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Palmer for QB

I believe that Palmer will lead us to our 3rd play-off appearance this year. I believe he will get at least one play-off win. I still hold out hope that we will win the Super bowl, but even if we do not I do not see a better QB who is available to lead us.

Star-divide

Since 1998, there have been 34 QBs taken in the first round.  Six of them have a better career rating than Palmer.  These are *Aaron Rodgers, Rivers, Peyton Manning, Roethlisberger, *Pennington and *Culpepper.   Thirteen are Busts because they did not last with their original teams nor are they starting anywhere else. These are Leaf,* McNown, #Akili Smith, Couch, Harrington, Carr, *Grossman, *Boller, *Leftwich, *Losman, Leinert, *Quinn, and Russell. One is #Palmer. The rest fall into three categories:  undetermined, potential franchise QBs, or they are getting a second chance with another team. I list undetermined as Bradford, *Tebow, Stafford, Sanchez, *Freeman, Alex Smith, and Vince Young. McNabb, *Campbell, Cutler, and Vick are getting a second chance, while *Flacco, Ryan, and Eli Manning seem to be franchise QBs who do not have a career rating higher than Palmer does. Incidentally, Plamer’s rating last year was better than Ryan’s but below Flacco and Manning. 

I admit there are other ways to get a QB. Of the 15 QB’s who had a better rating than Palmer last year, 7 were not drafted in the first round, but these QBs have a much lower success rate than the 16% that were drafted in the first round and were better than Palmer.  

Of the 9 who are better for their career or were better last year, 2 are out of the league, and 6 were unavailable when the Bengals drafted that year. The only QBs we missed out on that would still be on the team is Aaron Rodgers, a player that almost every team missed on, and Flacco, whose career rating is lower than Palmer’s, his rating this year is lower than Palmer’s and he threw 4 picks against Cincinnati.

Many people on this board are saying we should drop Palmer and draft someone who is better next year. This seems simple but as we see above QB’s who are better than Palmer are rare. Further, to drop Palmer would probably also mean we lose Marvin Lewis.  That puts drafting the QB of the future into the hands of one Mike Brown who brought us such winners as David Klinger and Akili Smith, who had the worst rating of the QBs drafted in the first round in the last 14 years. Even with a decent talent evaluator, there is only a 6% chance of drafting a QB who is better than Palmer is.  

Some would argue that Palmer is done. He is old, beat up and scared.

He is old by league standards but not by QB standards. Peyton Manning did not have his first season with a QB rating over 100 until his 7th season as a starter.  Palmer is currently in his 7th year as a starter. Further, there is a parallel in records a s a starter between Manning and Palmer Manning went 13-3 in his second year just as Palmer went 11-5. The Colts then slipped to 6-10 2 years later, as the Bengals went 4-11-1 3 years later. The Colts were 10-6 the next year then has had perennial 12 win seasons since. I am not saying that Palmer is Manning or that the Bengals are sure to mirror their success, but so far, even despite our offense we are very much in the play-off picture.

He has been beat up; however, I rewatched the preseason highlight footage from this year, and I do not think he is permanently damaged. Palmer was crisp. He threw the deep ball well to Owens against Philadelphia.  He was accurate on short passes. He completed 70% of his passes. Granted he was not pressured much but that is not completely under his control.

I do think that Palmer is scared, but I think that can be overcome. I believe that late last season Carson lost faith in his receivers except Chad. That led to poor throws and poor decisions. This year, I think Carson started ok against NE. Once NE dropped their defense a bit in the second half, Carson got into a rhythm and started hitting the open receiver. Against Baltimore, he felt pressure and his receivers began to drop the ball again. I believe he immediately reverted to his thought process at the end of last season. I believe this is something he has to work through, but I believe he will be back.

The big complaint against Palmer is that he has not won a play-off game. Since Palmer became a starter, 20 other QBs have won a play-off game. It is frustrating that 8 of those QB’s have entered the league since Palmer, especially since 4 of them were available to us. These are Flacco, who Carson Palmer regularly beats, Tony Romo, who just got his first win last season, Rex Grossman, who is available if we want him (any takers?) and David Garrard (who I believe is available for a straight up trade, any takers?) 

