The new Jerome Simpson....
by AMAS85 on Nov 2, 2011 11:38 PM EDT
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I was looking at the bengals roster today and realized how much depth they had until I got to saftey.
Robert Sands, why is he still on the roster? I know its kind of early in the year and in his career. But I really don't see what the Bengals see in him. Every player up and down the roster, contributes but Robert Sands. It just doesn't make sense. I guess he has to be special, because they did Jerome the same way. Jerome was on the team for 3 years and was activated like 3 games. So right now, Im declaring Robert Sands the new Jerome Simpson.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors.
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hes a 5th round pick
And nelson crocker and gibrel are clearly the vets who will get the playing time. I remember reading something about them having a 3rd round grade on him. I doubt he would clear waivers so if they want him he has to stay on the roster.
by JCompton41 on Nov 2, 2011 11:51 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 3 recs
Our Rookie Expectations are much higher than ever before.
Wrong! Conan! What is best in life?
To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.
by UpStateMike on Nov 3, 2011 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
He was a project
we knew that on draft night
2011 Year of the Red Rifle
Carson Palmer 2011 Comeback Player of the Year
by Throw the ball on Nov 3, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Def a project
I think he can lay a hit better than anyone on the team but he’s a rookie, comparing him to simpson after next year if hes still an in-active would make sense but still who’s the player we passed on to get Sands? With Jerome it was Desean Jackson….so I think everyone and their mother would agree untill now we all would have rather D jax to J Rome …Agreed?
by Toasted_Orange_Monster on Nov 3, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't want D Jax...
the way he’s playing this year. I’d essentially say he’s having a similar year to Jerome. He’s constantly disappearing in games which could translate to the fact that Vick doesn’t like throwing to him for some reason and would rather throw to Maclin, Celek, or Avant (this might just be me being bitter because I have D Jax on my fantasy team). But while it might have taken Jerome longer to get on the field than D Jax, this year both of them are having very similar levels of production.
Man right one the head
I also have D jax and hes been dissapointing at times he also helped me seal a win two times this year….first with his 100yrds td in the 2 week and the 170yrd game later. But he has been way less productive this year than the last few. But if you could have had the production outta him from the last two years, with palmers cannon arm(I know hes gone but he did have one) I think we might have looked less like egg on our faces when we didn’t have to sign TO Coles and might have kept TJ….. just saying the what if’s …. I know thats never good to do…but what if….
by Toasted_Orange_Monster on Nov 3, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
7 players have to be inactive.
If you’re right that every other player contributes, then it’s not a problem if we use one of those 7 inactive spots as an “inactive-every-week” player who we think we can develop and will turn into a great player.
Other than that, he can’t be “the new Jerome Simpson”, because the expectations on Simpson were much higher – he was a second round pick, and you usually expect to get instant (or near-instant) impact from your secound round picks. Fifth rounders, on the other hand, are usually picked for depth and/or as projects, and it’s not such a big problem if they don’t work out so well – the investment is much less.
For instance, recent Bengals’ fifth round picks include Sands, Hudson (PS), Huber (punter, and an exception to the above guideline), Shirley (cut) and Rowe (cut).
I don't think that is all the way true...
i get if your picked higher you should be contribute sooner but Jerome had to sit behind chad until we decided not to start him anymore. But my main point is, why are we keeping a player on our ROSTER if he is a project, why not put him on the practice squad? And pick up someone that will make more of an impack, maybe like, an extra CB?
AMAS
Probably because they are afraid he wouldn't clear waivers
any team can do what we are doing with him if we were to cut him and try to sign him to the PS
by Oregonbengalsfan on Nov 3, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty much what Oregonbengalsfan said.
Jerome was a higher-round pick, sitting on a worse team, with less depth and played about as much as Sands has, yet he was kept on the roster. Why not put him on the practice squad, since he was clearly a project? Because he would have been claimed off waivers before we had a chance to sign him to the PS. Alternatively, another team might have offered him more to sit on THEIR practice squad instead of ours, see Briscoe, Dezmon.
Your reasoning of using the spot on another CB is quite compelling, though. We’re only four deep at a position which typically needs three players to see a significant amount of snaps (although we often use a safety as our nickleback), and usually one two or three of them have been healthy. Still, our coaching staff probably see Sands as having more long-term value, and when we’re building through the draft (even though we are contending), you want to keep hold of your long-term value assets, even if one or two of them aren’t contributing at the moment.
