Marvez: Bengals Still Need to Address Safety
by Jason Garrison on Apr 26, 2010 7:30 PM EDT
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PrintFOXSports.com writer Alex Marvez thinks the Bengals biggest need post draft is a safety. That makes one person, plus the other three million people who say the same thing.
Right now there are six safeties on the Bengals roster but only Roy Williams, Chris Crocker and Chinedum Ndukwe saw significant playing time last year. When the safety position was thinned out by injuries, Tom Nelson stepped in and played decent but after he was hurt, it showed every Bengals fan (and their brothers) why the Bengals would have to address the position in the offseason.
Geoff Hobson confirmed that the Bengals are likely in the market for a new safety.
"They're probably in the market for a fourth safety. Tom Nelson was a different player after he got hurt."
That is exactly what the Bengals didn't do in the draft (dont' worry.. I'm not complaining, I loved every pick). They did pick up Jeromy Miles though, a college free agent safety out of UMass, after the draft to help add a little depth to the secondary and he put up some pretty impressive numbers in college.
The Bengals had the sixth best pass defense in the league last year, allowing only an average of 203.1 yards through the air per game. The top ten finish in the pass defense is largely thanks to the safeties, however that's not all that they're responsible for. The safeties are also partly to thank for the Bengals' seventh best rush defense (98.3 yards per game), playing like forth and fifth linebackers when a running back squeezes past the defensive line. So if the Bengals have a top ten ranking in both pass and run defense, then why the need for another safety, especially when Williams and Crocker are both healthy?
Depth. Plain and simple. After Williams, Crocker and Ndukwe, the level of competency at the safety position drops enough to make opposing quarterbacks salivate. Williams and Crocker themselves have even been criticized for being poor coverage safeties, lacking the vertical speed to cover deep threats.
Only time will tell if we truly needed to grab a safety this year in the draft or in free agency. If Williams and Crocker can stay healthy and they play like they should, then the one Bengals fan out there who is screaming at his computer right now, "THEY DON'T NEED A SAFETY" will be able to tell Alex Marvez (and three million more people) that he knows more about the finer points of defense than anybody else. But, if they do get hurt or they just don't play well, it will be a different story.
Will Chris Crocker and Roy Williams need help when it comes to pass defense? Will Jeromy Miles or Brandon Ghee fill in at safety in obvious passing situations? Will the Bengals sack the quarterback every time they drop back to pass rendering the entire Bengals secondary useless? We'll just have to wait and see.
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I don’t know. If the Saints haven’t signed him back, something has to be up. That’s my thinking.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Josh Kirkendall on Apr 26, 2010 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure he wants too much money.
Saw an interview with Sean Peyton during the draft where that’s what he alluded to. And while on the surface that would seem to rule him out, what if the Dunlap drafting lets us unload Robert Geathers and his massive contract? Could give Mikey just enough to sign Sharper to a decent 2-year front-loaded deal until we can draft a stud in the first round next year.
Yes/no/sorta.
One, he’s still recovering from surgery. He was playing hurt most of the second half of the year last year, and had to have surgery after the SB.
Two, he’s getting close to retirement. That means he really wants the absolute max contract he can find. Right now the Saints have a “reasonable” offer (at least that’s what most people — even in the media — seem to call it) on the table, but he’s hoping for more. Understandable, but may rule Mikey out of the bidding war.
Three, they just drafted another CB, so now they are even less desperate to bring him back, since both Young and Jenkins can play the spot if need be, and there is also Chip Vaughn who is at least a theoretical possibility to play FS as well (but more likely he’s the backup SS instead).
Could use depth at Safety
Its very interesting they didn’t take a Safety in round 5 when Reshad Jones was available. I believe they have a plan for the position. Whether some of the Practice squad players are farther along then expected or they plan on signing a veteran(Sharper,etc…), making a trade (Whitner,etc…), or moving a CB, I do not believe the Safety position is set. I do not think Tom Nelson will be on the Roster (barring massive improvement from him) come final roster. Maybe I am wishful thinking, I just do not think a GREAT D-coordinator like Zim is going to make sure he has depth at every position and ignore the one that suffered the most injuries and lacked the most depth last year. Time will tell, lets hope I’m right and they do have a plan.
