Andre Smith Practicing Between 10-15 Snaps Daily At Right Guard
by Josh Kirkendall on Sep 23, 2010 2:57 PM EDT
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PrintLet's take you in the way-back machine for a minute. Cincinnati's offensive line in 2008 struggled... like a lot. It became apparent early that the team wanted to draft an offensive tackle with their sixth overall pick in 2009. Rather than picking a stable guy with a good work ethic that may have been considered a reach in the early part of the first round, they picked Andre Smith, who missed so much time during negotiation that he effectively removed himself for any consideration as a starting right tackle. A few days after signing his contract, he breaks a bone in his foot during non-contact drills and misses the first half of the season.
During the offseason, he had work done on his foot again to help strengthen it and prevent future breaks. Problem was, he wasn't nearly ready when training camp started when the injury was only expected to keep him out until mid-May. He played some preseason and when he did, he didn't look particularly good. Smith did get his second career start last week against the Baltimore Ravens when the Bengals offense came out with an extra offensive lineman in their patent big-formation. However, according to Joe Reedy's snap chart, Smith was only in on 11 of the team's 67 overall snaps.
What do you do at this point? Is he a lost cause?
Since Smith is basically an expensive backup offensive tackle, Marvin Lewis wants him to work other areas on the offensive line. According to Geoff Hobson:
Bengals backup right tackle Andre Smith is getting about 10-15 snaps a day at right guard in practice after head coach Marvin Lewis told him he needed to play more than one spot as long as he’s a backup. It’s the first time he’s played guard since his freshman year in high school and upon hearing that center Kyle Cook chimed in jokingly with, “I played tackle in high school. Time to make the move?”
Seriously, Andre. You can't beat out Dennis Roland. I mean, seriously?
Though you have to admit, putting Smith at right guard as Bobbie Williams eventual replacement does have some intrigue with it.
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How about left guard?
Where we could really use some help at….
Big Willie
how about we bring back Willie Anderson, he’s better than Man-boobs even at his current age
it comes down to mind over matter....if you don't mind, it won't matter
RE:
Roland is not the answer at RT
it comes down to mind over matter....if you don't mind, it won't matter
I've been saying this since the offseason.
At least to mentor Andre like Reggie is Jermaine. It’s obviously not going to happen though.
by JamesShively on Sep 23, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Well if he plays right guard
We could pull him to the left on running play’s and get him out ahead of Ced a little to lay some monster blocks with Whit right beside him.
RE:
you know better than that shively, that makes too much sense
it comes down to mind over matter....if you don't mind, it won't matter
How much of a lead
would you have to give him though, before Ced runs right by him? Maybe line him up at flanker, 10 yards deep and let him get a running start at the line before the snap count? Damn rules. :)
by GrizzlyRider on Sep 23, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut Ooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnne …………………………………………………………………………………… …………………………………
Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut
Twoooooooooooooooooooooooo……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
etc. etc. etc.
by GrizzlyRider on Sep 24, 2010 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I like what Lewis is doing,
He’s basically saying that Smith needs to earn his spot just like everybody else. Thus far, Smith’s play has been adequate, not great, and hopefully he can be a bigger factor in the future.
Get him doing something
Post made me laugh, me and three of my co-workers were trying to figure out what happened to manboobs during lunch. This explains it. I think there is still some potential there, hopefully Marvin can get him working.
I think it is just possible that Smith will end up ar RT and be a fixture for us.
Everyone assumes he is a bust. I don’t think so. Andre flat our pounded Lewis on one play last week. When he matures and gets his feet inder him I think a lot of people will be laughing about how we thaoght he as a bust. Am I happy eith him now? No, not really but guys with his size, strength and talent are not very common. I see him as potential ProBowl material. Time will tell.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
Hope so
Because Andre looked absolutely awful at right tackle when he went up against the Colts’ Jerry Hughes in the preseason. Those who saw that game know what I’m talking about.
by bengal fan from new york on Sep 23, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup
That rook beat him like a drum. Plus, why would you take a guy that you project as a RT #6 overall??
my guess is
if he gets through this year healthy, then has full participation in the offseason training program, he will be the guy going forward. That being said, I would to see him win the starting RT job by the bye week.
by Cedric Benson Boat Party on Sep 23, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
This sounds like a Mike Brown kind of thing.
He’s probably breathing down Marvin’s neck about getting him more time due to his expensive contract. Reminds me of last year when everyone thought there was something wrong with Carsons arm because Mikey asked Marvin if there was something wrong.
Mikey to Marvin-“Is there something wrong with Andre’s foot?
Marvin to Mikey-”Nope I’ll force him in the game boss"
RE:
Mikey or not, historically speaking, Marvin likes backup players that play multiple positions.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Josh Kirkendall on Sep 23, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Right on man. I'm all for it. Expand the guy's abilities.
