Cincinnati Bengals Don't Get No Respect, Part 8,792
by BeerRun on May 18, 2010 7:39 PM EDT
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PrintSo, Peter King ranked the Cincinnati Bengals 23rd in his last MMQB column
I'm surprised. I would have predicted at least 30th.
This won't come as a revelation to anyone who pays attention to the coverage the Bengals get from the media, especially the national variety, but "respect" isn't exactly the default position. Even when they are doing well, their accomplishments are ignored, brushed aside or waved away. There was a piece in USA Today a couple weeks back ranking the 20 league personnel men who have been on the job at least three years.
Anyone want to take a stab at who No. 20 was? Hint: Raiders owner Al Davis is No. 19.
In his rankings, King says that he would bet that every Bengals fan is worried about Carson Palmer. Me, I would bet that the number of Bengals fans willing to trade Mike Brown for Undead Al is vanishingly small.
But that's the way it goes in Bengaldom. Recent accomplishments are ho-hum'd in favor of exhuming an increasingly distant past. Note this standard only applies to the Bengals. For the Raiders, a quarter-century of failure is glossed over, but boy, Al had a team back when leisure suits were cool, eh?
Of course, should a Cincinnati Bengal get a ticket for littering, we'll never hear the end of it. Never mind that the team's ugly series of arrests is four years old and counting, or that other teams have since found themselves embroiled in even uglier criminal investigations (*cough* Ben Roethlisberger *cough*), the "fact" that the Bengals are "thugs" is as ingrained in the media narrative as is the "fact" that they suck.
Even if the Bengals do well this year -- and I believe they will -- I don't expect this situation to change. If it was going to, it would have done so by now. By any objective measure, the Bengals have indeed "turned the corner," despite King's doubts to the contrary. That they turned the corner back in 2003 is evidenced by their 56-55-1 record since. A .500 record may not seem like much to brag about, but those 56 games won in the past seven seasons is more than they won in the 12 seasons from 1991 to 2002. Franchise founder Paul Brown had almost exactly the same record as head coach of the Bengals as Marvin Lewis does now. Sam Wyche got the Bengals to a Super Bowl with a worse overall record; Lewis might have done it, too, had Kimo von Kneecapper not intervened.
Historically speaking, the anomaly isn't the last seven years, it's the "Lost Decade" in the 1990s. From their inception in 1968 to 1990, the Bengals were a .490 club. The they went into the toilet for 12 seasons. Since '03, they've been back at their traditional level.
That isn't to argue that they are world-beaters, or that fans shouldn't expect -- and demand -- better. It's just to note how fouled up the media is when it comes to analyzing this team. Reporting on it? They can do that well. But here in the silly season, when pages have to be filled whether there is something to talk about or not, the sports media's lack of interest in questioning its own assumptions becomes obvious.
My advice? Sit back and enjoy. Let them keep dumping on the team, ranking it among the dregs of the league and pimping the Steelers and Ravens. Not getting any respect seemed to serve the Bengals pretty well in 2009. Why change a winning formula?
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Totally agree with the last paragraph
Its still going to bother us, so atleast you know it is going to bother the players. I don’t care what they claim most if not all of them pay attention to this kind of stuff. All of them may not let it get to their heads but they see this. I wouldn’t be surprised if Zimmer posted some of this type of stuff in some of the Defensive players locker room. That would be motivation, IMO.
Sit back and enjoy. Let them keep dumping on the team, ranking it among the dregs of the league and pimping the Steelers and Ravens. Not getting any respect seemed to serve the Bengals pretty well in 2009.
The Bengals won’t get any more respect until they can prove that they can win consistently. The Steelers and the Ravens get more respect because they have consistently made the playoffs recently. Any team can have a fluke season. Just ask the 2007 Browns.
Let’s face it. The Bengals have been bad for several years and even lost their first playoff game last season. They still have much to prove. Respect must be earned. Make the playoffs again and things will begin to change.
No, it. won't Trust me.
Because it isn’t about what’s happened on the field. Let’s take the Bengals and the Ravens.
Quick question: what’s the difference in the two teams’ records over the last seven seasons?
Answer: seven games. The Ravens have been an average of one win per season better. That’s it.