Let's remember that the secondary wasn't the culprit last year.
The pass defense ranked 6th in the league and could have been something like 4th if it weren’t for all the garbage time yards accumulated by Green Bay, or the ridiculous YAC in the Texans game. Obviously, you have to include those yards. But more often than not, the Bengals secondary wasn’t the issue, especially when the pass rush was healthy. Would improvement at safety help? Probably. But I don’t think it’s quite as glaring a need as we think unless our top 4 guys get hurt again.
you can't ignore though
the fact that BOTH starters haven’t played a full season since 2006… thats 4 seasons and both starters who are getting older which makes injury even more of a possibility…. and with the 4th toughest schedule you can’t possibly be happy with Nelson, Duke or Herbert starting even one game… GOD help us if one (or all) of those games are Baltimore, NO or the Colts.
Safety wasn’t fully to blame… when you have a mediocre pass rush there in trouble
BUT…
Plenty of coverage breakdowns… and that was all them
It's not like Crocker and Williams are much better in coverage
You don’t lose much from those 2 to Nelson/Ndukwe when it comes to pass defense. If there’s a need at safety, it’s for a new starter. We’ve raved the past couple years about Crocker’s resurgence at FS, but if he can’t cover, what are we so happy about? It’s not a DEPTH issue, then, as much as it’s generally “the Bengals need better starting safeties.”
If that’s the case, then there’s a much bigger problem.
Theres No Doubt that..
it gets worse if Crock or Roy isn’t in there… Duke is worse in pass coverage and he keeps making the same mistakes he made as a rookie
and nelson is what a College Free Agent from illnois state is…. super inexpierenced and not as talented
Its a Depth issue because you have both starters that get injured constantly… so Depth better be there
and its a need better Starting “safety” because our FS is best at SS.
its both
It's an overall talent issue.
It’s not just a depth issue. Crocker and Williams are not good coverage safeties. They’re thumpers. Crocker is a bit better than Williams, but he’s a free and Roy’s a strong. That’s to be expected.
The overriding goal should be to develop new starters. I think, as far as replacements go, you can’t have guys that won’t be a fall-off. It’s impossible. if you lose a starter, you lose something on the defense. Instead of focusing on losing less, we should be focusing on gaining something, i.e. a new starter. Talking about depth to me reeks of stop gap solutions and may not even be helpful this year.
I’m not disagreeing that the safety position needs a look… but finding “better subs” is going to be a marginal improvement at best when it comes to wins over the course of the season.
No Ones looking for better subs
Why do you think everyone wanted Taylor Mays… And why Alex Marvez is writing about us not getting a safety… And Earl Thomas dropping to us rumors
Everyone (including me) wants a starting Free Safety….
but you better have “better subs” cause the NFL is a punishing thing and injuries happen…
same logic why you put alot into a QB behind a Pro Bowl QB… Same logic why you bring in more WRs, better depth equals better competition which breeds winning
Mays is no better than what they've got now.
He’s probably much worse in coverage simply because he’ll be a rookie. He blew assignments, and almost definitely will in the NFL. Earl Thomas can cover but, IMO and several others, he’s undersized to play run defense in this league.
I’m not saying that good backups are a bad thing, but they’re a luxury. That’s the only “need” on the team now and there’s probably not much available to address it. My thinking is that they’ll develop CFA Miles and Ghee into potential SS/FS on passing downs. Perhaps it’ll be Ghee and Crocker on passing downs.
I just don’t think it’s worth clamoring THAT MUCH over. The safeties we wanted would have been reaches except in round 5. Paul Alexander must know something we don’t regarding that pick. I also think it’s worth waiting before we bicker too much about it, because w have no idea what Marvin and Zim’s plans are for the position as yet.
5th Round Puzzle
I wonder if one reason the Bengals have gone for a disproportionate number of offensive linemen this year (to the apparent need) is that they want Paul Alexander to groom them into tradable prospects? He’s done wonders with lower profile talent, so maybe he can help us fill in some holes that way, with trades or draft picks. This may help shore up the safety or backup QB situations.
We need more O-linemen.
