Carson the Great

by Mojokong on Apr 30, 2010 9:07 PM EDT

There was a time when most football fans acknowledged Carson Palmer as an elite quarterback. Not since Peyton Manning had a player seemed so destined for perpetual mega-stardom. He was a big, strong, intelligent guy who put up through-the-roof numbers in 2005 and 2006. Then he threw 20 interceptions in '07, his team went 7-9 and his legacy points were taken away.

The excuse most Bengals fans developed for Palmer's struggles was the anemic play-calling of Bob Bratkowski. The beleaguered offensive coordinator—who only two seasons earlier was hailed by the city as an offensive genius—found himself vilified for the rapid deterioration of the offense, particularly of the running game. It was believed that the predictability of his play-calling made it easy for defenses to shut down the run, and Palmer was forced to make up the difference which he was unable to effectively accomplish.

Things got even worse in 2008, when the team lost its first eight games, including four losses that Palmer participated in before hurting his elbow and missing the rest of the season. Calls for Bratkowski's job could be heard all over Cincinnati by the end of that year, but Palmer was once more let off the hook. This time, the porous offensive line was to blame. Carson was sacked 11 times those four games compared to 17 times in an entire season the year before.

Finally, Bratkowski promised to switch up his play-calling and the team transformed into a power-running team in '09. That transformation had an interesting effect on Carson. While his play and statistics were both solid yet modest, he seemed to operate comfortably within a run-first offense. Instead of shooting out with teams, the Bengals preferred to keep the score close and let Palmer close it out in the end—Carson was credited with three fourth-quarter comebacks and five game-winning drives that season. Even though he wasn't on pace to throw for 4,000 yards or 35 touchdowns, by mid-season it seemed he had gained back some of those legacy points.

Then Chris Henry broke his forearm and the passing game fell apart almost completely.

After the Jets beat the Bengals in the wild-card game last year, a new excuse for Palmer was born; Cincinnati simply didn't have the offensive firepower to compete in the Playoffs. To prove the point, the team sent the disappointing Laveranues Coles packing after only one season, and aggressively retooled the passing game throughout the offseason with new weapons. Of those, is a prototype new to Bratkowski and the Bengals: Jermaine Gresham. Never has Carson had a tight end of such talent and potential. Perhaps it will be the difference next January—only time will tell.

The point is that Carson Palmer is 30 years old, entering his eighth season and is effectively out of excuses to be great.

I am not dissatisfied with Palmer nor would I begin to argue for his replacement. He is a very good quarterback—perhaps within the top 10 at his position—but if he is to ever establish himself in the annals of NFL greatness, he will have to elevate his game a notch or two throughout the whole season and win in the Playoffs next season. The offensive line is fine, the running game is fierce, the new shipment of receivers is here, Bratkowski is still around but the new philosophy suits Palmer well; the time is now.

If Palmer remains in the very-good category for the rest of his career, then he should be proud of himself. Decent quarterbacks are hard to come by; it took many failed attempts before we came across one. To ask him to do more is easy from a guy with a laptop and a couch, but I still see the potential in him to be better. I still think that he can be great, but that window is closing; 2010 will cement my opinion either way.

Mojokong—People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they like—Abraham Lincoln, in a book review.

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Good article

While Palmer’s play has been erratic since his injury, I am hoping with another year of good running, he can get back in rythm. But that’s just a hope.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Apr 30, 2010 9:40 PM EDT reply actions

he'll be fine

The list of starters around the league make me glad we have Carson…..Matt Moore Josh freeman Leinart quinn or Tebow haSsleback delhomme roethlibooger vy cutler …..too many bad ones. Uggg

by quickslant on Apr 30, 2010 10:15 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

I agree other teams have it rough, but

While Rothisberger is a bad guy, he is a very good quarterback and doesn’t deserve to be lumped in with Josh Freeman and Matt Moore as far as play goes. It is also not fair to them to be mentioned in the same sentence as Big Ben with his unmatched douchebagery.

Really the way Carson played last year (final couple months) he is now a middle of the pack QB, better than the guys you listed, but can’t hold a candle to Brees, Brady, Manning, Romo, Rodgers or Rivers at this moment due to his stats. Mark Sanchez really outplayed him decisively the last two games of the season, I mean really? I still think with a better caliber of players to toss the rock to, he will rebound and sneak back into the top ten.

"You shouldn't throw rocks at a man with a machine gun." - Rowdy Roddy Piper

by St. Esiason on May 1, 2010 5:39 AM EDT up reply actions

I agree--with the talent on offense this year is it.

May sound like voodoo science, but at times, watching him last season gave me a really uneasy feeling; the only way I can describe it is he looked very much like a guy who didn’t know the play, the offense, or even the position. ‘Wait a minute’, you think to yourself, ‘this is Carson Palmer’—rocket arm, pro-bowler, human juggs machine, yada yada’—is he injured? The knee? The elbow? The thumb? He claimed all year it was the best he’d felt in a long time. There were crucial plays where he just seemed, uncomfortable, erratic, indecisive—lost.

