Safety First
The Bengals are awful at safety. Awful. We all know this. But how do we solve it? Free agency? Draft? Probably neither, since Mike Brown sucks. But we can always imagine, right?
A lot of folks talk about moving a backup corner to safety, like Brandon Ghee or Morgan Trent. My question: why not one of the three starting-quality guys?
Hear me out. Assuming we re-sign Johnathan Joseph (not necessarily a safe assumption, I know), we'll be back to having three starting-quality corners in 2011: Joseph, Leon Hall and PacMan Jones. Ghee and Trent are nice backups. Instead of comparing them to find out which one's best, and then just throw one of them out as a safety, let's talk strengths and weaknesses for the three really talented defensive backs
Hall is a great corner down low. He can stick to his man like glue on short routes, and has the physical ability to muscle with anyone, make tackles and break up passes. He's slow for a DB, though. He gets burned on deep balls a lot (see: Roddy White, every game he's played against San Diego). He'd be a hit-or-miss safety. We've definitely seen him make interceptions on deep balls before in those cases in which he sticks with the route. He's a ball-hawker, but a big risk. Could be worth it with the other two at corner, and he also tackles runners well, which fills a huge hole for us at safety.
PacMan: He'd be OK, honestly, but I think he's better as a No. 2 corner or nickel corner. He's lightning fast and can make plays on the ball, but I think he could get burned too. He might not have the instincts for safety, but then again, maybe he does. I have a hard time predicting how he'd do, but with the dynamic duo at corner, it might be really interesting. I don't know if he tackles well enough for the position.
JonJo: Athletic, fast, has it all, but doesn't stick to his receivers like Hall. We saw that in that pathetic touchdown by Colston. However, he can also shut down the deep routes, and he gets interceptions. He locked down on Randy Moss, and he can go with any deep pass-catcher in the league. He can make the tackles on runners who reach the secondary, and he has the instincts it takes. Why not him? Solves two problems.
So yea, I think that instead of using a valuable draft pick on this much-needed position, the organization should use the resources at hand. All three starting-quality corners would make decent safeties, but I'd rank them like this: Joseph, Hall, Jones.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors.
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No gogdammit.
That would mean we were successful at this experimental bullshit before. Can we let the players play the positions they’re best at instead of forcing them to play something else? I don’t care if they have the build for it or if it’s easy to learn, football is a game that emphasizes people with specific abilities rather than jacks of all trades. Let’s stop making the latter.
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
by Doc Scratch on Dec 8, 2010 4:08 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
NO!
We need to find a Safety to play Safety. No more of this position changing bullshit.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
by sexsalad on Dec 8, 2010 4:14 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Dnt think so
Lets leave the CBs at CBs an get a true safety. Either draft are in free agency. Lets get what we really need and leave the true pieces in the right spot.
So three good players for two starting spots?
Waste of talent.
It's time to sink or Zim.
by Pardon_My_French on Dec 8, 2010 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
Not a waste.
Nickle back and rotation. Having three NFL starting caliber corners is actually really, really good. Especially since our defense is built around the CBs.
I'd actually agree with you.
Leon Hall is up there on my hate players list. He can’t cover for sh*t on a one-to-one basis be it down low or deep. He’d make a great safety I think.
What do you do when there's no way out? Find a way to get deeper in it.
by jimbasa on Dec 8, 2010 5:58 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I'd rather move Trent or Ghee to free saftey
No sense in experimenting with JJ and Hall. Both guys are great cover corners especially considering the poor pass rush this team has put up this year. A Jones is great in the nickle slot position as our 3rd.
Though the first few comments make good points
about our failure at converting players into new positions, I think we should take into account the fact that Hall will be a FA next year. I’m going to assume (I’d start losing hair otherwise) that we’ll resign JJ which means MB will be considering letting Hall go after next season since he’ll have three top CBs who will be demanding high salaries. I say try Hall at FS. This way we don’t have to waste a high pick and we get to start all 3 of our probowl caliber DBs. Worst case scenario, Hall sucks at FS. We still have two solid CBs and now there is less market appeal for Hall from other teams, so we can resign him for less and bring him back to CB.
With that, now we can focus on building up the trenches and LBs.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
I wouldn't call A. Jones a "Pro Bowl Caliber" CB anymore.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
maybe not, but close
and by some NFL analysts, he is considered one of the top cover corners in the league.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
He's definitely good enough to start.
That’s my point. It’s not that we don’t need a safety. It’s that we have more than we need at corner, and we ought to put that to good use. Resources are scarce in the NFL. If we can save on a draft pick or cap space, do it.