I believe that Palmer will lead us to our 3rd play-off appearance this year. I believe he will get at least one play-off win. I still hold out hope that we will win the Super bowl, but even if we do not I do not see a better QB who is available to lead us.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors.

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Yeah, nice post

This is my feelings about Carson.
 He’ll come around once they fix the route running, drop passes, Oline blocking and the damn play calling.
 I hope hell doesn’t freeze over first… Just kidding! It’ll get better, gradually. It just has too.

by WHYUS!! on Sep 29, 2010 6:50 PM EDT reply actions  

You know on top of all the worries

from playcalling, o-line, bad routes and dropped passes.. I don’t think we’ve given the conditions of the field in Carolina much thought either. Chad indicated that this really threw everyone off last Sunday. I’m hoping Carson will get better but like you said others around him have to get better as well.

by JamesShively on Sep 29, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was also real, grass-and-dirt field too.

None of this AstroTurf stuff, 100% authentic. I remember them showing a close up of how torn up the field was around halftime. It looked atrocious.

by Doc Scratch on Sep 29, 2010 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed there were a lot of recievers falling down. Plus when Chad lost his shoe he refused to put that foot down so his sock wouldn’t soak through.

It must be inordinately taxing to be such a boob. ~ The Brain

by jim0ijk on Sep 30, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good post.

Guys, what are the options? Name one better AVAILABLE replacement. Do you want Lil’ Bro out there? Do you think LeFevour would be better?

"Before I write I let my mind go blind and let the Lord do His thing. " -Tupac Shakur

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it looks like work." -Thomas Edison

by sexsalad on Sep 29, 2010 6:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Jordan Palmer

hopefully… essentially a Carson prototype, he would at least maintain a little chemistry with the recievers since he should have the same type of game and throwing style

by Bengal mayhem on Sep 29, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really?

Are you kidding? You really want to bench Carson to put in Jordan? You think that helps the team this year?

by JCompton41 on Sep 29, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

NNNOOOOOO

I thought the question was who would be the better alternative if (God forbid) Carson went down. I haven’t smoked crack in weeks….

by Bengal mayhem on Sep 29, 2010 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haha

I was saying to the people who want Carson to be benched or whatever that we don’t really have any option, through free agency or otherwise.

If, in some weird way, we could get a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady type QB over here I’d be fine with that, obviously.

"Before I write I let my mind go blind and let the Lord do His thing. " -Tupac Shakur

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it looks like work." -Thomas Edison

by sexsalad on Sep 29, 2010 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Remember the big debate on Peyton Manning vs Ryan Leaf?

I’d love to know which NFL analysts were arguing for Leaf….

by Bengal mayhem on Sep 29, 2010 6:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Amen

good post. My sentiments exactly.

"Ryan, Things in here don't react too well to bullets." - Marko Ramius

by TarZander on Sep 29, 2010 6:58 PM EDT reply actions  

My predictions on your "undetermined" QBs

Bradford – future All-Pro
Tebow – journeyman backup, will retire early and find a college coaching job
Stafford – will suffer the same fate as David Klinger. Maybe talented, but we’ll never know because he’ll be pulverized as a Lion until he fades away
Sanchez – set up for success with a strong defense and good coaching, will have similar success to Roethlisberger, but always be over-rated
Freeman – Never seen him play, but apparently off to a good start with the Bucs
Alex Smith – late bloomer, but will remain an adequate starter
Vince Young – will fall apart again this year and not be counted on anymore

by Bengal mayhem on Sep 29, 2010 7:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Mostly agree but time will tell

We will see Freeman in 2 weeks.

