The Legendary Fight of the Year: Bengals Wide Receiver Position Battle Heats Up Before Training Camp
by Josh Kirkendall on Jun 18, 2010 9:30 AM EDT
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PrintJordan Shipley impressed James Walker as the ESPN writer wrote that he was "very impressive. The third-round pick caught everything this week. He's already developing a good rapport with quarterback Carson Palmer, and Shipley has a good knack for finding the open seams of the defense." Geoff Hobson wrote:
Quarterback Carson Palmer hit six of eight passes in the one-minute drill, three over the middle to Shipley as he flashed his slot moves against a variety of defenders. After getting behind safety Gibril Wilson, on the next snap Shipley beat 11-year middle linebacker Dhani Jones over the middle and ripped the ball away from the tight coverage. Standing up for his new man, Palmer didn’t like it when Shipley ended up hitting the deck on the play and let the defense know everyone is supposed to stay on their feet in no-contact drills.
Most reports out of camp are suggesting the same thing. Receivers expected to make the roster, in order of depth chart prediction, are Chad Ochocinco, Antonio Bryant, Jordan Shipley and Andre Caldwell. The bigger question is what happens with the final two spots, assuming the Bengals take six receivers into the regular season. Joe Reedy wrote that Matt Jones "displayed nice hands throughout OTAs and minicamp, but he has been getting off the line slow." Jerome Simpson made a few awesome catches, but "there were also some drops from Simpson this week." Quan Cosby's path to making the team likely rests the on special teams battle for punt returner. If anything was learned after this week's minicamp, it's that the wide receiver position is going to be really tough to predict.
So what's your six-man wide receiver depth chart prediction?
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6man reciever depth chart:
CHAD, ANTONIO, JORDAN, ANDRE, QUAN and MATT
There's going to be 7..
Chad, Antonio, Jordan, Jerome, Andre, Matt, and Quan. Dez being put on PS along with Quan if they do go with 6. But IMO, they will find a way to keep one or both no matter what.
I hope that the Bengals are smart enough to know that if they put Dez Briscoe on the practice squad,
that he wouldn’t last there a week if healthy. The only good thing about Briscoe right now is he’s gimpy with that groin injury, so nobody’s been able to see what he can do in the event that he DOES land on the PS.
by Craig Conrad on Jun 18, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that's why I said that may
try and find a way to keep him or them. PUP list or IR or something to that nature might not be out of the question. Paying Briscoe under the table to redshirt, kinda sorta thing. He can sit and learn…
I agree..
Briscoe, if not ready, is perfect for IR. Let him learn under Chad for a year than lets play some ball.
by 80%OFTHETIMEIMRIGHTEVERYTIME on Jun 18, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
they wont
they know his potential, thats like forfeiting a draft pick
by Makin Edwards on Jun 19, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
...
Ok, what I’d like, is for Caldwell to get traded. I don’t care if we don’t get much but I much prefer Shipley at slot than him. Then you’ve got a promising offseason for Simpson, which has won me over, at least of what I’ve seen, so I’m willing to give him a chance. Cosby is good but is out of room in my opinion. Jones looks fav and Briscoe looks like our #1 of the future.
1.OCHO
2.BRYANT
3.SHIPLEY
4.SIMPSON
5.JONES
6.BRISCOE
If you don't live like you wanna, you live like you shouldn't
Agree 100% with this post.
Ocho/Bryant are a given.
Shipley has enormous potential and looks to be an immediate contributor.
Simpson is finally getting it.
Jones brings a unique skill set.
Briscoe is the future.
Caldwell is okay, but given our other options he will provide the most added value to this team through a trade.
I'd rather have Caldwell than Jones..
Jones is a big target.. but is sllllooowwww. Caldwell is the quickest receiver we have at the moment, keep him.
Def should not attempt to put Briscoe on the PS.. the dude can run routes fast and jump higher than any of our current WR’s.
by 80%OFTHETIMEIMRIGHTEVERYTIME on Jun 18, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
...
Jones is slow? I believe people are talking about how he burned passed Hall a couple of times this offseason.
