Question About Backup Quarterback Problem: What About Tony Pike
by Josh Kirkendall on Aug 12, 2010 10:23 AM EDT
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PrintIf you combined J.T. O'Sullivan and Jordan Palmer's performances from last Sunday, it would look something like this.
| COMP | ATT | CMP % | YARDS | TDs | INTs | Rating |
| 14 | 31 | 45.2% | 135 | 1 | 3 | 29.0 |
Excluding his legendary 1.7 passer rating performance on January 3 against the Jets last season, Palmer has never recorded anything lower than a well earned 32.3 rating during the team's 10-7 loss to the Baltimore Ravens on September 7, 2008. Ryan Fitzpatrick's lowest passer rating as a starting quarterback with the Bengals? Against the Browns on September 28, the now Bills quarterback recorded a 44.5 passer rating. Jon Kitna recorded a 47.6 passer rating during a 34-7 loss to the Indianapolis Colts on October 13, 2002.
You have to go back to the days of Akili Smith to find a quarterback rating so low. During a 12-3 win against the Cleveland Browns on October 29, 2000, Smith recorded a 27.9 passer rating, recording 84 yards passing, completing seven of 20 passes, one of which went for an interception.
However, it does seem a rather unfair comparison, doesn't it? I wrote all of that for fun and for informational reasons. For one, starting quarterbacks during the regular season benefit from a lot of work during the week, or during the season. O'Sullivan and Jordan didn't receive that heading into the Hall of Fame game.
Marvin Lewis said of his backup quarterbacks:
“I don’t think either of them played as well as we need them to play. ‘Nuff said,” Lewis said.
In response, Dayton Daily News' Carlos Holmes wonders: What about Tony Pike?
A player who could be of some interest is former Cincinnati Bearcats quarterback Tony Pike, who is in jeopardy of being released by the Carolina Panthers. He’s buried on the team’s depth chart behind starter Matt Moore, rookie second round pick Jimmy Clausen and Hunter Cantwell. Pike has taken limited snaps in training camp and his days with the Panthers are likely numbered. The quarterback was selected by Carolina in the sixth round of this year’s draft.
The Bengals showed some interest in the Cincinnati product during the draft process. It wouldn’t be at all surprising if the team rekindled its interest should Pike become available. He would give the Bengals a young quarterback to groom behind Palmer.
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the hate will probably flow after this but..
tony pike is a career backup. nothing you can groom for the future. he has an even harder time than our boy carson evading the pass rush and his arm is high school weak. he can throw all the fancy routes and he can read defenses like a book but he has no deep ball and would crumble when faced with an nfl pass rush.
by Cry on Aug 12, 2010 10:43 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
based off what?
nothing you said describing him holds much validity w/out facts or stats. Opinions are just that, and everyone has one but you did watch what he did in the Bearcats offense last year right? would have been a heismann hopefull if he didnt get hurt….
it comes down to mind over matter....if you don't mind, it won't matter
there is a reason he slipped to the sixth round and now sits below an unsigned fa on the depth chart. go watch his game tape, his long ball floats and his deep ball isn’t really there. he got his wins because his timing is amazing and he had great patience in the pocket. but he has below average arm strength and lacks the instinct required of an nfl qb. as you said it’s just opinion without stats but i’m using my phone and it’s not exactly easy to round those up for you. in any case i love the kid i just know he isn’t a starter.
by Cry on Aug 12, 2010 11:05 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Dude you're a Homer
Based off the fact that Pike is slow, has limited athletic ability, got passed on the depth chart by a guy none of us have ever heard of….and what else?
Cry isn’t trying to be a jerk he’s just telling the truth as it most likely is. It’s indisputable that Pike is a statute and has poor, and I mean POOR footwork and a slow release. Arm strength is also a question.
Spread offense success is college in NO WAY translates to success in the NFL. Not only does running the spread not translate, but what you are doing – and tons of other fans of college football always do – is pretending that just because a guy was good in college means he’ll likely be good in the NFL.
College football and the NFL are not even comparable in terms of talent and athletic ability. You reference “Heisman Hopeful.” SO WHAT?!? …because Pike was a “Heisman hopeful” he’s probably going to be a decent NFL player? College fans do that all the time and it’s completely laughable.
Why don’t you look at the Heisman list and tell me how well all the Heisman winners have fared in their NFL tenures. Better yet, tell me how the guys that came close to winning are doing.
Don’t be such a homer. I like Pike too, by the way…and contrary to what you probably think, I’d like to see him do well and maybe even end up here. But his chances at success are slim. It’s not to say he won’t be successful…but it’s very slim.
by JohnCockToastin on Aug 12, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Tru Who Dey
By the way., slow day for me as you are about to find out…but…I SOOOOO remember how much of a need and desire you have for using stats as your main point in debates so I took the liberty of looking up and researching how Heisman trophy winners have fared during their NFL careers. I only used players from 1970 thru 2006 with the idea being that 1970 is sort of considered the “Modern Era” of Pro Football (and also was the year of the merger) while it is probably unfair to grade ’07, ’08 and ’09 guys.
