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The Daily Banter: Time To Lower Expectations Of Bengals Passing Offense

+ Marvin Lewis on the whole embarrassing ending to the team's first half where Dennis Roland is seen still running towards the line of scrimmage.

“We’ve got to learn from that. It’s a great learning situation for us to have; for the quarterback to make sure if he’s going to get it to Jermaine (Gresham) that Jermaine is going to fall into the end zone, or else it’s got to go out the back so we can get the points,” said Lewis, sounding like he had the rookie QB. “That’s a good one to have on tape. Again, we hurt ourselves with the penalty. That’s one of those things where everybody is talking about why you clock the ball. Well, there’s an instance of why you clock it instead of getting up to run a play and having to have the cadence and all of that.”

This brings up the the other side of the debate. Wasn't it Carson Palmer that threw a pass short of the endzone with no time outs and the clock ticking away, as Marvin is suggesting? With 15 seconds left in the first half, Palmer hits Jermaine Gresham for a five-yard gain. It makes sense if the team is looking to convert a field goal beyond 40 yards. Or in Nugent's case, six miles. Still, the five-yard gain brought Cincinnati no real gains, moving the football to the five-yard line.

But the truth is, this never happens if Kyle Cook remembered the snap count. By not snapping the football when 10 players expected it, the team was called for a false start. Cincinnati was forced to use their third timeout so they wouldn't be penalized with a ten-second run off before the end of the half.

Star-divide

+ John Thornton is a man of common sense. He offers a small suggestion for you, if anything, to help you maintain good health during the upcoming flu and cold months.

Bengals fans are all saying the same thing as they did last two weeks, “What’s wrong with our offense?”. I think its time for Bengals fans to lower expectations for the offensive side of the ball. Do yourself a favor and raise expectations for your defense and special teams.

This is a wise suggestion. We always expected Carson Palmer of the old Golden Arm days to go all mad scientist with the weapons at his disposal. Perhaps it's time to lower expectations, believe in the running game and the defense and take whatever we can get with the passing game.

+ Joe Reedy released his weekly report card, giving Carson Palmer the worst grade this week writing "Whether it’s footwork, mechanics or decision making, something is clearly amiss with Carson Palmer."

+ Paul Daugherty has his own take on Palmer, writing:

He doesnt look comfortable back there. He short-arms throws, he bounces throws to open receivers, he doesnt look off defenders. Every check down is a handoff to Benson, right or left tackle.

+ Since his completed hail mary at the end of the first half against the New England Patriots that went for 51 yards, Palmer's "longest pass in the last six quarters is a 29-yard" pass to Terrell Owens against Baltimore.

+ Chad Ochocinco is in seriously bad shape. Along with the crack ribbed he tweeted about last week -- though he never appeared on the team's injury report -- Chad is now dealing with a swollen ankle, a right hand that won't close and a dislocated pinky (kinda gross).

+ Peter King, the guy that usually pretends to hate Cincinnati while secretly housing a crush on them since the mid-70s, writes: "I remember the days when the Bengals played ugly all the time. So to win ugly, to Cincinnati, is a thing of beauty." King also gave Kevin Huber one of the two Special Teams Players of the Week, writing:

Of the many great special-team performances Sunday, why pick a guy who averaged 38.2 yards per punt? Because Huber, a second-year punter from two miles away from Paul Brown Stadium -- from the University of Cincinnati -- dropped five of his six punts inside the 20, including two gems. He put a 45-yarder at the Carolina 4 and a 37-yarder to the Carolina 2. The Bengals stopped the toothless Panthers both times and got the ball back in great field position -- at the Cincinnati 47 and the Carolina 42. That is the unseen story in so many games, the field-position the punter hands the offense. And Huber was magnificent at that in Charlotte.

+ NFP's Matt Bowen has noticed Palmer's slow start this season, writing:

The Bengals are bad on offense right now and it starts at the QB position. Simple throws, the 3-step game, the out route, the underneath crossers. Basics, like the slant route, look poorly executed. Palmer does not look comfortable and he doesn’t seem to have any rhythm with Terrell Owens or Chad Ochocinco. You can get away with that against a Carolina team that is in trouble after 3 weeks, but that won’t sell going forward in the AFC North. I like the Bengals because of their defense and the amount of carries RB Cedric Benson can handle on Sundays, but you still need to make plays in the passing game.

