmage while Carson Palmer made a spiking motion. Tick. Tock. Still making the spiking motion, players were lining up, killing time off the clock when the Bengals finally called a timeout with eight seconds left.
Instead of having closer to 15 seconds, the Bengals lost needless time off the clock because no one used the team's remaining timeout. Better yet, why throw the football underneath for a limited gain to Brian Leonard when you have to go 51 yards in 22 seconds because you had to score a touchdown?
Asked about it after the game, Marvin Lewis said that he would "probably to do it over again, I would probably call timeout. But we were going to try and clock it. I was trying to preserve a timeout so we could throw the ball in the middle of the field." Lewis' explanation makes sense as he says that he had hoped to spike the football with around 12 seconds left. With a timeout remaining, the Bengals could still use the middle of the field, use the final timeout for a final play of the game in a more manageable non-hail mary play. Then again, why put yourself in that position with a dinky screen pass with a running back that picks up the tough yards but not a lot of yards?
However.
"It didn’t work out," Lewis said. "We didn’t get set, and then Carson saw the guys not getting set. And they (officials) didn’t get the ball set real quick there for us there, obviously."
While running down the field, having a better feel for the game than Lewis, the question was asked what the team was thinking by waiting to use the timeout, rather than using it on Leonard's screen pass.
"I run the plays on the field and Marvin (Lewis) handles the timeouts. I just noticed it was taking a long time to get everybody set, so I went ahead and called that on my own.”
What? Well that's inspiring from our hundred-million dollar quarterback that was given the keys to the franchise. No, he said to Dad. The car started stalling before it stopped working on the side of the road. I can't be responsible for checking the gas gauge every 100 miles. Shesh.
A follow-up question asked if he expected Lewis to use the timeout sooner.
“I don’t worry about that. My job is to get us to the line of scrimmage and get the play called. I let him handle all of that stuff and I just try to get everybody in the right spots and lined up and get the play called. It took a while for them to spot the ball. I’m not sure what happened. Normally, it comes right in from the ref to the next ref, and the red in the middle of the field spots it. But that wasn’t the case, and I just decided to call a timeout there.”
This, my friends, is but another example of the failed leadership quality that was expected out of Palmer. While Palmer is more than willing to accept endless amounts of blame (honorable as that may be), the quarterback rarely leads the team in a united effort to put them on his backs into a position where he spends the press conference talking about winning the game, and not the talking points of "blame me".
Do you think the better quarterbacks in the game would run down the field, wondering what's going on with the spot, why players aren't in a position while time clicks off the clock without calling a timeout? No, they call the timeout, take responsibility for that action.
Or better yet, maybe Palmer argues with the play-calling and yells "you seriously want me to run a screen pass with 51 yards to go and 30 seconds left in the game? Bob, put the 'guess the play' hat away and let me take it from here." What's the worse that could happen? The Bengals lose a game?
Maybe it's a bit much to ask of Palmer. The truth isn't so much about the Bengals losing, or Palmer not leading the Bengals for a touchdown. What I can't stand is the deflection of responsibility, with phrases like "I don't worry about that" or "My job is..." These aren't the words of a leader, of a take-charge quarterback. These are words of defeat emanating from the one player that most players are supposed to look towards for leadership. And we wonder why we're 2-10 this year.
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The next QB of the Seattle Seahawks....Carson Palmer
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
you replace Kitna in the above sentence with Jason Garrett and it is correct.
Really, I think Marvin should be let go and Zimmer promoted to Interm HC. If he is going to be a good HC, it would show over the remaining games.
by Cedric Benson Boat Party on Dec 6, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I blame that on the coaches not palmer. Marvin wants to call the time outs or at least thats what I take from the quotes. Palmer goes out there and runs what is called. He went to the line to spike because thats what marvin wanted. If it was palmers responsibility to call TO’s then he would havecalled time out when the play is done. Palmer may not be vocal but i think he is a good leader. I think it is more the coaches aren’tletting the hundred million dollar man lead like he wants to.
RE:
That’s my point. One could argue that a leader would just lead, without the blessing of anyone else. But I think a fair share of blame goes to the coaches, mostly for the entire situation we’re in right now.
Managing Editor at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Josh Kirkendall on Dec 6, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
+1
With the talent level when you compare rosters over two seasons, it’s clear the coaches can’t get the players to perform. There are too many distractions on and off the field, and in the NFL getting teams close isn’t good enough. Close gets you a 2-10.