This gives him versatility which will gives him more opportunities to get in the game somewhere and make an impact.
by JamesShively on Sep 23, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
RE:Tru that
If nothing else, he can provide depth across the right side of the line. Here’s my question: what woudl we do w/Roland if Smith wins the starting RT job? Move him to a guard spot (or is he too tall and would cause issues for Palmer throwin over him in the slot) or just leave him at backup RT? ORRRR Maybe the ultimate Mikey Boy move- put him at FB
it comes down to mind over matter....if you don't mind, it won't matter
Roland is fine....
….as a backup, where he needs to be
by Bengal mayhem on Sep 23, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Could one of you guys please tell me what you dislike about Roland?
Specifically, what’s the problem? Other than the fact that he’s not Andre Smith, and not a high draft pick, what’s wrong with Roland? As far as I know, he hasn’t yet given up a sack this year.
Exactly what are you looking for in a right tackle?
Running to the right side
hasn’t been exceptional. Benson is better on the right. Also Rolands pass protection is probably worst on the line… he’s solid. Just not great.
That's it?
So essentially, you’re saying Whitworth, a second round draft pick, is a better blocker than Roland, the undrafted college free agent. Well… okay.
It’s also interesting that you think Roland’s pass protection is probably the worst on the line. Since he’s given up no sacks, that would indicate the rest of the guys are playing like all-pros.
Frankly, I think Roland is used by many here as a whipping boy. And oddly, it’s often by people that are simultaneously annoyed with the under-achieving Andre Smith. It leaves me shaking my head.
Pass protection isn't necessarily his weakness...
The real issue I have with Roldand is his lack of run-blocking ability. I never see him blowing guys off the line of scrimmage and pushing them back so Benson can run. Say what you want about Andre Smith, but when he starts moving forward, he can really do some road-grading. And countless times, I have seen DE’s bullrush Roland back into the pocket. With Smith, at least you know nobody is going to blow him back into Palmer – and I think he has quicker feet than critics let on to block against the quicker DE’s. Sure, against the Colts, he got burned a few times, but I believe that was his first game coming back from an off-season of foot surgery and subsequent lackluster training regimen.
I saw flashes of greatness from him last year and still have hopes he can get himself back to the level he is capable of.
by Bengal mayhem on Sep 24, 2010 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions
The Bengals coaching staff doesn't seem to think Roland is weak on run blocking.
Surely you were watching all last season when they Bengals kept running behind Roland at the point of attack. They even went to the point of occasionally playing Anthony Collins at right tackle, and shifting Roland to the left side in a tight end position so they could run behind him there. You don’t do that if the guy is a poor run blocker.
Last season, when Roland was, as you say, bull-rushed, it was generally a case, as Crew Jones refers to below, of getting beat on leverage. I think it’s ridiculous to say it happened “countless times.” And as the season went on, it certainly happened less. Roland obviously learned from his mistakes and improved.
Now, when were these games last season when Andre Smith was dazzling you with flashes of brilliance? I must have been getting a sandwich during those plays.
But look. I’m not saying Roland is tremendous. Just better than adequate. And I think Andre Smith may still turn out okay. But let’s keep some perspective. Roland is far from being a major problem.
And if you'd like my opinion, the real problem seems to be with the center and left side of the line.
Cook may be playing more hurt than we’re aware. And I’m also wondering if Gresham’s understanding of his pass blocking duties is causing some of the line’s problems.
Okay.....
So, you you’ve raised some legitimate points and now I’m hungry cause I just spent my lunch break looking at film on youtube for a rebuttal. There’s probably better highlights out there, but in the limited time I’ve had to do research, I found the following video clip on youtube with Cedric Benson highlights…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGXAWIWRuZ0&feature=related
Now, watching this, I’ll concede to you that I have better respect for Roland and that he definitely has some good blocks on here. Though, if you’ll scroll to 1:53, I believe my arguments for Andre Smith will be slightly validated. On this play, you will notice number 71 absolutely dominate a defensive lineman, pushing him straight back 5 yards. Now the DE actually makes the tackle on the play – except it is seven yards down field after Smith owns him.
Let me redirect you to another play… 6:09, Anthony Collins manhandles another defensive lineman.
Granted, Roland has a lot of good blocks on here, but all of them are either on smaller defensive players, such as linebackers or defensive backs – or he is just maintaining ground against a defensive lineman. I challenge you to find me film of Roland absolutely mauling a defensive lineman like the aforementioned plays by AS and AC. That is where you separate the men from the boys….
by Bengal mayhem on Sep 24, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Gee, you shouldn't have wasted your lunch break.
I respect that you’re taking an honest approach to this issue, but let’s not be wasting lunch breaks. We’re just two guys kicking around opinions. Marvin Lewis isn’t following this debate.
But as you say, okay… let’s go to the video.
I did watch part of it, but not much – since it mostly just backed up my argument. Nearly everytime the Bengals ran to the right, Roland was moving somebody out of the way or sealing off the corner so Benson could turn it or sliding into the defensive backfield to pick off the middle linebacker.
But specifically, at :44, 1:10, 2:20, 2:30, and 2:42 from what I can see, Roland is matched up with a lineman, usually the Jets defensive end Shaun Ellis (#92), and he’s driving him off the line while Benson comes around from behind. You need to watch 2:42 closely, because Roland knocks his lineman off to the center of the line, to be picked up by Bobbie Williams, and then gets the middle linebacker.