+ Just when I thought that the thousands of links we send off to the Enquirer might bring a little love back our way, I was once again disappointed.

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sf fired their oc

so it can be done.
    i like marvin. but he is the coach. clock management and dumb penalties is his job. and it is not new to his teams.
       he needs to fire brat and find out how to help himself with the little stuff. i watched ryan and sparano last night. these guys have their shit together. ryan even had a special teamer fake an injury after a qiuck td to give his d a little rest before they had to go back out.

by andyfrombrooklyn on Sep 27, 2010 2:25 PM EDT reply actions  

FIRE BRATSUCKSKI

I am turning purple now! Obviously the Bengals ownership has lowered their expectations or they would have fired him by now! WTF!!! The offense is a rudderless ship! The Bengals are pissing away their best chance at a Super Bowl in years!!!

by Vman in Germany on Sep 27, 2010 2:31 PM EDT reply actions  

i'm not ready to hang palmer

this town had a lukewarm relationship with kenny anderson for most of his career. starting to feel that palmer could be in for some of that love/hate in cincy.

there are so many factors that go into a successful or unsuccessful qb in the nfl. many of those aren’t things the qb can even control.

is palmer launching missiles? no. does he look comfortable behind the o-line? not all the time. are the plays perfectly called? nope.

does palmer own some of the responsibility for the qb production, sure. is it all on him, hell no. cincy fans, be glad we have palmer, 1/2 the teams in the nfl are doing way worse at the qb position then we are.

"wherever Brad St. Louis is and Shayne Graham is about to be." -R.F. Mehl

by palewook on Sep 27, 2010 2:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Good point about half of the teams being worse at the QB position.

There aren’t a ton of guys I’d rather have than Palmer.

"Before I write I let my mind go blind and let the Lord do His thing. " -Tupac Shakur

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it looks like work." -Thomas Edison

by sexsalad on Sep 27, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

So you'd rather have Delhomme as the starter?

Trent Edwards? Matt Moore/Jimmy Clausen? Derek Anderson? Chad Henne? Matt Hasselbeck?

Those guys are all starters and I’d take Palmer easily over any of them.

"Before I write I let my mind go blind and let the Lord do His thing. " -Tupac Shakur

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it looks like work." -Thomas Edison

by sexsalad on Sep 27, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I did this exercise during the game yesterday.

Listing starting QB’s around the league I would rather have less than Palmer. It came out to:

Clausen
Fitzpatrick
Anderson
Alex Smith

That’s really about it. There MIGHT be one or two names I’m missing, but that still puts Palmer solidly in the bottom 5 or 6 QB’s in the league in my mind right now, with no real excuse and no real sign of an upside except for his performances from upwards of 3+ years ago. The fact of the matter is after this year we’re going to have to start thinking about alternatives – if that’s drafting a QB high to straight up replace Carson or at the very least signing a LEGIT backup to give us the option of a midseason changeup if things are bad.

by eric nyc on Sep 27, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

OK??

So does this mean you would take the other 27 or 28 starting QB’s you didn’t mention.

by NY Bengal M on Sep 27, 2010 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I totally agree. We all see what a good coach and leader can do. Look at our D. All this talk that Carson is our problem is ridiculous. Look Ced is only averaging 3.1 a carry and our recievers are blanketed. What Brat did in 05 worked because it was new. Its time for a new OC.
Bengal fans turned on Anderson, Boomer, hell even Jeff Blake. Carson isnt to be excused but I for one think he isnt even a 1/4 of the problem. Would you like Dennis the menace Roland trying to keep you safe?

by Bengal Brian on Sep 27, 2010 2:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Totally Agree with Lowered Expectations

I guess it was the OC’s fault that Carson had another episode of brain lock and threw a completed pass to the 5 with no timeouts and just a few seconds on the clock. The QB is the leader of the offense on the field. You guys act as if the coaches should be holding his hand or something. The penalty on the previous play is unfortunate but the QB just can’t make that decision. All you guys who think Carson should be throwing the ball all over the field have to realize that he just can’t do that on a regular basis anymore. He has to become a dink and dunk QB using his backs, TE and receivers on short stuff over the middle and then playaction for the occasional big play downfield.

by NY Bengal M on Sep 27, 2010 4:06 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree.