That’s why. I mean the adage is pretty much true: You can never have too many good linemen on either side of the ball. And the fact of the matter is, despite how happy we were with the line last year, it’s not very deep. Left guard is basically platooned by backups. As much as I like Mathis, he’s an average-to-good NFL lineman. And behind Bobbie there’s basically nothing. Add to that a HUGE dropoff from Andre or Hit down to Anthony Collins or Skoostra and a completely untested Jonathan Luigs behind a still relatively green Kyle Cook and it’s not hard to see why Paul Alexander would always be clammering for more talent.
Don’t take any of this the wrong way. I loved the way our line played (mostly) last season. And the addition of a full-time Andre Smith and Jermaine Gresham is going to be a big boost. Just saying I understand why we were looking for some more guys.
+1
I believe that Ghee may be groomed to play Safety. Especially as a backup this year. Ghee could potentially be a very good Safety, IMO. Lets not forget Miles. In fact I believe that we have already addressed the depth issue if these players pan out. If you upgrade the starters then in a lot of ways you are upgrading the depth also. I guess we won’t know for a while but I seriously hope they give a look to Ghee at Safety. Again lets not forget about Miles. Miles can definitely play. I’m surprised he didn’t get drafted but this year was an extremely deep draft so…. Time will tell but with us not taking a Safety in round 5 I have to believe that Zim and Marvin have a plan. Hoping that plan involves Ghee seeing time as a backup CB and Safety! This could also make us A LOT more flexible and possibly allow us to keep another D Lineman or another position. Essentially if Ghee, or for that matter Trent, can play both CB and Safety you have 2 backup positions with one player!
agreed
I think his hard hitting reputation is just that.. reputation
by quickslant on Apr 26, 2010 9:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
wait
we played the Broncos last year? it’s all seems like a hazy memory…
This is our year!
by Paul Cannon on Apr 27, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, I don't know where all these roster spots are coming from
There are 4 safeties on the roster. Will there be 5? And 5 corners?
We already know there will be strong competition for the receiving spots.
5 running backs? Is this realistic??
CB and Safety???
If they can have Ghee or Trent play CB and Safety this will provide them Flexibility and could add another roster spot at another postion. Ghee did play some Safety in college. Just another reason to look at Ghee or Trent at Safety. Also what better way to get that ballhawking, cover FS that a lot of us have been clamoring for???? I think Zimmer is atleast going to look at this as a possibility.
I've never disagreed that Ghee may get time at FS.
But there are a lot of guys going for just a few roster spots, and not just in the secondary.
Agreed
Just saying that would free up an extra spot, which would be nice, if you have your backup CB playing Safety as well. Definitely a lot of competition simply to make the team. We are going to see a surprise cut or two this year.
Even someone like Mike Brown
Would be helpful, even if he isn’t in on every down.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Moving a corner
I think moving a corner is pretty likely. It’s more in the Bengals’ character than trying to pick up a veteran between now and training camp. (Although they have been doing quite a few un-Bengal-like things the past couple years.) The most likely candidate in my mind is David Jones but Trent Morgan has a chance too. I suppose this kind of versatility is a plus when you stock up on bigger CBs. I see a converted CB as a nice complement to Ndukwe to round out our 3rd and 4th safeties.
Then there is always the chance we find a serviceable backup on the waiver wire after training camp.
Agree to a point
I think the size of both Trent and Ghee make them an interesting look in passing downs. I think first and second down having Crocker and Roy/Ndukwe is a solid pair. I would not however be surprised at all if we go to a Nickle package with 1 safety (probably Crocker cuz hes a little better than the other two coverage wise) and JJoe, Hall, Ghee and Trent. We know Hall and JJoe have inproved thier tackling and Trent showed willingness to mix it up physically last year too. Would I love a true centerfielder yes but I think baring injury up front the coverage wont have to hold as long with the pass rushers we have found.
by Andy Johnson on Apr 26, 2010 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
What better way to have a Ballhawking Cover Safety then to transition a CB like Ghee who played some Safety in college. He runs a 4.4 40 and has the frame at 6’0" to add a few pounds of muscle. I am really really hoping they atleast take a look at this. I believe this would also provide them a lot of Flexibility with the roster.