Yet Ozzie is No. 4…and Brown is 20. King ranks the Ravens 3…and Cincy 23.
They weren't talking about the last 7 years
They were talking about the whole body of work. No one wants to trade for Al Davis now, but he’s had 1 more good run than MB has. Mike Brown still deserves 20th though he might be catching up to Al Davis.
The 23rd thing is nuts though.
by New Red Machine on May 18, 2010 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, if we are comparing the "whole body of work"
…shouldn’t Undead Al rank above Andy Reid (no. 7) based on good run 25 years ago?
What about playoff appearances? What about playoff wins? Don’t manipulate the statistics.
All that matters in the NFL are playoff wins and Championship victories. The Ravens and the Steelers can boast both within the last decade. Rome wasn’t built in a day… Neither were the Steelers, Colts, Patriots or Ravens. The Bengals are headed in the right direction. That should be enough for a true fan.
It’s not like the Bengals are coming out of nowhere. Two division crowns in the last 5 years, is actually more than the Ravens have. Obviously, we both have good ball clubs, but the difference in King’s projections has nothing to do with how the teams are built going into next year, and everything to do with how the teams have done in the past.
I think that all we want is for people to recognize this team for what it is.
This is our year!
by Paul Cannon on May 18, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree that the Bengals are better and more solid than in the past, but opinions don’t change overnight. You can’t expect everyone to give respect based on a couple good regular season records. There needs to be consistency and meaningful wins.
I’ve never said that the Bengals are bad. I just don’t think that they’ve earned the respect that you guys believe they have.
I don’t want respect based on a couple of regular season records. I want respect based on the team that we are putting out on the field next year, which in my opinion is pretty damn good. Let’s look forward, not backward.
This is our year!
by Paul Cannon on May 19, 2010 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Every fan of every team thinks that their favorite team has improved (except maybe Bills fans).
We won’t know for sure until the season starts. We’ll see you guys on September 19th. I honestly can’t wait.
I guess we can agree on that one. It’ll be on my calendar for sure.
This is our year!
by Paul Cannon on May 19, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
What?
For a second there it sounded like we are defending Mikey Boy as a solid personnel man worthy of recognition and accolades…REALLY?
that's funny
because you can say what you will about the playoffs, but head to head, we own the ravens.
RIP Slim.
I have no need to manipulate stats...
They speak for themselves. The Bengals and Ravens simply aren’t anywhere near as far apart as these two articles suggest. My purpose here isn’t to argue about who is “really” better, simple to point out that the facts don’t support the crazy disparity in their perception by the national media. That (IMHO, of course) has to do with media narratives, not what’s going on on the field.
Let’s let the stats “speak for themselves.” I’ll only show the Ravens and Bengals because you said they were “close.”
Over the last decade…
The Ravens’ overall record is 92-67 in the regular season.
The Bengals’ overall record is 68-91 in the regular season.
The Ravens have made 6 playoff appearances.
The Bengals have made 2 playoff appearances.
The Ravens have won 8 post-season games including 2 Conference Championship game appearances and 1 Super Bowl victory.
The Bengals have not won a single post-season game since 1990.
Thanks...
for helping prove my point. Let’s see, you’ve had to drag out the timeframe to 10 years (in order to get the average from one game to two games (!) per season better) and haul in a 10-year-old Super Bowl. I’m sorry, but I don’t see a very convincing case here.
I thought a decade was a fair time-table. People still remember the last decade of games and many of the players are still playing. I noticed that you conveniently set the time frame to 7 years to help you out. I guess you wanted to leave out the 2-14 record from the 2002 season. You were mocking my ten year time frame that helped my argument… talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
If you insist on 7 years, that’s fine. The stats “speak for themselves.” Over the last 7 years…
The Ravens’ overall record is 63-49 in the regular season.
The Bengals’ overall record is 56-56 in the regular season.
The Ravens have made 4 playoff appearances.
The Bengals have made 2 playoff appearances.
The Ravens have won 3 post-season games including 1 Conference Championship game appearance.
The Bengals STILL have not won a single post-season game since 1990.
Here’s another stat that can speak for itself…
The Ravens have had 5 winning records in the last 7 years. Only 2 bad seasons.
