During First Team Snap With Carson Palmer: Offensive Line Struggled But Had Solid Spots
by Josh Kirkendall on Aug 9, 2010 9:53 AM EDT
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There might be good reason to be concerned about the Cincinnati Bengals offensive line performance against the Dallas Cowboys. I'm one the subscribes to the school that it's way too early to judge and that the Bengals looked like they had only practiced for a week before playing in this game. But how did the offensive line do? More specifically, how did the offensive line perform while the first team unit was on the field?
It wasn't all that bad. It really wasn't. For instance the one time that Palmer was sacked, the quarterback had over four seconds to get rid of the football. Once that fifth second ticked, the Bengals quarterback had his "oh crap I've been in the pocket forever so I must run away" instinct go off. Once he moved up in the pocket and rolled out right, Stephen Bowen, a defensive tackle, had completed an end-around stunt from his defensive tackle spot and collided with Palmer just as he rolled out. The coverage sack was HARDLY the fault of the offensive line, unless we're giving them the unbelievable expectation that they should block their guys for at least eight seconds.
Then again, the offensive line can take credit for a nasty three-man hit on Palmer. On 3rd-and-14 during the Bengals first possession of the game, Palmer lined up in shotgun with Terrell Owens and Jermaine Gresham on the left and Jordan Shipley and Chad Ochocinco on the right. This play was doomed from the beginning. Defensive tackle Stephen Bowen took an inside step against Andrew Whitworth. Clearly beaten, there really was no hope for Whitworth, who was likely hoping that Palmer would release the football quickly. He barely did, but the pressure from Bowen forced a bad throw to Owens. Bengals punt. Truth is, Palmer was badly sandwiched. Along with Bowen, Jay Ratliff took an outside stunt, going from defensive tackle position, looping around the defensive end. He would go untouched until nailing Palmer's chest cavity. Anthony Spencer pushed Dennis Roland into Palmer, which concluded a three-man quarterback hit by the Dallas Cowboys. Both tackles struggled protecting Palmer, who had to be pealed off the turf.
Kyle Cook was average, at best. But one block he struggled against, could have led to a large Cedric Benson run during the Bengals first possession. After a penalty that negated a five-yard Owens' reception, the Bengals lined up first-and-15 at their own 39-yard line. In duel tight end, single back formation, Benson took the handoff and ran left. Kyle Cook's man had taken an aggressive slant directly into the point of attack. The lane blocked, Benson had to stop dead in his tracks and cutback. Note: If that block is made, Benson could have had a big gain with Whitworth and Livings sealing the inside and Reggie Kelly blocking DeMarcus Ware outside for a sizeable lane. Benson cut inside as his only means for a positive gain. Too many unblocked defenders in the cutback lanes prevented Benson from gaining more than a yard.
And when the Bengals did move the ball through the air, the passes were either three-step drops or generally quick passes. Bengals line up 2nd-and-4 at their own 37-yard line during their first offensive possession in a four wide receiver, single back formation. Palmer takes a three-step drop, with four Cowboys rushing, and quickly flings it towards the nearest sidelines with Terrell Owens running a quick out route. Pass caught. Bengals get a first down on Owens' first reception as a Bengal. On the first play of the Bengals second possession, Cincinnati lined up in I-formation with Gresham at tight end. After a three-step drop, Palmer unleashed a quick pass to Owens, who ran to the first down marker and turned around, picking up 11 yards and the first down. On second-and-7 at their own 24-yard line, Bengals lined up in off-set I, strong side to the right. Palmer takes a three-step drop, looks for Chad Ochocinco running a quick slant from the left. Linebacker Leon Williams knocked the pass down at the line of scrimmage.
Save for the save where the offensive line gave Palmer good protection, they did allow Palmer to complete another five-step drop with relatively decent protection. On 2nd-and-14 at their own 40-yard line, Palmer took a snap with duel tight ends, Gresham motioning into the slot on the right. After a five-step drop, Palmer looked right and threw it to Owens, who ran a ten-yard up and out route. After slipping on his break, Owens wasn't able to recover quickly enough to grab the pass.
For the most part, the Bengals offensive line with Carson Palmer wasn't bad. On the first offensive play of the game, Palmer handed the football to Cedric Benson, running it behind Andrew Whitworth and Nate Livings; both of whom completely collapsed that side of the line allowing Benson to pick up six yards. But generally speaking, the performance wasn't good either. It was as if the offensive line hadn't practice for much more than a week. And clearly, it shows, the Bengals hadn't had much full contact during that week of practice, while guys like Whitworth struggled on a pass rush and Cook couldn't hold up a defensive lineman from blocking the point of attack.
