Comparing Andy Dalton's First Five Games To Carson Palmer

by Josh Kirkendall on Oct 10, 2011 10:43 AM EDT in Stats

JACKSONVILLE, FL - OCTOBER 09: Quarterback Andy Dalton #14 of the the Cincinnati Bengals sets for play against the Jacksonville Jaguars October 9, 2011 at EverBank Field in Jacksonville, Florida. The Bengals won 30 - 20. (Photo by Al Messerschmidt/Getty Images)

Former first overall pick during the 2003 NFL Draft, Carson Palmer elected to sit out the season in a threatened retirement state, forcing the team to select TCU quarterback Andy Dalton in the second round of the 2011 NFL Draft. A quick disclaimer of things. The comparison between Palmer and Dalton is nothing more than vague curiosity on my part; in truth it has nothing to do anything, save for the fact that based on how events played out, it may have actually benefited the Bengals in more ways than one. Not only is Andy Dalton as much a leader in the huddle as any quarterback we've seen, he's helping the Bengals win games by putting the burdens on his shoulders and engineering wins. After Cincinnati's 30-20 win over Jacksonville, Dalton said:

"That's the one thing that this team does. We just need to put ourselves in position in the fourth quarter to win the game. We were able to do that. We didn't worry what happened early on in the game. We just took care of what we had to do and were able to get the win."

Through five games this year, the Bengals have unexpectedly won three games this year and an argument could be made for a 4-1 start; for the more bold, an undefeated 5-0 season. And of the two games they lost, Cincinnati fell short within a possession of winning those respective games. Additionally Cincinnati has come from behind on the shoulder of a rookie quarterback that shouldn't be this mature yet to disregard early mistakes, strong enough to lead the team with late wins.

That being said, Dalton's first five career NFL games are well ahead of Carson Palmer's rookie season virtually across the board.

Comparing both quarterback's first five career NFL games
	CMP	ATT	Pct.	YRD	TD	INT	Rating
Andy Dalton	93	157	59.2%	1,047	6	5	78.7
Carson Palmer	104	190	56.7%	1,023	4	8	59.6

The interesting point is that Palmer developed during his rookie year on the bench, watching Jon Kitna lead the Bengals to an 8-8 season. Due to circumstances over the offseason and during the NFL lockout, Dalton was forced to become the team's first rookie quarterback to start Cincinnati's first game of the year since Greg Cook in 1969.

The Bengals went 1-4 during Palmer's first five starts in 2004 with three losses by more than a touchdown. In fairness to Palmer in that regard, Cincinnati's defense was nowhere near the level of the 2011 squad, allowing Dalton to develop without being forced to score 30 points.

Now for those of us that ask how much better the Bengals would be with Carson Palmer at quarterback (and you know that those exist), let's compare Dalton's first five to Palmer's final five NFL games in his career when the Bengals finished the 2010 season winning two of their final five games.

Comparing Dalton's first five against Palmer's final five NFL games
	CMP	ATT	Pct.	YRD	TD	INT	Rating
Andy Dalton	93	157	59.2%	1,047	6	5	78.7
Carson Palmer	105	154	68.2%	1,210	7	5	93.3

In truth this is all meaningless; just a vague curiosity on my part, showing that Dalton's career is starting just as well as Palmer's did in 2004 with one exception: Cincinnati is 3-2 this year whereas the Bengals only won one of five during Palmer's first five. Not that it's a direct correlation based on the quarterback (we're not factoring defense, offensive play-calling, etc..), but it's interesting nonetheless.

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Comments

One thing

I noticed about Dalton…every game I’ve watched this year he has come out over throwing his recievers. It has happened in every game, EXCEPT week 5. For whatever reason the first series of the game he would wing it 5 yards over the head of his receiver, but he seemed more confident and poised this week. He is really getting into a comfort zone.

by Ochocinco on Oct 10, 2011 10:53 AM EDT reply actions

Not only is Dalton playing well...

…but he’s not handicapped with Bob Bratkowski. It’s amazing what you can do with a little creativity on offense. I loved the shifts and movement I saw on Sunday— you’d never see that in our prior offense. Can only imagine more of it is on the way as the rookies mature.

That said, I think they’re still going to miss Shipley this year. There were a couple of 3rd and mediums that just begged for him to run a quick hook in the middle.

by MightyRanger on Oct 10, 2011 10:59 AM EDT reply actions

Haha, too true!

I think there was one play where we lined up with two fullbacks, one of them was Simpson. I had no idea what we were doing, then we broke the play, re-aligned up in a more conventional formation. I can’t remember what the result of that play was, though…

And yes, Shipley is a big loss. :(
I just hope he’ll make a full recovery and be ready to go for 2012. Another great draft class (making four in a row – yes, I cound the ’09 class as pretty good) would put us in an awesome position (and with a still very young team).

by Aether on Oct 10, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions

The aj green td playcall was amazing. The routes our wrs ran were crazy.

by quickslant on Oct 10, 2011 12:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

although

those routes requires awesome pass blocking, the play took a while to develop, it seemed.

by steveinaz on Oct 10, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions

In fairness to Palmer

We also did not have the #1 ranked defense in the NFL during his 1st season as a starter. Much could be said that if not for our defense we probably would not have won any games thus far in the season.
Dalton is coming along at a steady pace. He still needs to avoid that big INt or two he seems to have every game, as well as the 2-3 passes every game that could have been picked off. I love this kids heart and the way he leads the team. Excited to watch him play.

