Do the Bengals need to spend a high pick on an O-Lineman?
by Paul Cannon on Feb 28, 2010 1:27 PM EST
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PrintThey are the men who get no credit when things go right, and take all the blame when the go wrong. They are engine that keeps the offense going, and the financial contributors that keep the buffet lines in business. They are our Offensive LIne.
How good were they last year? Do we give them enough credit? Do we need to upgrade? These are the questions that I think need to be answered as we enter the draft and the free agent season, maybe even before we start talking WRs and TEs.
First, I think that we all have to agree that the offensive line of the Bengals performed far above expectations last year. Considering that they were put together from scratch (more or less) and that our #1 draft pick didn't get to see the field for the first half of the year, they played pretty damn good. But how good were they and do we need to upgrade at all?
I thought that we should take a closer look at pass protection as a way of figuring out how the line did at protecting Palmer, (we all know they did a good job run blocking).
The line finished with a top 10 rating in QB sacks allowed. 9th overall (29): Given what they went through in 2008, I'll take that any day. But were they an elite offensive line? I think not. Here's why.
For every sack allowed the Bengals averaged 16.44 pass attempts. (Note, this is not necessarily drop backs - I couldn't find this stat online). By comparision, the Colts allowed only one sack per 46.23 pass attempts. Here's a list of the numbers I compiled from the best passing teams in the league (pass attempts per sack). This isn't a comprehensive list, but it gives you a better idea of where we stand.
Indianapolis: 46.23
New England: 32.89
New Orleans: 27.20
Houston: 23.72
Arizona: 22.84
San Diego: 20.0
Cincinnati: 16.44
Minnesota: 16.26
Dallas: 16.17
Green Bay: 10.8
The fact that we finished in the top 10 in sacks allowed doesn't necessarily mean that we were a top 10 pass protecting team. From what I can tell, the Bengals fell in about the middle of the pack for pass protection last year.
So do we need to upgrade with a high draft pick?
On the one hand, most of us expect the line to improve next year in it's sophomore season and with a healthy (knock on wood) Andre Smith.
However, you could also argue that there is a lot of room for improvement. Bobbie is getting older while Mathis and Livings seem decent, but not elite by any means. Whit played solidly last year (despite the false starts) while Roland and Collins seemed to struggle at times against the pass rush. Andre is a bit of an unknown at this point, though I think we still expect big things from him (pun intended).
Should we spend a high draft pick (first or second) on an offensive lineman - Iupati perhaps? Or are you content with what we have?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors.
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I would be okay picking o-line every year until all 5 guys are top round premium talent… Protecting your skill guys is a most…
your analysts of our line
…is pretty right on. The reason the bengals didn’t give up that many sacks is because we didn’t throw much and when we did they were three steps and fire.
I’m of the opinion the bengals should draft an o-lineman every year. Do we need to use a first or second round pick? I don’t think so. The more important indicator of a successful line is continuity.
We saw a lot of guys get a a lot of playing time last year and there is no reason to think our line won’t be better this year without any personnel changes.
To me adding a mid rounder makes sense and put the best five guys we have on the field.
by goffchile on Feb 28, 2010 1:42 PM EST via mobile reply actions
3 step and fire
That’s something that I didn’t mention, but it does at least in my mind, increase the necessity for another talented lineman.
This is our year!
Mid rounder
I don’t see a mid rounder improving the line. I think a mid rounder adds depth. I think the line should be better next year either way, with a year more experience and a healthy A Smith, but to improve talent, they need to draft a lineman high (1st 2 rounds). I also think LG is one of the postions that could be most improved.
I wouldn't spend our first round pick here unless the available lineman is the best available.
If the talent fits the position in the draft, fine, take him. As long as it’s not a reach!
would agree with not needing to reach. My vote would go on getting John Jerry Ole Miss in the fourth. He is a powerful guy who can play both RG and RT. He is a brawler and with some polish could be dominant.
by Sheffieldbengal on Feb 28, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
I would agree that we shouldn’t reach, but I also think that Guard is the position which could be most improved this year in the first round.