It must be inordinately taxing to be such a boob. ~ The Brain

by jim0ijk on Sep 29, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

My prediction

Bradford – inks a 20 million dollar deal with Frosted Flakes then promptly suffers and career ending injury.
Tebow – Bounces around from team to team for the next 15 years, never playing a snap, but everywhere he goes he continues to sell out jerseys.
Stafford – After 15 surgeries decides to just make himself bionic and leads his team to a Super Bowl Championship. The year after his win the NFL bans all bionic people, as well as people who look like 14 year olds in pads.
Sanchez – Somebody finally just runs him over with a truck because let’s face it, nobody should have a girlfriend that hot.
Freeman – After a 10 year career featuring 2 playoff appearances, 1 Pro Bowl, 90% of NFL fans still won’t know who this guy is.
Alex Smith – Will shatter the record for the number of times a player is on the cusp of being adequate.
Vince Young – Will finally move back to Texas – the only place where he will be remembered for the good things he did in football.

This is our year!

by Paul Cannon on Sep 29, 2010 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not gonna lie

had to look up “Freeman” just to find out who the hell he was.

by Bengal mayhem on Sep 29, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now that you brought up Sanchez's girlfriend somebody's gotta come through with the pics.

HOT DAMN

"Before I write I let my mind go blind and let the Lord do His thing. " -Tupac Shakur

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it looks like work." -Thomas Edison

by sexsalad on Sep 29, 2010 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow.

Is that a real woman??? Or a super hott cyborg come to enslave the men of this planet with her ridiculously good looks? Only time will tell.

by The Dealio on Sep 29, 2010 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good looks?

she’s got more than just good looks..

by WHYUS!! on Sep 30, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

This might actually be one of the longest

strings of conversation originating from one comment…

by Bengal mayhem on Sep 29, 2010 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not even close.

Some game threads over on Red Reporter can get messages boxes 1/4 of this size. It’s humorous.

by Doc Scratch on Sep 29, 2010 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow

Those actually look natural too….

by Throw the ball on Sep 30, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

No way.

She doesn’t look like she should be able to stand upright.

This is our year!

by Paul Cannon on Sep 30, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

*to

we need an edit button on comments

by Oregonbengalsfan on Sep 30, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1000000000000

if it were up to me she would never be standing

" I don't lie, I tell a different version of the truth."

by Purple City Middie on Oct 2, 2010 5:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wow.

That’s all I have to say.

"I really dig Hannibal. Hannibal had real guts. He rode elephants into Cartilage." - Mike Tyson

by morrison360 on Oct 2, 2010 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

This is a little more softcore but still a brilliant idea...

I would have her lay across the top of the bed and use her boobs as pillows at night. I’d sleep like a baby.

"Before I write I let my mind go blind and let the Lord do His thing. " -Tupac Shakur

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it looks like work." -Thomas Edison

by sexsalad on Oct 2, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

LMAO

I guess people will never stop giving me shit for my username.

"Before I write I let my mind go blind and let the Lord do His thing. " -Tupac Shakur

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it looks like work." -Thomas Edison

by sexsalad on Oct 2, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Great post

Whatever Carson does not do in the stat column he makes up for in leadership which equates to wins. When our Defense is on Carson knows how to win.

Bengals 2010. Road to the Superbowl

by bengals life on Sep 29, 2010 8:59 PM EDT reply actions  

As much as this post tries to look at the glass half full...

I don’t buy the “there’s nobody out there as a better option” argument. Nobody is saying to bench Palmer by the way. Some people, like me, are upset that Palmer is playing poorly. He is jeopardizing the team, and we are 2-1 in spite of him, not because of him. I don’t think he’s done as a Bengal, I DO believe he’ll get his mojo back, and I don’t think he’s old at all. He has a good 5 years left as a productive starter. What pisses me off is fans and coaches (Bratkowski and Lewis) who don’t acknowledge that Palmer is struggling. What pisses me off is people blaming everybody else except Palmer for our offensive woes. Yeah, we don’t have the best O-line out there but we’re not the worst. Palmer has had a bunch of throws without pressure that he’s missed. As far as receivers running wrong routes? We’ll never know. But I don’t think two great receivers such as Chad and TO are the ones to blame. Of course they are to blame when they drop the ball, but I don’t think they aren’t running crisp routes, they’re not rookies. A great example that shows me that Palmer is playing poorly is in his decisions. The last play of the 1st half of last weeks game was embarrassing to watch as a Bengal fan. Yeah, Roland couldn’t make it back on time and thats Roland’s fault, but it’s inexcusable to not throw it in the end zone or out of bounds without a time out left. Are you kidding me? Are you a rookie?