If you don't live like you wanna, you live like you shouldn't
Jones is only slow off the line,
which doesn’t really matter for the role he’ll likely fill, which is a deep threat guy. He’s got very good top end speed.
+1 He ran a 4.2 40 or something at the combine
im sure he hasn’t lost all that speed
In Zim We Trust......Collaros for Heisman
by TennBengalfan on Jun 18, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
...
Plus, why would you need two slot guys? Shipley is our future, not “fumble” Caldwell.
If you don't live like you wanna, you live like you shouldn't
Like John Thornton said...
Caldwell looks like the best WR to get a late round draft pick out of a trade, I say trade him!!
In Zim We Trust......Collaros for Heisman
by TennBengalfan on Jun 18, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
jones is a taller faster target
caldwell is not that good, he is not that good of a route runner, hes good at running inseam routes in soft zone coverages but man to man he finds trouble getting separation, jones brings more size advantage like the 3rd and long moments and also short passing downs too
by Makin Edwards on Jun 19, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
yea
yea I wanna see how good briscoe is gonna be, i think he might end up being a superstar
by Makin Edwards on Jun 19, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I told you guys on draft night that you'd love Shipley.....
The kid just has “it”. He’ll get open. He’ll catch the ball. He’ll get plenty of YAC. He won’t complain. He won’t get into trouble off the field. He is a matchup nightmare out of the slot.
I remember you saying that.
I knew you were right as soon as I watched a couple highlight videos. I can’t wait to see what this kid can do.
Everyone should have known he was right from watching the BCS championsip game.
Gresham and Shipley were my 2 fav picks
yea shipley is good
when we first drafted him i was pissed because I wanted gilyar then when i seen thos highlights i was happy as hell
by Makin Edwards on Jun 19, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
There has been a few of us on here that have been constantly saying this...
He will be a fan favorite and a Palmer go to guy. He does have ‘it’ and he has a sick knack to get open underneath. Shipley will control the middle and Carson will come to depend on him more and more as the year goes on. Shipley is not afraid to put in all the work it takes to be great. A few people ‘ripped’ me on here recently for suggesting that he could have 300-400 yards this season if things went right. Hopefully after these reports people start seeing what me and a few others have seen in Shipley. I guess the only thing that matters is if we see it in the Games though.
Shipley is exactly the type of receiver that Carson has been missing since TJ. Carson needs a Receiver who can control the middle on 3rd down and keep the chains moving. Shipley will continue to improve. I said it on draft day and will continue to say it, Shipley was the better pick for us then Gilyard was.
Oh and I remember discussing this with you SoonerfanTU. If I remember correct there were a few of us that were delighted with the pick and most of the Bengals fans disappointed they took a Receiver not named Gilyard. Those fans will soon realize that Shipley is what this team needs on so many levels.
Keep 7, go one light at QB...
and keep Matt Jones to be the emergency third QB. My 7 are:
Ocho
Bryant
Shipley
Caldwell
Jones
Cosby
Briscoe
They can’t afford to lose any of those last three guys. I suppose MJ is the most expendable, but he has solid hands and is a big target. It’s SImpson’s third offseason and he can’t get past being a #5 WR. He’s done.
by Anthony Cosenza on Jun 18, 2010 12:55 PM EDT reply actions
We've already discussed why Jones shouldn't be the emergency 3rd QB.
The emergency 3rd QB isn’t a part of the 45 man roster and can’t play unless the first 2 QB’s get injured. If you put Matt Jones in that spot, you don’t have him as a WR.
Also, why exactly can’t they afford to lose Cosby?
RE:
You keep Jones as a WR on the roster and keep two QBs. If Carson or JTO go down, he can be the backup then. If Carson does go down, so does the season, so it wouldn’t really mattered if they only kept two QB’s.
