Most Overrated Players on the Bengals
I fully expect this post to get hammered due to the fact that its purpose is to go against the grain (not that I'm known for doing that...) by disagreeing with the seemingly popular hype of certain players on this team. So, I'll frame this into more of a question on why many of you regard these players are valuable. Consider it a challenge to validate your evaluations.
1) Domata Peko: For the life of me, I cannot figure out why everyone assumes he is our best defensive lineman. I have the feeling because he plays on the interior of the line which is hard to view, has the prototypical build of an all-pro DT, has long, flashy Samoan hair, and he's generally a well-liked guy in the community, people regard him as a stout defensive lineman who is our cog in the middle. But honestly, every time I focus on him, all I see is him tap-dancing with the offensive linemen without gaining any penetration. I can't even recall the last time I saw him in the backfield. In fact, going through highlights of him (notably during the Chargers game), I'll occassionally see him get completely blown off the line and out of the play by an OG. Seriously, can anyone show me a highlight of him blowing up the offensive line and disrupting a play in the backfield? Cause I don't see it - and don't tell me he's getting double-teamed. That doesn't happen on every play, and even the good DT/NTs in this league will fight through double teams.
2) Keith Rivers: Sometimes when I'm watching games, I like to keep a tally of how many times I see Rivers get blocked out of the way, miss a tackle, or shy away from one. It's actually quite entertaining. I think because he was a first rounder from USC and ended his rookie season before we really got a good glimpse of him, people automatically assumed he is legit. And since returning, many make excuses for him because he had his jaw broken. I could maybe see that in regards to him being tentative in hitting ball carriers, but not in his inability to shed blocks. I'll admit, he's pretty decent in coverage - and on a 3-4 defense, he might be well suited for the Farrior-type role where he mostly plays back in coverage. But on a 4-3, I am tired of seeing him get blasted out of the box.
3) Michael Johnson: He may have a decent future as a 3rd down specialist, but still not convinced he can be an every-down DE. I know it's cliche to claim he's too tall and lanky to play against the run - but still subscribe to it. Now, there was one play against the Ravens this last game where I actually saw him dominate Michael Oher by bull-rushing him back into the pocket and putting pressure on the QB (and I mention this primarily because I'm pissed off that Whitworth lost the probowl spot to him, most definitely because of a Sandra Bullock movie), though I think he had Oher off-guard and already moving backwards to pass-protect. I could still be convinced he will be a legitimate starter at DE, opposite of Dunlap, so I'd love to hear your critical thoughts on him, Cincyjungle.
4) Evan Mathis: For the last two years, I've been wondering why we don't see more of Evan Mathis. Then I saw him finally play against the Ravens this last game. My assessment is the next person to suggest that Mathis should be getting more playing time and possibly earn the starting job at LG next year needs to be shot chastised. I don't think I have ever seen an offensive lineman get dominated as badly as Evans did on Sunday. And it wasn't even against Ngata or Redding either. There were DE's throwing him back into the QB or RB. I was surprised to actually see him playing in the beginning of the game, but noticed he quickly came out, and justifiably so. Livings on the other hand is probably underrated, but still think we need to upgrade there. I am tired of seeing Whitworth dominate his guys just to watch the play go nowhere because the LG gains no ground.
5) Rey Maualuga: Sure, he shows flashes of greatness and athleticism, but he reminds me of Odell Thurman a lot in the fact I constantly see him out of position or hitting the wrong holes as he flies right by the ball-carrier. There's been a lot of talk about him shifting over to middle LB, but I am skeptical on it, just based on his intelligence - or seeming lack-there-of. There's a reason why aging Dhani has maintained his starting role at MLB and I believe it is because of what he has upstairs in contrast to Rey. There's also a reason why he fell to the second round as well...
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors.
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i like and dislike
Peko- disagree completely
Rivers- couldn’t agree more (but also think Dhani sucks and needs to go)
MJ- completely disagree
Evan Mathis- agree, but not so vehemently
Mualuga- aggree and disagree (think he needs to be in the middle to excel)
Benson- can’t believe you left him off!!!! IMO he’s the most overrated guy on our team.
We should also do a most underrated post….just a thought
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
haha, I have mixed feelings on Benson
he did some hard running yesterday that I wouldn’t expect from Scott. Not saying we should pay anything high for him, but I think we’ll take a little hit if he does leave.
