Just how upset are we? Really.
by JUNGLEJOHN on Dec 9, 2010 2:16 PM EST
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PrintI actually started this FanPost several times and, being unsure how it would be received, deleted it each time. Perhaps I should have done it again this time, but, not being one who is not afraid to err (nothing is accomplished by those afraid to fail) I think I just may have the fortitude to press the 'Publish' button below. If you read this I guess I did.
We, Democrat or Republican, Liberal or Conservative, have just witnessed, what I consider to be a major lesson in the past election. Love them - or - hate them the Tea Party movement illustrated the power of people who are fed up with politics as usual not just bitching and complaining but actually feeling so upset that they actually did something. How did they become effective? They put out the numbers. They became visible. They forced debate and demanded that they be heard. The drove their point home using the only weapons they have, public demonstration and the power of the one thing that politicians care about - their vote. The real point here is that real and impactfull demonstrations of their power, which they had all along but rediscovered, is required. They did it because the believed in their cause enough to act.
Just how much do we really care about the Bengal's situation? Obviously, just about everyone on this site wants things to change - a few perhaps enough to try to do something about it. In the past a few parties tried, but their efforts weren't strong enough and persistant enough to be effective. Too many of us sat on the sidelines and said "good for them, it is about time someone did something." As a result MB simply brushed it aside with a "this too will pass" attitude. There was no motivation to change as the effects on him were so minor that when told that the masses were hungry for wins he simply told them to eat losses.
This leads me to the question that is the title of this post. Just how upset are we? Really. Are we finally upset to the point where we will actually do something big enough and persistent enough that MB simple cannot ignore it? Something that not only gets MB's attention or the local media's attention but the national media and league office's attention? I will tell you right now that a few hunderd or even a few thousand active participants for a month or so will not get it done. It will take 10's of thousands for a long time. It has to be something that MB cannot ignore because it hits him too hard for too long where it hurts.
With the Tea Party it was the loss of votes that hurt by threatening the cushy power lifestyle of the individual politicians and went further to hurt their parent organization, in this case, the Democratic party and on to the President. They take the Tea Party seriously now, don't they?
How do we, if we decide to do it, go about it. I don't know - I must be honest. But I do have some ideas. Let me first of all say this, I am not interested in being the leader of any movement. I am kinda trolling for someone more skilled than I to help make something happen - if we are really that upset - and I am not sold on that yet.
We need to hit MB thru at least 4 different venues.
1. We need to appeal to his sense of fairness, tell him our concerns and ask him to consider our wishes. We have already done that to the point where he recenty issued a statement that, in essence, told us all to go to Hell.
2. We need to flood the league offices, not with e-mails, but physical mail, hand written. We need to let Goodell know that there is a new day in Cincinnati Bengal Nation and we are not just complaining. We are preparing to act. A few hundred will not do. It must be thousands a day. To the point where it cannot be ignored.
3. We need to flood the local media to the point where it is news. Set up fan demonstrations and rallys. We need to take out full page ads - not just once - but frequently. We need to find and support someone who can do a professional job of being the face of the movement and handle the finances, transactions and communication. (NOT ME!) Maybe 'Bulldog' Dieters or someone like him.
4. We need to back all of this up with the one thing that MB cannot ignore for long. We need to hit him in the pocket book. We need to stop buying Bengals related gear and stop going to Training Camp, Preseason games and regular season games. We need to focus a protest where for at least one or two games PB Stadium looks like a ghost town.
Here is the big question. Are we, the Bengals fans, willing to do that? Nothing short of a total effort will have any effect Are most of us going to say "well everyone else is participating - I don't need to?" Are we willing to go out to all of our friends and relatives and recruit them and allow this to fusion reaction - or will we let it fizzle? MB wants us to believe ,like the Borg, that resistance is futile. It isn't MB depends on a regular flow of big dollars and if we can cut his fan revenue by even as little as 30-40% he cannot ignore it. If only that percentage of Bengal fans join the 'cause' he would have to take note. Remember, there are other Bengal Sites (sorry Josh) where fans feel the same way. If we can all unite we CAN at least slap the guy who is insulting us.
If we are not willing to put enough of our effort - and a little bit of money (if 10 thousand contribute $1 that will but a full page add in a major paper) - into it then we simply need to shut the hell up and let Czar Brown continue to look down and laugh at us while we continue to suffer.
Okay, I have put this out there. Just how upset are we? Really. Are we sheep or wolves? Are we a storm to be reckoned with or simply a tempest in a teapot? I don't know, you tell me. I can only say that it isn't a requirement that we all stand tall but it seems to me that we at least need to stand up. Unless of course, we really don't care that much and aren't really as upset as we talk like we are. It that is the case I guess that is okay. But I will tell you something a very wise man - my father - told me when I was young. You deserve whatever you are willing to put up with.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors.
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Where do I send my dollar?
"When you chart (the plays) and see where it broke down there was no common theme to it." - Bob Bratkowski
My concern
1st, I am more upset this year than usual becuase I had expectations. I usually don’t have expectations, so any Bengals win is a bonus.
I am all for # 4, but I am no longer local to Cincinnati, and don’t have time to write a hand-written letter to the Commish.
In the end my main concern is the Bengals moving away from Cincinnati. In the end, I have winning from Ohio State (basketball and football), and from the Spurs, I had it for a while from the Cavs and now and the from the Reds.
Pro-football is my favorite sport, and the Bengals my favorite team. If the Bengals leave CIncinnati, we will not get a new team. I think Paul Brown loved Ohio Football, and MB respects his fathers wishes, but I think that MB is more likely to move the team than to hire a GM. In fact the best hope we have of change (excepting the death of MB) is for Marvin to convince him from within that we need at least a football-wise director of pro personnel.
I do not like the Bengals losing, but I do enjoy following the Bengals. I will lose that if the Bengals leave. MB is 72, and should die soon. At that point I hope we get better ownership, but MB is what we have. So I will take the 2003-2008 democrat role of “supporting the soldiers while not supporting the war” and support the team and hope the owner dies soon. I know this is bitter and jaded, but it is what it is. I hope Pete or Katie will hire a GM when they take over, knowing that they do not know about football the way Paul Brown did, but I don’t see another way right now, but to hope next year will be better.
It must be inordinately taxing to be such a boob. ~ The Brain
Why can't people get this through their heads,
MB can’t move at all.
He has a lease until 2030. If he did, he would have to pay the lease anyways. That’s way to expensive for him. He’ll be dead by 2025 or at least out of power.
He can renegotiate the lease
The city desperately wants to, since they got taken advantage of on the last one.
No he tried that.
I live in the county and it’s the county that is the landlord. The county told him that they will not renegotiated the contract. Mike brown wanted out of his lease in 2017 if the county would accept to renegotiate the contract saving the county 16 million dollars right now to help with the budget. He also wanted all rights to box seating and didn’t want to pay any more rent until the end of his contract in 2017. There are other little minor things discussed, but the county basically said you stuck it to us, so we are sticking it to you. We (the county) are keeping the current contract.
So he tried to swindle us again just b/c the county under budget right now.
I think it was posted earlier today
that he got out of the RIverfront deal because the city was late with a payment. He is apparently a much better lawyer than football guy.
It must be inordinately taxing to be such a boob. ~ The Brain
No that is false,
I don’t know where you heard that, but no it isn’t true. For one, it’s the county not the city that owns the stadium. Two, they have money set aside just for the stadium payments. That’s first priority.
There have been a lot of bickering going on between the two but it’s about maintenance and up keep on the stadium. Mike Brown hires contractors at will and slams the county with the bill. The county is trying to keep Mike Brown from spending our money freely or whenever he wants for maintenance. The county has trouble knowing what the budget is going to be b/c they don’t know how much and when Mike Brown is spending.
I think they were talking about
his previous Riverfront Stadium deal. Not the current PBS deal.
"When you chart (the plays) and see where it broke down there was no common theme to it." - Bob Bratkowski
By the way...
…now THAT’S how you talk about this particular subject…by merely presenting us with the facts, rather than actively wishing for that particular event to happen. Yeah, you know what I’m talking about. Nice job…I wholeheartedly agree.
by TheWalrus1971 on Dec 10, 2010 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
I respect your post jim...........