One positive thing. The conclusion to yesterday’s game has to make it easier for Mike Brown to come to a decision about 2011.
I really don't know how Marvin manages to do what he does each and every week.
Just when you think it can’t get any worse, you see the last minute of yesterday’s game. The coup de grace one would hope.
How will Chris Carpenter explain this to his children?
Chicken or the egg?
Carson says all the right things, but I don’t really think he believes it or accepts it (in this case the blame).
In this case: He’s on the field and he sees the clock. He should have called a timeout regardless of what Marvin/Brat told him. He sees his guys not being able to run up to the line of scrimmage. I believe in critical analysis / thinking and if Carson is blindly going on what the coaches tell him to do then he’s not doing his job as a “Franchise QB”.
Marvin through his ineptitude has lost all credibility as an HC. His game management and calling skills have a lot left to be desired.
by sgiridharan1982 on Dec 6, 2010 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Marvin's not paid "to do it over again"
If you want hindsight, watch the replay of the game, Marvin.
We’re living in real time, pal, and you messed up the last minute-and-a-half of that match because you we’re outsmarted and outcoached. Even your QB says it’s your responsibility to manage the clock. If so, stop wallowing in it and admit that your time has also passed in Cincinnati.
Losing is In His Head!
Palmer’s game is now 99% mental & 1% physical. He has to be empowered to lead by the coaches & owner, I believe that leadership below the owner level has been stiffled. Carson is a smart guy and with the right system and empowerment could once again be a top QB. I have said all year that Carson should be given the ability to run the the offense like Payton Manning runs his. Give Brat a week off & let Carson go & then see what happens. Don’t think we will see him return to any glory here in Cincy but he will get it somewhere where he is allowed to play. PLEASE SELL THE TEAM MIKE BROWN!!! Your killing us, look at your fellow owners, you could tie a doughnut to your ass & still couldn’t get ants to follow you to a picnic!!!
by Vman in Germany on Dec 6, 2010 12:13 PM EST reply actions
" And we wonder why we’re 2-10 this year." Josh, I stopped wondering after 4 consecutive losses. The reason is Carson Palmer. Has been for quite some time I just couldn’t figure it out till this season.
To me the better question is why has Carson fallen so fast and far from elite status? Is it cumulative injuries? Poor diagnosis from the Bengal med staff? Behind the scenes confrontations with Marvin and Brown?
I’m sure we’re entering a period of oblivion for the franchise as Mike Brown repeats past mistakes of hiring bad head coaches and signing players that shouldn’t be in the NFL, so the future wins and losses isn’t too hard to anticipate. Carson’s fall from grace is a good “who done it” mystery.
I think the injuries are amplified by the terrible play calling.
It’s making a bad situation that much worse.
by Throw the ball on Dec 6, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
The reason why the Bengals won last year? Obviously, not Carson Palmer.
How will Chris Carpenter explain this to his children?
uhh...
so the guy who led all the comebacks last year was who again? they certainly didn’t run the two minute drill and game tying/game winning drives running the football. it was done throwing the football. and if i remember correctly, Palmer is the one who throws the ball.
obviously, Palmer wasn’t the ONLY reason the Bengals won last year. the team ran the ball better and the defense was MUCH better. but Palmer was a big reason the Bengals won last year. not to mention, he had to lead all those comeback drives with almost no offensive weapons and ocho cinco double teamed. need i say more?
Palmer is a good QB. this team’s problem starts from the top down. i would blame Mike Brown and the coaches before i start blaming Palmer. this franchise and organization as a whole reminds of the Clippers. it’s pathetic and absolutely frustrating as a fan.
What is really getting old here
No matter what happens Carson is getting every blame from every fan no matter what. The guy rings up a 101 rating on the No. 7 defense in the league puts them in position to score 2 other TD’s in the first half and only to see our RB fumble on a 3rd and 2 run and on another play cant hit an open hole that would have gotten a first down. Im the first to admit that Carson hasnt been elite this year, but I am also the first to defend the guy that he isnt washed up. The D sucks, are we to blame Palmer for that to? His line sucks, is that his fault ? The coaches have no imagination and dont play better players( B. Scott) I bet thats Palmers fault to.
by Bengal Brian on Dec 6, 2010 12:56 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
i feel bad for Palmer
because he’s stuck in such a cancerous franchise/organization that effects everyone from the management to the players to the fans. i know his ‘05 season wasn’t a fluke. Carson is a good QB.
