Lewis is in Palmer's Corner - Are You?
by Jason Garrison on Sep 28, 2010 6:10 PM EDT
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PrintSo far this season there have been many different Bengals story lines: Batman and Robin, the move to a more balanced offense, Mike Zimmer's tough defense and rookies Jermaine Gresham and Jordan Shipley's awesomeness. There has been one story line that has been discussed and debated more than all of the others: What's the deal with Carson Palmer?
Some think that he hasn't been the same since Kimo von Serialkiller smashed Palmer's knee in 2005. Some believe that his elbow is not completely healed. Others share the belief that the offensive line doesn't allow Palmer to play at his potential and still others think that Palmer is just flat out overrated. Whatever the case may be, Marvin Lewis and the Bengals have Palmer's back.
"When he has opportunities to throw the football and deliver the ball he does an excellent job," Lewis said. "Yesterday he had some guys not quite do the things he needs them to do right. It all reflects back on the quarterback."
I'm not going to say what I think but I will say this: After watching other NFL games this weekend, including the passing contest between Aaron Rodgers and Jay Cutler on Monday night, Palmer doesn't look nearly as sharp as half the quarterbacks from other teams. I don't know whose fault it is but I do know that it is somebody's fault and it needs to be fixed. We all know that the NFL is a passing league. The teams that win the Super Bowl can move the ball down the field through the air. Right now, the Cincinnati Bengals cannot do that.
Bengals offensive coordinator Bob Bratkowski, who many Bengals fans blame for the Bengals lackluster offense, believes that Palmer doesn't look sharp but that the struggling passing game is not all his fault, it just looks like it is.
Bratkowski said of Palmer's performance: "It wasn't one of his better games. But like any quarterback, he needs help from the other guys. The dropped balls and the routes being precise and the protections.
"If everybody bases it totally on numbers, that's where the criticism comes in and the quarterback always takes the brunt of the heat."
So, what's the plan? How are the thinkers in the sky box going to fix the Bengals offense? Well, the plan is to do what they're doing now and hope it gets better.
"We're not going to fall short this year. We're going to throw the ball and we're going to throw it effectively," Bratkowski said. "The identity is run the ball and, at the same time, be productive in our pass game and we will be."
The one common thread to the struggles has been the play of the offensive line. Despite all five starters being back, they haven't consistently opened running lanes and provided Palmer with time or a clean pocket.
"I think we're a little more balanced in throwing it this year," Bratkowski said. "And we've got to do a better job in the protection, where as last year there was a heavy focus on the run and less exposed in protection."
Here's the fact of the matter, Palmer is Cincinnati's guy, for better or for worse. He's not going anywhere because his paycheck is way too big and the Bengals can't just let him walk away without squeezing everything they can out of him. My parents always said that you can't squeeze blood out of a turnip. If it turns out that Palmer is a turnip then the Bengals could be in some trouble. However, you could definitely squeeze blood from *insert anything living here*. The question is, is Carson Palmer a turnip or is he something that you can squeeze blood from? What do you think?
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Its because of the O-line
Carson is hurrying/forcing throws because the pocket is always collapsing in on him
That also means Brats dumbass needs to adjust the routes being run so the receivers get open quicker
and in turn carson can get rid of it quicker so he isnt hurrying or forcing throws
Brat doesn't make adjustments..
by the way, Brat has the worst WR route tree in the NFL. Misdirection.?. nah, we don’t need it!
by 80%OFTHETIMEIMRIGHTEVERYTIME on Sep 28, 2010 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
gotta go with you on this one
only happy with 1/5 th of our starting O-Line
"wherever Brad St. Louis is and Shayne Graham is about to be." -R.F. Mehl
I beleive they need to make a trade for a RT or LG
Either one would help tremendously. Or put jelly moobs in and let that fat bastard play. You drafted him 6th overall get his fatass out there and make him earn his money.
Logan Mankins??
not that it would happen but we know that NE loves their 2nd round draft choices. I’d rather trade for a proven commodity (especially a young player like Mankins) than trust the Bengals to draft one
I dont even understand how he can even play a sport
He just looks fat. Whitworth looks big and Strong he just looks flabby and weak
This is absolutely hilarious
is that really lard-ass in the flesh?
by Bengal mayhem on Sep 28, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
unfortunately
that really is andre smith
"wherever Brad St. Louis is and Shayne Graham is about to be." -R.F. Mehl
When was this taken?