All except for one point (not counting the fact that MB can’t move the team). Don’t tell me you don’t have time to write a letter. It takes 5 minutes. What you are really saying is you are not motivated to do it. My point here was to test the “pisivity level” here. Like I said in my post – if you are willing to put up with it (Don’t have time to write a letter!) – you deserve it. Or maybe you really aren’t that upset – really. The point of my post.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
You are probably right in that I am not prioritzing it high enough to have time
After 19 years of MB I don’t expect the Bengals to win.
It must be inordinately taxing to be such a boob. ~ The Brain
Interesting, but it wouldn't work.
Do you REALLY think the entire city is going to revolt?
And one thing I want to mention is that I follow the Bengals because I like them. I’m not going to stop following them like this. I’ll just wait until MB’s reign is over and Katie hopefully hires a GM.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
Who said the entire city?
We need a good 40% of people to stop going to the stadium and buying Bengal merchandise.
What do you do when there's no way out? Find a way to get deeper in it.
by jimbasa on Dec 9, 2010 6:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
sounds like Jacksonville
but intentional
by smoormandiddy on Dec 9, 2010 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting perspective
I’d have to correct you on one thing though, which I think will add more relevance for us. The Tea Party movement was intended to directly address and reform the Republican Party (which has grown increasingly liberal and drifted from it’s original conservative principles) in order to defeat the Democratic Party in the long run. Part of this however meant taking a step back in some cases by taking out current office holders who would have been solid candidates (i.e. Christine O’Donnel).
What this means is we may have to accept taking a step back in fighting to get rid of Mike Brown.
And I think Whodeyrevolution has pretty much taken on this mission – though I’m not sure I entirely subscribe to them.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
I agree...
Just about everything mentioned above has been tried by WDR. The problem I think is not enough support. CincyJungle is to Pro-Bengal to make something like this happen.(Which is not a bad thing at all we all love the Bengals here) But who’s to say we can’t subscribe to the way both sites operate. Come to CincyJungle to discuss football related things and use WDR to fuel our revolt against Mike Brown. WDR already has the system in place to make a movement happen. Everyone should flood their site like we do this one and jump on board with ideas to be a prick in Mike Browns ass everywhere he looks and goes.
by JamesShively on Dec 16, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
That's the problem with WDR
They constantly attack Mike Brown in an unprofessional manner. That right there will never get it done. Not in a million years. Though they want the same, those who want change have to organize and do it in a respectful manner.
When someone is screaming and yelling and degrading you, you typically do the opposite or do nothing. When someone calmly explains and does things to force change being respectful, change is eminent. He will hear you and will have to listen. You have to do something to force change and it can be done. It will have to be a lot of us though, or it won’t happen.
So you're saying that this is not publicly polite and to the point?
Notice this says “Bengals” not “Mike Brown” and “Please” and “Dear” and “Love”. They began their mission trying to be polite and got no results. I’m sure they’re be willing to change tactics a little if more support and opinion was thrown at their cause.
by JamesShively on Dec 16, 2010 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
But they have the reputation of being obnoxious and direspectful.
A sign here and a sign there will never do anything. I see your point, but we need to change the WDR image and that image will not leave Mike Brown. Start fresh..
I'm willing to support anything that has the goal of the Bengals winning.
I’m not in a location that I could show up for formal meeting but I’d be glad to send a buck or two through pay pal whenever my wallet is big enough to do so.
by JamesShively on Dec 16, 2010 8:32 PM EST up reply actions
We are not just asking for money
it would be nice and some of us will donate, but we need more supporters for the cause. Email JJ at bengalsnextstep@yahoo.com and this weekend he will forward some of his ideas. It won’t cost anything to email him and we will take it from there and interact converse and roll with it. Of course, this will take some time to get rolling, so be patient.
Thanks James
Strangely, Not that Upset-- at least not at MB
First, let me say, the ‘90s are on Brown’s head — but I actually think the Brown-Marvin Lewis partnership has generally worked well. To wit:
In 2005, the Bengals had an elite offensive line, an opportunistic defense, an elite quarterback, elite receivers, and an above-average running back. Who, exactly, put all that talent together?
Did Mike Brown hit Carson’s knee and transform him into a shell of himself?
Did Mike Brown force Odell Thurman to party on the weekends?
Did Mike Brown cause Levi Jones’ precipitous decline?
Did Mike Brown turn Rudi into a craptastic shell of his former self?
Is Mike Brown responsible for the horrible injury luck we’ve had at safety?
Can you imagine if the 2005 Bengals had retained Takeo Spikes and Corey Dillon? Heck, Takeo would still be one of our best linebackers.
Net, the worst thing you can accuse Brown of is holding on to Bratkowski for too long. Whether this is on Brown or Lewis can be debated — but it’s really the only AWFUL move of the last 5-6 years. Even things that haven’t turned out well were calculated gambles:
Andre Smith — everyone agreed that the Bengals waited for the right risk/reward point on selecting him. He may turn out to be an all-pro down the line. (There’s a long history in the NFL of immature, overweight tackles rounding into shape 2-3 years in. Remember Willie in his early days?)
Letting Steinbach go — tough call here, but advanced metrics seemed to indicate he was the weakest link in the 2005 line. While he was great in the pulling run game, he was often overpowered at the point of attack.
Bringing Chris Henry back — I think hindsight here is 20/20 — but remember how much debate at the time — “How could MB undermine ML?” – but can anyone really argue that giving Chris another chance was the wrong thing to do? Watching the special on his organ donation over Thanksgiving was incredible.
Ditto PacMan. Calculated risk.
Net— this has been a terribly disappointing year — no doubt about it. But, the Bengals have been competitive. Look at their games vs. the Saints, Falcons, Steelers, Ravens, etc. Only the Jets game has been truly horrid.
Talent acquisition for this team has been solid the last 6-7 years. Note that the safety that our coaches cut (Corey Lynch) is actually starting for a playoff-contending team, while the safeties that we kept can stay on the field. (You saw how important good safety play was in the Jets vs. Patriots game. Think that score happens if the Jets have Leonhard on the field? Why do we keep giving up 20+ yard runs? Who stops those? Oh, right, safeties.)
The OLine is undermanned, but that can be fixed. We’ve got theoretically great skill players on offense. The Dline is theoretically good – but with Tank out and Peko having a sub-par year, we’re struggling here. Note that the bright lights are recent draft picks — Dunlap and Atkins. Corners? Two of the best in the league, and great depth with Trent and Jones. Linebackers? Up and coming. I still think Muckelroy is future player.
Infusions of talent in Free Agency: D. Jones, B. Johnson, T.O., Tank, R. Williams, C. Crocker, A. Jones, M. Nugent, etc…check.
You can’t complain that the guy isn’t trying damned hard. If we’re healthy, we compete this year — period. There’s plenty of talent on this team — but frankly, they’re not well-coached at all points — especially on offense. (I wonder at other teams that occasionally have wide receivers actually 3-4 yards away from the nearest defender and accomplish this by motion, or picks, or route combinations. When is the last time you saw a Bengal receiver wide open?)
Yes, they need more scouting. Yes, a general manager would probably lead to more consistent talent evaluation. Yes, MB needs to have a quicker trigger on firing inept assistants. 1991-2001? Absolutely Mike Brown’s fault. 2010? No way. There’s enough talent to win on this roster, and there’s theoretically good enough coaching to do so as well (except for Bratkowski), excellent trainers, and facilities.
So, really, other than upgrading the scouting department, get a better medical staff, and build an indoor practice facility do you really want here? I know we can’t seem to find a pass-rushing end, but it ain’t easy. Go ask the Jets- or the Patriots — two teams with great talent eval who also struggle to find pass rushers on the dline.
I, of course, expect this to get shot down in flames. But before you shoot — ask yourself, honestly, is 2010 Mike Brown’s fault? In one sense — since he’s the President and GM, absolutely — the buck stops with him - but in the sense of, “Did his incompetence fail to give us a chance of winning” I think not. I don’t expect that to be a popular sentiment- but I think it’s true.
Oh yeah, “Bratkowski delenda est.”