While we need an imporvement at WR, we need a down field threat. Everyone on the board wishes we had Desean Jackson but overlooks the fact that every NFL team passed on him once, even the Eagles. (How many people here remember that the Benagls also passed on Trevor Laws who the Eagles took 2 picks before they took Desean Jackson?) The Next year, the Eagles took Jeremy Maclin in the first round because he is taller than Jackson. I think that, for us, Dez Bryant is the only WR worth a 1st Round pick.
I think that Safety and TE could be improved, but I think that Guard can be improved more in the first round. I think that TE could be most improved in Free Agency.
If we can bring back Bobbie Williams
then I think we could get away without drafting a lineman until very late in the draft, 6th or 7th round-ish
You are correct sir!
The Oline is the most important position group in a winning strategy.A great Oline makes everyone else on O better and also protects the D by staying on the field and letting them stay rested. Just because out Oline was better than we expected that doesn’t mean that much. We expected them to totally suck. Go Iutapi is he is there. He will make Carson and Benson better. A 4th or 5th round reject will not cut it unless we are lucky enough to find a diamond in the rough. The Oline is NEVER good enough. Period.
"Coincidence is God's way of staying anonymous"
by JUNGLEJOHN on Mar 5, 2010 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
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Blogger at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Josh Kirkendall on Feb 28, 2010 10:17 PM EST reply actions
I'm confused.
Should we rec things we agree with, or rec things that we want to talk about, or rec funny things or..
The general pattern I’ve seen is to rec things you agree with, when it comes to comments. As for fanposts, you rec them if you think it’s a great discussion topic or otherwise worth making sure it stays on the front page for two weeks.
For those who can't remember the uncapped FA rules, this link's for you.
Absolutely not.
Our line played great and should improve with Andre Smith starting at RT. We could improve at G in the 4th maybe, a-la-a John Jerry or someone like that.
We have other much more important needs to fill with our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks.
If you don't live like you wanna, you live like you shouldn't
The Oline only played great in relation to what we expected. We expected them to suck.
They didn’t but they are a long way from being great. A long way. A long long way. Get Utapi!
"Coincidence is God's way of staying anonymous"
I'm tired of seeing the Bengals try to develop mid-to-late round talent on O-line...
Doesn’t have to be a high 1st-rounder (like Andre “Stands With A Cast” Smith) every year, but I’d settle for a solid line of 2nd/3rd rounders. Trot’s right, though…right now we have much more important fish to fry.
you mean
seeing them successfully develop mid to late round talent?
paul alexander might be one of the best position coaches in the league. if the WR coach was half as talented simpson would have played the first season.
RIP Slim.
As always, best player available...
Marvin was right on the mark a few days ago that if you reach down to meet a perceived current need, you usually end up with a player that hasn’t quite lived up to his draft expectation a few years later. Moreover, you can find out with free agency that what you thought you needed in February isn’t your most pressing need in September.
That said, I’ll inject a whiff of hypocrisy by commenting that I’ll be disappointed if the best player available at #21 is an O-lineman. I can’t help thinking we’d have a monster defence front to back in 2010 if a ball-hawking safety is available when our turn comes up.
I agree with that philosophy
But when you get down to it, that’s a really subjective way to go. What if a guy like Bradford (miraculously) fell to us and seemed to be the best available player on the board? Do you draft him as a backup QB? That’s what happened with Aaron Rogers, and it’s turned out ok for Green Bay. Anywho, that’s off topic. See below to get back on the O-Lineman question.
This is our year!
by Paul Cannon on Feb 28, 2010 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
At 21 there should be a couple of choices that are probably bunched together on Cincy’s big board My guess is there will be some deviation to fill a position considered to be a need assuming their top remaining players are bunched together. It also remains to be seen what FA brings. Either way, if it’s a WR, DE, S, or OG, I dont think I will be too disappointed. TE would be the only first round ‘need’ pick I would consider to be a poor choice based solely on a there being no elite blocking/pass catching TE prospects like Pettigrew last year.
by Cedric Benson Boat Party on Mar 1, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
What if Lupati is on the board?