I was thinking of doing an underrated one, but figured that would probably be double-tapping a lot of converstaions and future posts. IMO though, my underrated guys would be Coffman, Livings, Reggie Nelson, and Caldwell – though I imagine many will be singing their praises (with the exception of Livings) soon.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
Re: Peko
He’s a nose tackle, not a 3 technique. He isn’t supposed to be in the backfield, he’s supposed to occupy blockers and play two gaps. On passing downs he normally gets rotated out in favor of Sims or Geno.
I see guys like Hampton, Ngata, Redding, and WIlfork in the backfield constantly
which is why they are considered the top of their class. Just cause you’re filling gaps and occupying blockers doesn’t mean you can’t push them backwards into the QB or running holes. This is something I rarely see out of Peko which is why I’d like to see us potentially grab Fairley
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
Nobody's saying Peko's an outstanding DT though.
We just say he’s great at run-stopping which, in his right, he is. He’s not getting penetration, no one’s kidding themselves about that, that’s why he comes off during passing downs, but as peko94 said, he plays the gaps and occupies lanes which helps the run defense. He’s not pushing his guards back but simultaneously, they’re not pushing him back and opening a lane for the RB to go through.
agreed
I just don’t think he’s the unstoppable, line-crumbling, disruptive force in the backfield as our AFCN rivals have – who I feel many Bengal fans unjustly compare him to.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
lol
unfortunately offensive linemen weigh more than 205 lbs…
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
I don't think we're comparing him to Ngata, probably the best DLineman in the AFC, if not the NFL.
Hell, I don’t think I’ve seen anyone on this site say Peko’s as good as them. I still think he’s damn good as a run stopper, just a liability in the pass rush. He’s not as versatile as them, I think.
I was waiting for you to rub it in...
lol
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
Every team in the division has a player like him.
A guy who goes hard to the whistle and wants to destroy the other team. It’s about time we caught up.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
there's a thin line between guys like Ngata/Hampton and John Henderson
in terms of playing recklessly vs dirty. I really hope he will be a Ngata for us as opposed to a straight up thug like Henderson or Haynesworth. But either way, we need some bull rush up the middle (on both sides) otherwise we will continue to be out-manned by our AFCN opponents.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
Some agreement
I agree on Mathis. IMO, LG is the position on the team that could be most improved.
I completely disagree on MJ. FIrst, I think his press is mostly because of youth and he was projected to go very high in the draft before his senior season. I think that his play in place of Odom helped the defense come along at the end of the season.
Mildly agree on RIvers. He does a good job in a safety-like way in stopping runs that might have gone a long way, but I would like to see stops for losses.
I completely disagree on Peko. He does his job which is to take up space and I occansionally see him in pursuit of a QB. He just can’t catch any, but his job is not to chase them down, so much as not let people through his space.
Mildly agree on Rey. He makes plays and misses plays. He is not ready to be a MLB but is a decent SLB.
It must be inordinately taxing to be such a boob. ~ The Brain
Rumors are we are going to switch to a 3-4
I think we would get way more out of what we have in that scheme. Maybe they have been preparing to do it, that is why we have these guys.
MIKE BROWN STEP DOWN!!!
What rumors?
They must also be saying that Zimmer is going to get fired or that he’s going to be HC and hire a 3-4 DC. Zimmer WILL NOT run the 3-4.
Same old Cyanide, new look.
by Pardon_My_French on Jan 3, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
And ran it poorly
That’s how he ended up with the Bengals. If we switch to a 3-4 it will be management’s decision not his. He’s a 4-3 guy
Q: Are you going to essentially fire yourself and hire a general manager?
"I call them themes. They (fans and customers) like to talk about different themes when things don’t go well." -Mike Brown
Geoff Hobson reported a while back they were talking about switching to a 3-4 last year
and he mentioned the possibility of switching again the other day on Bengals.com.
Excuse the f**k out of me for mentioning anything.
MIKE BROWN STEP DOWN!!!
Seriously, what rumors?
Anything credible? I’d be interested in seeing this.
Same old Cyanide, new look.
by Pardon_My_French on Jan 3, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
Is it possible to have a descent conversation on here
without some know it all, who has probably never even played football, smart ass wanting to argue?