Bratkowskie and blowing up the 2005 O-line
are direct factors that have doomed our team and are both Mike Browns fault. Not letting Marvin have his choice of OC (Hugh Jackson) is 100% MB’s fault. Having no FB for the running game- 100% MB’s fault. Lack of attention to O-line…MB’s fault…Continually overpaying for unproductive free agents after they have 1 good year- 100% MB’s fault. NO GM, indoor facility, scouting dept- 100% MB’s fault. Continually undermining our coaching staff from accomplishing their goals due to direct influence over player personnel and coaching staff- 100% MB’s fault….
Did i miss anything thats not his fault…oh yeah, Penalties, Mental Mistakes and costly turnovers are not his fault but thats about it.
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
But even by extension, they're his fault.
When he undermines his coaches exactly like you’ve said, it’s his fault.
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
"Bratkowskie and blowing up the 2005 O-line are direct factors that have doomed our team and are both Mike Browns fault."
Bratkowski, yes. The offensive line? Not really. Richie Braham’s career ended with an injury, Levi Jones, Willie Anderson and Bobbie Williams were given extensions. The only case that could be made here is Eric Steinbach.
The greater argument here is why the Bengals didn’t blow the line up sooner? By keeping Jones and Willie, they pushed off both player’s inevitable slide — in Levi’s case, injury and in Willie’s case, age.
The team has done a poor job of rebuilding the offensive line since 2005, instead signing a collection of undrafted free agents to repair leaks on the line. THAT is the greater point that should be made here.
Managing Editor at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Josh Kirkendall on Dec 15, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
fair enough
but i’m still putting that on Mike Brown ;)
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
I think the core of our problem with talent is the backups
everyone focuses on the starters, but where MB really sets us up for failure is his refusal to spend money on adequate backups or scouting to identify sleepers. Imminently, these backups have to play due to injuries and rotations and I feel there is a much greater dropoff in talent there compared to other teams. I feel teams like the Steelers/Ravens have backups who are almost interchangeable with the starters. For instance, right now the Steelers are playing without their top three OT’s, yet are continuing to win while we complain about the loss of one RT (Smith).
Case and Point, look at our backups: Roland at RT, Mathis and a couple rookies with no experience at the interior offensive line, Caldwell, Simpson, and Cosby at Reciever, a bunch of no-names at LB (with the exception of Brandon Johnson who really doesn’t fit in well with his vastly different game), Kelly (who lacks any strong offensive threat) at TE, the Nelsons at FS. The only positions I’d say we’re really strong at in reserves are DT and CB.
In terms of starters, yes I think we’re pretty competitive, but like everything else that people don’t see on the surface, MB nickels and dimes us. I believe one of the major reasons we were successful last year – in contrast to other years – was due to our exceptional health which mitigated the effects of our inadequate backups.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
RE: backups at talent (defense)
I don’t know about defense. Look at this year’s backup defensive players.
Backup defensive tackles: Pat Sims and Geno Atkins
Backup defensive ends: Carlos Dunlap, Jonathan Fanene, Michael Johnson
Backup linebackers: Brandon Johnson, Roddrick Muckelroy,
Backup safeties: Chinedum Ndukwe, Reggie Nelson
Backup corners: Adam Jones, Morgan Trent, Brandon Ghee
Managing Editor at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Josh Kirkendall on Dec 15, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
"For instance, right now the Steelers are playing without their top three OT’s, yet are continuing to win while we complain about the loss of one RT (Smith)."
Hummm… but most analysis and evaluators say the same thing. The worst part of the Steelers right now is their offensive line. And win they might be, but it’s not because of their offense, who’s only scored two TDs in like 35 straight possessions.
Managing Editor at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Josh Kirkendall on Dec 15, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
2005 and 2009 were flukes
Those seasons the planets aligned just right for the team. We’re perpetually 2 or 3 pieces away from a competitive team, sometimes a completely different 2 or 3 pieces at different times throughout the season. Mike Brown can’t move fast enough in filling needs or evaluating existing or potential talent. Mike Brown doesn’t have a clear outline of what this team is supposed to look like in order to find the personnel to fit within that outline. We’ve got a chaotic mess of different experiments brewing throughout the team, constantly changing player positions, gambling on disgraced players and iffy draft picks, and retaining coaches because of the quality of their loyalty despite their skill. This team is sloppy and slow moving in direct reflection of it’s GM.
by Alex Marshall on Dec 9, 2010 5:23 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
very well said
"When you chart (the plays) and see where it broke down there was no common theme to it." - Bob Bratkowski
It wasn't the planets...
It wassn’t the planets aligning it was the NFC North. Both times the Bengals made the playoffs it was in the year that they faced the NFC North. Remember in 2005 the Bengals secondary had 5 take aways in each game against the NFC North. The next season they dropped to 8-8. 2009 they faced the NFC North again and had a top 5 defense only to drop again the next year.
I have said this soo many times it gets old.....
Mike Brown runs this organization like a Mom and Pop shop while other organizations are run like fortune 500 companies. The Franchise is valued at $905 million. He’s making a ton of money but lacking one vital ingredient to success. MB’s culture of losing is the primary reason the Bengals are terrible. When organizations are in different points in their life cycles, they need different styles of leadership. CEOs are changed every 3-5 years. MB has been at the helm for about 20yrs.
For the sake of debates.
Awesome counter points.
Managing Editor at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Josh Kirkendall on Dec 15, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
Agree to a point..
I think the problem is that the coaching staff doesn’t trust the backups, and therefore doesn’t develop them. Even now, with the season out of reach, there doesn’t seem to be any impetus to develop players who are key to the future.
If you’re going to move Rey to MLB, why not do it now and see how it goes? The season is over — let’s see what he’s got. Put Muckelroy on the field. Put Simpson on the field — Cosby has been more than adequate when he gets a shot.
…and the Steelers and the Ravens aren’t the same team without their frontline players. What happened to the Steelers when Polamalu was out last year? Harrison sure didn’t look like an MVP last year, did he? They can replace folks on offense — because, honestly, their offense stinks. They can’t just swap people out on defense because, well, their offense stinks.
Where do you think the Ravens would be without Ray Rice? How have they done without Ed Reed? Think they can just replace Ray Lewis?
OLine depth could be deeper, but I’m still confused by coaching decisions — Collins was a decent (if not overpowering) RT a couple of years back, and looks ok when he’s on the field — and yet we keep getting more of Roland.
Net, imagine, if you will, Levi Jones, playing at a high level at LT — Witworth at RT, an Remington Trophy winner at Center (we drafted one, remember), Bobbie at RG — with Kyle Cook, Andre Smith, Collins, etc.. in reserve. Again, it’s not that the offensive line hasn’t been addressed, but a combination of bad luck (Lugis, L. Jones — keep in mind, no-one saw him declining as fast as he did) and strange decisions by the coaching staff have left us where we’re at.
I used to love the fact that Brian Kelly at UC split each week of practice between his starter and his backup QB — knowing that he’d need both of them. Makes him look like a genius when Collaros comes in and saves the day. One wonders why the Bengals coaching staff won’t do the same.
Ed Reed has only played maybe 3 games this year
Ignoring the offense (who by the way didn’t have Roethlesberger for the first 4 games), Pittsburgh has lost Aaron Smith, their premier DE. I believe their NT, Hampton also missed a bunch of games earlier this year. And I imagine both teams have suffered numerous other injuries to their starting defense at various times.
I do remember Luigs was the Remington winner, though if I remember right, he was a controveral winner and wasn’t projected to be that high of a draft pick either.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
Steelers Offense stinks?
Remember, the first 4 games without BB and we were 3-1! And last year, Aaron Smith went down too..You can say the O-Line stinks and Arians sucks and you will have all of steeler nation behind you!
A man is innocent untill proven guilty...Even if it's Ben Roethlisberger!
'I rather have a German division in front of me than a French division behind me'..General George Patton
" I don't care if he has two horns and a tail, as long as he is anti-communist"..General Douglas MacArthur..
"The way to end our dependence on foreign oil is to keep our tires properly inflated"....B. Hussein Obama
"Government is not the solution to our problems, it is the cause of them" Ronald Wilson Reagan..40th President of the United States
by nycsteelerfan on Dec 9, 2010 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
Other than that Tampa Bay game, which I will never understand and never quite will, you won a lot of that on your Special Teams and Defensive Player.
15-9 win over the Falcons where it was three field goals until Mendenhall finally broke one.