Assuming that we all think that Lupati is worthy of a first round selection, is he worth taking at that spot? (This is also assuming that we feel that he is as talented – if not better – than other available players)
This is our year!
assuming all that, then absolutely
If the team believes he’s as or more talented than whoever’s left, that implies they see him as a several-year starter at guard. You can always justify taking a guy like that, even if you seem set at the position, which we hardly are (34 year old RG, LG the least solid spot on the line). I’d just like to see E. Thomas still there to make the question moot.
I believe this is THE year to get a 1st round O guard and here's why.
1) Guard is a weakspot on the line right now. Not only do we have one “decent” guard and one aging guard with Bobbie, we don’t have one that is quick enough to pull and big enough to move bodies consistantly.
2) The Bobbie Williams Factor. I think Bobbie has one good year left in the tank. The conservative side tells me he might only have 3/4 of a season left before something happens to him. I want to have his replacement LEARN from this guy. Not only in regard to the plays, but his heart. One of his best factors is experience and leadership. You want a rookie to be exposed to that.
Time
This is a good question and is tough to answer because our offense was sooo abysmal last year. Was the O line making the receivers look bad last year by not giving Carson enough time to throw, or are our receivers just not talented enough to get open on their own? I tend to think that it was a lil of both, but with Andre coming in and improving the O Line, I believe that our #1 should go to a WR if we can snag Bryant or Thomas. Everyone else is second round talent.
The Case for Mardy Gilyard
The kid was a PHENOM @ UC!
Smart and has character. Long and short threat!
He caught everything coming at him and changed games with his return abilities.
The kid WANTS to play in his adopted hometown!
Every Offensive or Defensive lineman will be taken, why not take this kid in the first round? Our offensive lines just needs to be healthy to jell.
Oklahoma’s Gresham is coming off injury and other than that kid out off Idaho (the O-tackle) who may be left and frankly he wont be.
I say get Gilyard and plan for the future
Minister of Great Legs
Just dug this up...
According to Washingtonpost.com these are the number of sacks allowed last year by our O line. The right side (Roland, Collins, and Smith) were credited for giving up 9.5 sacs while Whit gave up 7. Not sure where the rest of the numbers are accredited to, but thought this might be helpful
Andrew Whit 7
Dennis Roland 6
Anthony Collins 3
Andre Smith .5
Kyle Cook 1
Bobbie Williams 2.5
Mathis 0
Nate Livings 0
Roland
That seem like a big number for a guy who didn’t start the entire year like Whit did. I’m also surprised by Whit’s 7 sacks allowed. How does that compare to other Left Tackles in the league?
This is our year!
Joe Thomas of Cleveland: 6 sacks allowed – he’s an all pro
Ryan Clady of Denver – 8 sacks allowed – all pro
Jake Long of Miami – 5 sacks allowed – all pro
John Stichcomb – New Orleans 3 sacks allowed – started all 16 games
Stinchcomb is the RT, not the LT. You wanted Jermon Bushrod’s stats instead. He only started 14 games and gave up 4.5 according to Between The Lines.
Considering he is a third-year 4th-round player who was unexpectedly thrust into the starting role when Jammal Brown went out for season-ending surgery in the preseason, that’s not too bad.
Of course, the Saints were scheming all season long to give him extra help. Because his didn’t get those numbers solely on his own. Drew Brees has a very quick release too, and that helps as well.
For those who can't remember the uncapped FA rules, this link's for you.
Yes please,O-LINEMAN FIRST.
The Bengals really NEED to draft a O-Lineman in the first round to improve the quality of competition within the offensiveses line,and in my opinion a rookie tightend we do not need we have one or two,But we need a instant contributor on the field at that position,I would go in free agency and sign one,maybe Ben Watson a championship quality TE.The Bengals have a whole lot of talent on that team on both sides of the ball they need a Veteran that can still play at a high level,that is good quality human being.A mentor type, I know about Reggie Kelly,I just think he would be a great coach for the tightends. With Hill, Coffman, and Foshi the Bengals have enough young talent. So I would definitely plug the offensive line to ensure stability on the line. In the second round I would probably go wide out since the signing of Matt Jones. From the third round on: defense. Then the Bengals will go deeper in the playoffs, maybe even a Superbowl run.
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