MIKE BROWN STEP DOWN!!!
I think they just want to know where you got that information from
i.e. provide a link.. I’m actually kind of interested myself because I haven’t heard anything credible suggesting this, other than speculation on this site.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
I apologize guys
I had just got home from the hospital. My wife is 6 months pregnant and she has kidney stones. This happened with our first child also and she got real sick and spent a lot of time in the hospital. She is in a lot of pain right now and I wasn’t in a good mood. I just took it all the wrong way.
As I said above it was brought up again in a recent Geoff Hobson article last week. My speculation was that with the personnel we have in place that seems geared toward a 3-4 that maybe they were just waiting to get all of the pieces in place before we made the switch.
Here is what Geoff Hobson wrote Dec 30, 2010 @ Bengals.com:
One of the options with the Bengals’ first pick could be a defensive end that might be able to play a 3-4. With the depth at linebacker there have been some musings about going to a base 3-4. They could line up at backer with Michael Johnson and Keith Rivers on the outside and Rey Maualuga and Roddrick Muckelroy on the inside with the 6-6, 285-pound Carlos Dunlap more than big enough to play left end.
Sorry, but I am not digging all the way back through earlier this year to find his other writing about Lewis and Zimmer talking about contemplating switching to the 3-4.
MIKE BROWN STEP DOWN!!!
sorry to hear about your wife
and sometimes, it can be difficult to state opinions on here without getting hammered personally or ridiculously
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
sorry about your wife as well, best wishes to her health moving forward
and i want to apologize if it seemed as though i was arguing….i constantly agree and disagree with many different folks on here and wasn’t intending to come off as a smart ass towards you. just trying to drum up some friendly debate, everyone’s entitled to their opinions, mine aren’t always right and neither are anyone elses…
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
nailed it..
I like Peko, but then I watch the game and see him get pushed around at about a 4:1 ratio to the times he seems effective and wonder why. Especially when you consider how much the Bengals are paying him.
Rivers isn’t as good as Brandon Johnson, and I’m not a huge BJ fan. er.. wait..
Michael Johnson flashes potential now and then, but I’m tired of getting worked up over guys that sometimes flash potential but can’t be consistent.
Mathis was surprisingly not terrible his first season with lots of playing time, compared to what you’d expect of a career practice squad guy suddenly thrust into a starting role, but that doesn’t mean he’s a quality starter. He’s just not as bad as we might have feared. I think between Whitworth, Collins, Cook, and maybe Andre Smith there’s a pretty solid group of guys that just need one more quality starter to gel into a solid line. Yes, I know I listed 3 tackles, but one can move to guard.
Maualuga is another guy I want to really like, but he just doesn’t produce. Especially with all the whining on here about how he should be the MLB instead of Dhani Jones, meanwhile DJ is a tackling machine and Maualuga only rarely shows effectiveness.
And can we please quit with the stupid 3-4 talk? Every single season…eesh
no pun intended on the BJ reference, right?
;-)
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
I think you could make a good case about all of those guys being overrated EXCEPT...
Michael Johnson. The guy is just a playmaker when he’s playing D Line.
Take the Ravens game. Not only did he record a sack against Flacco, he also had 2 QB pressures (I don’t know if the sack is included in that stat), lead the team in tackles, and recorded one tackle for loss. If you’re looking for players to get behind the line of scrimmage and make plays, look no further than MJ.
And I completely disagree about him being bad against the run. If that were true, Ray Rice, Mendenhall, or Hillis would have all gone over 100 yards against the Bengals in the last three games.
This is our year!
fair enough
I haven’t written him off yet, but would like to see more of it before my mind is made up that he will be the future lynchpin of our d-line.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
I hope he gets a chance to be the full time starter next year
If we bring in a DE (Bowers) that might be the beginning of the end of his tenure as a Bengal.
This is our year!
Not to mention his stop of Ryan Matthews on 3rd and goal at the 1
Clutch play
Q: Are you going to essentially fire yourself and hire a general manager?
"I call them themes. They (fans and customers) like to talk about different themes when things don’t go well." -Mike Brown
Chad
Is THE MOST OVERRATED PLAYER. Other than that, I partially agree with Blue Steel’s assessments. I agree that these guys are overhyped, but there are a couple of things that need to be taken into consideration:
1.) Define “overrated” in terms of these players. Dominant, they are not, but I’d say they’re at least solid.