19-11 win over the Titans which was mostly won on a trick play on the starting kickoff.
Both of those weren’t as much as your offense lighting up the world as it was your defense just holding down the fort until things righted themselves.
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
This is laughable
Mike Brown will treat complaint letters like bird sh*t on his arm, then go about his business.
You either take the Bengals+ Mike Brown warts and all, or you find some other activity to replace being a Bengals fan. Mike Brown will never accommodate you. He makes too much money, too easily to consider changing.
Wouldn’t you too?
The point her is to do something to make him earn a lot less.
What do you do when there's no way out? Find a way to get deeper in it.
by jimbasa on Dec 9, 2010 7:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I like the original post
I am willing to write that protest letter. No problem. I am also ready to walk away after 30 years after seeing MB’s latest response to a concerned season ticket holder. He is the owner and can do what he wants, but I also have the right as a fan to root for a team that is trying to win. He finally proved to me once and for all that he’s not. He’s just trying to “stay competitive,” which means one and out in the playoffs. He just cancelled out all obligation any Bengals fan ever had to this team by proving once and for all that he could care less about a Super Bowl. I’m on the edge, and if Bob B isn’t gone, I will be. I deserve, as a fan, to be rooting for a team that has a goal of winning it all, all the time.
by BonnieBengal on Dec 9, 2010 7:04 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
You need some "rec's" here Bonnie
I too, agree with everything you said and will do the same.
by WHYUS!! on Dec 9, 2010 7:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks
We need to do something, and if he still won’t budge, we need to walk away. In this age of NFL Sunday Ticket and the internet, it is not necessary to live in the city where the team is located. I deserve a team that’s trying to win.
I live outside the US right now
And Gamepass is awesome!
by Alex Marshall on Dec 9, 2010 7:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I,m right with ya
I will do what ever is needed to get someones attention in the front office of the Bengals to do what is right and that is put a winning product on that field every year not every 7 or 8 years. If it means not going to PBS, so be it. If it means not purchasing any new Bengals apparel, so be it. I dont know about you guys, but I am tired of getting smacked in the face from the POS owner known as Mike Brown. Let that SOB sit on the edge of his seat for awhile and see how it feels.
Down with Mike Brown the Clown.
by James Schmid the great on Dec 10, 2010 12:29 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with you Bonnie,,,I am soooo done!!!
I’m done posting and hoping and anything else. While I won’t choose another team so much so, I like football in general, so I will watch some games and read some of your posts for the rest of this year and remain reserved. But just like I quit being a true Basketball fan when the Royals left town, I can quit this sport as well.
Now I can just go golfing on Sundays and read the box score with little interest.
Peace and hairgrease everybody!!! And a Merry Christmas!
"Bratkowski-- Off with his head!!!"
I still follow the Royals
via KC and now Sacramento. It’s ironic that this franchise is run by owners very similar to the Brown family (the Maloofs). The big difference is that they do hire a GM and they just pack up and leave (they are soon going to leave again if they don’t get a city funded arena!) when things don’t go their way.
"When you chart (the plays) and see where it broke down there was no common theme to it." - Bob Bratkowski
you mean like every other franchise in the NFL
Maybe not Buffalo?
"When you chart (the plays) and see where it broke down there was no common theme to it." - Bob Bratkowski
I thought this was a Bengals website, not a political blog
as someone who was criticized for going off topic on this site a while ago, I feel justified now in calling others on it. LOL
In regards to the original post, I love the idea, but if nothing has swayed mb yet, nothing will in the short time he has left. I sincerely hope to be wrong, but I think we’re ‘stuck with him’ until he checks out.
You're not stuck with anything.
If you choose to put up with this, it’s your choice, but you are not stuck. You have every right to walk away. The team owner has not given you, me or anyone else any reason to stay a fan of the Bengals. You root for a team because you want it to win, and if that is not anywhere near the top of the owner’s priority, then you have the right to move on. But don’t say you’re “stuck” if you stay. That’s on you.
I was quoting
that supposed letter from mike brown to a season ticket holder. I guess that wasn’t clear, but I thought the quotations made it so. In regards to walking away, sometimes I really want to, but I just can’t. The bengals are similar to an addiction or a really bad habit….life would be a lot easier if you just gave it up, but you always end up coming back. WHO-DEY!
by Phil Francis on Dec 10, 2010 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
I kind of view them
I kind of view them as a trouble child. You tend to stick with them and keep hoping they will turn their life around, but every time you end up disappointed.
You'll note that *somebody* just went through and fixed the thread, Phil...
The rules on this site are clear: Folks have plenty of online avenues to discuss politics. This is a Bengals blog site.
No, I didn’t rip everything out by the guts that said Tea Party on it, but I tried to separate “using it as an example” from “advocacy.” I tried to be as fair as I could, and I don’t play favorites because I don’t really know any of you anyway.
So there. Carry on…
by TheWalrus1971 on Dec 10, 2010 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
Sorry JJ it won't work
The tea party idea was successful to depose politicians but MB has in essence a sole proprietorship.
#1: The team is a privately owned entity. MB can do anything he wants and we have no bargining power to reason or discuss ‘his’ team.
#2: A deluge of paper, media blitzes, etc. will be shit canned by the commissioners office….probably from zip code origin without even opening the envelope or email messages.
#3: Ditto number two……. plus do you think local tv and radio stations will stand with a small percentage of their multi million viewing/listening audience to gamble on losing advert dollars and to get on the wrong side of public team bashing.
#4: Boycot Bengals goods perhaps but what do you say to your kids who want a Chad, Rey, CP9 jerseys, get another team son I’m sorry but we’re boycottying The Bengals? I don’t think that will work. I live in Columbus and I hate it that a large percentage of the fan base is Steelers….I mean this is Ohio and Cincy is 90 miles away!
Lack of sellouts will affect somewhat but at what percentage occupancy. I say the budget break even ticket sales is somewhere in the 40% range. So MB still makes money with 25,000 fans per game. A nice thing about this scenario when we have Browns preferred game telecasts, I go to BW3’s and watch all games for a lot less than a ticket at the game, cheaper beer prices, free parking, televised on huge projection tv’s and a variety of food served to me at my table or bar seat.
My assessment is…… we’re just ….F@#KED plain and simple.
Ok - Ok - Ok Good Grief!!
First of all, I only mentioned the Tea Party as an example of the fact that a committed group of people who feel passionate enough to really get involved can make a difference – why? Because it is the only thing in the history that ever has. It is a good thing that our founding fathers didn’t have the same attitude. “We can’t fight England”, “It will never work”, “I don’t have time for a revolution – what a pain in the ass”. “Oh, I want independance but let someone else do it.”
I find it rather interesting that almost every post over the last six weeks has had a comment about how MB is the problem. When called to task all of a sudden well – not so much.
Believe me – if MB all of a sudden lost 35-40% of his revenue he would have to address a solution. 35-40% is huge.We can do it. We just won’t do it. It will never happen because, as much as we bitch and complain we are not committed to doing anything because we really aren’t that upset.
I mentioned what I felt would have to be done and “I get, it won’t work,” “MB isn’t really the problem”," interesting idea but – yawn", " I don’t have time to write a letter". and a bunch of posts about the political aspects of the Tea Party which is not at all the point.! One person – bonnie – and only one person said they were down with doing something. Good for you Bonnie. I am proud of you.
This is actually pretty well what I expected to find. Many people want to see change but they will use any explanation necessary to not actually get involved in changing it. My suspicion is that we really are, for the most part, (not you bonnie) just a bunch of sheep who are content wallowing in our self pitying misery. I said at the beginning that I was hesitant to post this. I guess I was more content thinking this was the case than I am now pretty well knowing it for sure. If there is nothing that we are willing to actually do that has a chance of making a difference, then the only potential benefit of all of our complaining is merely psychological. Hey, thats okay. Lets just be honest about it.
So, to answer the question of the title of this post . We are very upset – but not really – not enough to even try to do something about it – other than bitch of course. You wonder how MB can essentially tell us to go to hell and get away with it. This is why. It isn’t that we can’t do something to change things – it is because he knows we won’t. We deserve whatever we are willing to put up with. My dad, God rest his soul, was a pretty smart man.
