Carson Palmer Makes John Clayton's List of Elite Quarterbacks
by Josh Kirkendall on Jun 16, 2010 4:26 PM EDT
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PrintTo say that Carson Palmer has lost his edge, perhaps losing his "elite" title, is a justified argument either side could make. Now, I'm not saying you should label him by such titles by any means. But when adjusting your opinion, thinking of the topic that we've touched on several times this offseason, you have to include several factors into your discussion. Such as being injured most of 2008, team focusing on a run-first offensive philosophy and the lack of help that Palmer had with receivers and tight ends in 2009. All of these things combined obviously hurt Palmer's status.
Before all of that started in 2008 (which includes said offensive transition in 2009), Palmer had just recorded 4,131 yards passing (personal best), completed 64.9% of his passes (second best in his career) and 373 completed passes (also a personal best). True, the 2007 squad passed the football more than they have during any other Carson Palmer season. After that, Palmer was hurt in 2008 and forced to hand the football off most of 2009.
If you want to say that Palmer lost his "elite" status, that's fine with me. If you're like me and would rather reserve judgment, that's fine with me too.
ESPN's John Clayton still thinks highly of Palmer, listing him as one of 14 elite quarterbacks in the league. I know, if you have 14 out of a possible 32 teams, elite tends to seem a bit overused, doesn't it?
AFC
Tom Brady, New England
Joe Flacco, Baltimore
Peyton Manning, Indianapolis
Carson Palmer, Cincinnati
Philip Rivers, San Diego
Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh
Matt Schaub, Houston
NFC
Drew Brees, New Orleans
Brett Favre, Minnesota
Donovan McNabb, Washington
Eli Manning, New York Giants
Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay
Tony Romo, Dallas
Matt Ryan, Atlanta
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Yeah, he’s overusing elite. At the very least, it should be top-10 only or better.
So here, I’ll trim two names off each list that clearly are not elite, and leave it at that. And let the flame wars from their fans commence. But Tiny Ben, and Joe Flacco clearly are not elite. Very good, yes, elite no. And similarly Eli Manning and Matt Ryan are a flat joke to include on this list. Again pretty good, maybe even very good, but elite, not remotely.
I'll agree
You could file Ryan and Flacco into budding stars, but elite? Not yet. Ben and Eli are guys on teams that thier defense won them superbowls but get too much credit (yes, they are clutch, but clutch =/= elite). But how in the world does Homo make the list? He has good stretches, then chokes. He turns it over like a champ and has one post season win and one December that wouldn’t be labled as laughable.
Wait wait wait, so Flacco who has 3 playoff wins is not elite but your precious Carson is elite with no playoff wins. Yea, that makes sense.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
There is tendency to overblow the contribution of a QB who joins an already good team and makes them better. Flacco joined tems which were already contenders and took them to higher heights. Trent Dilfer took a very similar Ravens team and won the superbowl. Does that make him an elite QB? no. It is harder to build a team from scratch as Peyton did, Carson or Kurt Warner. The Ravens were 13-3 with McNair 2 years before Flacco joined. They were contenders who lacked a good QB. The Bengals were 2-13 the year before Palmer joined he he took us to 2 play-off apearances. The first play-off appearances in 15 years. There are other changes on both teams, but yes, I do think that what Carson has done is closer to elite than Flacco.
Until Carson can win in the post season, he is not elite. None of the elite QB’s in the league are just regular season performers, they make it happen in January, something Carson has never done.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
I am sure that Flacco’s 50% postseason completion percentage to go witha 6-1 INT to TD ratio has won the games for Baltimore. What QB could do more than that to help his team win?
Well that depends on whether you use a dictionary or you use your personal feelings to define the word “elite”.
I understand you love Flacco. Absolutely understandable, completely normal, you should have a man-crush on your team’s QB. And he is very good, no doubt about that whatsoever. But in no way, shape or form is he “elite”. He made your team better, yes. He didn’t carry a completely piece of crap team — or even just a very weak one — on his shoulders single-handedly. Case closed.
Flacco?
Team wins do not make a quarterback elite, and teams loses does not mean he is not elite. You can argue the past couple of seasons Carson has not been “all there”. But, given the same team in the same situations I would take Carson over most, and definitly over Flacco.
by EastTennBengal on Jun 17, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Not my team
I like the Eagles. It would be tough to put Carson in the elite status, but in 2005 I would say he was much more on his way than Flacco. And I’m not talking about Playoffs, which no one here wants to relive what happened (except for you maybe). Palmer’s career has been sidetracked, and yes, if he never regains form then he won’t be an elite QB. I think he will get back on that road now that he has some guns. As for Flacco, things look good, but he’s not there. He could come off the rails just as easily. Why you gotta take issue with this anyway. Because I didn’t bow down in devotion to your QB like you do? I actually said he was good. Don’t you have anything better to do with your time other than try and change the degree of people’s opions from positive to absolute worship?
Brady, Manning, Favre and Brees IMO are the only ones I would consider elite.
I think it Carson was elite but he needs to reestablish himself to get there again. Flacco has been in the league for only two years but his best year is comparable to Carsons worse full year. Can he become elite? Maybe, but he hasn’t shown it yet. Carson has had that status. Flacco only has the potential to do it. Until he does – no to Joe.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
Not Favre
he’s blown too many big games personally.
Brady and Manning and Brees. That’s elite.
by occams_tiger_teeth on Jun 16, 2010 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
It's all semantics.
Are these the top 14 QB’s in the league? Probably. However, when I think “elite”, I think top 10%. Brady, Manning, Brees, and maybe Favre. Carson’s not up there with these guys…he has elite talent but not elite performance/results. There are, of course, mitigating factors that we’ve all discussed ad nauseam, but he’s not there yet. He can get there this year.
Agreed
Maybe the term elite was incorrect, but they are probably the only 14 guys who shouldn’t have competition to start. That is one of the issues with bringing in a better back-up QB, few will want to sign if they know they have no chance to start.
I agree jim.
That is want I want an aging vet who may be too old to go more than 8 games and still be effective. One who can still do it but is just looking to contribute and stay in the game another year or two and draw a pay check to pad his retirement. I know he isn’t available but Kitna is a perfect example. I wouldn’t mind seeing us try to work out a deal Dallas that would be mutually beneficial. There has to be someone better than JTO (Just Terrible Overall)
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
Maybe Mark Bulger would work
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
I had my doubts about Favre too. I actually went back and added him before I posted
Favre it the kind of guy who plays great but when he goes down – he goes down in flames. His overall body of work is at least borderline elite.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
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