It's clear that there's work to be done. And with the regular season being over a month away, at least they have the time to get it done.
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B. Leonard Update?
While I agree with much of the above, they clearly have work to do if we’re going to become an elite offensive unit (a. smith anyone?).
On a different note, any further updates on Brian Leonard’s condition? He’s a vastly underrated part of our team. If he’s seriously injured, it’s a major loss. The guy’s a gamer and first down machine.
Hmm
I have a feeling Brian Leonard tore his achilles. I hope to god that I’m wrong. Brian Leonard is a crucial part to our offense.
by sgiridharan1982 on Aug 9, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought they said they X-rayed his foot last night, that says the injury is to the foot not the ankle.
The AP report says he has a sprained left foot. And Chris Crocker hurt his ankle.
by MrMcLargeHuge on Aug 9, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
3rd and 14
All teams struggle to convert 3rd and long. That is why Marvin talks so much about the offense staying on schedule. We need to knock off the holding and False starts to keep the offense balanced. We know that the line is average at best in pass blocking, so we have to have 3rd and 5 instead of 3rd and 15 to expect to win.
Excuses
All that I have heard for the last several months are excuses and more excuses; Well this really wasn’t that bad or if we could just fix this or that. The bottom line is that the Cowboys had the same time to prepare that we did and they have rookies just like we do trying to earn a roster spot. The sad fact is; they looked awful and beat us handily.
That was sloppy, undiciplined football.
Maybe if Chad wasn’t so busy running his mouth and trying to be a reality T.V. star and go back to what made him great in the first place (living at P.B. stadium studying film, and working with his quarterback in the offseason) we wouldn’t continue to have ignorant offsides penalties that continue to put the offense in a hole. Complacency…
If the O-line can’t pass protect – then get someone in there who can.
Palmer is not a mobile quaterback. He needs time to throw.
The first team defense was not impressive, Romo had plenty of time to throw and their recievers chewed up our secondary all nite.We can not continue to leave our defense on the field 3/4 of the game.
We are not the Indianapolis Colts. We can’t take the pre-season off.
September 12
Nothing matters until that day. Anything that happens before that date is just progress.
by MrMcLargeHuge on Aug 9, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
Just posted same things in another thread. The team we put on the field last night is not even competitive. Superbowl? Really?
Everyone see T.O. smoothing his eyebrows for the camera on the sideline while his team was getting the ever-lovin’ shit kicked out of them? Chad’s gold shoes? I wanted him to take his side-show elsewhere 3 years ago, now we have T.O. OchoCinco v. 2.0 to go with him. Along with bobby “couldn’t find his ass with both hands” bratkowski. That was the “How are you going to stop us” offense? I smell a catastrophe brewing on par with the Hindenburg.
I hope they can at least move the ball a little next game so I can step back from the ledge.
by Bengals NFL Champs on Aug 9, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
This was just a big ole practice
Would you be this concerned over a scrimmage loss? From where I sat, the team was clearly just trying to work on individual issues (i.e. Carson/TO’s timing) and evaluate individual performances. From the packages to the personnel to the mindset of the coaches/players, it was not played like a real game, so we can’t really evaluate the team as a whole. They even said the refs were calling penalties that they wouldn’t normally, because they wanted to get the players in the right mindset. Dallas has had more practices, so they may have gone into the game like it was a real game, while we went in looking at the bigger picture— working on individual issues now so we can win from September to February. So while we can say MJ and Atkins played great; Adam-aka-Pacman, Shipley and Jones might have potential; and some individuals have things to work on (cough JTO), I don’t think we can really evaluate the entire team until deeper into the preseason and, most importantly, on September 12.
(Mmm, this Kool-Aid is tasty.)
LOL i'll have some o' that Kool-Aid, too I don't want to jump ship
I’m just freaked out by how slow and inept we looked. Obviously we’re not looking at the scoreboard or trying to win the game, but all those things can be said about the other team as well. They go into preseason games just like we do. Doesn’t it concern you how far apart these two teams obviously are, even though it is early? They were light years ahead of us in every phase.
by Bengals NFL Champs on Aug 9, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
they started camp
almost a week before we did, justsayin
3 yards and a pile of dust
by Hudepohl Dey on Aug 9, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I hope that's a significant part of it
if we can at least move the ball a little against denver i’ll stop holding my breath
by Bengals NFL Champs on Aug 9, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
i wouldn't put
any stock into any part of preseason. a victory is just artificial satisfaction and a loss is over-analyzed blown out of proportion depression.
just watch rookies and roster bubble guys try to make plays, otherwise it’s really not worth watching.