Yes sofakingood we are F@#KED but not because of MB but because of us. Many of you are fundamentally saying that if rape is inevitable you may as well relax and enjoy it and cry about it later.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
by JUNGLEJOHN on Dec 9, 2010 11:20 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
But that's the thing about inevitability.
Being inevitable means that it’s going to happen and there’s no changing that.
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
I really can't think of anything that is inevitable.....
I have heard death and taxes are but who can say for sure that happens after we sluff off this mortal coil and if you pay taxes you just need a better accountant. Hell, almost 50% of the public don’t pay the IRS. Thinking that way is simply the foundation for an excuse to do nothing..
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
No, I'm not excusing it, just pointing out your word usage here. Not the greatest analogy you want to use.
Or maybe it is and I’m being silly. Regardless! People have been trying to figure out how to do something like this for over twenty years. I can guarantee no Bengals fan willingly sat through this and thought “how can I make things better?” Simply saying something like “don’t buy things,” “stuff mailboxes,” etc. aren’t the sure-fire fix because people have to have thought of them before and if we’re still stuck with Brown now, then you know it didn’t work.
But I agree with you: there has to be something we can do besides wait him out. The question is: what?
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
Hey Mr. Scratch,
Do me a favor and watch the Movie The Patriot with Mel Gibson…
It’s all about uniting and staying that way. Not stopping until something changes. You see, we are people that unite when we want change. So history is told. We have united before and wrote letters, boycott the games and not buying anything. Then what we get is change, but not what is necessary to change what we actually want. All it does is mask the situation. Some changes (like a coaching change) but nothing in the front office. It’s still the same ole’ business as usual for Mike Brown. It’s called staying the course. We haven’t united and stayed united in order for the change we want.
It’s as if, “We The People” lost what it is to change things as we want them.
I’ll tell you a brief story about my life:
I as a young father wanted a better life for my son. So I fought for custody of him and won it. I, as a single male had little chance in the court of law and being from a different state. But being persistent and a thorn in the courts side along with being a thorn in an improper mothers side, was able to show that what the current situation was for my son was wrong and incomprehensible and what the courts were allowing was absurd. It took years of persistence and years of showing that I cared. It was only then they understood what I was talking about.
So what JJ is talking about is being persistant and not letting your foot of the gas until we get the change we want. But we all have to stay UNITED DOING THIS.. Or at least 40% of us b/c that is what it’s going to take.
I’m pissed off enough, are you?
Why does nobody seem to get that it's not inevitable for YOU
Mike Brown can do whatever he wants, but each of us as individuals do NOT have to put up with it. We can make an informed decision to walk away until something is done. Football is about trying to win. If the team isn’t trying to bring home a championship all the time, then I want to root for an organization that is. Mike Brown produces a product, and that product is the Cincinnati Bengals. He has done a little to improve the product by bringing on a few players that might help, but he won’t do as much as his competitors do to improve their products. Their products get better coaching, better facilities, better medical care, so their products are going to be superior. Why shouldn’t I purchase (or support and root for) a more superior product? Especially after 30 plus years of supporting a product that has for the most part, not performed that well? You are in charge of you. Mike Brown can’t keep us from walking away.
by BonnieBengal on Dec 10, 2010 7:21 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Bonnie, of course, we can simply walk away, but we won't.
Some people suffer under the delusion that we choose to care about someone or something thru some logical process or some Pavlovian pleasere feel good response like a dog salivating when a bell rings. We are Bengals fans and most all of us will die Bengals fans. It can be very frustrating to be held in some sort of force field that we would logically like to put behind us. We can’t – we don’t know why – and frankly, I consider it one of the human amimal’s most endearing qualities.
We are here under MB’s thumb and we have only two choices. Accept being mired in Bengal fan misery (pain can lead to pleasure?) or we can try to do something about it.
The whole point of this FanPost was to take the temperature of fandom here on this site. Simply put, I was curious.
If I found the temperature high among a high percentage of posters, maybe I would have done something (I don’t know what) to stir the coals into a larger flame and advanced to the more pragmatic. I didn’t worry to much about the next step as I expected the response to be pretty well what it was – lukewarm and casual with a smattering of self pity garnished by a few such as featherman, WHYUS and and a few others such as yourself.
The reason all previous attempts have failed, including Whodeyrevolution’s, is that it was simply not significant enough. (kudos to them for trying though). That effort, the strongest to date amounted to a puppy pissing on MB’s shoes. He simply kicked it away and motioned Katie and Marvin to wipe off the mess. His reaction, believe me, would be far different if that puppy that pissed on his shoes was became a pitbull with his jaws wrapped around MB’s nads.
That would take big time effort and committment. Everyone on this site would not be enough. It would take an organized effort involving all of the Bengals sites and all of their posters along with the recruitment of everyone they can convince. That would take passion, determination, and organization.
I just threw a stone into the water to see if the ripples would die out or build into a tidalwave. If ever people here want to get serious I would try to help it take the next step before handing it off to someone more capable and talented than I. Hey, someone has to throw the first stone into the pond. I did and to this point it appears that the ripples are fading. The funny thing is, every Bengals site I visit has posters with similar attitudes. The first thing I would probably have done is call for the uniting of all of our forces under one banner on a site that most welcomes it.
But, hey, I tried. If you guys and gals want to move it forward – cool – let me know. If you don’t – well that’s cool too. We can just wait for MB to die I guess, but I hold little hope that Katie will be any better.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
I've posted this a few times, but I think:
that the Bengals are now not so much a team as they are a scam perpetrated on the NFL and the city of Cincinnati by Mike Brown. They were a team under Paul. They are only a money making scam under Mike. And I’m tired of being scammed.
by BonnieBengal on Dec 12, 2010 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Family
Many of us around here view the Bengals as FAMILY and we my complain about a family member but we don’t want to abandon them when they are in need. So we suffer with that family member hoping that they will turn their live around and again make the family proud.
Or you intervein and show some tough love followed up with support.
Hope in one hand and crap in the other and see which one fills up first.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
If this is a family then Mike Brown is the abusive father
He doesn’t give a damn about the fans. He takes and takes and takes, and we give. So if this is a family, then the only healthy thing to do would be to leave him.
by BonnieBengal on Dec 13, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
Unfortunately...
…cities have no ability to file for divorce from the abusive father that is the owner of their beloved NFL team.
by TheWalrus1971 on Dec 13, 2010 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
But fans do
That’s why I walk if they keep Bratkowski and I won’t be back til he’s gone.
by BonnieBengal on Dec 13, 2010 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
Hey JJ
I appreciate where you’re coming from, because it sucks for all of us to be on the butt end of worst organization in the league (one of the worst in all sports). However, I’m skeptical that a letter writing campaign would have much effect on our great leader (sarcasm). The Bengals are not a public institution like the government and so Mike Brown doesn’t depend on our votes, and he obviously doesn’t care about his popularity. The only way to hurt him is to not buy Bengals stuff, and frankly, I’m poor and don’t buy much Bengals stuff anyway.
I want change, but I don’t think that there is anyway to force it. Mike Brown, the giant douche, is here to stay. Let’s pray that he dies before they figure out how to grow and transplant organs in labs – or before they learn how to do that thing in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles where Krang (the disembodied brain), goes around trying to take over the world.
This is our year!
by Paul Cannon on Dec 10, 2010 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
I was wondering what that image reminded me of.
I was honestly thinking Digimon…
Joe Reedy: "Supposedly Marvin could not find his flag to challenge the call. I am not kidding. #bengals"
How about starting a campaign
to boycot the last home game of the season. I’m willing to write a letter(realy shouldn’t be hard or time consuming), send in up to $5 for Ad space, and stop buying Bengal paraphernalia. However, I don’t live in Cincinnati any longer. My contributions will be via long distance.
Something else that has not been mentioned is that MB doesn’t own 100% of the team. John Sawyer owns a minority of the team so MB does have to answer to his stock holder(s).