I understand about another team picking him up
but i would rather have cover corner that will contribute just incase someone gets hurt… we only have 3 corners there health and our 4th will be back next week… its just cutting it close… the thing about dezmon getting picked up isn’t the same… its easier to put a WR out there and have them make a contribution than putting a DB out there and getting the same results… it would be a different scenario of sand was making a difference on special teams but he is not..
AMAS
I see what you're saying
but I just think it’s FAR too early to say the team is wasting a roster spot on the guy when we’re not even halfway through his rookie season and he was a 5th round pick.
I was pretty upset that Frostee Rucker stayed on the roster for years with little to no production, but this year he’s been an impact player. Is it worth the years spent on him? I don’t know. I think he’s an example of the other extreme. A few years vs a few games.
To our credit..........
we have talent in front of a lot of guys now, so on this team it’s not as easy to play as a rookie. I think we need to give him more time, from what I saw of him in college the guy is a beast. Our safeties aren’t flashy, but haven’t played terrible in recent weeks. I think it’s just a numbers game right now and Sands is odd man out, I do expect him to contribute at some point. Also, don’t forget how many injuries our safeties have sustained in recent years………especially when we had Roy Williams.
by The Van Buren Boys on Nov 3, 2011 9:36 AM EDT reply actions
no way
When Simpson was drafted I wrote “a faster Chris Henry?” Instead we got absolutely nothing for 46 regular season games, nearly 3 full seasons, then suddenly 2 good games. From a 2nd round WR, you expect more than 24 points in 56 games.
Sands was a 5th round project who we’re hoping might contribute on special teams and maybe contribute on defense somewhere down the road.
They’re not even remotely similar.
I think coming out of the draft
simpson was going to be a big project, watching his highlights, you could tell he was gifted athletically, but with robert sands IDK. it just doesn’t seem like it is not worth the time or patients, we will probably draft another saftey next draft and he wont be here next year. So i am assuming marvin sees something special in him or wants to wait until mays developes more before cutting him from the active roster.
AMAS
The reason we want to keep him is because he
is BIG, FAST, and STRONG… there is no way that he would make it onto the practice squad. His draft grade suggested that he could be taken early as third round, so basically if we try to put him on PS, another team sees that as an opportunity for a free 3rd round draft pick safety. It would be stupid to risk losing someone who has such potential when there is really no upside to putting him on the practice squad.
I really don't see him on our roster next year
i could be wrong but i just don’t see it… Nelson will get a contract extension, and I think the when ever Crocker goes, they want Mays at his position. But we will see…
AMAS
even if Mays pans out
which he certainly didn’t do in SF, that’s only 2 safeties. Your argument seems to be that if we don’t see Sands starting this year or next then we’re wasting a roster spot on him…. ?
last time I checked we have 6 safties
on the roster now… to me that just seems a little much considering we are short on CBs. I don’t mind having him on the roster next year if we don’t keep gibril wilson but like i said they will end up drafting another saftey I feel.
AMAS
so 6 mediocre at best guys
means we shouldn’t try any new guys? We can all argue about it in a number of different ways, but the fact remains that he’s a late-round rookie who has barely had a chance to learn the playbook. It’s way too early to complain about him having a roster spot, especially when the glaring weak spot on the defense is at safety.
correction
Nelson has shown flashes of pretty-darn-goodness and seems to be getting better. The rest are mediocre at best.
another correction...
before this weekend I was calling for them to pick up Chris Harris through free agency and demote Crocker so we could start a guy with more experience at the SS position but Crocker has actually been solid this year, albeit with a few foolish miscues, and he actually looks like a very good blitzer from the secondary which only makes our pass rush more lethal. Do I think he’s great? No, but I don’t think he’s mediocre either, more in the serviceable range. Gibril Wilson is also serviceable.
Plain and simple...
the reason Simpson didn’t get on the field for three seasons was the coaches’ fault. Marvin Lewis was even man enough to admit it last season. Direct quote from Marvin, “Shame on me for not getting him in there sooner.” I like Lewis and everything he’s done since he’s been here as he’s the only one who appears to have loosened MB’s mule-like stubbornness somewhat but the coaches royally screwed up early on with Simpson and that’s why he never got on the field. I’ll go ahead and give Bratkowski some of the blame for that too as he was too set in ways with Ocho playing the X to go a different route with a younger guy like Simpson who was simply looking to prove himself. Instead they chose to bury him on the depth chart after T.J. left by wasting money on washed up guys like Coles, Bryant, and TO and THAT I blame on the coaches and MB, not on Simpson and I right now I think they’re making the same mistake with Coffman. Simpson I think is desperately trying to make up for all that lost time with his play this season and he’s been solid, although he still needs work with his hands. But if he continues to improve he could be just as good as DeSean Jackson, if not better. I have faith in the guy, mainly because I like his enthusiasm and how he stepped up and suddenly started organizing team workouts during the lockout while the whole mess that Palmer created was going on and I hope he’s retained after this season. I like him and AJ playing opposite each other as he’s a guy that can hurt a defense if they spend too much time emphasizing heavy coverage on Green.