2.) One also must consider the element of “emotional leadership”. I think that Peko falls under that category. Also Zimmer seems to really like him as a player, so I’m good with nine-four.
3.) The last, and most important thing that we must realize is that both Rey AND MJ are or have been playing unnatural positions for them. MJ is not a LB. Rey is not a SAM. This has greatly hindered their development, in my opinion.
in my mind, Chad (and TO) is gone
so he doesn’t matter anymore – nor do I even want to think about him.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
Fine...
Than the most overrated player award goes to Robert Geathers, by default.
by Anthony Cosenza on Jan 3, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
My definition of "Overrated"
primarily is based on most cincyjungle bloggers’ opinions from this blogsite. And ultimately boils down to what many think needs improvement – in contrast to what I feel really is where we are weak at. I think our three weakest areas are DT, OG, and LB. I have listed Peko at number one because I never hear anyone criticize him – or at least, I’ve really only heard positive assumptions that he is solid, when I think otherwise. He may be decent, but not nearly the dominating presence our AFCN rivals have who many on this site unjustly compare him to. Rivers is another guy I rarely hear negative feedback on, who I feel is a glaring weakness.
Geathers: maybe to the average fan is overrated, but on this site, I think it’s a fair assumption that most are aware he was a one-year wonder who is not nearly worth his salary.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
Seriously wondering where you see these comparisons of Peko to Ngata, Hampton, and Rodgers.
Can you pull them up? I’m intrigued. o:
well, maybe not putting him on the same level
but close. For instance whenever there’s talk of switching to a 3-4, there’s always a crowd who compare Peko’s height/weight to Hampton, as if he can be just as effective – which to me is ridiculous. And in general, I just don’t feel Peko is really a standout lineman. Adequate, but not exceptional.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
and no, I'm not going to try and dig through endless threads to pull out comments
lol
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
As expected Benson is my most overrated
Giving the ball to a back over 300 times who fumbled it as many times as he scored touchdowns (7)??
Just 2 runs for 20 yds or more ?? His average yardage is the worst for any back getting over 200 carries at 3.49 and although he runs hard he is one dimensional and hurt us way too many times. He averaged around 2.4 yds a carry for 5 of the last 7 games.
The O-Line excuses don’t bode well as Scott averaged 5.0 a carry with no fumbles with the same exact personel.
Bengals 2010. Road 2 The Toilet Bowl.
Paul Brown Stadium "The Home of the 2nd down 1yd Run" +
"More blue lines than google earth"
Benson
Can’t believe I forgot him… guess his impressive 2.0 ypc lately was just that forgetful.
by Throw the ball on Jan 4, 2011 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
he also had another 1000 yard season
besides, I don’t think most on this site are high on him anymore, so I didn’t consider him overrated.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
Ocho's gone, no one really is interested.
Most people here realize Odom sucks. Outside, yeh, legitimate claim, but here, nah.
I’d say Palmer’s a bit underrated, actually. He’s not as done as people outside our fanbase think he is, and people here just hate him enough to cut ties. I’d say Palmer’s fine.
Benson’s way overrated this year. Just a question of what led to his downfall—himself, the lack of a fullback, or the OLine?
I mean, people constantly have to remind people of the difference between good and great when they talk about Palmer.
Just so people know that they don’t think he’s top-tier.
there's such a wide spectrum of opinions on Palmer
I didn’t even want to touch him on this post
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
Keith Rivers is exactly what we thought he would be, why do people suddenly expect more?
We knew when we drafted Rivers that…
He couldn’t shed blocks
He wasn’t very physical at the point of attack
He wont get many sacks
He wont get many interceptions
But he’s a smart player
Good tackler
Great athlete for a LB
Remember how Cincy’s LB corps was before they drafted Rivers? He was exactly what we needed. Be happy with him.
Forget where a player was drafted. It doesnt matter as long as you don’t draft a complete bust. Which Keith Rivers is not. He has fulfilled his potential
www.fantasydaddy.com
the LB's I remember before Rivers were
Thurman, Pollack, Spikes, Miller, Landon, Webster, Simmons, Hardy, Jeanty — all solid players against the point of attack.
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.

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