As for Cosby, did you pay attention to special teams last year at all? The guy was on the All-Rookie Team as a PR and single-handedly sprung the Bengals’ only Kickoff return TD last year with 4 huge blocks. Beyond that, it seems that he can play the slot in a pinch as well. I think I’ll take a good kid with excellent speed, hands and return skills over a tall WR who’s mostly underacheived in his NFL Career.
by Anthony Cosenza on Jun 18, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, but you still need to designate a 3rd QB every game. Who do we designate if Palmer/O’Sullivan are healthy? I still don’t think this plan makes any sense, as we’d have the same number of active players on game day. Replacing Jordan at 3rd QB just gives us a free slot on the inactive roster.
I’m with you on Cosby, though. Dude is a special teams monster.
No, you could put Briscoe there or
someone you want to keep that you think might get grabbed off the PS. He would be listed as your emergency QB but wouldn’t play. It’ll be like he’s on the inactive roster but dressed.
Ok, but now Matt Jones is completely irrelevant to this plan. You’re suggesting we just abuse the 3rd QB mechanism. Which I’m not really against, but the league probably is.
What? Teams do this all the time!
Carry 2 QBs. Stoolers have done this and Patriots have also + other teams. Just to keep players from being picked up off the PS. A lot of teams do this once in a while when they have that dual threat WR or RB than can play QB.
and No
Matt Jones is used in your emergency situation as the unofficial 3rd QB. He’s you WR on the 45.
God, I have to explain this again? I went through this once already about 2 weeks ago.
Let's not go there again
but suffice it to say that we only need two QBs and that Matt Jones could fill in for a quarter or two if JT went down. The next week we could pick up a FA.
This is our year!
Yea the only way it makes since to use the 'Emergency QB' position...
on anyone but the 3rd QB is if you put a player such as Briscoe there. This protects him from another club signing him. Where as if you try to put him on the PS teams will be lining up to sign him. Then Jones makes the roster as a Receiver and if needed he could finish a game at 3rd QB. He would have practice as a Wildcat QB in this plan also. WHYUS!! and I have already had an extended conversation on this a few weeks back and this would be allowed and would be the only way that would make sense for Jones to be the 3rd QB.
Essentially you are protecting another young player (Briscoe) while he develops without giving him an actual roster spot.
If Carson does go down then the next week you go out and pick up a FA QB
and then you still have two QBs + Matt Jones…
Agreed....
You could sign another QB or two if both of them go down as you say. At this point your in a tough situation anyway, especially if Carson is out more than a game or two. Again other teams do this and it would be completely within the rules. Everyone always complains that the Bengals aren’t creative enough. Well this would be a pretty creative way to keep 7 receivers while only using 6 roster spots.
After our convo WHYUS!! I agree in this situation it definitely makes sense. I’m with you on this one. But only if you are keeping a young player such as Briscoe who may otherwise be cut or wouldn’t have a chance to clear waivers.
Cosby
He’s great on special teams, but I’m not convinced he can make the team based on that alone. We’ve got Adam Jones and Shipley who can return punts as well, and Shipley is a better receiver. He wouldn’t give us much out of the slot because Caldwell and Shipley would both be ahead of him on the depth chart. So basically he has a combination of skills that are being filled as well or better than other players.
This is our year!
Cosby
Could be kept as 7th WR, 10th DB, PR and special teams maven. we could PS Nelson and Miles for when one of our safeties goes down. We have quality depth at Safety in WIlliams, Ndukwe, Wilson and Crocker. While there may be coverage issues, they can all play, and there is no real need to have a 5th safety active. Cosby will do whatever is asked on teams, returning, blocking and covering and is an asset. That said I won’t lose a minute of sleep if he is cut. He is a hard worker and solid performer, but he doesn’t give us anything that others on the roster can’t.
you know they not gonna release jordan
and he is not that good to rely on if palmer goes down, neither is jt. but they probably haft to go looking for a suitable back up, Chris Sims is out their. hell would do you think about jeff garcia??
by Makin Edwards on Jun 19, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate to see you go Quan but...
Ocho
Bryant
Caldwell
Shipley
Jones
Simpson
Here’s my reasoning… There is no way Caldwell gets traded or cut this year. First, he has almost no trade value (if Santonio Holmes went for a 5th rounder, what do you think Caldwell would go for???), second, teams just don’t cut third year players who showed tremendous improvement in their second year.