"Next season will be better" circa 1990

by Yarin on Oct 10, 2011 11:31 AM EDT reply actions

Didn't I say that? :)

The Bengals went 1-4 during Palmer’s first five starts in 2004 with three losses by more than a touchdown. In fairness to Palmer in that regard, Cincinnati’s defense was nowhere near the level of the 2011 squad, allowing Dalton to develop without being forced to score 30 points.

Managing Editor at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.

by Josh Kirkendall on Oct 10, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions

I guess I should have read the full story.

LMAO.. I just got busted.

"Next season will be better" circa 1990

by Yarin on Oct 10, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Hehe.

Managing Editor at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.

by Josh Kirkendall on Oct 10, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions

So True, Our D was Horrible when CP9 Came in Also The OC was Bratkowski

by Touhue Cha on Oct 10, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm so glad Palmer is gone.

I think it’s fair to expect all the Palmer lovers (past and present) to be extremely ashamed of rooting for Palmer in his last couple of seasons.

What do you do when there's no way out? Find a way to get deeper in it.

by jimbasa on Oct 10, 2011 11:53 AM EDT reply actions

Not ashamed at all.

Please, do tell me which were the clearly better options?

"Suck for Luck"? Forget that
2010 was "Schemin’ for Green and Faultin’ for Dalton."

by supergrover on Oct 10, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions

Jordan

"Suck for Luck"? Forget that
2010 was "Schemin’ for Green and Faultin’ for Dalton."

by supergrover on Oct 10, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions

Doesn't have to come down to what are the better options.

Palmer supporters during the last couple of seasons (including you maybe) were adamant in defending his play when it was clear that his play was….how do I put it……subpar. Simple case of denial.

What do you do when there's no way out? Find a way to get deeper in it.

by jimbasa on Oct 10, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions

orrrr...

they were adamant that it wasn’t just Palmer that was to blame. I remember people putting him to blame and excusing alligator arm receivers who didn’t run routes.

"Suck for Luck"? Forget that
2010 was "Schemin’ for Green and Faultin’ for Dalton."

by supergrover on Oct 10, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions

(see Ocho now)

Not that I was the only one, but see ocho now and his production with arguably the best QB in the league. Carson did decline though..

by WHYUS!! on Oct 10, 2011 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions

and also forgot to

blame suck ass Brat too..

by WHYUS!! on Oct 10, 2011 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions

If you...

miss those frustratingly high passes and awe-inspiring delay of game penalties, then you have more problems than just being a Carson apologist.

by tswan16 on Oct 10, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions

I watched the Pats game yesterday.

Chad had a false start penalty and I saw him drop a simple pass. That brings back old memories!

by ddbumpus on Oct 10, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Dalton's got better WR's

CP was stuck throwing to Chad Eight Fifths :-)
ha ha…

by ephram on Oct 10, 2011 12:01 PM EDT reply actions

I'd be curious to see how CP would do throwing to this group of recievers

Just in terms of this discussion. In no way do I ever want him to come back.

#TransferChickenToTheBucket.

by noobmaster on Oct 10, 2011 12:17 PM EDT reply actions

House & Chad combo had 2000yds that year with Washington kicking in 400Yds just from receivers. Green is on pace to match Chad. Palmer had equal weapons. Palmer has no excuses in this comparison.

by Vman in Germany on Oct 10, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Chad was a pro bowl selection in 2004

by Vman in Germany on Oct 10, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions

Rudi Johnson had 1452 rushing yards in 2004

Benson on pace for 1300 this year, Rudimentary was also pro bowler. Both teams had balanced attacks, this comparison has a great deal of merit, very even supporting cast.

by Vman in Germany on Oct 10, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions

I was

Gonna comment the same thing but kept reading… Totally agree … Palmer just gave up tho with or without a good WR core

by Toasted_Orange_Monster on Oct 10, 2011 2:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

Palmer

I agree with that am done with Palmer Daltons team now, Palmer quit on his team. dont want a quiter. He should not have signed on the dotted line a few yrs back for all that money, He knew Browns were idiots when he signed, he should have honored his contract and played. The one thing I agree on with Brown is to not give him what he wants and that is a trade.

by jeffo79 on Oct 10, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

+1

Carson Palmer is a quitter. Plain and simple.

by Jordan G on Oct 10, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions

RE:

It’s a good point.

But a good comparison is the handful of games last year where Palmer’s numbers shot up with Rome, Bubba and Gresham.

Managing Editor at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.

by Josh Kirkendall on Oct 10, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Palmer can kiss my butthole.