Of course we’re not going to find anybody RIGHT NOW that is better than him for us. But we need to start putting him in the hot seat, which is what many people like you AREN’T doing. You know what makes good teams among other things? Demanding fans. Fans who won’t take bullshit from anybody, not even their franchise QB. You know why Brat and Marvin aren’t talking bad about him? Because he makes 5 times more cash than both of them combined. And guess what my friends, money is power. The only person above Palmer is Mike Brown. And we all know he’s a douche.

START THINKING ABOUT THE FUTURE. And if Palmer comes back, then I’ll be the first one to suck his balls again. But till then, this guy, our 100 million dollar franchise QB is playing like a bust. He’s playing like a high school QB. And he better turn his game around quickly, because even if nobody wants to bust his chops about it right now, when we finish 6-10 and look like the Jacksonville Jaguars, we’ll be drafting a QB in the 1st round next year and his career will be over, just like that.

So Carson Palmer, my advice to you is to suck it up, grab your goddamn balls and start playing like we all know you can play. Like the freaking 1st round pick we saw when you took us to the playoffs in 05’.

by jimbasa on Sep 29, 2010 10:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Like every position should look for depth and to the future

Maybe it’s Dan Lefevour, maybe Palmer has 10 more years, maybe something else. We should look for Depth and for future starters, but we can improve more at LG, or Safety in the 1st round of next years draft.

It must be inordinately taxing to be such a boob. ~ The Brain

by jim0ijk on Sep 29, 2010 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let's break this down.

Because you take the cake for most negative person on this blog, by far.

He is jeopardizing the team, and we are 2-1 in spite of him, not because of him.

I’ll admit, half the reason that we are 2-1 is because he threw an interception, though the other half is also on special teams. We could be 3-0 right now if it weren’t for that, depending on how overtime would’ve played out. As for the other two games? I’ll give you the Panthers game, those two picks were digusting. But the Ravens game? That’s a tough defense. I didn’t believe Sanchez was anything special but he’s gone out and lit up the Patriots and the Dolphins since having such a horrible game against the Ravens. Palmer looking “average” against a good defense is much better than Palmer throwing four picks.

Take it as you will, but I doubt the team is winning “in spite” of Palmer. Not winning because of him, no, but not losing either.

What pisses me off is fans and coaches (Bratkowski and Lewis) who don’t acknowledge that Palmer is struggling. What pisses me off is people blaming everybody else except Palmer for our offensive woes. Yeah, we don’t have the best O-line out there but we’re not the worst.

I never said that Palmer looked like a tremendous QB out there. I just said I had faith in him to actually do good. I don’t live in denial, can’t speak for the Bengals coaches, they’re probably saying that just because the Bengals’ organization never comes out with anything controversial. Is it bad? Maybe, but is it also good?

Palmer hasn’t looked good, no, but I’m confident he’ll get his mojo back. We’re only heading into Week 4. The season isn’t even 1/4 of the way done yet and people have been bitching since Week 1. People look to blame everything, not sure what. All I know is the collective unit is struggling. It’s a team game, that means the whole team is sucking, not just one person or five people.

Palmer has had a bunch of throws without pressure that he’s missed.

Recent front-page article has him at six.

But I don’t think two great receivers such as Chad and TO are the ones to blame. Of course they are to blame when they drop the ball, but I don’t think they aren’t running crisp routes, they’re not rookies.

They’re also not perfect. AKA capable of making mistakes, such as running the wrong route. It happens, they’re human.

The last play of the 1st half of last weeks game was embarrassing to watch as a Bengal fan. Yeah, Roland couldn’t make it back on time and thats Roland’s fault, but it’s inexcusable to not throw it in the end zone or out of bounds without a time out left. Are you kidding me? Are you a rookie?