Jones and Simpson make the team because they have the ability to replace Ocho and Bryant in an injury situation. I’m not saying they’re as good as Ocho and Bryant, but they each possess the physical ability and talent.
As for Dez Briscoe… I just don’t see him making the team (outside of the practice squad). I mean, he was a nice late round sleeper pickup, but being hurt already this spring will set him back bigtime. Plus, I keep hearing that “teams will jump all over him if he hits the waiver wire…” I just don’t see that happening. Teams already had the chance to “jump all over him in the draft” and they passed up to the tune of 6 rounds worth…
Cosby is prolly my favorite Bengal Receiver, and but I agree with Carsonorbust, I just don’t think he’ll make the team as a punt returner alone. But I hope he gets a chance somewhere else.
+1
we can PUP Briscoe that way he is available (after week 6) in case of injury and he provides insurance next season if Jones moves on. I too love Cosby, I think he had as much to do with us winning at Pittsburgh, but when Caldwell got injured in the play-off game, Cosby was not able to contribute to the passing game. Cosby had a great year, but we needed more, and I think that SHipley was brought in to fill the same role better.
I don't want to lose Briscoe...
We need to do something to keep him because he won’t pass through waivers. I prefer the 3rd QB option but wouldn’t be against this either.
Here is an idea. I am not sure it is a good one but just for grins
How about offering Cosby to Dallas in some kind of deal to get Kitna back as our backup. Everyone can use an extra return guy and we already have a couple others in Pacman and Shipley. Just a thought outside the box. Any way you look at it we are going to be cutting a WR or two who someone else will pick up. Kitnas old but he gets along with Carson and he is probably one of the better backups in the league. He can come in and clean up in the 4th when we are up by a couple of TDs, not lose the game, stay sharp and protect Carson a bit.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
+1
I would LOVE to have Kitna back in stripes !! Great idea now just do you have Mike’s and Katie’s number I will call them and tell them this masterful plan !
by JamesShively on Jun 18, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I just don't see Dallas letting Kitna go
He is extremely valuable as a back-up, a position that has plagued Dallas as bad as us. The problem is that there are only 14 or so starting quality QB’s in the league and even less quality back-ups, let alone those who are willing to play for a team with no chance to start.
Jon Kitna, The "Original Savior".
Nuff said.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
by HOFArmchairQB on Jun 19, 2010 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Good Back Up needed
Yea we are gonna need a somewhat decent back up, Chris Sims is still out there. What do you guys think about bringingin Jamarcus Russel as a project??
by Makin Edwards on Jun 19, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
All they can do is say no - right?
We really need to do something.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
Agreed....
I would love to have Kitna back. He seems to be a perfect match to Palmer. I would love to see him play a few more years here or whatever he has left in the tank and then become an Assistant QB coach. Perfect for that.
First I think its highly unlikely we keep 7. If we keep an ‘extra’ offensive person its much more likely and necessary that we run heavy at RB than WR.
Obviously chad and antonio make it. Shipley and caldwell are relatively certain as well. I know that a lot of folks are down on Caldwell but facts are facts-last year he was our second most reliable receiver and established he can play in the pros, something that shipley briscoe simpson and cosby can’t say. You don’t cut him based on ‘rookie potential’.
This leaves simpson jones briscoe and cosby fighting over two spots and one of these guys will most likely be inactive on a weekly basis.
My bet is that those last two spots go to the youngsters with the most long term promise- briscoe and simpson- with briscoe being inactive most weeks
So why no MJ? Because he isn’t needed and he simply has less long term upside. We have two deep threats in chad and antonio and hopefully simpson can also play that role. Sure he is ‘big’ but so is jermaine gersham and chase. Again he brings nothing we don’t already have.
We no cosby? Between scott shipley jones and caldwell we are 4 deep on return men with guys who can contribute in other ways. Sorry quan.
Of course if briscoe is hurt I could see quan or jones sneaking on the roster. More likely quan.
by goffchile on Jun 18, 2010 5:38 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Not sure I agree and here is why....