I used three categories in determining a Heisman winner’s success in the NFL. He was either a dud, he was a decent to respectable player, or he was as much of a stud in the NFL as he was in college.
Without sharing the entire list with you (I have it and will post it if you want me to), here’s the numbers and percentages:
TOTAL PLAYERS GRADED: 37
DUDS: 17 (46%)
GOOD/DECENT: 9 (24%)
STUDS: 11 (30%)
Interesting notes…
The 70’s had mostly good to great NFL players who were heisman winners (Plunkett, Dorsett, Earl Campbell, Billy Sims and Charles White)
Hey, Jason…ever heard of any of these guys? ;-)
In the 80’s virtually every heisman winner was good to great in the NFL. Only one wasn’t (Andre Ware (’89).
Then in the 90’s it all went down hill. And hard. 7 of the 10 Heisman winners in the 90’s were pukes in the NFL. Only three weren’t…but they WERE all studs (Eddie George, Ricky Williams and C. Woodson).
the 2000’s haven’t fared any better. Of the 7 winners from ’00 to ’06, five have been turds in the NFL with really only Carson and Reggie Bush amounting to anything.
So there you have it, TruWhoDey…there’s your stats. I win. I Rule. Hooray for me. Life is wonderful.
by JohnCockToastin on Aug 12, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
What is wrong with bringing in a career back-up
Kitna could be considered a career back-up and we would love to have him back. Pike could be that kind of QB.
TO understand the potential Pike release, and what it says about his talent, we must look at the Panther thought process in drafting Pike. Carolina drafted Jimmy Clausen to be their future. They had Matt Moore to be the present. So why did they draft Pike, the 11th of only 15 QBs taken in the draft. Because he was the best available on their board? While that is the NFL mantra, it is not always applicable no matter what people think. You can not take the best available player if you do not expect him to contribute. This is overlooked beacuse it only really applies to 2 positions in the NFL. FB and RB. So why draft Pike? I think as insurance for Clausen. As I said Moore was the present and Clausen the future, but potentially not the immediate future. Pike was drafted as a bridge. Now Carolina does not need that bridge, probably because they feel Clausen will be ready when needed. What does that say about PIke? That Pike has a low ceiling in ability, but that he may have been more ready to play, at draft time than Clausen.
Now we see that JP may pass JTO and if so JTO is expendable. But JP has talent, but no experience. He may, down the road, turn that into a bigger pay check and chance to start as others in the league have such as Matt Hasselbeck, Brett Farve, Jake Delhomme. If so why not bring in a number 2 guy who does not expect to compete for the starting job, but can get the team through a rough patch if Carson gets injured? Especially a team that is run focused with a good defense.
the hate will probably flow after this but..
tony pike is a career backup. nothing you can groom for the future. he has an even harder time than our boy carson evading the pass rush and his arm is high school weak. he can throw all the fancy routes and he can read defenses like a book but he has no deep ball and would crumble when faced with an nfl pass rush.
by Cry on Aug 12, 2010 10:43 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
what would you claim as our other backups’ strenghts are. It sounds to me that you did list at least some positives w Pike. Even high praise for some attributes. Pike is not a savior but shit man we know what we got. Its worth a look.
by quickslant on Aug 12, 2010 4:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I wouldn't mind that move
Cut O’Sullivan to bring in Pike. It would be a lateral move at worst.
PLEASE
pick up this kid. he is as humble as they come and can clearly toss the pigskin. He would be a perfect young backup to bring in now on the cheap and groom. If nothign else, our passing game wouldn’t die with him throwing the ball when forced
it comes down to mind over matter....if you don't mind, it won't matter
I'm not that big on Pike.
I really loved watching him play at UC. Him running a Brian Kelly offense with Mardy Gilyard was a thing of beauty. But one thing will always stick out in my mind when I think of Pike – his attitude in those two BCS bowl game losses.
It wasn’t as pronounced in 2008, but in the Sugar Bowl last year when it started to become apparent they were overmatched, he completely shut down. He stopped caring. They even showed shots of Gilyard on the sidelines yelling right in his face trying to get him pumped up again and he just shrugged him off. I think he’s great in a system when things are going well, but if the system doesn’t fit him (ours doesn’t) or things occasionally go badly (Bengals football, anybody?) I don’t have faith in him coming through.
That being said, he’s got a hell of an arm and he’s better than Jordan. If we could get him as a #3 he might eventually make a decent #2 or be legitimate trade bait.