3 yards and a pile of dust
by Hudepohl Dey on Aug 9, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
True
And let’s not forget that the Bengals looked pretty bad during last preseason as well, and the regular season ended up just fine.
This is our year!
I love that the sky is falling.
Since when have teams put a premium on winning preseason games?
First and foremost, they really don’t like playing in the preseason games. For the most part, the teams either feed their backups to the dogs, or utilize the time verifying players properly line up in accordance with schemes/formations/adjustments.
I’m not going to provide examples because it isn’t necessary. Preseason football can only be enjoyed if you appreciate watching INDIVIDUALS compete for jobs. The scoreboard will not quantify the progression/regression of depth chart players.
Each and every year we hear the same complaining with different names. (“Why is T.O. coming out of the game?” “Why didn’t T.O. run the ball there?” “Why is T.O. not on the field with the Defense?” “Why did T.O. not get a chance to take some of the punts for Huber?”)
NFP writer suggests the same CLICK HERE
I understand that fans have a hard time finding excitement in these games—and plenty of veteran players would rather take a pass as well—but they still are a part of the NFL training camp. Personnel over schemes is the message here. They are an extension of practice—and they have value.
3 yards and a pile of dust
I was worried about 2 things I saw last night.
1. Back up QB. Neither one the Bengals have is worth the paper their contract is printed on. They both suck. Dallas has 2 backups better than either player the Bengals have. I would rather had Jeff George than these guys, is he available? I think Jason Whitlock knows.
2. Covering the TE. Crocker went down early and left Eugene Wilson to play nickel and dime safety alot. He got killed by the first, second and third team TE. Why can’t the Bengals cover a TE? I’ve been picking up the TE that plays against Cincy every week in fantasy football for years, why? It works, the TE on the other team always lights us up. Can we patch that up Zimm before the season starts?
I think other things can get fixed, like the oline, and secondary. There were also guys out that could have helped the other stuff but QB depth is dire on this team.
That is all.
Fun...dmentals!
This game should have been all about position fundamental execution.
The backup QB’s really suck.
J. Palmer to PS, cut JTO, get Troy Smith and keep M. Jones for emergency backup with dual purpose as receiver.
Bye bye Jerome. See ya Quan.
Just pre-season?
For all of those who say Ohh it’s just pre-season… It’s just a glorified practice…
You play like you practice- If you practice like garbage = you play like garbage when it counts…
Just ask Allen Iverson… BTW did he ever win a championship? Ohh… NO he didn’t
I would be worrying about studying my opponent instead of what shoes I am going to wear or how much I can pay for fines this week.
If these boys aren’t concerned about winning every time they take the field then they better be.
You could obviously see who was about buisness, and who wasn’t. It is sad to say, but it was our younger players that shined instead of our veterans.
This stuff with all of these penalties is B.S.
I’m like Mike Singletary… I WAN’T WINNERS!!!
So...
You want them to spend their time studying the Cowboys, who they play once in a game that means nothing, rather than preparing for the Patriots, who we play when it counts?
And ask the Colts
Who never care if they win a single preseason game.
GUYS!!!!!!
NO ONE IS SAYING WE NEEDED TO WIN THIS PRESEASON GAME. Those of us expressing serious concern are doing so because the 1st string LOOKED LIKE A BAD HIGH SCHOOL TEAM IN COMPARISON TO THE OPPONENT.
by Bengals NFL Champs on Aug 9, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
It's the same thing
Our 1st string offense looked bad because they were forcing the ball to TO to help him get in sync. If I could figure it out on my couch, I’m pretty sure the Cowboys could figure it out on the field and respond.
Sorry but what does that even mean -- "in sync?"
Are these guy NFL pro’s? How long have palmer and TO been in the league? How many hours have they already spent together? How many balls does palmer need to throw at him to get an idea of how he comes out of his breaks? Aren’t they practicing against two of the best corners in the league? I refuse to believe the whole plan on offense was to come out and force all the passes to TO to get “in sync”. If’ that’s the case, then Bobby B is an even bigger village idiot window-licker than I thought. Which seems beyond comprehension…
by Bengals NFL Champs on Aug 10, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
The "this proves it's preseason" play
was Jordan Palmer’s play when he spiked the ball (or took a knee, I wasn’t watching) on second and short. Result: third down.
Even if they were offside he needs a play to run.
Even the Hall of Famers Could Care Less About Winning Preseason Games
Dday77 – chill out man. Preseason is NOT about who wins on the scoreboard. Nothing, nada, zip, zilch. It’s about getting the veterans in synch and the rookies game experience. They’ve only been in camp for a week. The Cowboys opened camp 9 days ahead of the Bengals. The coaches got a great look at some of the rookies and new players which is the point of the game.
We are all obviously experts on what it takes to be champions here in Cincinnati aren't we? Considering all of the Lombardi trophies we have hoisted.
I wonder what things would be like today if during WWII Patton just said “It’s just training” we’ll get it right when the real bullets start flying?
Everyone knows that it was a dress rehersal. That does not mean that you don’t try to do your best.
I never said anything to the fact that we should play are starters the whole game – emeybee.
You have to learn how to prepare in order to succeed. Chad has dopped more game winning balls than he has caught. The only exception I can recall is the game tying catch in Cleveland last year. Off the top of my head I can recall at least 3 major drops that were devastating. (didn’t he have one against the Jets in the playoff loss?)
Yeah Chad, you just worry about your shoes buddy.
You've lost me
Football = War now?
As the preseason goes on, I believe they will treat it more and more like a real game. But this was an extra 5th preseason game, and one that replaced our intra-squad scrimmages. I would rather they use the time to work on specific issues with the team rather than playing it all-out, risking injury, and neglecting long-term progress for an immediate, meaningless win.
I didn’t say the players didn’t/shouldn’t do their best. I said that the packages and schemes that they ran were not chosen and organized with the goal of winning this game, but rather with the intent of developing individual players and working out specific problems. So, of course they weren’t as effective with getting yards and points, they weren’t meant to be.
Case in point, throwing to TO over and over and over. Do we really think Carson is going to force it to TO on every passing play? No. But he already has chemistry with Chad, and Ced already knows how to run, so they focused on developing the chemistry with TO in a game-like situation. Does that mean they weren’t playing their best? Of course not. But the goal wasn’t to win, it was to improve.
You keep focusing on Chad. Chad didn’t drop anything last night— he wasn’t even targeted. His only impact on the game was the penalty, and the refs said they were calling it extra tight to help the players get ready. Why you keep harping on him liking to wear flashy shoes is beyond me. He probably spends half a millisecond picking shoes for every hour he practices. With the exception of 2008 when he lost his mind, he has been one of our best (and hardest working) players. If he wants to have fun in the off season or wear pretty shoes, let him. I think he’s earned it.
All in all, we have things to work on. Of course we do— it’s AUGUST. But people are coming on here acting like it’s the end of the world because our subs didn’t beat Dallas’ subs and I think that’s a little extreme. What I saw was a team that showed blips of potential but needs to continue to practice. It’s too bad we don’t have another month before the season starts. Oh… wait… we do.
This article is overly optimistic and naive about potential of the line.. Carson clearly was hurried almost every time he stepped back to pass and it showed big time.. Even the run blocking was inferior to last years performance.. This problem isn’t going away anytime soon.. If I were you guy’s I wouldn’t get to excited about the season until this is clearly fixed and not a problem anymore.. Guys aren’t getting open because they don’t have time to run there routes without Carson having to throw the ball in there direction to avoid being sacked..
"This article is overly optimistic and naive about potential of the line"
You mean it’s the preseason? Who would have thunk that they wouldn’t be at the top of their game. SHOCKING! :)
Blogger at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Josh Kirkendall on Aug 14, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
The o-line looked really bad the first preseason game
last year too. That’s when Palmer got the high ankle sprain and was out for a couple of games.
They play base in the first game and the defense has the advantage with stunts and blitz.
Re: emeybee
Do you understand what an analogy is? Did I say football is war? No, I used an analogy to desribe a situation.
My comments are not just based on a single pre-season game. They are based on the results of the past 20 seasons.
We haven’t won a playoff game in 20 years…
I have been watching the Bengals play football for almost 30 years and I have only seen 6 winning seasons…
6 winning seasons….. in 30 years…. No reason for trepidation there…
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