"When you chart (the plays) and see where it broke down there was no common theme to it." - Bob Bratkowski
featherman, imagine the effect of 10,000 fans willing to do what you are willing to do
$50,000 and 10,000 letters a week to Roger Goodell. Full or half page ads in USA today. That would be impossible for the national media to ignore. Commentary on Sportcenter and TV sports and news media. Hell, maybe Bill Oreilly and NFL network. A public response from MB, attention and possibly a response from Goodell himself. There are a couple of million Bengals fans Only 1% would be 20,000 people. If everyone thinks this is not doable they had better think again. It would, however take someone more personable and skilled than I to pull it off and it would take a courageous and reputable man of legal skill and promotional savy to give people the confidence that their $1 to $5 donations, pooled into a 6 figure warchest would be handled well. Hell, I would be in for $100 if it ever got that far. Those who can’t afford to send funds can do their part by writing letters (hand written is always more effective) and showing up at any events that are organized. MB would laugh off 100 people but he would have to respond to 20,000. Imagine if only 5% of all Bengals fans participated and that is not out of the question. 100,000 people around PB stadium would make this a big – huge – deal. MB would have a hard time driving his 95 Lumina thru it. MB can be moved. Hell Goodell might even address the crowd – who knows. Media attention draws those who feed off of it.
On the Bengals Insider site right now, there is a guy, Smellkipper, who is already trying something similar. There is interest and the time is right. Next year will be a year of big changes in the Bengal organization.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
by JUNGLEJOHN on Dec 10, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Tell me where to send my $5
"Shiny. Let's be bad guys."
by KentuckianaBrowncoat on Dec 12, 2010 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
Go to the e-mail address bengalsnextstep@yahoo.com
We are taking names and beginning to organize. E-mail me and I explain the plan to you.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
Hit MB in the wallet
I question the effect that letter writing and protesting will have, especially given Brown’s recent response to that season ticket holder. But that will not stop me from writing a letter this weekend, because I agree with the OP that SOMETHING must be done.
My belief is that we as fans cannot promote change unless we hit Mike Brown where he’s most vulnerable, in his wallet. As others have pointed out, he’s not an elected official and we can’t vote him out. In a sense, though, we can vote with our wallets, but only if there’s a significant effort to organize the fans and get as many people as possible to do it.
Another way to hit him in the wallet
Call me naive, but with very few exceptions, if you’re a football player in the National Football League, you prefer to win. At least you like winning better than losing. For a significant percentage of players, however, losing keeps you up at night. It eats at you until you can figure out a way to change the situation, either by turning your own team around or finding another team that places an emphasis on rings and Lombardi trophies. Usually, that type of player is part of the leadership of the team…the players that might be elected to be a player rep to the NFLPA.
NOW you see where I’m going with this, don’t you?
As I type, the NFL Owners and the NFLPA are in the trenches negotiating the new Collective Bargaining Agreement. The NFLPA (for whom I have never displayed any love in the past) could demand that ANY money received by smaller-market teams from the Jerry Joneses of the world through this twisted wealth redistribution scheme revenue sharing policy of theirs would go straight to ensuring that the team will, in fact, make themselves competitive with the rest of the league.
Metrics would include contributions by front office personnel, facilities improvement (indoor practice facility, anyone?), reduction of season-ending injuries (Marquee players don’t like to go to IR…strength and conditioning team improvements, anybody?) and most importantly, 50% of the “grade” would be tied directly to your team’s win-loss record! You win…you get the cash. You perennially put a team of big fat losers on the field…you can do it without siphoning money off of other teams who could put it to better use WINNING.
Players on large-market teams would like it because it prevents their team owner from having to surrender money that might otherwise be used on their own winning culture. Players on small-market teams would like it because it would enforce the creation of that same winning culture.
We’ve thought about writing letters to Mike Brown. We’ve thought about writing letters to Roger Goodell. Has anybody thought about writing a letter to DeMaurice Smith???
So far, the only exception to what I’ve laid out is: what if you’re on a large-market team that, for whatever reason, doesn’t currently have that kind of winning culture AND has to surrender money to other smaller-market teams? But that’s just an exception to the theory — I can’t actually think of the large-market team that would fit that description at this point.
Somebody shoot a hole in this. Thanks!
by TheWalrus1971 on Dec 10, 2010 4:27 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
couldn't agree more
right now we can’t hit brown in the pocketbook because of revenue sharing. he made it through the 90s just fine. and even if the stadium is half empty next year he’ll continue to make money because other organizations know how to run a football team.
an example of the large market team you described is the redskins. they are one of the some profitable franchises despite always sucking
Ah! Yeah...good one...'Skins.
I knew there was somebody I was forgetting.
by TheWalrus1971 on Dec 12, 2010 12:32 AM EST up reply actions
For anyone who is serious, I am..
Mike Brown
One Paul Brown Stadium
Cincinnati, OH 45202
And this will be posted frequently
No, Iam not a WDR poster, I’ve never been to their site. Enough is Enough! Let’s roll!
by WHYUS!! on Dec 10, 2010 6:37 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
WHYUS, WDR fails because they are taking the wrong approach
Their site has MB as Che and is fill of insulting smack. Whenever you take that tact you will fail because if you act like a non professional it is easy to dismiss you. They were dismissed because the look like amgry children and thugs that didn’t get their way. Their effort was also too small.
The change we want to see will require a much bigger effort, divorced from the WDR site. I would love their support but I think they are more like an angry mob than a legitimate force.
If I were MB I would not have responded either.
For any effort to have a chance it needs to be big and, most of all, professional. A legitimate face needs to be put in front of a very strong – 20% active participation, well financed and united. Given the right effort MB will melt like a Nazi looking at the Arc of the Covenant.
There steps to be taken but I will need a real show of hands before I go any further. A half assed effort is simply not worth my time. Give me 50 posters who say they are all in and I have some kind of an idea of how we can combine out talents and efforts to take the next step. There is no need to panic – but we need to start.
Give me 50 and we can then discuss it. This will take an organized effort – not a sporadic one. Our front man has to be a professional in a 3-piece suit who people will take seriously. Nobody we need will get involved unless we convince them that we are serious.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
e-mail me at bengalsnextstep@yahoo.com Tru
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
just fired you one from my work email
body of my email explains.
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
I'm in - 2
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
I will write.
We need to write Goodell too and complain about the scam that is the Bengals.
by BonnieBengal on Dec 12, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
My plan
Is to write a letter a week to each Mike Brown, and Roger Goodell. I live in Cleveland, but want to write anyone with a large media role in Cincy, that might address the situation. Does anyone have any ideas who in the local media would be worth writing and might actually be on bored. Also, I agree with JungleJohn with the need for someone to handle funds and put them to good use. WDR seems to have done a good job with that in the past, but not anything recently, any idea if they are going to start up Project Mayhem round 2?
i can't believe i'm going to type this
but you could always write and send letters to James Walker. Yes he’s a moron, yes he’s a bengal hater, but he’s also a journalist——if we caused a big enough stink w/letters of protest to him he’d eventually start writing about/covering our displeasure…..and tons of eyes and ears still listen to “the worldwide leader in sports”
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
Could work
And im sure he would love to report on how Cincy fans are throwing in all hope for a good team.
yup, you smell what i'm steppin in
also could fire off some well written emails to PFT and Deadspin…although neither are considered “respectful” sports sites, they would still get lots of press and my friends and I actually had some emails going back n forth w/the main editors when the Big Ben golf/pee story broke, so they do interact w/ the public to an extent
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
A lot of things will work Tru, but we need to all speak with one voice..........
that all concerned will take notice of. A full page add in USA Today would have Walker calling us.So would 30,000 people at fountain square. A few letters or e-mails are easily ignored. The right message, nation wide, in the right venue would enlist the help of national sports figures in the media and the news. If you prime the pump impact fully enough media attention will come out of the woodwork. We need to call MB out publicly with such force that he cannot ignore it and make him understand he cannot have business as usual and u, along with our money as fans. We can do it but the effort needs to be totally organized and professional.
A letter to Walker isn’t a bad thing. It is a good thing, But I say get his attention and let him write to us. Believe me he would love to wrote about it. Jim Rome would love to talk about it, PTI would jump on it. But it has to be news – not the same old half assed “We Bengals fans are sad routine.” It has to be " We are mad as hell and we aren’t going to take it anymore" from a unified serious group of 50,000 fans.
The problem is getting Bengals fans to work together is like getting cats to walk in a parade.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
how much is one of those full-page ads, again?
then again, WDR tried billboards and towing banners behind planes (to say nothing of the — I think GENIUS — urinal cakes) which I’m sure cost beaucoup bucks, and those merited a short feature on the local news sites, rather than generating nationwide attention.