I’ve been saying that since the first game. Use Gresham and Shipley til you can’t stand it anymore…and then some. Wish they would alter the entire game plan to focus on the run and short passes. Let the receivers do the work for you.

"I really dig Hannibal. Hannibal had real guts. He rode elephants into Cartilage." - Mike Tyson

by morrison360 on Sep 27, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Benchmark 05-07

When Palmer and the Bengals had success in the passing game, the dynamic looked like this: Henry deep routes, Ocho intermediate, Housh underneath and throw in the RB passes when Perry was healthy. Now it’s like they are a West Coast offense. They’ve made TO into a possession receiver. From what I can tell, he looks slow out of breaks but still has the long stride and separation for deep balls. Go back to the blueprint that worked – let TO run deep, ocho intermediate, shipley/gresham underneath and scott/leonard out of the backfield.

by gpcu02 on Sep 27, 2010 4:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Benchmark 05-07??

Maybe it should just be Benchmark 05??

The other years 06-07 we were not a very good football team.

In fact the only meaningful win in 06 was week 3 vs. Pittsburgh(a very sloppy game might I add successful due to the stellar play of T.J. and Slim). In 05 we had a spectacular line and an injury free Palmer. Most passing yards accumulated in subsequent seasons were in a catch up effort that produced few meaningful touchdowns.(See week 1 2010 season).

Not to mention 85 and 84 were in their prime and Slim was fresh outta W.V.

by stripes earner on Sep 27, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

There are all kinds of things wrong.

Carson is definitely one of them, but Dennis Roland is #2 with a bullet. The guy probably wound’t even make the 53 man roster on most teams in the league and he’s STARTING on our line. The Andre Smith blunder is one that is likely going to be looked back on as the beginning of the end of the Carson era.

But even Bratkowski can’t be blamed for what we’re seeing now. Carson is missing the simplest of throws HORRIBLY. His idea of recognizing a defense seems to be “I dont’ know what’s going on so I’m just going to hand it off to Ced up the middle…can’t blame me for whatever happens after that.” An 8 year Pro Bowl veteran has no excuse to stare down receivers like he is doing now. And I can’t figure out what combination of injury, coaching, or WHAT happened to him since 2007 to get him here. The only thing I can think of is that the elbow injury altered his mechanics so badly he can’t get back to form…and 2 years removed from it that likely means they aren’t coming back.

With a lockout likely next year, we should probably be on the lookout for a top-rated QB in the next draft (whenever that is) because Carson doesn’t have much time left. Maybe 3 years tops and that looks generous right now. And at the very least we need a viable alternative on the bench if things go south on him faster than expected. All day Sunday all I could think was “We don’t even have an option…it’s not like we can put JORDAN in…” Our backup is LITERALLY a second-rate version of our starter.

by eric nyc on Sep 27, 2010 5:19 PM EDT reply actions  

confessions of a Palmer Apologist

Yes, Brat is horrible. Yes, Mike Brown screws up alot. Yes, we are playing with an Oline that had to overacheive to make it on an NFL roster (except Smith). All those things don’t excuse the fact that Carson is not very good right now. There I said it.
I know this is crazy but Carson should be the next guy benched. Last year it was because he didn’t have any weapons, this year the talent is everywhere and he looks like Brady Frickin Quinn out there. I admit benching him will not happen and probably not help, but something…anything.
Something has to be done to get him focused on football again.

by steve whodey on Sep 27, 2010 5:49 PM EDT reply actions  

dunno abou that hoss

unless you truly believe jordan palmer is the answer..

"wherever Brad St. Louis is and Shayne Graham is about to be." -R.F. Mehl

by palewook on Sep 27, 2010 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

address the quarterback situation

Fire Bratkowski sure, he is a terrible offenseive coordinator. But the real issue here is Palmer’s poor judgment with his passes. There are two short term fixes that are possible here. The first would be to lure Kevin Kolb away from Philly via trade, which is very unlikely, and besides who knows how good or bad he might really be. The second is for Marvin to take a page out of Andy Reid’s book from last season when he benched Mcnabb. The bengals are playing the browns this week why not sit palmer to let him know that he can no longer continue down this road.

by bwilly on Sep 27, 2010 9:35 PM EDT reply actions  

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