Like I said in another thread, I hope I can laugh about how ridiculous this will seem come next February, but what I saw last year still makes me a little nervous.

by Bengals NFL Champs on Apr 30, 2010 10:15 PM EDT reply actions

No one open

I agree he did look uneasy at times. I think a lot of that had to do with not being comfortable with his receivers. I think training camp and preseason are going to be very important. He needs to get comfortable with his receivers. I don’t think he trusted any of his receivers other than Chad. If you don’t trust the players around you then you are going to be very uncomfortable. He lost his security blanket, TJ, last year and I think he never found anyone he felt remotely the same as he did TJ. Hopefully another year without TJ and the new weapons we have and he will be more relaxed and trust the talent around him.

by C1ncy4Life on May 1, 2010 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions

I hope he regains his old form..

There were a few years there when I said only Peyton Manning and Tom Brady were better than Palmer, and after him it was a big dropoff to the next guy. Then he sucked it up in 2008, then got hurt, then in 2009 he was just plain bad. He didn’t seem to be bothering to go through his progressions despite pretty solid o-line play (especially compared to the previous couple years), his throws were almost always either way too high or way too low, his arm strength seemed to have evaporated.. it was painful to watch. Towards the end of the season I was getting used to his Bernie Kosar-esque lobs so much that when I watched the later playoff games and saw quarterbacks that could actually put some effort into it I was nostalgic for the old Carson.

I hope he comes back strong, but he’ll have to do a hell of a lot better than his embarrassing 2009 performance.

by indesignkat on Apr 30, 2010 10:16 PM EDT reply actions

Well said

I don’t think he has any quit in him—but it sure looked that way at times didn’t it? I think we often give him a pass because of his good years and chalk some of it up to that laid-back, california mentality, but jeez—show a little fire, will ’ya? He can have four consecutive three-and-outs and still look like he just swallowed a bottle of percocets.

Put Peyton or Brees under center in this year’s offense (on paper, mind you) and you have a scoring machine that comes out for four quarters and steps on your throat. I hope he comes out and bitch-slaps all of us who are questioning him, but I have my doubts.

by Bengals NFL Champs on Apr 30, 2010 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Lack of a supporting cast

The only reservation I have about using that particular excuse for Carson’s shortcomings is watching what happened with the Colts this past year. Like us, they were left with one credentialed wideout, and two unheard of, small school newcomers. Unlike us, however, Peyton Manning made Collie and Garcon stars. Similarly, the Patriots won their Super Bowls without a Pro Bowl receiver at all. An elite quarterback makes those around him better and I’ve yet to see even a little of this with Carson. Caldwell and Coles should not shoulder so much of the blame for Carson’s inability to get them the ball. I mean, apparently, Coles did get open somehow in NY. His stats backed that up coming in. This guy was at least a capable journeyman receiver. Maybe injuries play a part in Carson’s obvious decline. Maybe an understandable jumpiness in the pocket from said injuries. But he really needs to get over it or his legacy will be that of what might have been.

by IgnatiusJReilly on Apr 30, 2010 10:32 PM EDT reply actions

+1

Great point.

by C1ncy4Life on May 1, 2010 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions

To Ignatius

While Colts only had 1 really good wideout they had Dallas Clark. The Tight end had 100 receptions last year. Carson had Daniel Coats….. Seriously Carson had no legit check down guy all last season.

Carson showed some absolute brilliance last year. He also looked terrible at the end of the year. He has the tools this year. If he doesn’t throw for 3,500 yards, 25TD’s, and 10 INT’s next year then call for his head. I think our offense is going to be unreal if everyone can stay healty.

by Throw the ball on May 1, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions

Absolute Agreement

Moving into this year there won’t be any bail-outs for Carson. He has to come through and make his team better. He will have as good a receiving corps as he ever had. If Gresham turns out to be a good blocker as well as receiver his stock as a receiver will surely go up. This year if Chad is doubled there shoud be plenty of options for him so Carson has to be accurate – No over-throwing!

by Law1951 on May 3, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions

A perfect storm

Let me start by saying that, even when he had time, there were times when Carson blatantly overthrew receivers or forced it.

That said, I don’t think it’s entirely his fault. I view it as a perfect storm: depleted WR corps, bad pass-blocking o-line (upgraded from bad o-line period), Brat’s rudimentary playcalling, and his own nervousness in the pocket. (In the past, lack of running game was an issue, as well.) And let’s not forget all the drops and o-line penalties from last year; he was fighting an uphill battle.

We’ve addressed only one of those four—we’ve given him a new TE and more/theoretically better WRs. We didn’t draft a guard high, Brat is still here, and Zampese hasn’t talked about Carson like anything is wrong (though I wouldn’t really expect him to).

We’ve seen how Brady and Manning can elevate inferior WRs…granted, they’re in good systems, and Carson really isn’t. No-huddle ball-control is just kind of crazy, isn’t it? That’s ultimately Marvin’s fault, as he tries to have a smashmouth offense with a pocket-passer QB and no real running game or TE threat until now. (Yeah, there was Rudi, but that was mainly the now-gone elite o-line.)