National media cover Bengals games, so they SEE the tenor of the fan base. They see the banners hanging from the upper decks saying things like, “SON OF A SAINT — A GM HE AIN’T” …and… “MIKE IS NO MORE PAUL THAN DAVE WAS DON!” and all they can do is just laugh, talk about “the Bungles,” and try to get former Bengals like Esiason, Collinsworth and Muñoz to run down their former teams on live television, but beyond that…they don’t seem very interested in using their positions, microphones or bully pulpits (in the case of Rome) to affect any changes in the Bengals front office.
by TheWalrus1971 on Dec 13, 2010 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
e-mail me at bengalsnextstep@yahoo.com
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
Who can organize
Who can we send the donations to, who can write out the adds? Who has the public speaking ability to stand infront of the media as 30000 fans are gathered at fountain square, and get the point across that we demand change.
This is where we have to be careful
A failed half way attempt is the worst thing we can do. Now is the time to generate some interest and see what the real temperature is. I have asked, elsewhere in this post for 50 posters here to decide just how serious we are. I have some ideas but no real plan, but if we can’t get 50 posters on this site to get on board it is a waste of time. Individual letters and e-mails are a positive thing but will not have impact. We know that – we have tried it before.
Generating a bunch of negative low brow smack insulting MB won’t do it either. That kind of response is easily laughed at and dismissed. MDR is missing the boat here IMO.
First, show me you are interested, and I will show you how I would get to the next step. Once we are organized, we will take stock of just what talent we have in the group and take the next step. First show me that you are interested and I will do what I can to organize the process to determine who is capable and interested in leading the group in a professional manner. But, that is the next step. Get 50 of us together and we can set up our own web site, for members only, where people of a common goal can build a movement from the bottom up. We can then go to all of the Bengals web sites and recruit.
Let me make one thing very clear. I am not lobbying to be the leader here. I am only interested in helping get it started. Where money is involved, accountability is important. Everyone needs to be confident that any funds, and if this grows like it is possible to do, the total of the funds we can raise – and will need – can reach big numbers. But lets not get ahead of ourselves. This needs to be a patiently built serious effort or – well – it just is worth it. Get the list to 50 and then we will see. If we can’t get 50, there just isn’t enough interest.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
i'm in and will help in any capacity I can
i was just spittballing quick ideas to get the media in our corner, or turn the light in our direction….
The Bengals are one of the things I hold most dear to my heart, and i’m absolutely sick of being the laughing stock of the league/country.
Another thing we haven’t touched on is youtube videos, a well coordinated submission of fans videos seperately, then spliced together would be a very easy/efficient way to get the word out into the social media networks
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
Youtube is a great idea but first
Lets get the 50 posters first, b/c when you start something like youtube you’ll get people that will start insulting and doing things in a disrespectful manner. We want people that will be civil in doing this. We have to make sure that we do this right. The first 50 will lay down how we will actually need to do this. In a civil and respectful way. But a good idea..
not to get Political, but how about John Boehner?
He’s from Cincy, went to Moeller, and is no doubt a fan of the Bengals and Reds…..oh and he’s the most influential Republican in America
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
by TruWhoDey on Dec 13, 2010 5:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
e-mail me at bengalsnextstep@yahoo.com
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
I'm going to do this...
Letters to DeMaurice and James…coming up!
by TheWalrus1971 on Dec 13, 2010 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
National Football League
Attn: Roger Goodell, Commissioner
280 Park Avenue
New York, NY 10017
by JCompton41 on Dec 13, 2010 5:50 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
How about A new website?
Like WDR but geared to this purpous. Im positive someone on this site is Computer literate enough to create a legit website. But the problem is will be finding someone to handle funds and speak out. Im sure people will be more than happy to donate, but im also sure they want to be sure the money donated will be used to benifit the cause. A person to speak who like Jungle John said, a 3 peice suit type of person, who people will take serious is a must. I think a website will be able to just show the fans that we are serious and get this to actually take action.
A website is a great idea.
Organization, as JJ and others have stated, will be key to getting this movement off the ground, and in my opinion we should start getting organized now, in its infancy.
I can understand the desire to get a legitimate following (i.e. 50 pledges from the board) before taking significant action, but why not host a simple page on some sort of free web hosting site, and move the discussion there? There we could track membership and start having some meaningful, organized dialogue outside the confines of this cumbersome thread.
I don’t have the knowledge or resources to start a site, but does anyone else?
e-mail me at bengalsnextstep Jaegner and I will explain my plan We can do this
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
Like I have said before this is where we need to be careful........
This fan base is fed up and eager to get things moving. I understand that. Several well meaning and enthusiastic posters are obviously ready to move to the next step, IMO, just a bit too quick. Maybe it would be a good idea for me to lay out what I consider to be the logical next step. It may entice others who may be hesitant to become involved if they know that the plan is moving in the direction it needs to go. It might also help those who are interested find a way to do it.
Lets start with a few guiding principles ( I am sure more will follow):
1. This is to be a respectful and professional approach. No MB is a jerk or an a**hole type of dialogue is acceptable to any movement that I am willing to be a part of. This needs to be a professional movement. No angry mobs. No smack.
2. Understand that if it is to work everyone needs to “have some skin in the game.” Any plan of action will require funding. Nobody needs to put in a lot $1, $5, $10 and maybe in some cases $20 at the most. I will be the first to send $20. The more people we get involved the less per person will be needed.
The potential finances could, if things work out like we hope, could be great. EX: 10,0000 participants @ say $10.00 per is $100,000. That kind of cash should only be collected if and when we have an acceptable and accountable party handle it. The impact needs to be one that is large enough prime the pump of the national media. It needs to be national news. I am not sure how much it will cost but I will address that later in this post.
4. Personal presence is important. If we call for a rally, say at fountain square, if only 50-60 people show up it will have no impact. Everyone involved needs to get others involved. We need a 10,000 count rally to make news. Therefore, we need to make sure that in that rally, we are respectful. No vulgar signs. No violence or unruliness. That will paint us as undeserving of serious consideration.
5. We need to verify the legality of everything we do. We need to get the appropriate permits for our rallies. We need to obey the law! We also need to understand just what rights we, as fans have. All printed or posted material that this movement generates, as well as any e-mails or letters that represent us needs to be legal. MB is a lawyer and he has lawyers. We cannot allow him a legal avenue to stop us. Let him try – let him fail. That will just generate more publicity and that is the only thing that will move him.
6. The mission of all of this is to persuade MB to put a winning or at least a consistently competitive team on the field. That is our right to demand, but as with all rights, it also carries with it responsibilities. Among those are the ones listed above.
Okay, how do we do it? Well here is my idea for the next step.
First of all we need some specialized talent. Hopefully we can find it among our ranks but what we don’t have we will need to pay for. This is what we will need:
1. We need a leader. Someone who can oversee the entire operation. Someone who has the presence and personality to put a professional face on the movement. Someone who can create a consensus among the members to promote a unified direction and can express that direction in a professional manner.
2. We need an accountant. Preferably a CPA who is bound by ethical guidelines and can handle and be accountable for the funds as they come in.
3. We need a lawyer. Someone who can keep us within legal boundaries.
4. We need a “web guy”. Someone who can establish a website and manage it utilizing his own skills and those of a team he puts together from among our members. It will be his job to establish an initial site for all of us to go to. An internet meeting and discussion room, if you will.
It will be a place everyone can visit, with protected forums where only members can participate. It is there that all of the decisions will be made. Where we will vote for a leader and plan the details of exactly how we will operate. We can also determine the refinement of the website.
5. We will need skilled writers who can submit and, subject to some sort of approval process establish the content where the public, non member, visitors can see what we are all about. That is where we can generate the membership and funds we will need.
Once we have a website and some sort of concrete organization that functions we can go to all other Bengals websites and negotiate to exchange links. Possibly we could generate enough traffic that we can sell advertising or even get some corporate sponsorship to help us meet our goals.
One thing we need to be considerate of. This site has its own responsibilities. Josh, for example could very easily be put in a position that may have ramifications detriment to this site. I, we, do not want that. If he would consider allowing us access thru a separate forum, I for one would be open to that, but this site and its leaders need to be shown the respect due them and allow them to participate as much or as little as they would like. We must recognize that they have already done us a service by providing this forum. I, for one appreciate it. Thank you for tolerating us.
