Perhaps some things are better off until the draft: Don't expect safety help in free agency
by Josh Kirkendall on Mar 6, 2010 6:00 PM EST
in Analysis
28 comments
When defending against the run, the Bengals have a good core of defensive safeties that do not mind violent providing a violent heimlich maneuver on running backs. Guys like Chinedum Ndukwe and Chris Crocker comes to mind and Roy Williams, when he did play, made an impact around the line of scrimmage more times than not. Aside from the fact that Tom Nelson made us gag at times towards the end of the season, if the opposing team ran the football, our safeties would have none of it -- at least they played very, very, hard.
But when teams threw the football? Oh boy. It was scary. Bengals secondary coach Kevin Coyle said:
“You’ve got to be able to cover. If you can’t cover, you have a hard time. You have trouble unless you really tweak what you’re doing. The more versatile they are, the better it is.”
“Discipline in his coverage,” says Coyle when asked what Ndukwe has to improve. “Discipline in improving his footwork. Doing all the little things the right way all the time. He plays with great effort. He’s a tough guy. He flies around. He’s been productive. He’s had real moments where he’s made a lot of productive plays. You saw how effective we were not giving up big plays in the running game with (Ndukwe) in there.”
The problem is that the Bengals developed a squad of tough safeties that are really good at stopping the run. Against the pass, they're average at best, a liability at the nicest, and scarier than Kathy Bates in a hot tub at worst. The versatility that Geoff Hobson spoke of after the NFL Combine was regarding a safety that can support against the run with good coverage skills. Having guys like Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu in the division tends to make you envious.
If the Bengals elect to address the defense with their first round selection, it's a good bet that they look at safety first. Even if the Bengals get Roy Williams signed, as they're more than likely to do, the position will still need help. But if you look at the players available in free agency, unless they sign Darren Sharper, don't expect much more than what they have.
A list of available free agent safeties.
Mocking the draft ranking - free safeties.
Mocking the draft ranking - strong safeties.
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I don't pay attention to the combine.
I haven’t done much research about this year’s crop of college players. I just know it’s deep on defense, the TE prospects are mostly questionable, and WR talent is generally poor.
It isn't that the WR talent is poor...
its just that nearly every college team uses a spread system therefore prolonging the time a WR needs to be NFL ready (and WR was already seen to be a hard position to adapt to). Golden Tate who is seen as a 1st rounder was from a pro-style system but even his route running is laughable. He can cut alright but he rounds every route off and his normal job was to run 5-7 yards turn around, catch ball… make slow college DBs look silly. Doesn’t work in the NFL for the most part (unless you are Wes Welker and have Randy Moss keeping the SS/FS away from you).
by Sheffieldbengal on Mar 6, 2010 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
yo kirk...
those Mocking the Draft Rankings are all screwed up….
they got Earl Thomas as a SS
they got Chad Jones as a FS (he could play it but everybody has him as a SS)
Eric Berry as a SS
Morgan burnett as a SS
that can confuse the shit out of someone that doesn’t follow the draft that much
If we sign Owens, Pitts, Williams and a TE, even Reggie Kelly, that leaves us available to take a first round safety and another safety in the draft. We could still take a high round TE and WR.
Signing our own and other FAs
should be used to cover our glaring needs. If we can do that then the draft is free for BPA.
by Sheffieldbengal on Mar 6, 2010 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
I think if we sign all those guys
We need to sign a DT if you don’t want to draft one in the first round. Btu signing those guys definitely gives the Bengals the flexibility to draft best talent and not be suckered into picking for need in the first.
Bengals have been sighted
sniffing around CB Chris Cook (Virginia 6-2 210 4.45) with the intention to have him play a hybrid FS/CB. One thing his size would help with is against teams like the Chargers who abused our DBs because of superior size (and safety range).
you think it will happen?
CB85......Collaros for Heisman
by TennBengalfan on Mar 6, 2010 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
I mean, Chad wants it.
Carson apparently wants it. Let’s see what kinda money he demands.
I hope it’s not much. I’d love to see us get TO for 2 years for 8M guaranteed or something, and then grab Coles for 4M/2yr, and somehow also sign Antonio Bryant.
Ocho, Owens, Bryant, Coles, Caldwell, Simpson, Cosby
That will never happen.
We might get one of those guys. Thats it. Maybe Owens. And why do you want Coles back or think we would want to sign him back after we just got rid of him?