Leadership
Just go and listen to former players that have played with Carson Palmer and they’ll tell you. I believer in listening to Willie Anderson that Mike Brown or Marvin Lewis have stripped Palmer of any control he could have. When your coach tells you to spike the ball and save a timeout youre supposed to do that but thankfully Carson realized it wouldnt work and he had the brains to call a timeout.
by Bengal Brian on Dec 6, 2010 12:59 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
He should have walked away
Marvin’s still waiting to make the call.
The Bengals head coach is the timekeeper of the franchise. And a pretty bad one, you’d have to admit.
Can I throw the red flag at Marvin?
yea
i think Marvin’s time in Cincy is done. i always felt Marvin was a middle of the road/pack coach. one that could take a losing team to .500. which he did. but i thought that was his peak and that we needed another coach to take us to the next level. but then ‘05 happened, so i figured maybe not. but then ’06-’08 happened. so i back to believing what i originally thought. and then ‘09 happened. followed by this year. all this to say, i don’t believe Marvin is a Super Bowl caliber coach. but i don’t have confidence in Mike Brown to bring in a Super Bowl caliber coach either. i just want to see the Bengals win ONE super bowl in my lifetime. is that too much to ask?
Leaders are leaders no matter what!!!
If CP was a real leader he wouldnt worry bout the outcome. He would put the team on his back an dont worry bout what is said afterwards. Whats go happen if he change the play are call a timeout. Would they bench CP. We all know the answer to that, NO!!! CP is just going thru the motions to me. Yea he had a good day but when is he go take over. CP makes to much money for the excuses he come up with. Bet Brees wouldnt worry what the coaches would say he would take controll and worry later. Guess thats why they have been to the big dance and the Bengals sit back and watch every year.
Umm
So the leadership in this organization, starting at the top, is out of whack. The HC has lost the team, that is obvious. So what is going on now is ‘Carson Palmer is not good enough leader to overcome the horrible cancer that is the hierarchy of the Cincinnati Bengals, and it is all his fault’
I’m sure his leadership caused Sims to jump offside or directly contributed to the myriad of other stupid mental errors made by pretty much everyone at some point of time in all three phases over the course of the season.
Really, if anything, the last offensive possession showed the disconnect between the players and coaches.
by Cedric Benson Boat Party on Dec 6, 2010 1:27 PM EST reply actions
So Carson is responsible for time outs too ?
So lets get this straight – Brat makes Offensive plays. Brown makes Defensive plays.
Marvin doesn’t carry a challenge flag and Carson makes Timeout decisions so what does Marvin do again ?
Bengals 2010. Road 2 The Toilet Bowl.
Paul Brown Stadium "The Home of the 2nd down 1yd Run" +
"More blue lines than google earth"
When your star qb is explaining who's job it is to call timeouts,
He is clearly taking shots at Marvin and the way things are run, time to go bye bye Lewis, your own QB is done shouldering the blame for the poor coaching going on around here.
by cabech984 on Dec 6, 2010 2:00 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I'm tired.
I’m just tired of watching the Bengals lose. We had a short reprieve when Marvin first came to town but his “lame duck” coaching this season lacks the fire he had his first years here. He wants to leave and he needs to. He has not committed to staying and seems to be merely going through the motions. The fire has never come from Palmer, he’s not that type of player. The defense has some fire to it and perhaps that is Zimmer coming through but even they seem to be packing it in sometimes. The reality is that until there is fire from above and the REAL desire to win we will still draft players and hire coaches who give up too easily or don’t prepare enough to avoid making the same stupid mistakes we are seeing every week now. Its easy to blame a player or a coach but the whole organization wreeks with a defeatest attitude. Even the fan base has reverted to the protection of “not caring” or “let’s fire the bums” or some other mad reaction. This is our team and is the only NFL team Cincinnati is likely to ever have. The fans and the ownership are the only constants here over the past two and a half decades and the ownership isn’t going to change. If you are a true NFL fan and fan of the Bengals you are tired (like me) and realize that the decision making is out of our hands. We as fans must retain as much of the “fire” as we can because it is us who will be cheering on the next wave of outsiders coming in and trying to create change. If Mike Brown can get the same fire to want success in the NFL he will begin to surround himself with the personnel necessary to bring the fire to the field and start a lasting tradition of winning like that in Pittsburgh and Baltimore. I’m tired, tired of the anger, the stupid mistakes, the apparent lack of preparation, and especially the up and down teams we have had in the past twenty or so years. I think I can sleep until the draft. How about you? Go Miami in the GoDaddy.com bowl!