The Bengals have had 2 winning records in the last 7 years. Only 2 good seasons.
only statistic that's true
bengals 9-5 against the ravens since 03. it’s 10-9 in the last decade, but lewis took over in 03 which generally marks the rebuilding of the franchise.
RIP Slim.
They can beat the Ravens all they want. As long as the overall records, playoff appearances, post-season wins and winning records continue to favor the Ravens, I’ll be happy. You can have the wins versus the Ravens. I’ll take post-season wins and appearances any day.
Past doesn't matter for this upcoming season
5 Superbowls don’t help you make the postseason. Yea Yea I know you will say it helps with the culture. Thats not my point. My point is that this projection was supposed to be of what is going to happen THIS season. Why would you look back more than a year or two when most football teams have half their roster turned over in 3 years?
I agree. The other guys were bringing up the past when they said that the Ravens and Bengals are similar teams based on past records and statistics. I was just refuting that ridiculous argument. I realize that past glory doesn’t make good team today.
I’m the biggest proponent of judging a team based on THIS season. Ironically, that’s the biggest reason I’m still a little skeptical about the Bengals. They got exposed and destroyed in the playoffs and need to prove that they can bounce back from that. Last season was great, but if they show a strong performance next season, I’ll start to give the Bengals some respect. That was my original comment (go back and read it), and everyone got fired up at me for it.
In that regard then
You should be on a wait and see with flacco too. He got exposed pretty handily as well in the playoffs. Horrible games. And the only reason they won the first game was new englands implosion.
I think most teams in our division want to judge based on the current season because we’re all tired of hearing about the steelers 6 superbowls from their fans.
RIP Slim.
by brandone on May 19, 2010 9:26 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree about Flacco. He has accomplished more than most fans dared to hope for but still has much to prove. Luckily, he has many more weapons this season… and no more excuses.
Pretty much
The same way we feel aboutour qb.
RIP Slim.
by brandone on May 19, 2010 10:43 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Did you hear we have six Lombardis?
har har har
The future is not what it used to be.
by John Stephens on May 19, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Let’s go back to that wildcard game and see how we “got exposed.”
Final Score: NYJ 24, CIN 14
A 10 pt loss, but look a little closer, and you’ll also notice a kicker who missed 2 field goals, both 35 yards or less. I know there’s no going back, but that puts the score at 24-20.
We gave up a lot of rushing yards – to the #1 rushing team in the NFL. Did they play their best? Nope. But let’s not think for a second that the Jets weren’t capable of putting those kinda #’s up on most every team in the NFL.
We struggled throwing the ball (almost nobody gets passed Revis), just like we did all year after Henry went down. But we dominated their supposed #1 rush defense in the league. Benson went crazy for 169 yards in that game.
So we lost to a really good NFL team that was peaking at the right time, but we weren’t “destroyed” like you said we were.
Have I changed your mind about the Bengals yet? :)
I get what you’re saying Hawk, I just disagree completely.
This is our year!
by Paul Cannon on May 19, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
That doesn’t really change my mind. The Bengals were destroyed in that game. At the start of the fourth, the score was 21-7, and everyone watching knew the Jets were handling the Bengals all game long. That was a crushing loss for the Bengals. You could see it on their faces walking off the field. That’s what I was talking about.
You can make as many excuses as you want, but good teams win those games. Remember the 2008 AFC Championship game? The Ravens only lost to the Steelers by 9 points (less than what the Bengals lost by), but the game wasn’t even close. The Steelers handled the Ravens in that game and were the better team. I’m not going to sit here and say that they lost to the Super Bowl champs to make myself feel better and get more respect. No way! They needed to improve… period and earn the respect. After that loss, I knew that the next season wasn’t going to be easy, and it wasn’t. Teams were gunning for the Ravens last season, and the early 3-game losing streak reflects that.