The whole video is some ten minutes long, and I didn’t even get to the three minute mark before I had seen enough. Roland is a proven commodity. He can handle the men as well as the boys.
Let me note, in the early going I did see a nice sustained driving block by Andre Smith. God knows, he has the talent. But to hope for his development doesn’t mean we have to diminish what Roland is already doing on a consistent basis.
Not sure what you saw on the 2:42 play....
Roland barely touches the guy as he is picked up by Williams. I’ll credit him with the quick pickup on the linebacker, but the key block was Whitworth on the DE. Swap Whitworth with Roland and that play goes for negative yards. But I can respect you’re unrelenting passion for defending Roland – who no doubt gets dubbed with more blame than he is responsible for.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I’ve got Marvin calling on the phone, looking for some guidance.
by Bengal mayhem on Sep 25, 2010 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
No leverage
seems like DE’s can get under his pads. He just doesnt seem to do anything well but his biggest problem is leverage
No leverage? None at all? Really?
Why do I suspect you’re merely saying that because Roland is 6’ 9"? Every darn t.v. color commentator when they’re looking to say something about Roland (and they go into each game with something jotted down about practically every player) they have to remark about his height, which is on the tall side. And having done so, they then come up with the amazing insight that Roland might have problems with defensive ends getting “under his pads.”
You know what? Everybody on both sides of the line has problems with people getting under their pads! Getting under the other guy’s pads is the name of the game.
But seriously, if defensive linemen are constantly getting under his pads, then where are all the sacks? Why aren’t they just wheeling him out of the way on their path to Carson Palmer?
I swear, if Roland gives up one sack this weekend, critics will descend upon his miserable hide by the thousands.
expensive backup
maybe so, but not players who make $7 million per year
by Bengal mayhem on Sep 23, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
what intrigue?
everyone knows if you leave andre smith alone with bobbie williams, smith will eat williams.
smiths going to get hungry..
"wherever Brad St. Louis is and Shayne Graham is about to be." -R.F. Mehl
what do you mean "going to get hungry
Thats what the doctor said about him before he was born and now he is ALWAYS hungry
I'd rather he be a starting guard on our team...
than a backup tackle.
He was a 6th overall pick for christ’s sake. HE MUST BE ABLE TO START SOMEWHERE.
Don't blow a gasket 'basa...
…Smith will be the starting RT before the end of the year or at least by the start of training camp (knock on wood that there’s a season next year). What we tend to forget is that he’s been injured since he signed and he’s finally healthy. He played well in the Raven’s game and didn’t blow any assignments that I could see. Let’s see what he can do when healthy before he’s labeled a bust. BTW, good move to give him some snaps at RG.
only way smith starts this season
smith steps on the starting guard/tackles foot and injuries them..
"wherever Brad St. Louis is and Shayne Graham is about to be." -R.F. Mehl
Dude, he's a bust
He’s too slow. He’s a guard in the NFL at best. they spent a #6 pick on a friggin guard. Clearly, they want him to play. He’s just not good enough. Not even good enough to beat out Roland ( a below average NFL RT). The fact is that if Andre was undrafted or a low pick he would’ve been cut. I hope he can get it together and turn into the pro-bowler they clearly thought that he would be…but at this point he’s a big, fat, lazy. overpaid, BUST
We don't need him at RG.
Bobbie is the RG. We need help at LG/
"Before I write I let my mind go blind and let the Lord do His thing. " -Tupac Shakur
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it looks like work." -Thomas Edison
I agree that he could be a better guard than OT
but he does need to be opposite Bobbie
In Zim We Trust......Collaros for Heisman...An Avid Reader of Cincyjungle.com
A lot of predraft analysts said he was going to end up at guard. It’s looking like a distinct possibility at this point. And if he can get on (and stay on) the field, he’d probably be a good one.
But I still wish we’d drafted Oher. I bet we could have gotten Andre in round 3 if we still wanted him at that point.
True Disappointment
Andre needs to SHOW US ALL! 21 million guaranteed….Are you kidding me???
Another Max Montoya?
Don’t underestimate a guard that can pull & get out infront of a running back. I remember many times seeing Max Montoya leading the way for James Brooks giving him that one extra block. But can he do it? Does he have the foot work? This was a Munoz/Montoya throwback post!
by Vman in Germany on Sep 24, 2010 8:47 AM EDT reply actions
Remember when....
Andre was the pick of Cincy Jungle? Not only Josh, but nearly everyone here was backing the pick (Nick Saban said he was good!). I can’t even pat myself on the back for seeing this trainwreck before it happened. Very few things in life have been so obvious.
Anyone want to come clean or are we going to pretend we all hated it from the get go?
Well,
If he ends up being a bust maybe he can make it in Hollywood. I hear they’re remaking another Fat Albert movie. Or maybe a B horror flick; something like “The Bengal that Ate Cincinnati.” What’s your title?
"Refrigerator Perry:
the later years" Starring Andre Smith as William Perry
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