Can you just imagine the media circus
You think he gets the key to Cincy
CB85......Collaros for Heisman
by TennBengalfan on Mar 6, 2010 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, the Bengals definitely need to upgrade the safety position with young, athletic playmakers. However, the cupboard is not bare with respect to safeties with coverage ability. Tom Nelson comes to mind. And with a full year of experience, he should get better. Crocker,when healthy, is also pretty good in coverage. Ndukwe and Roy L….maybe not. Anyway,the distressing thing about the Bengals’ safety play, to me, was the inability to stop the run and RAC after screen passes in the last month of the season. Tom Nelson was not formidable against the run. Of course, Roy L. was hurt and Crocker was hobbled. Ndukwe can do better. Sure, an upgrade is needed. But I wouldn’t consider taking a safety in rd 1 unless Earl Thomas slid to #21. I would love to see the Bengals draft a pure safety, e.g., Morgan Burnett,Nate Allen,Major Wright,Darrell Stuckey or Reshad Jones, a hybrid CB/S,e.g. Chris Cook,Myron Lewis,Brian Jackson or Akwasi Uwusu-Ansah, and a pure CB in the latter rounds,such as Chris Hawkins,Walter Thurmond, or AJ Jefferson. Maybe that’s asking for too much. As for the current crop of FAs go, the safety I like best is Sean Jones who,admittedly, is more of an in-the-box safety than a free. But how about potential nickel corners such as Lito Sheppard,Phillip Buchanon, Fred Smoot, or last off-season’s favorite,Rod Hood?
dont know what to say
CB85......Collaros for Heisman
by TennBengalfan on Mar 6, 2010 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
draft Thomas
if he lasts until #21. His skill set most closely matches our needs. Let somebody else have Mays. Berry will be long gone unless we trade way up, which won’t and probably shouldn’t happen.
Earl Mays and Berry are all very good
He’s always open. He catches a lot of balls. He’s un-guardable, no matter how old he is
Ha HA HA.......
Kathy Bates in a hot tub. Funny stuff.
"Shiny. Let's be bad guys."
by KentuckianaBrowncoat on Mar 7, 2010 9:33 AM EST reply actions
Sharper COULD actually work out quite well here. I know, I saw every one of his games last year on either TV or Game Rewind (and some multiple times). He’s smart, confident, and good as making plays.
In order for him to work out, he needs talented corners playing a man scheme in front of him so he can play robber in the back, reading the QB and guessing off his instincts. When he had Greer and Porter in the game he was deadly, when he had to switch back to a cover-2 scheme to protect the weaker backups and even street pickups around weeks 10-15 he just flat sucked. Well we have good corners who could play in front of him, so as long as they stay healthy he’s a safe option.
He needs at least SOME pass rush in front of him. The Saints didn’t have much of one last year, but they blitzed and overloaded and stunted and did other tricks to generate that bit of extra pressure he needs to be effective. Well we have at least some pass rush, especially if Odom comes back healthy, but we do need Zim to come up with some schemes to get that extra bit of pressure. I’m pretty sure he can do it, though.
He’s great at teaching the kids/rookies/etc. This can also be very useful if we have somebody we hope can take over for him a year or two down the road.
He could be Reed. He’s great at that role. But he’s not Polamalu. In run support he’s nearly nonexistent.
And there are three key reasons why he’s not the absolute best option:
1) He’s old. He can still play but he HAS lost a step. Or two or three.
2) He’s not going to be as enthused to play for Zimmer as he was Gregg Williams. I think Zim would grow on him, but Williams was love at first sight. (Oh and compare Katie Blackburn and Rita Benson-LeBlanc if you feel like it sometime and tell me which owner has the smarter granddaughter.)
3) If we have corner injuries forcing him out of his freelancing role, he’s going to suck. He doesn’t tackle very well anymore and he will get burnt on big pass plays just as bad as our current safeties or worse IF he lacks the proper support upfront.
Ideally I’d still say we should grab him, if Katie’s voice doesn’t scare him away, simply because of the play-making ability and the chance for him to train his replacement. The Saints would love to have him back but both sides know they aren’t desperate, he’s provided a good bit of training to his eventual replacement(s) already (Usama Young and/or Jenkins). He could provide more for them and Chip Vaughn as well, but if he goes it won’t be the end of the world.
But if we do grab him, we need somebody in line for him to treat as his apprentice. If Nelson or Chinny can be that guy, great. But if not, I’d recommend we look at available pure cover-2 corners out there to see if we could find one that would be interested in converting to FS and coming to learn from him. And/or draft a good prospect for him to tutor.
I’d also recommend we really do take a good hard look at Chad Jones. I think he could probably play either FS or SS and that fits well with Zimmer’s versatile “ideal safety” model. And also moreso with trying to get our own version of Polamalu.
For those who can't remember the uncapped FA rules, this link's for you.
if you’re going to post this long, you might as well do a fanpost. Just sayin.
This is our year!
by Carsonorbust on Mar 8, 2010 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
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