The Bengals are in a similar boat. They can’t expect everyone to bow down. They must bring even more intensity next season. It’s harder to repeat because teams are gunning for them now, and they have some good teams in their own division. If even one drop of blood gets in the water, there’s going to be a frenzy. I’m interested to see how they handle the pressure. All of your desired respect hangs on that.
people aren't going to bow down
but considering most of your comments, as well as those of the media, no one’s gunning for them. we have the 4th hardest schedule, on top of playing in the toughest division. no one expects us to get more than 8 wins. but i don’t see that being the case. they can start gunning at midseason when we’re 7-1. and since this is a bengals blog, it’s ok for that homerism. haha.
i actually like baltimore. they’re my 2nd favorite team in the division and i like what they do over there. i think the addition of boldin and another season under rice’s wing is going to make that offense scary. the issue for your team is the secondary outside of ed reed and the aging front 7.
RIP Slim.
Believe me… Teams will be gunning for the Bengals next season. I’ve seen it many times before. That was one of the biggest factors in the implosion of the 2008 Browns after their 10-6 record. You will remember this conversation next season.
The Ravens’ front seven is actually young now with the additions of Kruger (to replace Pryce), Cody (to replace Gregg), Kindle (to add another pass-rusher), and Jones and Redding (to replace Edwards and Bannan). Lewis is the only old starter left unless you count Reed, who is 31, but Reed has two great safeties (Zbikowski and Nakamura) behind him. Zbikowski started two games for Reed last year and had two picks in those games.
Ozzie has done an excellent job of introducing young talent over the last few seasons.
I think you are crazy if you don’t believe the Steelers, Ravens, and Browns will be gunning for you. There is a lot of pride in the AFC North and that is why it is very hard to repeat as the champ every year.
The future is not what it used to be.
by John Stephens on May 19, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Shoot, I thought I had a game changing argument. :)
Honestly, where I think you’re going wrong is that you’re not giving the Jets enough credit. Don’t forget they went on to beat the team that everybody had pegged going to the super bowl: the Chargers. We lost to a team that was playing better than us. There’s no way around that, and all the credit goes to the Jets in that win. However, it’s not a point that has me worried going into this season. As far as I can tell, we’ve added some important pieces, and have a lot that we can build on from last year.
This is our year!
A lot of people also forget that the Jets were 9-7 and slid ass-backwards into the playoffs winning their last two games against back up players.
They got hot at the right time to beat you all and the Chargers are the perennial choke artists in the playoffs. When is the last time they did not lose in the first round after being a heavy favorite?
The future is not what it used to be.
by John Stephens on May 19, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
We are talking about this upcoming season ONLY
These rankings weren’t who won the most in the past. It is based off what it predicted for this coming season. Look at the roster. Look at what the players on THIS team have done. The teams from 2 years ago didn’t have half of these players that are on the team now. So comparing this team to any team other than last years is useless based on what you are predicting for this coming season. I mean Akili Smith isn’t lining up at QB so why even bring up the Bengals past. Like I said I can see looking at last year because the players are the same. You can’t even look at 2 years ago with this team however because most of the players have changed and because we had a backup QB playing most of the games.
The 7-year time frame
…was set simply because it marks the point where Lewis took over as head coach and the team reverted to its historical norm. It seemed a bit more relevant than throwing in three more years which I’ve already tagged as an anomaly and from which (to your point) there are very few Bengals players still playing. And again, during that time frame, the Ravens are winning one more game a season, and have a whopping two more playoff games. I’m still not seeing enough to justify that one team has teh awesome front office and is a playoff shoe-in, while the other sucks and has no chance based on the record.
Now, based on the idea that the Ravens won a Super Bowl in 2000 and the Bengals sucked in the 1990s? Well, that’s the media narrative I’m talking about. But I don’t see much there that’s applicable to 2010.
You get respect by winning
you don’t get that much respect without a playoff win, simple as that. Last year the Bengals beat their division foes and pretty much nobody else, and then got the snot knocked out of them by Revis and the Jets
by occams_tiger_teeth on May 19, 2010 2:43 AM EDT reply actions
I'd like to remind you those same Jets continue to win an made a deep playoff run
Just like in 2005. The team that beat us that year won the Superbowl. Need I mention the fact that we would have won that very game if Palmer didn’t go down? So to say the Bengals don’t have respect simply because they haven’t won a playoff game isn’t accurate. On top of that most aren’t saying we should be ranked #1. We are just saying that we should have been ranked far higher than King’s 23 and should be a little higher in most similar rankings. Nobody says we should be 1. We just want RESPECT. That doesn’t mean that we want to be talked about like the Patriots. Just stop dogging us every chance they get. Its not justified based on the numbers the last few years!