Predictable Cincy Jungle
Is the answer to a Bengal problem ever a UC guy or an ex-Bengal?
“Tony Pike!”
“Let’s draft Gilyard in the first round!”
“Bring back Willie Anderson!”
Ha!
I’m totally with you. …as referened above. I think we could all stand to take our “Homer” glasses off from time to time and look at things thru a different lense.
by JohnCockToastin on Aug 12, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
RE:
Now, now. If you read the post, or any of the posts that you cited, we’re not the ones that bring it up. In this instance, it’s Holmes and therefore, I throw it up to see if there’s conversion to be had. And in your case, there isn’t.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Josh Kirkendall on Aug 12, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Ehh...
No offense, I think you dictated the “Homer” attitude with this post. While you might say, " throw it up to see if there’s conversion to be had", your affinity for UC and its players has been noted before on this site.
But then again, I’m not a “homer” and I do like the Bengals and wouldn’t mind if they brought in Tony for some QB competition/grooming.
by sgiridharan1982 on Aug 12, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
RE: No offense taken... but
…you’re saying that if I talk about the Bearcats, or the Buckeyes, that no matter the issue, I’ll dictate a homer post because I’ve done it in the past? Truth be told, I said nothing about UC, nor Pike. I just put out there what Holmes said. But I guess you could say that I haven’t spoken of other quarterback. Well, one of our readers took up the issue of other quarterbacks available on his own here. That’s why I have a great community because others pitch in when there’s something that needs to be talked about that I’m missing on.
So I’m not actually sure where this is coming from. Is Gilyard, before the draft, the last time I dictated a homer specific post? I think that was brought up because 1) the Bengals were looking at a WR and 2) the Bengals were actually interested.
I’m genuinely curious though, because if I’m being too much of a homer and that’s a problem, then I’ll address it. Please email me so we can talk in private; that includes anyone else that thinks I need to make changes. I don’t know what I’m doing wrong until you guys tell me.
But, no, I won’t deny that I like talking about my favorite teams. Buckeyes are actually my favorite college team, not the Bearcats. But I’m definitely a homer. I love my teams and I love talking about them.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Josh Kirkendall on Aug 12, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
At the end of the day, you’re responsible for the topics you address or choose not to address, whether it was Carlos Holmes or any other writer who sparked the discussion. However, my comment was meant as a joke and a general observation of the page as a whole, rather than a personal slam. Tons of people are guilty and I find it hilarious.
“We need this guy because I know him and I like him.”
I don't think this is a homer post at all
… Its pretty legitimate post. We’ve been complaining about the Back Up QB play for the Bengals… and there just happens to be a solid QB Prospect that we might have a chance to grab. Plus the fact that he is a former Bearcat is a fact that is of special interest to the readers of Cincy Jungle. IMO, this is excellent reporting. You go Josh!
Sticking up for Josh
First of all…no one should frequent this site if they don’t like the information that’s given, no matter how it’s portrayed.
We all come here because we like the site.
On sgiridharan’s point, I’d stick up for Josh #1 because he’s not even a “UC Guy” (at least I don’t think he is). But #2, there’s nothing wrong with even throwing out a “Homer” article if that’s what he or anyone else wants to do.
My point is sort of to sgiridharan’s in that I wish we all would be less homerish…BUT…everyone’s still entitled to their own opinion and if they want to be a Homer, go for it. Morover, forum’s like this are haven’s for us all to rant and rave about those opinions (Are they not?) So if everyone wants to act like a Homer, have at it. The rest of us though will just continue to roll our eyes.
by JohnCockToastin on Aug 12, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll just say this
I think getting Pike and getting rid of mini-me Palmer would be more of a lateral move. I wouldn’t say it was strictly a homer move, more of a move for a known product. Because frankly, can anyone name another FA QB or FA to be that would be a good backup? Here is my homer note though: Word has it Troy Smith might become available. I’ll say this much for my argument for signing him as a backup if he becomes available; the Ravens were ready to give him the keys to the offense two seasons ago before he got sick and Flacco stepped in. I think that makes him more ideal than J Palmer or Pike.
as i noted elsewhere, with all the moves they’ve made in denver, kyle orton will likely be available soon.
i'm going to go america all over your ass!
by Raging Clue on Aug 12, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I would guess
That Quinn would be available before Orton would. Orton was the starter last year and did alright with the Broncos. He and Tebow have been getting the majority of the snaps, from what I’ve heard. I think Quinn would be a good backup here. He’ll never be a good starter, but I’d feel much more comfotable with Brady Quinn playing a couple of games if he had to, than if JTO Speedwagon had to start.
by Anthony Cosenza on Aug 12, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
hell, if they get rid of quinn i’d take him too. either way, let’s keep an eye on that broncos qb situation.
i'm going to go america all over your ass!
by Raging Clue on Aug 12, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
yuck...