Just sayin…

by ddbumpus on Oct 10, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Palmer did not start as rookie

Palmer got to sit rookie year & learn why Kitna ran offense, Dalton got thrown in with the disadvantages associated with the strike. Supporting cast for both a wash, comparison has merit Josh, Dalton is the real deal. We need to get something for Palmer and get that era in the rearview! How about 10 reasons why the Bengals should pull trigger now! We all know #1…Dalton!

by Vman in Germany on Oct 10, 2011 12:24 PM EDT reply actions

your use of the "P word" offends me.

kidding aside, its comparing apples to oranges. different times, teams, and starting years in their careers. dalton deserves better than to be compared to the quitter. i like the kids heart and hope the quitter stays retired. only stat i care about comparing between the two of them, one has heart, one doesn’t.

" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."

by palewook on Oct 10, 2011 12:29 PM EDT reply actions

Apples & oranges in head, not on field

by Vman in Germany on Oct 10, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions

The kid gets a decisive edge in my book.

by Vman in Germany on Oct 10, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions

RE: apples and oranges

Totally agree. I had actually written that initially but deleted it because I figured it would generate more conversation to debate the two squads each quarterback played.

Such as the offensive line being a better pass blocking group in ’04 to Dalton having a stronger core of pass catchers, etc..

Managing Editor at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.

by Josh Kirkendall on Oct 10, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Make no mistake about it!!

I was definitly a Palmer supporter, even back to his USC days when i knew the Bengals was drafting him. He had more than enuff time to make this team his. And i dnt belive he did.. Palmer never got in anybodys a$$ on the sidelines (cept chad’s), and never commanded the huddle. And more times than often, he rattled under pressure. I guess wat he lacked in leadership, he made up for with arm strenghth?? lol even when he threw the ball to everybody he wasnt suppose to, It was a pretty a$$ ball.. and Palmer didnt lack the offensive weapons. Yea alot of blame definitly goes to Brat, but come on now, make a fu##in play!!!
Now this guy named Andy “fuc%%in” Dalton is a leader, great poise, he can read a defense, and does not seem to buckle under pressure… everything we’re not used to. So i can understand how us bengal fans can get excited… but we gotta long way to go. As long a Andy can grow more every week, (and we bench Crocker), we will have every opprtunity to win this divsion.. And thats all we can ask for..

by BengalNation on Oct 10, 2011 12:54 PM EDT reply actions

WORD!

by Vman in Germany on Oct 10, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Agreed

especially on the fail to lead aspect.

"Suck for Luck"? Forget that
2010 was "Schemin’ for Green and Faultin’ for Dalton."

by supergrover on Oct 10, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Is it me

Or does Dalton look like Dennis Quaid in some of these pics?

by spif on Oct 10, 2011 1:09 PM EDT reply actions

he looks like someone having fun out there

" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."

by palewook on Oct 10, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions

One thing...

Is that Palmer did take on that burden of “its been a million years sense a winning season and playoffs”

"A team is more than a group of individuals,its a group of individuals that come together to make a team"

by keithp on Oct 10, 2011 1:17 PM EDT reply actions

yabbut...

He did get to watch Kitna do it. I’d be pretty confident after watching Kitna work it to 8-8 with his weak arm and wee hands.

\that said, Kitna was a leader too. I think we didn’t give enough credit to that man when he was qb here.

"Suck for Luck"? Forget that
2010 was "Schemin’ for Green and Faultin’ for Dalton."

by supergrover on Oct 10, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions

Dalton

The thing that impresses me most about him is his leadership. I love seeing him on the sideline firing up the offense and defense alike. Beats the hell out of watching CP sit alone staring at pictures or arguing with the prima donna receiver.

by Rockhound-11 on Oct 10, 2011 1:38 PM EDT reply actions

RE:

I love his leadership and poise in the huddle.

Managing Editor at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.

by Josh Kirkendall on Oct 10, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions

... and I'm super glad the prima donna receiver is gone.

by no kidding on Oct 10, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions

still annoyed he's wearing kenny's number

but i’m respecting the poise from him as well. reminds me of kenny in that regard.

" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."

by palewook on Oct 10, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions

This is the part that has impressed me the most........

that’s why you haven’t heard much of these qualities from the national media. None of them currently watch a Bengals game, they just simply look at his stats after the game. To see the clutch plays he’s making and how he is gaining the respect of his team, has been fun to watch. I find myself no longer waiting for the Bengals to lose the game, but at what point are we gong to make the plays to win the game. So far a lot of the credit has to go to him for that.

by The Van Buren Boys on Oct 10, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions

One thing is for sure.

I can’t picture a receiver or any play player talking smack into Daltons grill, and then have AD get a glazed “I couldn’t care less” look on his face, and go sulk alone on the bench. Which is exactly the way Carson was, pretty much the whole time he was here.

by keithster on Oct 10, 2011 4:01 PM EDT reply actions

By now here in the CJ if we are talking about Carson Palmer............

there just has to be other subjects we have overlooked. Yesterdays news is not news. It is old news, an oxymoronic definition for “doesn’t matter anymore”.

"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"

by JUNGLEJOHN on Oct 10, 2011 4:48 PM EDT reply actions