I scratched my head on this one too. Granted, had Cook not been an idiot and hit the snap count right, they would’ve had a time-out to use. Not sure why Brat called in that play. Did it look bad? Yeh, but it’s not just Palmer’s fault on that one. Again, 11 guys playing, not just one.

But we need to start putting him in the hot seat, which is what many people like you AREN’T doing.

I’ve always sat and wondered how many Bengals players go through the fanposts on cincyjungle.com in their daily lives, particularly Palmer. Then again, Ryan Matthews does play WoW…

START THINKING ABOUT THE FUTURE.

Why? Wasn’t this offseason a blatant sign that the Bengals are trying to win it now, not next year or the following year? If we draft a new QB, that’s it, good bye next two seasons, see you in the playoffs in 2013!

by Doc Scratch on Sep 29, 2010 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great Post

I think the main issues with his performance are communication related. The offense probably needs the same simplification the defense received after the New England loss. Too many option routes, late audibles, month-long huddles, and snap count misses have taken their toll.

MwWsA

by raclark11986 on Sep 29, 2010 10:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Palmer is our QB

Chad, T.O., Shipley, Caldwell, Cosby, and Simpson are our receivers.
Gresham, Kelly, and Coats are our TEs.
Benson, Scott, and Leonard are our RBs.
Roland, Williams, Cook, Livings, Whitworth, Smith, and Mathis are our linemen.

This is our offense. It may start with one man and it may end with one man but until all of them play like a team, it’s not going to get better. It’s not one man. It’s not another man. If one man sucks, they all sucks. It’s a team game and you are your weakest link.

by Doc Scratch on Sep 30, 2010 12:02 AM EDT reply actions  

Right on.

"I really dig Hannibal. Hannibal had real guts. He rode elephants into Cartilage." - Mike Tyson

by morrison360 on Oct 2, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

What is wrong with you people?

Its week 3! I’m sorry if Palmer isn’t carrying your fantasy team but the Bengals are 2-1. If we were 0-3 and he was leading the league in yards and TD’s who would you you be calling for his head?

by mikeames on Sep 30, 2010 12:58 AM EDT reply actions  

no

id be calling for zims head. because that would mean our defense was historically bad.

by ritalin on Sep 30, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

So what you are saying it that its not Carson's Fault at all

It must be either the Line or the Coaching. Amazing.

2010 - The Year of the Tiger.

by UpStateMike on Sep 30, 2010 4:15 PM EDT reply actions  

I am saying he has to regain his confidence

He has to do this. Maybe the line can help by blocking, the recievers by catching, the running backs by running and the coaches by coaching, but he ultimately is responsible for his play.

I am saying that even by last year’s rating of 83.3 it is more likely that he recovers than we find someone better through another route. I am saying that there is nothing from the preseason that indicates he is permanently physically damaged, so it is possible for him to recover. But ultimately he has to do this.

It must be inordinately taxing to be such a boob. ~ The Brain

by jim0ijk on Sep 30, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am not going to try to put works in Jim's mouth but the basic subtext I see is....

Palmer is our QB. He is the best QB on the team. He has proven in the past that he is a good QB. He is our only option. It is what it is and we need to make the best of it. It doesn’t make sense to me to demean and attack the very guy that we are depending on to win games for us. Many say he is having confidence problems. So what good does it do anyone, the team, Carson or us for that matter to do anything to undermine him.

It is kind of like a trainer telling his boxer after 3 rounds that he is just terrible and is going to go out and get the crap punched out of him. He might get the crap kicked out of him but diminishing him and undermining his confidence certainly doesn’t help matters.

Carson is aour QB. He has given us many prideful moments in the past. Maybe after the season a change may need to be made but just for now it makes sense to stand behind him. From a selfish viewpoint, there is just more potential profit in it and it is still a distinct possibility that he just might give all of his detractors a big ole s*itburger to eat before it is all over.

BTW we are 2-1 with him playing about as bad as he can. If he can even get halfway back to where he was we will win a lot of games.

"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"

by JUNGLEJOHN on Sep 30, 2010 11:32 PM EDT reply actions  

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