King is an idiot. The Bengals are much better than 23, but I’m still not picking them to make the playoffs again.
I’m sorry. It’s not hatred… It’s what I honestly believe (as objectively as possible) based on my football knowledge. I would put the Bengals as the best team that won’t make the playoffs next season. In case you’re wondering, that’s 13th overall.
We'll see...
This team has lost 0 important players last year and added tremendous depth to our lineup. Via the draft and free agency. I’m very excited for them to prove the outsiders wrong
but
we also have one of the hardest schedules in the NFL for 2010 too.
if we finish 10-6 this year, we’ll have a bye week for Wildcard Weekend.
9-7 means we are the wildcard.
8-8 we are on the cusp and won’t be in the playoffs unless something weird happens in the AFC.
by UpStateMike on May 19, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Respect?
How is this for respect? Yahoo Sport’s Jason Cole has Bengals and Carson Palmer ranked #11 on his QB rankings, could be but the slam is that he ranks the “Roethlisbergerless” Steelers at #7and adds the comment, “It’s worth wondering whether Palmer, 30, will ever really deliver on his promise or whether his career will get swallowed up by the swirling vortex of suckage that is the Bengals organization.”
We should feel like Rodney Dangerfield.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AgL8xoY6ndhHldoxXr.vPkpDubYF?slug=jc-qbrankings051810
What is politically correct today probably won't be tomorrow. God bless the Miami nation.
Here is my official stance on all Critism regarding the 2010 Bengals
Fuck ’em.
I was estatic we had a team I was proud to watch last year. They won the AFC North Title. They had a real, honest to God running game and a solid Defense. Sure, we lost some crucial games at the end, both to the Jets, who were firing on all cylinders at the end of the season to make it very deep in the playoffs and were damn close to going to the dance.
Now it’s 2010. We dumped some dead weight. We made some great moves to fix some glaring weaknesses and shored up key positions on both sides of the ball. If the team has a great offseason and they actually secure a solid backup QB (I believe this is our biggest issue at this moment) to come into the game if Carson goes down, we should expect to see some post season play. The other big what if is with Carson. we’re all banking on him to rise like the Pheonix and take us to the promised land. I hope for him and us he does just that. I expect nothing less from the team leader.
So….Fuck ’em.
23rd is PERFECT!!
Peter King ranked the Saints 24th last year in the same column. We all know how that turned out! He even mentioned how Sean Peyton said “not bad for 24” to him before walking up to the podium after the victory.
I have no idea why respect around the league is so important to Bengal fans
I for one could care less about the respect of the rest of the league. Just incase you, my fellow Bengal fans, don’t get it yet let me fill you in.
All Raven and Steeler fans actually believe that their cheerleaders, equipment managers and hotdog vendors are all better than any player on the Bengals team. Whenever we beat them it is a fluke and whenever they beat us it is a mighty victory. If we beat them by 30 points it is luck. If they beat us by a FG it was total domination. We don’t even belong in the league and they are, every year the best team that ever stepped onto the field. Carson is trash and Flacco is already a shoo in for the HOF. All of their WRs, even their backups, run faster and catch better than any receiver we have on the roster. They can’t help it. They are just wired that way. They would rather eat dirt than say anything good about the Bengals. The love it when we beg for respect. I say spit on their respect. I don’t want it and I don’t need it.
I have been on the boards when one of theirs actually complimented a Bengals player and there is generally an feeding frenzy of posters who are willing to eat their own to protect their egos. Begging for their respect engrandizes them and they love it. while they look down from their lofty perch and piss on us while some of us beg for the drenching.
I say no more. Loath us. Hate us. Disrespect us all you want. When play you at home or in Cincy we will not be hard to find, We will be on the other side of the field waiting for game time. Of course if we win there will be a ton of excuses and if we lose it will be because they are the Gods of the gridiron. That is they way it is and that is the way it is always going to be. I would still rather be a Bengal fan.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
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