Is that a backpack? Is this of him back in Alabamba? He looks like he missed the bus and is trudging to school. Or desparately tried to chase down an ice cream in vain…
by Bengal mayhem on Sep 28, 2010 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
oh and what did marvin say about the shape smith showed up into camp at this year
Andre’s going to figure out how to become a pro and do things the way it’s asked to do all the time. Hopefully he continues to do it in a timely fashion. Because otherwise, I’m not going to go through this year in and year out.
"wherever Brad St. Louis is and Shayne Graham is about to be." -R.F. Mehl
This had to have been a prank
I can picture Bobbie Williams or Dhani Jones in a pickup truck a few feet ahead with a twinkie held out making him chase it down. Imagine if someone like Ray Lewis was on the team. Maybe he would suffered enough ass-poundings to actually get himself in shape and contribute. I think our older team captains are too nice – or more concerned about reality shows.
by Bengal mayhem on Sep 28, 2010 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions
The good...
He’s not making mistakes that hurt us – although a few errant passes could have been disasters last week.
The bad…
He’s not making the kind of plays he used to make with ease even when he’s had time.
It's not one or the other it's a combination of them all messing up.
The offensive line isn’t doing good, the wide receivers are running bad routes, and Carson is making bad throws even when pressure isn’t an issue. Collectively these are the problem. They all need to “REACH DOWN INSIDE AND BE A F!@#% PRO!”
I think that pretty much sums it up.
"I really dig Hannibal. Hannibal had real guts. He rode elephants into Cartilage." - Mike Tyson
This isn't fantasy football.
We can’t just replace Carson. Jordan would be an even bigger disaster.
And we can’t drop Brat on a Monday, replace him on a Tuesday and expect the offense to suddenly jell.
If we were 0-3 and the season already lost – maybe Marvin makes a change before he loses his job.
But at 2-1, no. The players are who they are.
Palmer has proven able to do the things necessary for the Bengals to win - and win consistently
He has taken this franchise to the playoffs TWICE in his career, come back from a devastating knee injury and a career threatening elbow problem. He’s developed into a leader the team respects and remains an all around classy-guy off the field. He’s had a two and half bad games this year, one against the best defense of the past decade, another against what appears to be an underrated defense in monsoon-like conditions, and the other against the most tactically brilliant coach of the modern era that had an entire off-season to scheme against the Bengals offense. People that want to drop Palmer are crazy; give him a chance for the rest of the season.
Bratkowski, on the other hand,…..
"Ryan, Things in here don't react too well to bullets." - Marko Ramius
with you on bratt
would happily help pack his bags if it would get him out of town quicker..
"wherever Brad St. Louis is and Shayne Graham is about to be." -R.F. Mehl
RE
There is always the “what have you done for me lately” factor.
by JamesShively on Sep 28, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem is not and has not been Palmer. If it was Palmer then he would be just as bad in the hurry-up where Palmer is calling all the plays. No the problem is when he is not calling the plays and Brats on skis is calling the plays.
http://cdn1.sbnation.com/profile_images/174579/jungle_avatar.jpg
I thought this is a pretty good assesment of what people believe is wrong with palmer...
Carson has several other problems that a seasoned QB should not have. 1) He looks down his recievers. He never looks them off and the DBs are jumping the routes. 2) Whenever he reads a blitz, he audibles to a run play, almost always inside left or right tackle. 3) He is scared stiff of getting hurt (he talks about it every year) and panics before he has to. 4) When he panics and throws, he never follows through and the ball sails and he gets his WRs killed. 5) He doesn’t read the defense well and never finds a wide open receiver when the other team blitzes, too many times I have seen him throw into double or triple coverage to Chad and there is a WR or TE streaking free to the end zone.
Now why can’t the QB coach correct his locking on or throwing the ball off his back foot. It has been going on for years. His arm allowed him to drill the ball into tight spaces before, but the rubber band elbow ligament prevents him from doing that.
Carson Palmer shows no sign of adapting,
And like I said earlier alot of this could be corrected with adjusting WR routes.