doesn't hold water
Ask Marvin why the economy collapsed and he’ll take the blame. That’s all he says to the media about anything- “That’s my fault”
When a player doesn’t get onto the field it’s because he hasn’t shown the coaches he should be on the field. Maybe his rock bottom intelligence made the playbook too hard for him, or maybe the coaches saw how error-prone he was and didn’t get him out there until they were desperate. I don’t know, no one outside the organization does. But Marvin saying it’s his fault doesn’t make it so, it just means he was asked about it.
Maybe it wasn't Marvin's fault...
but I don’t think all the blame should be put on Simpson for him not getting on the field. I partially blame the fact that Bratkowski was as stubborn as Mike Brown as far as his playcalling and personnel choices go. He simply refused to take Chad out of that X receiver spot due to the fact that he was coaching him in that spot for nearly a decade despite the fact that Chad was old and declining and consistently getting worse season after season. I mean, personally, the Chad Johnson of 2005 probably would have given Darrelle Revis fits. But the fact that Jerome was only coached in practice in the X spot and therefore was only limited to that part of the playbook as well as the fact that Bratkowski simply would not take Chad off the field despite his increased drops and declining level of play played a huge role in Simpson not getting on the field. I mean, look at last year. Chad was ineffective for most of the season and was constantly outshined by TO and at the end of the year when Simpson got in there he produced and the only reason he got in was because Chad got hurt. I personally think Bratkowski had too much loyalty to Chad, even when he started becoming ineffective and he flat out refused to move him to another spot and work Simpson in which I think played a huge part in Simpson’s struggles to get on the field which is a shame.
Tall athletic safeties are going be needed in an NFL where receivers are starting to push 6'5 (Vincent Jackson) - 6'6 (Jimmy Graham)
If he doesn’t pan out after two years, cut him. But he’s worth keeping on the team as a project even if he’s not active.
I think hieght is a little over rated
when it comes to saftey… i think the best safties in the league are quick and fast plus they catch everything that comes near them
AMAS
How about safeties that can hit?
IF they like what they see in Sands/Mays after this year, I don’t think there is any way we draft a safety this year, unless its like 6th or 7th round. We have a lot of physical talent in those two guys and if they can be coached up to play like Zimmer wants then we could have 2 really nasty, big, fast, hard hitting safeties! Even if they don’t start, they are good for depth and special teams after they get coached up a little more. Add in a nice shutdown corner that we could pick up in 1st or 2nd round of the draft, and our secondary could be very very strong.
And yes tall safeties are needed atm with the way the league is shifting towards relying more heavily on big TE receivers and big tall wide outs. A big opposing receiver is going to catch balls all day long against small safeties no matter how fast they are.
like i said being tall doesn't really give you an advantage
have quick hands give you an advantage… if being tall was that much of an advantage, then football players would look more like basketball players… I really don’t see that much out of Sands. I watch his high light video and saw him in the preseason, still didn’t see much of an upside
AMAS
An example of height giving an advantage
Sherman… yes he’s a CB but still.
by Oregonbengalsfan on Nov 3, 2011 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Nitpicking here...
But Jimmy Graham isn’t a receiver- he’s a TE, where players have always been tall. I know what you mean about the evolution of receivers because they definitely are getting taller in general, but Graham is a bad example because he doesn’t play WR.
If you watch his draft highlights
You can see what they see/saw in him. I get the feeling that Zims defense is complicated,especially for backs and safeties. So I expect him, and on the other side of the ball Armon Binns to be given a legitimate shot in 2012.
i will have to rewatch his highlights
because i wasn’t that impressed. He played in the big east, i would be more impressed if he had played in the SEC.
AMAS
hes probably not going to be ed reed
But he has potential, why let him go? I get wanting another corner, but miles can play corner in a pinch. He’s not hurting the team, so what’s the big deal?
by JCompton41 on Nov 4, 2011 3:06 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
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