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Around SBN: On Hazards And Hulks And Tigers, Oh My!

Mike Brown Press Conference With Marvin Lewis Didn't Win Any Fans

Two schools exist regarding the reaction of the Bengals hiring Marvin Lewis right now. There's those that simply won't be happy with Marvin Lewis, citing historically supporting arguments, such as Lewis' 60-69-1 record and no playoff wins in eight seasons. On the other hand, there are those that took Lewis' reported demands of improving the team's basic infrastructure as a sign that the team will finally move in the right direction towards building a foundation for sustaining a winner. And most of those people acknowledge that any step towards the right direction will take time.

There's a reason Marvin Lewis criticisms have surfaced. Clock management is questioned, especially the use of timeouts, often leading to situations in which the offense desperately needed those timeouts late in the game. Lewis' challenges is another area of contention. In the first five seasons of Lewis' tenure as Bengals head coach, he successfully overturned 25% of his challenges (9/36). In the past three seasons, Lewis' success rate on challenges increased to 63.6%.

  Challenges Overturned Success
2010 8 4 50%
2009 7 4 57.1%
2008 7 6 85.7%
2007 13 3 23.1%
2006 8 2 25.0%
2005 5 1 20.0%
2004 5 2 40.0%
2003 5 1 20.0%

However, there are reasons why fans want Lewis to stay. Such as Lewis being the head coach of the most competitive Bengals teams during Mike Brown's ownership. Lewis is also the only head coach that's taken the Bengals to the playoffs, posting multiple winning seasons during Mike Brown's sidious empire. The greater enthusiasm for Lewis' return surrounds the head coach's demand that the team integrate the most basic infrastructure components that most NFL teams have already integrated. Lewis just wants an even playing field. His return gives Bengals fans the sense that changes are coming, although exactly what those changes are is cryptic and unknown.

After reading through Marvin Lewis' vague and colorless press conference with Mike Brown announcing his new contract, Joe Reedy writes that "when it comes to football matters and philosophy, it appears Lewis will be given greater autonomy, from discipline to deciding who will be inactive on gamedays." Now, if you're like me and asking, "Marvin didn't make THAT decision in the first place?" then I'm just at as speechless a you.

Yet, Tuesday's press conference announcing Lewis' two-year contract was a way for the Bengals to bring fans back into the fold, imploring patience by committing to the ideas of what fans believe will make this franchise successful in the future -- and that first step is becoming a team that's built like other NFL teams. There's no way that the Bengals could possibly think that fans would dive head first into a zombie state of fanatics. Yet, for fans to expect black and white solutions from an owner that keeps you at arm's length, you're not getting them.

Did they win you? No. Mike Brown sat beside Marvin Lewis, in which Dave Lapham said they looked "like they have just consumed a crap sandwich", losing you, the fans at the exact moment that the franchise President could have won you for a second-wind, a new start. And yes, we agree that Lapham should call it a turd sandwich.

When asked if Marvin Lewis has more control over personnel issues, Lewis said:

"I don’t know where that comes from, because I don’t know if I’ve sat down here and ever said that (that he less than unsatisfied with control over personnel). People keep putting that out there. I have a lot of input in our personnel. It’s Mike’s ultimate say-so."

No change. Alright. Fine. None of us expected Brown to relinquish control over personnel decisions.

When asked if the team will build an indoor practice facility, Mike Brown said:

"Marvin has a desire to have a practice facility. I have a desire, but probably not as keen... Right now, we’re faced with major issues in the National Football League, and those are at the front of our agenda. When we get through that, then we’ll have time to consider this issue."

When asked if he can chew bubble gum and walk to his office, he couldn't speak because, well, he had just put a stick of bubble gum in his mouth. In other words, no indoor practice facility and the Bengals will just blame the CBA for an extended delay of building the facility to the point that Marvin Lewis will most likely leave.

When asked if there were changes planned for the scouting and personnel departments, Brown said.

"The scouting thing is another criticism that rises up when we don’t do well. If you look at our record on scouting over the last 10 years, we rank 10th for the number of games played by players we drafted."

Both Brown and Lewis did confirm that there's going to changes with the coaches. Whether or not Lewis has autonomy on those coaching decisions, or he was simply providing Brown with a list of coaches he wants to replace in order for him to remain, is unknown. And the greater question is, which coach? If it's Bob Bratkowski, fans will finance a Marvin Lewis statue, depicting him wearing a toga on Fountain Square. If it's not Bratkowski, then man will devolve into brutal neanderthals with clubs, beating each other over the head because that's all we know.