Corner
I hope and i think as well David Jones,s time is up with the Bengals
by James Schmid the great on Apr 26, 2010 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
I’ve been saying this since draft day when they didn’t take a Safety in round 5. A name you don’t have on there though is Ghee. He played some Safety in college and mentioned this in his interview after the draft. I know it would be hard for a Rookie to learn 2 positions but…. he is only going to be a backup this year. This also allows you the flexibility to carry an extra D Lineman or an extra player at another Roster spot. I’ve been saying this, and hoping they try this since the draft. I don’t think its too far fetched of an idea. I’d like to hear someone ask Marvin or Zimmer this question in an interview to see what they would say about possibly moving Trent or Ghee to Safety. Chris Crocker is listed at 5’11" 200 pounds. Brandon Ghee is listed at 6’0" 192. Morgan Trent is 6’1" 195. No reason in my opinion that either of these to young CB do not have the physical talent to play FS. Actually I believe they would be an upgrade over Crocker, once they had the playbook down!
I like Ghee as a corner
I have yet to see much of Ghee, but based on the scouting reports I think he’s an extremely talented CB with a high ceiling. I think we know what we have in Trent Morgan and David Jones, they are two players who probably won’t be any more than nickel corners in the NFL. We might as well see if they can transition to safety.
I have to admit that I like Crocker as a safety, at least when he’s healthy. My soft spot for him is probably because I have that hit he put on Santonio Holmes two years ago replaying over and over in my head.
Ghee
I like Ghee as a corner too. However I think you can play him at both. Provides flexibility and another roster spot. Morgan Trent may be the better option if your only looking for a backup. If you are looking for a stud starter though you may want to look at Ghee. Decisions Decisions. Love it already. If you are going to sign Joseph that means we still have 2 years before we have to replace either of them so, if you want to get your best players on the field you may have to look at Ghee as a Safety.
Whitner
in my mind would be the obvious choice. From what I read, the Bills didn’t utilize him properly. He’s probably not too happy sitting on the bench. With the Bills in rebuilding mode one would think they would listen to trade offers since they are deep at safety. It doesn’t hurt that he’s an Ohio State grad. I still wonder if they had given any consideration to making a pitch for him on day three of the draft. One would think a 5th round draft pick could secure a back up. I like Roy Williams but you have to wonder if he can make it through the season.
I would like to see John Busing brought back, he would be cheap enough and he proved last year in Houston he could play.
Boy it would be very nice to have Sharper on this team
uuuh yeah I write for the Cincinnati Enquirer. Thanks?
Mr. NC-17
I know you have some sources, have you heard anything at all about possibly moving one of our young CB to Safety? Ghee or Trent? I’d definitely like to hear what you could find out about this.
drop one second from the avg. time it takes our front four to get at the QB and suddenly our talent at safety improves exponentially. Its all won or lost at the line.
by Bengals NFL Champs on Apr 26, 2010 10:07 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
They've been pretty creative
These aren’t your dad’s Bengals anymore. Or if your as old as I am. The throwback Beng’s. The days of just ignoring weakness or addressing it with a bonehead reaction. Seem to have went with the Soviet Union or maybe G.W Bush.
Surly they understand the predicament… If there is one. They seem to hate loose ends anymore. Mikiee Brown is probably feeling his age to.. He’s got a legacy to uphold ya know. Almost seems like Marvin has some pictures of….. Nevermind.
Whatever’s happened it wouldn’t surprise me to come up with an All Pro from somewhere. Maybe a vintage one…or a Canadian one. But I trust they’ll fix it
Maybe they really are transforming someone else… Like Jerome Simpson. (Now that is a wisecrack). They’ll pick up someone and on the bright side. The new toys should translate into a few more points and a little breathing room.
But again for every action there’s….. A team playing catch up and throwing the ball in the river… What are we gonna do??? At least we’re not stuck with T. Mays… he’ll be a LB’r in two years. Maybe Ghee’s the FS.
I do remember when there were more holes in this roster than a 1990 era Bengals roster. Nothing monumental now. We do need a decent RB to . The aforementioned FA list looks like it could use some…… FA help. I was kinda hoping they grabbed Dwyer in the end there. Didn’t happen….. They must have a plan.
Wonder if McGyver’s availible
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