What is politically correct today probably won't be tomorrow. God bless the Miami nation.
Ignorance is Bliss
Do any of you ragging on Palmer honestly believe he has time to argue with Bratkowski or Lewis about play calling with 22 seconds left in a game? There is no way to ask this lightly – are you really, really, really that stupid? You Palmer bashers amaze me with your simplistic rhetoric. Clearly a number of you haven’t watched too many NFL games over the years, let alone Cincinnati Bengals games.
Our offensive line is unreliable/inconsistent (Exhibits A, B, C…: numerous false starts, illegal shifts and holding penalties… not to mention its failure to protect the quarterback on critical passing plays al a the final play against the Saints, or hurry and set-up at the line of scrimmage with time running out in a half), our secondary is held together with duct tape and Elmer’s Glue, we’ve had key turnovers and dropped passes in critical times of the game (ex. Gresham against the Colts, Benson against Falcons, Shipley against the Steelers), special teams play has been feast or famine but mostly famine, we’re on our third kicker and the last two kickers have botched much chip shots inside the thirty yard line, our coaches have exhibited poor clock management and wasted precious time outs in the earliest parts of the half that have severely inhibited the team in making a final push for a game winning or tying drive, Bratkowski’s play calling has become non-sensical and yet predictable to our opponents, and our owner is hands-down the worst in the league by not seeking out “football people” who could capably run the organization leadership..
Now that my team has completely imploded and Bunglized itself yet another year, I hope the most vocal of you on this blog finally get your wish and Palmer is traded or released so you can see just how fortunate we were to have a quarterback of his calibre and realize our “other problems” are too much for any quality quarterback to overcome. Many of you forget Wilhelm, Neil O’Donnell, Akili Smith, Paul Justin, David Klingler, Gus Frerotte… but, if you get your wish you’ll get a refresher course in truly ineffective quarterbacking soon enough. Mark my words – prepare yourselves for another twenty years of futility because it will be coming and we have the history to prove it.
by Skeleton Kees on Dec 6, 2010 2:58 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Skel could not agree more. Carson is in a horrible situation.
You never see mainstream ppl that bash him on ESPN, NFL Network etc say anything about the Bengals Coaching or playcalling just highlight and loop 2 bad throws out of 40 Carson throws.
Bengals 2010. Road 2 The Toilet Bowl.
Paul Brown Stadium "The Home of the 2nd down 1yd Run" +
"More blue lines than google earth"
The bumbling continues
I actually am not as disappointed in the Palmer performance yesterday – it is what I thought he was in the preseason. (those unfamiliar will figure it out).
A defense that does not get off the field on third down (a trait all year this year and last year since the Minnesota game) with the worst takling techniques I have seen at the pro level in some time is my primary complaint. Safeties who need their pictures on milk cartons and get beat over the top on Cover 2 (how does that happen?) need to be replaced.
Injuries are hitting the entire league hard, but the truly elite teams find a way to get around those problems and excel. Others muddle through the season. The Bengals just flush it all away.
by david in upstate SC on Dec 6, 2010 3:48 PM EST reply actions
Yes and No
Elite teams do find a way to excel and get around the injury bug – but… 1.) there are VERY FEW elite teams in the NFL and the Bengals are not one of those teams, 2.) the Bengals have no depth in key positions, and 3.) the Bengals have injuries on top of the aforementioned problems (from my earlier post) which spells disaster.
There is no mystery here. You cannot forever mask ineptitude with schemes and systems. A quarterback cannot overcome deficiencies in his team’s defense or special teams and a quarterback cannot block for the offensive line or pick them up and carry them to the line. He cannot force his receivers to run correct routes or glue the ball to the running back’s hands on a crucial end of game play. And, finally, a quarterback cannot be an effective leader and call plays without the endorsement from his coaches. Palmer has no such endorsement.
by Skeleton Kees on Dec 6, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
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