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Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Jan 5, 2011 10:31 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

that's my reaction every time I hear Mike Brown speak

Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.

by Blue Steel on Jan 5, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

If Brat's not gone I am.

plain and simple.

Oh, and if Mike Brown is deciding who plays/sits on game day…..well i honestly don’t know what to say about that other than its simply disgusting that ANYONE would coach for him

The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day

by TruWhoDey on Jan 5, 2011 10:49 AM EST reply actions  

I think he knows this.

He wants butts in the seats. Firing Brat would get him probably a few hundred extra season tickets sold. The people who pay attention to this team know that this is the difference between an entertaining winner and a banal 6-10 team (4-12 with TOcho)

Same old Cyanide, new look.

by Pardon_My_French on Jan 5, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm kind of torn on Lewis

I don’t think he sucks, but I don’t think he is a particularly good HC either. That said, with the threat of a lockout looming, it probably makes sense to keep him on board another year or two.

I do hope we go a different direction at OC though. Bring in somebody that is young and dynamic, and that can infuse some life into the offense.

As for the draft, and this has been my position for several weeks now, I think we have to take AJ Green in the first if he is available. I’m sorry, but a starting WR core of Simpson, Caldwell, and Shipley doesn’t scare anybody. I’m still not convinced Simpson nor Caldwell need to be starting, but if we let TO walk, and release/trade Ocho, we need more than Simpson/Caldwell to have a threat on offense. Drafting Green allows Simpson OR Caldwell to play opposite him, and Shipley to stay in the slot. Coupled with Gresham, that is a lot of good, young talent. I just think Green is too good to pass on. The comparison to Calvin and Andre Johnson, or Randy Moss…..that is the type of player we rarely have gotten a chance to draft.

So I’d go Green in the first round, and look to find a DE/OLB in round 2. We won’t get a Bowers that low, but there is a TON of this type of talent in the draft. Should be some decent safeties in the 3rd round.

by Stanley1 on Jan 5, 2011 10:58 AM EST reply actions  

i agree on AJ Green

with our current WR ?‘s and people calling him a faster/stronger Randy Moss, I don’t see how you pass on him (especially when we have 8-10 D linemen already on the roster. I know we coudl improve D-line, but i don’t think MB gives up on Odom or Geathers yet…Frostee- see ya later (although i don’t like the move) Leaves us w/ Sims, Peko, Geathers, Odom, Tank, MJ, Atkins, Dunlap, Fanene…..i like that and more importantly i think MB likes it. No O-line worth a 4th overall and no QB other than Luck…..I’d say we get either Pistol Patrick Peterson or AJ Green monster @ the 4th overall

The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day

by TruWhoDey on Jan 5, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

I go D in the first and pick up the best WR available in the second.

A guy like Blackmun out of OK State or Floyd out of ND is liable to slip into the early second.

by Grizzlyfox on Jan 5, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Hmm.....

No way Blackmon slips to the second. He is projected nearly as high as Green and Jones.

I don’t know about Floyd, but isn’t he more of a slot type? I think we’re okay in that department with Shipley/Caldwell, and even Simpson. We need an outside, #1 receiver, and you won’t find that in the second round. Those guys go early, typically. Green is also a good character guy, I think. That doesn’t hurt.

by Stanley1 on Jan 5, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

we've invested three years into a second round and third round receiver

who are starting to show value. Why waste another high draft pick on a reciever instead of rebuilding the interiors of our lines – which is our weakest spot? Give Palmer more time and confidence to throw and whatever receivers we have will put up big numbers (as showcased the last two games).

Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.

by Blue Steel on Jan 5, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

MIKE BROWN STEP DOWN!!!

by D-Day77 on Jan 5, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Because there is no guarantee

That Simpson and Caldwell EVER become starter worthy on a good team. I’m sorry, but a couple of good games, late in the season, don’t mean much. They don’t. If you can see Cincy making the playoffs starting those two guys, fine. I don’t.

And we cannot rebuild the oline through our #4 pick. Nobody, not a single olineman, even close to worthy of that pick. Not to mention, we still have Andre Smith making a lot of money from a high 1st round pick. Wasting 2 of 3 first rounders on olinemen is dumb.

by Stanley1 on Jan 5, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

do you see us making the playoffs with inadequate-average guards and DT's?

I don’t. that is a glaring weakness from my perspective.

Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.

by Blue Steel on Jan 5, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I certainly don't see

our DT’s at being inadequate. And again, what offensive linemen can we justify taking with a top 5 pick? None. There will be some decent linemen available in rounds 2, 3, later, and even in FA.