Guys & Gals, this could fizzle quickly. Nothing may come of it. But, if we join together and put all of out individual commitments behind one effort we CAN do this. But we can only do it if we, beginning from a single fanpost, work bit by bit, member by member, dollar by dollar in a relentless forward thinking manner.
I will assume that there is interest. I will set up an e-mail account with yahoo to accept correspondence from you. I will for our purposes establish it as a our home where we can communicate and move forward to getting an initial website established. I will post it within the next 24 hrs. Anyone who is interested – well – follow me by e-mail. The sooner we get our own site the sooner we can elect a leader and get things moving. We have suffered a long time, we need to be patient and work toward something effective. There is no need to be in a hurry. Remember – slow and steady does it every time.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
by JUNGLEJOHN on Dec 14, 2010 1:26 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
The website is
I would suggest that each of you create a new account for this correspondence only. This will protect your identity until you are prepared to release it. Yahoo has a pretty good chat line as well.
Now lets see who is really serious. If you are not on board with the guidelines, understand that these or ones similar in nature will be in the conditions you will be asked to agree to in order to become a member of any possible web site we build. I welcome the comments of anyone who is willing to participate.
Let me emphasize once again that I am NOT lobbying for a leadership role in the group. I do not want anyone to think that I am doing this with a self engrandizing motive. Once a membership role is established I will be quite willing to step aside and let the members selection take over. I am simple stepping forward to be a focal point where those who are interested can meet. All of you can take it from there. It will be your organization – not mine. I would be happy to simply be one of the regular members.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
i'll set mine up tonight
and additionally i work for a technology company (CDW) many of you may see our ads on sportscenter or watching golf (official tech sponsor of the PGA tour). Any tech equipment needed to establish secure servers etc I can sell to the group (at cost of course) if need be. My company also hosts websites, so once we have a selected committee or leadership role defined, we would need to establish and account with CDW to move forward with any hosting discussions w/my company. We do not have to use CDW or myself for any of that, i just thought i’d contribute where I can.
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
That is good tru. We will need all of the help we can get initially
We have a long way to go and we will get there if we can find a good man (or woman) to lead us. I am doing some investigating right now on other items. Make a new yahoo e-mail (it is free) and e-mail me with any details you can get. We can coordinate from there and wait for others to get involved. One step at a time.I am sure there is a lot of talent out there and if we can direct the effort this can work. I promise.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
Go to the e-mail so we can communicate more easily. bengalsnextstep@yahoo.com
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
TruWhodey@yahoo.com
done and set up….not on my BB yet so email me first
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
Count me in
What ever needs done, Im there.
by James Schmid the great on Dec 14, 2010 11:38 PM EST reply actions
Send in that e-mail James.
We will move forward when the count nears 50. We already have quite a few.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
e-mail me at bengalsnextstep@yahoo.com and get counted
I will explain my idea.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
WDR isnt an enemy of the cause, people.
Bengals Futility – By The Numbers
*
19 – Years since the Bengals have won a playoff game
0 – Total number of playoff wins in Mike Brown’s tenure as owner
.365 – Bengals regular season winning percentage since Mike Brown took over as owner (109-190-1 in 19 seasons)
29-34-1 – Record since 2005 playoff game vs Steelers
6 – Seasons the Bengals have lost their first six games since 1991. No other team has more than two.
0 – Teams North of Cincinnati without an indoor practice facility
10 – Players arrested in a 14 month span from 2005-2006
32 – Mike Brown’s ranking, out of 32, of the “Best Owners in the NFL” by Michael Silver of Sports Illustrated in 2007
458,000,000 – Amount, in dollars, that Hamilton County Taxpayers paid to build PBS
2032 – Year that Hamilton County will have finally paid off its debt on the stadium deal
3 – Total number of non-clerical employees employed in the Bengals scouting department, lowest in the league
747,000,000 – Amount, in dollars, paid in free agency by the Bengals from 1994 – 2005, second worst of all 28 teams in existence for the duration, behind only Arizona
118 – Ranking, out of 118 professional teams, of the "Worst Franchises" in professional sports, as ranked by ESPN the Magazine in 2003.
97 – Ranking, out of 98 general managers in all four major sports with three or more years of experience, of Mike Brown’s performance as a GM, as ranked by Forbes in 2007
These are FACTS, and need to be pointed out to the fanbase who obviously sees through rose colored glasses. There are some real class writers over there, and best as I can figure have spent real cash to make their statement.
Believe me, there are more than 50 people there who would merge with us here also, and Im not real thrilled with the guys there being called wrong. If following them there makes me militant, then I am militant. Simple as that.
It sickens me to see people so passive about the past 20 years. No NFL team is nearly as inept as this one is, NOT a SINGLE team.
That friends, started and continues at the top. People giggled at this program for many years, and when Marvin showed up, there was hope. Anyone with two brain cells can see Lewis is now a lame duck, and it shows with the performance again this year.
Oh, count me in. I am a firm believer in that a “fish rots from the head down”
C’mon, because my militant friends choose words that you dont here makes them “wrong” in their approach to wanting a change?
Oh, I HAVE TIME to lick a stamp, and it seems I have hundreds of dollars of newly found cash each year that I faithfully dropped for those cool football jerseys, hats, lighters, etc.
My wife has bought me an official sideline hat every year for our anniversary, I have 10 now, I am sure she wouldnt mind spending that cash on more urinal cakes, and she is no where near as militant as I am.
WDR has facts galore, and a couple ideas are truly genius. You might want to take another look at what the real fans over there are saying, discounting the usual nonsense ramblings of a few.
Fans are FANS, people come from all backgrounds and still love the game equally. We have some people here and over at WDR who ramble on and on about useless crap, and dont know any more about the facts than my 4 yr old grandson.
But that kid is 90% effective in predicting the bengal offensive playcalling. Another gripe I have, but I will ease into it slowly.
But for now just the facts. John, count me in.
jsilveir, I have been in a lot of fights in my life.............
fist fights on the playground, in bars, in lots of place. I have fought the enemy in the field while in combat on an individual basis and as part of a team. I have won my share and lost as few. Make no mistake this cause is a fight.
Thru all of this I have many times seen individual people and military units respond in anger, wading into the fray eyes glaring and fists swinging; running into the enemy guns firing and grenades flying only to find a cool headed smaller guys or lesser manned units defeat them.
I have already expounded about my resentment of the symbolism on WDR and I will not repeat that here, but put that aside for a moment. The WDR effort have worked hard for years in an organized effort only the find absolutely zero effect. The whole point of their effort, as well as the one we are trying to start up, is to get MB to abandon the failed policies of the past. I am calling on WDR to do the same. They need to change if they are going to recruit the numbers it will take to succeed. How can they call for MB to change if they are not willing to examine the reason they have failed and change themselves? It may be that many join in WDR’s effort because they are the only alternative. We are offering them another choice.
I would love to have the support of people from WDR. But, only if they can embrace the manner and principles which we are going to use to do it. No smack, no vulgarity, no angry vitriol. This is being built on the principle of respect, professionalism and an image that can appeal to all Bengals fans and not, thru the use of poorly chosen imagery, alienate those we need to be successful. E-mail me at bengalsnextstep@yahoo.com and I will be happy to explain my reasoning and the fundamentals of what I think will work. Invite others at WDR to come over as well. At least take a look. What can it hurt. If they like the approach they can join up – if not – hell keep doing what they are doing. We have a common goal – just very different ideas regarding how to go about it.
BTW – we all know the facts. That is why we are doing this.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
very well explained JJ
Jsilveir,
no need to explain the facts any longer. We know them. WDR has been in existence for how many years? A lot of people will not bother even visiting your site. I hadn’t even visited it, not until JJ explained some facts that I heard (before JJ) was the actual reasons why I hadn’t even bothered going there. I venture to say that is probably the same reasons a lot of people don’t. Although when I did visit the site, you guys do want the same as all of us, but the Mike Brown bashing will get you guys nowhere. There is a lot of it, even on this site. So lets all be civil and meet half way. Being civil and professional is the right way to get your point across, with more effectiveness.
So again, email JJ at bengalsnextstep@yahoo.com. We would love fans with bright minds.
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