He will not be worried about being hit if he gets the ball out quicker. He gets the ball out quicker by the receivers running shorter developing routes. The routes should be adjusted to the QB’s strengths by the OC. Our OC is a flipping idiot who still has his WR routes taking like 7-8 seconds to development when it should be 3-4. ( See Mike Martz with Jay Cutler and the bears O-line. Not only does it help Cutler but it helps the O-line also) He never seems to have any issues hitting Jermaine or Shipley because their routes are quicker developing which helps Carson mentally and helps him step into his throws and deliver them accurately. Pay attention this Sunday and you will see the passes palmer completes without any effort is the quick routes and comebacks. I don’t understand how Brat cannot see this. He needs to run more quick outs, slants and comebacks. This will help open up longer pass plays along with executing the running plays better. They need to use Scott more, if even just to help carson get in rhythm and help boost up his confidence. Carson seems to have lost the confidence he had back in 05 ever since all the injuries. They need to Draft O-line in rounds 1-3 this year and get the best available in each round.
I also believe if they get Palmer a better line he will pick apart defenses again
He won’t be worried about getting hit, which he will then in turn step into his throws and be more precise. Carson had all day in 05 to stand in the pocket and find an open WR. For some reason our offense is built outside in when it should be inside out. We have a pocket passer not a scrambling throw on the run passer.
Watching Cutler and Rodgers play last night....
First of all, I saw them getting pressured and hit all night long, yet still made plays. Secondly, I notice they take deep 7-9 steps back from the line, which I think allows many things: better vision because they aren’t surrounded by a bunch of 6’5" guys, less pocket pressure, better angles to throw the screen pass and outward slants, less of an upward angle needed to throw the ball over the line which prevents the floaters which lead to interceptions, deflections, and overthrowing the receivers, more time to see the oncoming rush, and easier to scramble if necessary.
I think the major reason Carson doesn’t like to drop deep back is because he lacks the manueverability to scramble and is also probably terrified of getting hit hard in the open field.
by Bengal mayhem on Sep 28, 2010 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Palmer doesn't choose
how far he drops back each pass. Pass drops are designed into the plays
by GrizzlyRider on Sep 29, 2010 4:38 AM EDT up reply actions
So then what?
I think it is time to draft a QB and groom him to replace Palmer. Enough of this rotating back-up crap and Jordan isn’t the answer. Wonder what the Eagles would take for Kolb? Ha Actually, I think we have a few more good years out of Palmer and I’d just like to see a real effort at developing a future replacement, a la Farv-ra to Rogers. Yet he’s been fairly disappointing. The Panthers should have had at least 5 picks on Sunday. While only the team knows of 85, etc weren’t where they were supposed to be, it’s frustrating to watch.
But then again, we are winning!!
The best stat on palmer that I saw was ....
He is on pace for 18 Int’s and he is on pace for 45 ALMOST Int’s
I was hoping they'd bring in Troy Smith
…but then they picked up LeFevre or however you spell his name, which could work out given time…but Smith is a good qb…smart and athletic.
"I really dig Hannibal. Hannibal had real guts. He rode elephants into Cartilage." - Mike Tyson
Really?
I’m an OSU fan, but COME ON. Do we really need another Jeff Blake/Akilli Smith prototype to prove that the short, running QB doesn’t work?
by Bengal mayhem on Sep 28, 2010 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Perfect storm of problems
For years, I rationalized away Carson’s problems. He was struggling because he had to score so many points every game (back when we didn’t have a defense). Then the defense started to improve, but the running game and o-line weakened, and that was my new excuse. We have good RBs, now, but the o-line has either been ignored or incompetently addressed. And it’s not like the playcalling has ever been that great. Brat lucked out stat-wise for a while, but that was because of the across-the-board talent, and we don’t have it anymore.
So, while there are a lot of contributing factors, I feel that a QB ultimately has to take a team on his back. They won’t always succeed, but a truly great QB will do better than Carson is doing right now. I think he needs everything to be going perfectly to be able to function, and our inability to keep him from getting hit has resulted in some form of psychological shakiness. He’s seeing pressure that isn’t always there.
In all honesty, Carson isn’t my main concern. I’m worried, but I’m even more worried about the o-line, which is looking disastrous. I’m afraid we’ve become one of those teams that inexplicably ignores o-line and falls into disarray. I think that’s the most common “coach killer” out there.
What truly good OL picks have we had, under Marvin? Bobbie was a FA, remember. Whitworth is the only real good one. We begged for a center for years, they drafted Luigs, and he never even played a meaningful snap. We seem to ignore guard altogether, and Hudson couldn’t even make the team. No need to talk about Andre Smith. Anthony Collins is a mystery-man who could be bad or could be good and idiotically underused. For a “fundamentals” coach, Marvin sure has ignored this area.