I say all this, but if we keep Ocho, Green is probably off the table.

If the team wants to improve the lines, do it later in the draft, or via FA. You cannot find players like Green later in the draft, or via FA.

by Stanley1 on Jan 5, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Peko is overrated in my opinion and Sims/Tank are below par

Atkins is superior on third down situations, but we have no legitimate dominant forces inside to break down offensive lines. When was the last time you saw Peko blowing up linemen into the backfield and disrupting plays?

The answer to this, I believe, is Fairley. Then get an OG in either the second or third round.

Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.

by Blue Steel on Jan 5, 2011 6:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Drafting that way.....

Pretty much requires that we keep Ocho, Benson, Palmer, JJ, and a host of other FA’s. OR…..that we go sign replacements on the FA market. No way ownership wants to keep increasing payroll. The easiest way to not increase payroll, at this time, is to draft replacement players for some of the easier to move vets that have big salaries.

by Stanley1 on Jan 6, 2011 9:58 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm easy

I would be fine with Fairley, Green, Bowers, Peterson or Quinn.

I love the idea of taking Green since I agree that depth within our WR group is thin and I’m not sure about playmaking ability but at the same time, if we don’t get him and we take one of those on defense then Michael Floyd in rd 2, we’re still in good shape.

by Mexal on Jan 5, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Question w/ Floyd is, do you feel lucky?

I can see him slipping b/c of the overall talent of the WR class, but that’s the only reason. Also at this point if all the top WR are off the board, wouldn’t mind seeing a RB pick. Might be too early, but probably should draft 2 or draft 1 and sign 1, unless if the plan is to bring back Benson.

by Grizzlyfox on Jan 5, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't know

I’d also love to see an OL pick here. If all we picked was OL and DL, I’d be a very happy fan.

by Mexal on Jan 5, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions  

RB

I wouldn’t mind it either, but this is a really week RB class. Not sure there will be a better pick than our current backup (I completely blanked on the name) available in round two.

by Stanley1 on Jan 5, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Ask yourself this.....

Is it easier to sign and/or draft at a lower position in the draft a) a bona-fide, #1 receiver, or b) help in the pass rush on the DL?

Seems to me you can just about always get DL help through FA, or lower in the draft. Those WR’s that dominate the league on the outside, we cannot afford the few that might reach FA, and they are much harder to identify lower in the draft.

by Stanley1 on Jan 5, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't feel well

"When you chart (the plays) and see where it broke down there was no common theme to it." - Bob Bratkowski

by featherman on Jan 5, 2011 11:12 AM EST reply actions  

Bengal Poisoning

"When you chart (the plays) and see where it broke down there was no common theme to it." - Bob Bratkowski

by featherman on Jan 5, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Did anyone honestly expect anything different?

We have no idea what Lewis wanted. Everything was speculation. So we have no idea what Lewis gained from the negotiations.

And seriously, we’ve sat through enough press conferences with Lewis and Brown to know that we’d learn nothing from them.

by Mexal on Jan 5, 2011 11:17 AM EST reply actions  

I expected...

A little less conversation, a little more action

The two boys signed their deal yesterday. It suited both parties at where they are. Good luck to them. It will be judged, I suppose, more in results than words (which we’ve heard enough of in 2011). Maybe everyone needs a little space to digest 2010 and find the right way for 2011. If ML decides that this is with the same coaches and players as 2010 who got him into the position he is in (4-12, and deservedly so), then shame on him. He’s as much the fool as the guy paying his checks.

by wiseking on Jan 5, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

side note: i love that song

The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day

by TruWhoDey on Jan 5, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Doing my best

to put some sort of positive slant on the last 24 hours!
This seems a good place to start.

by wiseking on Jan 5, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Might sound crazy but.......

According to mike and mike this morning Ocho will be back for his final year as a bengal, how true this is i’m not sure. My thought though is why not try to trade him for Claussen or Kolb to usher in the next qb after carson. Then take Green at 4 , that would give a good offensive nucleus of young talent for the next several years.

by bwilly on Jan 5, 2011 12:22 PM EST reply actions  

I love your discreet Star Wars references

:-)

Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.

by Blue Steel on Jan 5, 2011 12:59 PM EST reply actions  

" I for one, welcome our new Buffalo overlords. " - Whokebe

by palewook on Jan 5, 2011 1:04 PM EST reply actions  

Perfect!!!

Couldn’t be said any better!!