No thank you. Quinn was awful as a Brown. Orton has one more year on his contract (I think) and is definitely their starter this year… and of course Tebow is never getting cut.
what qb has been good as a brown lately? brady quinn has the tools to be successful in the nfl; his browns career wasn’t helped by the equivocation of the coaching staff.
i'm going to go america all over your ass!
by Raging Clue on Aug 12, 2010 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
The Ravens released John Beck.
That was the reason everyone was giving for why they thought Troy Smith would be leaving B-more. They shopped him before the draft as a trade but didn’t get any takers and at this point they’re not going to release him outright. So if we’re going to TRADE for a backup QB (which is a really good idea given our depth in a lot of places) I’d hope we could do better than Smith. Orton’s a good option if Denver starts shopping him.
troy got almost as many snaps as joe in camp before they brought bulger in. the window for a troy trade was right after they signed bulger, and had a qb logjam. then they traded newly demoted beck(i think that was his name) to washington for a corner. i’d have gladly given up trent or sears for troy smith.
by Cry on Aug 12, 2010 1:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
AGREED....
troy smith would be an upgrade, as well as provide some youth to the back up position. Id take my chances on pike as a #3 over j palmer.
As long as we are being homers....
….Andre Woodson!
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
Agreed
I’d love to see Andre on our sideline.
by wildcatfaninexile on Aug 12, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Why Not!!??
Heck bring the kid in and see what he can do. Hell, after the performance of J.T. and Lil Palmer, we all know our season is doomed if Carson goes down!! Lately the Front Office has surprised us with smart moves such as drafting Rey & bringing in TO for example, so I think they will do something as far as a bringing in another QB. I think they both need to be cut and quick, Lil Palmer is only here because of his brother, and I have know idea why he is even here.
Everyday is a WHO DEY!
would love the signing
and tossing jt o’mulligan to the curb wouldn’t feel bad either.
"wherever Brad St. Louis is and Shayne Graham is about to be." -R.F. Mehl
Pike will never happen
He would be a lateral move, talent wise. However he would be a huge step backwords because of his lack of playbook and system knowledge. No OTA’s, no Mini Camp, and no Training Camp? He would have to be Farve-esk to pull that off…and he ain’t.
maybe physical skills aren't elite
but I don’t know if keeping JTO, who’s been here for years and looked like he’d never held a football, is really a wash compared to signing Pike.
by Bengals NFL Champs on Aug 12, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
meh
It’s not like JTO and Jordan Palmer were unknowns to the Bengals staff this offseason. If they passed on Pike in favor of the guys we’ve got, there’s probably a reason.
all right, i’m going to be the biggest homer of all . . . jared lorenzen.
imagine having the hefty lefty in stripes; he has the greatest playaction since boomer, mostly because he hides the ball in his belly.
i'm going to go america all over your ass!
deja vu
that’s funny, my buddy just said the same nonsence. I told him it sounds like something that Mike Brown would do. Considering they could pay him with the Krispy Kremes they confiscated from Andre Smith.
by steve whodey on Aug 13, 2010 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
i’ve been a fan of the battleship for a long time; he solidified it the one time he flicked the ball behind his head and hit a guy in the numbers on an out route.
i'm going to go america all over your ass!
by Raging Clue on Aug 13, 2010 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I get it...but
that sandlot stuff is fun but I want a serious back up. A legit NFL QB winding down his career. Those guys are more expensive because they have been in the league longer. The min salary is based on years of experience so Mikey won’t go after one of them.
I’m thinking of a Kurt Warner type that could step in if Liener gets hurt or sucks. Not Kurt, obviously, he’s retired. I just mean a legit backup like he was for that particular bust.
by steve whodey on Aug 13, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I like the idea of it IF he does get tossed from Carolina. If he could stay on our practice squad for a year and learn the system he could be a #2 next year. Kitna has the same skill set that Cry mentioned earlier and a few has been clamoring for his release and return. In the end all you need a backup to do is come in and not make many mistakes, if he can spot the ball well and read defenses like people say he can then why not let him be a backup. Truth is that would never happen during this season and they likely need a veteran to step in this year.
I like a veteran as a backup QB.
Someone to help Palmer read defenses and give him advice when he comes to the sidelines.
An example of the type of backup I like is Mark Brunell; a former starter whose career is winding down.
"Before I write I let my mind go blind and let the Lord do His thing. " -Tupac Shakur
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it looks like work." -Thomas Edison
I know we can't get Brunell himself but that's an example.
"Before I write I let my mind go blind and let the Lord do His thing. " -Tupac Shakur
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it looks like work." -Thomas Edison
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