It's time to sink or Zim.
by Pardon_My_French on Dec 8, 2010 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
not if his neck is screwed up
www.fantasydaddy.com
by Joe Goodberry on Dec 8, 2010 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
no. c4 or c6 vertabrea crack. ill look it up again to be sure
www.fantasydaddy.com
by Joe Goodberry on Dec 9, 2010 7:41 AM EST up reply actions
the disc was herniated not cracked
But this is the 2nd times it happened in his career
www.fantasydaddy.com
by Joe Goodberry on Dec 9, 2010 7:43 AM EST up reply actions
I have no knowledge whatsoever of medical terms.
Is a herniated disk severe? I would imagine it’s pretty bad since it kept him out for nearly a whole season, but it seems like a herniated disk isn’t something that has a long-term effect.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
Yes and No..
People think that a disk in the spine is a solid substance. It is actually a membrane that holds a “jelly like substance” inside it. When it herniates, the membrane rips and the “jelly like substance” leaks out. Of course this membrane is in between each vertebrae. It can be severe, if how bad the tear is and how much has leaked out. It leaks out into the nerve canal that is in the spine. It also depends on where the herniation is. Sometimes it takes surgery to remove this and correct the problem that is causing the disk to herniate. For me, it was in the L4, L5 and S1. It was painful…very! Sometimes it’s corrected and sometimes not.
so.... you're saying he might not ever be the same player again?
cause this sounds terrible. Fortunately he’s a cb, which is one of the least physical positions, but still…. Even if he recovers, you have to imagine he’ll be tentative whenever coming up to make tackles.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
Yeah possibly,
Really with all the technology out there, this might be just a minor injury. But keep note, that there are more people suffering from back pain (not just in the lower back) than any other injury. The alignment of the vertebrae and deterioration of the disk is key to his comeback. Well see if the doctors scares the hell out of him.. Hope not.
Just curious, how do you know this much about sports medicine?
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
It's not just sports medicine
I was in a car accident in 96’. Had trouble with my back since. I had several surgeries on my back and I am still going thru rehab to this day. I try and stay up with all current technological upgrades to different surgeries and rehab thru my doctor. It seems, I may one day need surgery again. But I try and stay fit and in shape to hold off the surgery. You seem to learn a lot after going thru something like this. But I am no expert, by far. Just know a little and what was told to me from all the different doctors I’ve seen.
Another thing
is that I keep wondering why Leon isn’t our nickel corner? Just because he’s talented and “should” get a No. 1 or 2 position?
This is my problem (and lord knows I don’t have many) with Zimmer. He’s not very good at organizing his talent. Hall does too things well: he tackles and gets physical, and he sticks to his guy on short routes. That’s what a nickel does! Keep him on the quick route down low, and also hold him closer to the line of scrimmage so that he can help out in the run game. If he’s covering a No. 2 guy deep, he’ll get lost! Ahhhh!
It's time to sink or Zim.
by Pardon_My_French on Dec 8, 2010 9:05 PM EST reply actions
he has been our nickle
www.fantasydaddy.com
by Joe Goodberry on Dec 9, 2010 7:43 AM EST up reply actions
Not a lot
When he IS there, he’s awesome, but too often he plays the No. 2 guy.
It's time to sink or Zim.
by Pardon_My_French on Dec 9, 2010 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
Joseph at saftey
means alot more huge runs. Joseph is not going to tackle Ray Rice, Peyton Hillis, or pretty much any running back in the open field. Joseph, Hall, and Pacman are corners. And how is 3 solid corners bad, look how often 3 corners are on the field. Look how many teams base offense is now 3 recievers.
I think Reggie Nelson
Can be our FS here. The guy was good in Jax before they changed their Defense. Reggie isnt very physical but can be a serious ballhawk at FS. We need an upgrade at SS though. Ndukwe is not very good in coverage, Roy is a great leader on the field but he is about done.
Reggie Nelson..
plays with physicality and a mean streak. I’m glad he’s getting more playing time.
by 80%OFTHETIMEIMRIGHTEVERYTIME on Dec 10, 2010 9:27 AM EST up reply actions
He does play with a mean streak
I am so glad he is playing right now. For whatever reason this coaching staff think that a combo of Williams and Ndukwe is better to start. I should have said it better, that Nelson isnt as good of a in the box Safety as the others are instead of not being as physical. I think the guy is a keeper and would be the starter here with any other coach. Look at it this way he has 1 pick which matches Williams and Ndukwe with probably a 1/3 less snaps.
by Bengal Brian on Dec 10, 2010 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
I know I've used this analogy before...
…but we’d simply be “playing our slice” if we settled for moving one of our 1st-round CBs over to safety, rather than actually drafting a safety who can drop back into coverage AND bring the wood!
But there it is…we’re back to the 90s, talking about what we’ll settle for, rather than how to excel.
Yee HAW!

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