This has to be Carson’s year to step it up. We didn’t help him as much as we could have, but I think we’ve given him enough to succeed. He just has to take advantage.

by Big Sky Bengal on Apr 30, 2010 10:38 PM EDT reply actions

I'll give you the Bobby B thing, for sure.

If I had to play under that guy, I’d have to throw up before taking the field every Sunday.

But that doesn’t go very far in calming my fear that we may have a great team for the next three years, languishing because we’re committed to a QB who was once elite but is now, at best, mediocre.

It pains me to even type that.

by Bengals NFL Champs on Apr 30, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions

(In the past, lack of running game was an issue, as well.)

Until Rudi got hurt and starting missing a lot of time, the running game was never a problem in Carson’s history with the team. If the coaching staff had played Kenny Watson a little more it wouldn’t have been a problem when Rudi was hurt, but they left Rudi and his hobble-for-1.2-ypc in there instead.

by indesignkat on May 1, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions

I agree that it wasn't a problem...

…but it wasn’t exactly a strength, either. Rudi is our all-time stat leader, IIRC, but I maintain that it was mainly the o-line, not him or the playcalling.

And, yes, either Marvin or Brat is really hung up on the “run one guy to death” idea.

by Big Sky Bengal on May 1, 2010 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions

Remember Rudi meeting Ray Lewis at the 4 and driving him backward into the end zone? The o-line wasn’t anywhere near. Rudi was a badass before he got hurt and then was kept in there for months when he should have been recovering.

by indesignkat on May 1, 2010 2:33 AM EDT reply actions

"beleaguered offensive coordinator—who only two seasons earlier was hailed by the city as an offensive genius"

sorry that’s never been the case.

bratt was viewed by just as many fans during the good offensive years as the weakest link on the offense as bratt is during the bad offensive years.

his calls are too conservative, he lacks the ability to utilized the talent on the roster, he routinely makes stellar talent look mediocre. the players that have been successful on offense in cincy during bratts time have done so in spite of his offensive game plan.

"wherever Brad St. Louis is and Shayne Graham is about to be." -R.F. Mehl

by palewook on May 1, 2010 10:14 AM EDT reply actions

+1 on all of the above -- The only place in pro football

where Bobby B could be employed is Cincinnati. My 8 yr. old can tell me what play is coming next when our offense is on the field.

by Bengals NFL Champs on May 1, 2010 12:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

Yea he was not hailed as a football genius in Cincy

There was talk that he was one of the hottest Coordinators that year. However I think most of us in Cincy didn’t feel that way. That being said, I will give him credit that he was a good coordinator that year but NOT WAY he was a “Genius”. He has never been one who got the best out of the talent on the Offense. If you look at a coordinator like Zimmer, he is very creative in finding ways to get his best players on the field and get them as many snaps as possible. He also finds ways to put them in position to exploit their strengths and cover up their weakness. Brat is the worst at this. It kills me that he has no creativity. This is why he can NEVER be considered a Genius. Like I said I’ll give him credit. He had a good year in 2005. It has also hurt us that he did hve a good year. He still thinks it is 2005 and that calling the same plays are going to work.

by C1ncy4Life on May 2, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions

Perhaps genius was too strong of a word, but....

…Very few of us criticized Bratkowski in 2005.

B. Clifton Burke

by Mojokong on May 2, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions

Great article

No excuses. This year we get some answers.

by Phil Francis on May 1, 2010 11:19 AM EDT reply actions

coming to a head

this year feels like a good thing, our defense is good if not great, our offense can run the ball almost at will, our receivers are dramatically better than last year, our golden-armed quarterback should be set to drive us to the promised land, a lot is expected of him and a lot is put on his shoulders, but he deserves and probably expects that, it is truely up to him at this point, Carson, stay healthy and win us a trophy, if not, it is pretty much on your head, WHO DEY BABY!!!

by whodeydoc on May 1, 2010 11:23 AM EDT reply actions

What do you mean our D is Good but not Great?

I would disagree. Our D is rock-solid this year.

In regard to Carson, if he doesn’t have at least 8 games of 300 yards or more, I’d say it’s time to draft high next year for a QB.

by UpStateMike on May 1, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions

So Carson needs to be on track for 4800 yards just to be decent in your mind? C'mon

by Throw the ball on May 1, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions

I didn't say that.

8 × 300 = 2400
8 × 200 = 1600
16 total = 4000

I don’t think an average of 250 ypg for our elite QB with tons of weapons, an established running game, and a decent o-line is asking for that much.

by UpStateMike on May 1, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't think you can put numbers like that on Carson

The reason being Our Defense is so good and we run the ball so effectively I don’t think you can put a number on how many yards passing he has. If you want to use a stat possibly use Int’s or completion percentage. He probably won’t have to throw the ball enough to get a chance at those type of numbers. Carson could have a GREAT year and only have 1-2 300 yard games because of our D and running game, IMO.

by C1ncy4Life on May 2, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions

UpStateMike... I think you misunderstood what he was saying.

I think what he is saying our defense is good if not great. Meaning they are good and could very possibly be considered Great. Correct me if I’m wrong whodeydoc but I think he was meaning that they this year they could be considered Great but that they are at the very least good.

by C1ncy4Life on May 2, 2010 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions