Question of the Day: Should Carson Palmer Be "Under Siege" By Fans And The Media?

I’m just going to re-post what i said earlier in a fan shot, and again reiterate how sad it is that such a large percentage of our fanbase is calling for Palmer’s head (again…)

RE: ELITE? who cares if he’s considered Elite or not, I for one could not give a sh*t less. He is the only reason (ok benson too) that we made the playoffs last year. He is and will be just fine, and he needs our support. If a few seasons of success makes our fan base this "entitled" so quickly then we will never get the respect we all want so badly. Another thing to keep in mind is that Carson has not once EVER complained about his reduced role last year or the transition to a strong running football team. Honestly how many other "elite" QB’s can you see handling that situation like Carson has. He is our QB, like it or leave it

but what he did that Dilfer never could was win it when it counted. Show me another QB who is as good as palmer in the 2 minute drill?

I’d love to see the 2005-2007 Palmer return.

I believe that fans would be ok with this type of performance at Baltimore if he put up the kind of numbers he should against lesser teams. He was mediocre for 50 minutes against most every team last year, regardless of how good they were.

i’m surprised no coaches have caught that before.

(kidding)

Most of the reason folks are maligned on him is that he set such a high ceiling at such a young age. The other portion comes from having not been the qb of a team that has won a playoff game. Even though the passing game was not well at the end of last season, he still had a poor performance in the playoff game versus the Jets with a lot of national media eyes on that game. NFL QB is a ‘what have you done for me lately’ profession when it comes to media treatment unless it involves one of a very few players.

I believe he has lost a little as he has accrued injuries, but i still am more confident with him under center than a vast majority of NFL signal callers. Only six current starters have won a Superbowl, and I’d only take three over Palmer (Brady, P Manning and Brees – full disclosure, if I was not a Bengal fan, Roethlisberger may have made that list).

I was actually wondering what this conversation would have been like if the Bengals had actually signed Vick before he signed with the Eagles. If you remember, he did have a contract offer from the team before finally deciding upon Philly.

An interesting hypothetical, nothing more.

Beat up and afraid of the defense?

and it’s relationship to Brat’s calls and Carson’s opportunities. I hope everyone agrees that wins are more important than stats. By not openning up their offense the bengals are helping their defense. They should have fewer turnovers so the other team isn’t playing on a short field, they are controling clock and keeping the defense off the field, and they are keeping Carson out of harms way with a less than stellar O-line. So, it may not be pretty but if we win, even if it is a low scoring slugfest, I’ll be happy.

By far dude is under performing I want ten reasons why over 400 folks thinks he is great, cmon you can vote,explain why he is great. I think a GREAT QB wins playoff games and super bowls. please give me 10 reasons……GREAT seriously?

I need an option that says: Carson Palmer is seriously undermined by the poor play calling of his offensive coordinator.

Does anyone else find it strange that, just as every expert worth his salt states that the NFL is a passing league, just as both the Ravens and the Steelers have offensively joined the 21st century, the Bengals, in their infinite wisdom, have boldly leaped backwards in the hopes of becoming a running team? I mean, really, what’s the use of a golden-armed, pure pocket passer in a scheme like this anyway? With the possible exception of the Giants, the last decade of Super Bowl winning teams have been passing teams and we’re dinosaurs confounded by the approaching asteroid. Repeat after me: Pass first, run second.

when I saw this new thread and thought it would fit nicely here also. Please excuse some of the things written since it was a rebuttal directed to another specific comment.
People like you I really don’t understand. Your irrational hatred towards Palmer blinds you to everything else that makes up the game. I’d guess your one of the people that complains Brat sucks all the time and yet you don’t see how that might effect Palmers performance. You don’t like my hypothetical; but you don’t even answer what I asked? (Hint: the word ‘better’ doesn’t appear in it). You don’t respond to my comment about the line or the scheme -I know, their just excuses; yet we both know you complain about Brat. Did you ever think that what you take as panic is a guy knowing he’s about to take a sack and he still doesn’t have any receivers open, or that his shrinking pocket is cutting off his viewing lanes.
But your a numbers guy, so lets do the numbers.
The Line:
  Since Palmer was drafted the Bengals have had only 1 Pro Bowl lineman; Big Willie. I think a person could reasonably argue Willie hit his prime early in Palmers career (04,5 and 6) and fell off quickly due to injuries. Since picking Palmer the Bengals have drafted 11 O-lineman, only 3 third round or higher: Steinbach, Whitmore and Smith. Only 4 of the 11 are still on our roster. Of the 4 (Whitmore, Smith, Collins and Stephens) who’s better than "mediocre" (your standard) at pass blocking? Free agents? Who’s better than mediocre? As a unit, better than mediocre? I’m not arguing that Palmer should have 5 Pro Bowl lineman in front of him; but I am arguing the Bengals have made no major effort to put a good line in front of him. Before he went insane, Madden once said (this is not verbatim) A team lives or dies by the play of their line on both sides of the ball.
But the line is just an excuse right?
  So let’s look at Palmers numbers. I think you said in your first post, "It’s been a slow and steady trainwreck since the stretch run of ’06, regressing mightily each year. Look at his numbers (save your excuses)."
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________________Games____Rating___Comp____Att_____%_____Yds_______Y/G____Y/A__TD___INT

2007…………………16………86.6………373………575…….64.8……4131……..258.2……11……26……20
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Wow, you must have high standards for that to be mediocre.
2008 injured (I know just as excuse)
2009 Did you ever stop to think that the team switching to a run oriented offense may have been the result of A) the offensive line couldn’t pass protect in the preseason and/or B) Palmer still wasn’t right from his injury? But that’s just an excuse and your a numbers kind of guy, so:
________________Games____Rating___Comp___Att______%_____Yds_______Y/G____Y/A__TD___INT
2009…………………16………83.5……….282……..466………60.5……3094……193.4…….10.9…21……13
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Yep, there’s your mighty regression into a train wreck. Hmmm, I guess technically, completing half of his passes isn’t an improvement; but the numbers are way down. Wonder what would happen if you increased his attempts up to 2007 figures and refigured some stats according to his completion percentage. (Will use 100 instead of 109 for his attempts)
……………………………………………….342……..566……..60.5……..3754……234.6
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Now right about now I’m sure your saying, "Well that’s just a ridiculous hypothetical." That’s straight math and a reasonable way to make comparisions between seasons.
Could it be, with your blind hatred of Palmer, that you just don’t understand the concept of a run oriented offense? That the QBs numbers are going to be way down. That you want the QB to not take a bunch of risks and try to play ball control. Because I just don’t see in his numbers and the offensive philosophy, the trainwreck your talking about.
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  I’ve never argued in any of my posts defending Palmer that he’s one of the best or even a "Top 5 elite." I did think when they drafted him that he had all of the skill sets to be one of the best. I agree that he’s not as accurate (I think that’s more his mechanics got screwed up with his injury than his arm). I even agree that at times he looks a little ‘antsy’ in the pocket, I don’t blame him though (2 major injuries while in the pocket) anymore than I blame Chad for gator arming that high (but catchable) ball slanting towards the middle of the Ravens defense.. I know they’re professionals; but you show me somebody that likes the wood being laid to them and I’ll bring the 2 × 4.
   All I can really say is (and I know you think their excuses) until he gets good consistent protection and a playbook and playcalling that takes advantage of his and the receivers skills (how many times in the redzone and not one ‘jumpball’ play called to TO or Gresham) I’ll stick with him and defend him

Palmer is a standard pocket passer he is not a scrambler. If he has time to throw he will tear you apart. The worst thing the Bengals could have done after Carson got his knee blown out was break up the line, and that was the first thing they did! You can have all of the weapons in the world, but if your line can’t block, and you are not a scrambling quarterback, you are going to get killed. Why do you think that Brady (pre-Moss & Welker super bowl champs), Brees, and Manning are so effective with maybe one serious weapon each? They have got lines that can pass protect.

Is the mental aspect of the game. at this point in his career you’d think he’d do a better job of recognizing defenses, looking guys off, going through his progressions etc (think Brees, Manning, and Brady type intangibles). Instead, he’ll just lock on to one guy. It jsut seems like he’s not seeing the field. Honestly, I think it all comes down to confidence and it seems like he’s definitely not playing with the swagger that he had in 05,06. The coaching staff does him no favors by essentially asking him to play not to lose and by calling an offense that is predictable and disjointed. When they allow the offense to move faster and open up it seems like that’s when Carson finds his rhthym and we see the brief flashes of greatness that show how good he still can be.

For a while there Carson was right up there with Peyton Manning and Tom Brady as the only elite quarterbacks in the league. After the three of them there was a HUGE dropoff in ability. Things have changed tremendously since then. QB play around the league in general has drastically increased, while Palmer has gotten much worse. I wouldn’t put him in the top 10 now, but he’s still making top tier money.

Say what you want about the line and the playcalling, but just watch him play. He doesn’t throw the ball with any real velocity, the receivers usually have to jump or bend over to catch the ball, and he rarely goes through his progressions and finds the open guy.

Dan Marino caught a lot of flack for not being a mobile quarterback, but he was outstanding at taking a little side step to avoid the pass rusher without taking his eyes off the receivers Palmer has never had the slightest trace of that ability. I honestly wonder if his peripheral vision is impaired. When a pass rusher comes up behind him in the pocket, he doesn’t sense it at all. Some QBs sense it early enough to scramble, some just early enough to drop and tuck the ball, some eerily seem to know exactly where to step to stay out of harm’s way without moving more than two feet. Carson Palmer’s approach is to be completely oblivious, then to drop the ball when he gets hit. And it’s not about protection or lack thereof, it’s how he handles it when protection starts to break down.

Now add to that big flaw the fact that he doesn’t throw the ball hard or with consistent accuracy anymore and the fact that since the Kimo hit he still seems afraid to take the time to go through his progressions and find the open guy…

I’d love to see him get back into the form he had back in the day, but I’m getting tired of waiting and making excuses for him.