MIKE BROWN STEP DOWN!!!

by D-Day77 on Jan 5, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Its going to be a long offseason

Last year I couldn’t wait for the season to start, feeling the changes in personell were very positive and that Zimmers Defense would be top 5. Well. That didn’t work out so well, did it?

Now, this initial press conference reeks of Marvin cowering under the watchful eye of Mikey Baloney-breath Brown.

Where’s the Marvin that was gonna walk if he didn’t get actual head coach power and an indoor practice facility?

Then they talk about discipline in the same breath as we are going to keep Ocho and they don’t know what the work “option” means.

Great Googley Moogley!

2010 - The Year of the LOLCats.

by UpStateMike on Jan 5, 2011 1:09 PM EST reply actions  

I don't agree

While I do think he gave the impression of cowering I do think he held firm on many issue. There is plenty of talk of places Marvin could have went. I have heard rumors about PitT. (HC) ,Houston ,Carolina and the 49er’s. (DC). I would bet him getting a new job would not have been a problem.

I tend to think ,while giving in o some issues, he stood firm on many others. A change for the good is better than no change at all.

"Next season will be better" circa 1990

by Yarin on Jan 5, 2011 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

You have to be pimpin'

to come in with 4 wins and say that if this list of things isn’t done; then I am leaving.

MIKE BROWN STEP DOWN!!!

by D-Day77 on Jan 5, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I must be one of the few people who were ok with yesterday’s press conference… up to a point. I was expecting a short announcement on Marvin’s future, and nothing much more. We really didn’t get much more. I’m hoping that they’re going to do this in incremental stages – start with HC, sort out coordinators and assistants and then focus on personel. And, so soon after the end of the season, I’m expecting news on these last two stages in the next few days.

What did perplex me yesterday was the confrontational atmosphere. Surely the news that Marvin was staying would be a celebratory, happy announcement, but MB especially had a face like trying to shit out cactus. I’m fairly new to this level of Bengaldom so this may be par for the course for MB, but it kind of shocked me. I managed to get a question of on Joe Reedy’s live chat earlier today, and he confirmed the atmosphere in the room really was that bad.

That really perplexed me. As did MB’s Reggie Nelson argument and draft stats. The plain fact of the matter is, and someone else mentioned it earlier, that we’ve been a losing team, more or less, for 20 years. That stat shoots any stat down.

by thesaddler on Jan 5, 2011 2:04 PM EST reply actions  

What I gathered from the press conference...

Was that this perception that all of these demands Marvin is going to get in order to stay around isn’t what is really going on. Mike Brown made it pretty clear that Marvin already called the shots over coaching and personnel, so I don’t understand where everyone is getting this idea that Lewis has no control, and if he gets extended everything is going to be great. It looks to me as if nothing is going to change, it’s going to be more of the same, and at best we may get a new offensive coordinator. They will probably promote from within, and it will end up being the same system we have been running. I hope that I am wrong, but I didn’t see anything that made me optimistic. The whole thing was very shady and very vague.

MIKE BROWN STEP DOWN!!!

by D-Day77 on Jan 5, 2011 2:07 PM EST reply actions  

I've filed for divorce

Sorry Bengals. Under the no-fault divorce laws, I’ve decided to file for divorce from the Bengals for neglect and abuse. After 30 years, I’ve had it. I’ve met a great gal, the New Orleans Saints and we’ve decided on a fall wedding. She’s great…classy, professional and a winner. She has a great family and has a great reputation in the community. Putting lipstick on a pig just doesn’t cut it anymore Bengals. How much neglect and abuse can a guy take? Well, this guy has moved on. B’bye Bengals.

by Who dey in LA on Jan 5, 2011 6:56 PM EST reply actions  

Now honestly, the funniest part of this post was where he became a Saints fan.

Reason why they were known as the ’Aints. 3 winning seasons, 2 playoff appearances from 1993-2009. Seeing as how the Bengals only had 1 winning season and one playoff appearance in that time period, it technically is a step up.

by Grizzlyfox on Jan 5, 2011 8:03 PM EST up reply actions  

So....

Are you gonna call yourself “Who Dat in LA” now?

2011 and beyond. Only one thing came true on the last wishlist.
This year's wishlist
1. Bengals win Super Bowl (Something I hope for every year)
2. Reds win the World Series(or at least a playoff game)
3. Ohio State Wins a Big 10 title
4. Cavaliers actually finish with a winning record
5. Wings win the Cup

by Danimal, Destroyer of Worlds on Jan 6, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

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