My main problem with all this is how reluctant we are to change things. Okay, we’ll finally bring in some good RBs. Okay, we’ll finally bring in WR help and a pass-catching TE. By the time we get a new o-line built, Carson’s window will be closer to closing, and even then, I bet Brat will still be around to ruin things. We should’ve cut bait all at once, save for Carson—imagine if we’d gotten a new OC years ago and truly focused on the OL.
Are you aware there is nothing wrong with the offense?
This is just one of our “Themes.” Carson is pro bowl bound the O-line is far and above better then anything we have ever seen. Its just that the teams we play are somehow outsmarting Bratdouche
Since Palmer was drafted the Bengals have had only 1 Pro Bowl lineman; Big Willie. I think a person could reasonably argue Willie hit his prime early in Palmers career (04,5 and 6) and fell off quickly due to injuries. Since picking Palmer the Bengals have drafted 11 O-lineman, only 3 third round or higher: Steinbach, Whitmore and Smith. Only 4 of the 11 are still on our roster. Who else but the Bengals draft a ‘franchise’ quarterback and make no major effort to put/keep a good line in front of him. Before he went insane, Madden once said (this is not verbatim) A team lives or dies by the play of their line on both sides of the ball.
Look at Palmers performance in the 2nd half of the Pats game. Granted the Pats were playing a soft zone D for the most part. But with good protection (no real pass rush), receivers getting open (soft zone), up tempo game (the O actually getting to the line before there’s only 10 seconds left) and Brat not having to guess what the D is going to run(or Palmer just calling his own plays – never can tell with the helmet speaker)…. Palmer actually looked pretty good. Or you could say that we didn’t see all of the problems that we normally see during regular game situations. Sure some argue that was just pitch and catch in the 2nd half of that game. But you still have to have decent blocking, semi-accurate throwing, receivers getting open and catching the ball and decent plays called to play pitch and catch when there’s 8 defenders back in a zone.
I’m not arguing that Palmer is great (he’s looked really inept at times;) but doesn’t that 2nd half make some of you wonder what could be if all the components of our offense are working at the same time.
by GrizzlyRider on Sep 29, 2010 5:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Bratkowski's time with the Bengals should be over
The offense has scored 21 points or more just 9 times in the last 54 games. The offense has gotten worse than last year. I believe it would be to both parties advantage to release him after this year. Maybe he will do better with another team. I think this team needs someone new leading the offense. The discipline is horrendous.
"I gotta show em' how to eat right man, that's all...I got all five food groups. Pancakes, sausage-egg McMuffin, cinnamon roll, large orange juice... I just be juiced all day."
FIRE HIM NOW!!
49ers just cut ties with their OC.. if this is our year to win, FIRE BRAT NOW!
by 80%OFTHETIMEIMRIGHTEVERYTIME on Sep 28, 2010 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm no fan of Brat but
the 49er are 0-3. They are already out of the playoffs. The situation is entirely different. They are already planning for next year.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
Have you ever notice Brat consulting his "call this play in this given situation" sheet during the game?
Problem is, after all these years all the D-coordinators have the same sheet
by GrizzlyRider on Sep 29, 2010 5:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Lets not forget just how much an offensive coordinator can make a difference
Look at Jay Cutler this year…
Remember the Bears game last year?
That is what wil happen in week 4 or 5 this season and this time there will be no turning back.
Mark my words. I am in Carson’s corner 100% because few could have the success with the Rookies like he already has. Getting on point with TO and CHAD will happen any minute.
Bengals 2010. Road to the Superbowl
LET HIM RUN THE OFFENSE
LET PALMER RUN THE OFFENSE YOU WILL SEE SUCCESS DID WE FORGET ABOUT WHY THEY US THE CARDIAC CATS
FIRE BRATSUCKSKI
If the Bengals win by 3 TDs or more this weekend I will abandon my campaign. If they win by 10 or less I expect everyone on here to post FIRE BRATSUCKSKI next Monday. If they lose then I am going out to get velcro shoe, a mouth guard, & a bike helmet because the short bus will be picking me up Monday for the nut house! WHODEY
by Vman in Germany on Sep 29, 2010 8:35 AM EDT reply actions
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