We would be much more likely to be able to PS a RB that we have then any of our Receivers. Those that are available to be on the PS would most likely not clear waivers where as Cedric Peerman most likely has a better shot. I think Peerman is a better player then some realize. Plus its much easier to find a FA RB in the middle of the season then a Receiver. Also I think its easier for a RB to come in and contribute then a receiver. They wouldn’t have to worry about getting the timing down with the QB, etc….
I don’t think we keep 7 receivers on the active roster though either. I think we should consider putting one of the receivers in the 3rd QB spot such as Briscoe. Jones makes the team because he can be a deep threat and if needed take snaps as the 3rd QB. Plus he could be very very valuable as a Wildcat QB. That allows us to get creative with the 3rd QB Roster spot that we could use to protect a player like Briscoe from being snagged by another team. Shout out to WHYUS!! it was his idea and it continues to grow on me after our convo in which it took a while to understand what he was meaning.
Thanks for the recognition,
I think all elite teams have creativity and this is just the creativity that can push us into that status. Along with the Z-fense that Zimmer (not Zimmerman like some refer him as) has put together, with his own creativity, the sky is the limit. Doing something like this now will help us out in the future with injury and the loss of FAs.That is what you need to stay elite. Year to year things change, but this year you have to keep that talent. You can also get Kitna or somebody like Sage Rosenfels from the Vikes for the price of JT and Jordan put together.
BTW, another point, how many times does both QBs go down in a game? Not very often.. and highly doubtful it’ll happen.
Good Wide Receiver depth
Yea alll the receivers we have right now has pretty good potential, Cosby is versitile so he can actually do punt and kick returns, so can shipley, and caldwell even though he bit us in the ass a few times. Its gonna be crazy to see who they keep but we gott 5 preseason games so that more than enough time to see what everybody brings to the plate. I real curious about Dez Briscoe I really think he is gonna be a superstar you can teach skill sets he has
Final Roster
What will really end up happening is as follows
1.Chad
2.Bryant
3.Shipley
4.Caldwell
5.Jones
6.Simpson
7.Briscoe
We will end up keeping seven because of our situation
Chad and Bryant are locks. Shipley too considering he was our 3rd round choice. Caldwell improves year by year and again will prove to be a valuable option as well as know the offense and has a good rapport with Palmer. Jones here is actually my favorite player and could be our number 2 or 3 receiver by week 8. Palmer really likes him and he, like Bryant has never had a stud QB and with his combination of speed, size, and hands going against 3rd and 4th defensive backs should prove extremely valuable. Simpson makes the team because we’ve already invested so much time and money into him and I hear he’s been making great strides to get on the field. Briscoe is the biggest question mark here. He’s raw but gunna be hard to put on the practice squad like many of you know because he’ll get snatched up. He has a great deal of potential so he makes it to. It will be very unusual and hard on the roster to keep 7 but i think we have to. Worst case we end up trading one of these guys during the season if we need an emergency backup.
What ya’ll think
+1
Good final roster! That number of receivers takes the pressure off of the running game to save us. It will enable us to keep Benson, Scott, and Leonard fresh because we will go to the passing game more often. Multiple sets with those receivers, combined with Gresham/Coffman TE sets, spells horror for opposing defenses. The running game becomes a murderous clock killer and a dagger thru the heart of the enemy. The possibilities are endless with what this Offense will be able to do. It is easy to see us ranked #1 in both Offense and Defense.
Roster
1. Chad OchoCinco (Cincy’s long-time No.1 WR)
2. Antonio Bryant (New No.2 WR)
3. Jordan Shipley (The “Slot Receiver of the Future” for the Cincy, great potential)
4. Andre Caldwell (Fast, reliable receiver, young, has NFL experience and production, needs to improve ball security, good overall as depth WR)
5. Quan Cosby (Strong special teams player not just punt returner, slot WR in a pinch, age works against him… however, not all those years are “football wear”)
6. Jerome Simpson (Looking good this offseason, a “Marvin pick” buys him more time)
PS. Dez Briscoe (One of the few players eligible for Practice Squad, went 6 rounds prior to being selected in draft, good potential but not NFL ready yet, perfect for PS)
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