Six-Pack Of Who Dey: Taylor Mays, Anthony Collins And Argument For An Overrated Defense?

For those of you unfamiliar with the Six-Pack of Who Dey, this was once a regular weekly feature that would throw out six topics for consumption. We've largely abandoned it due to the nature of how much work is put into developing them. But throughout this week I decided to get one going (which I began writing Monday morning). It's more opinion than anything else surrounding issues and topics that are either the hot topics this week, or will be the hot topics or just random musings that are buried in the overall scope of things.
This week we examine spit-gate with Adam Jones. How Taylor Mays is coming along as Chris Crocker's eventual replacement (and why it needs to happen sooner rather than later). An argument that the defense might be overrated. Begging the team to do whatever it takes to keep Anthony Collins beyond this season and other things.
Let's get started.
+ TO SPIT OR NOT SPIT, THAT IS THE QUESTION. At some point during the scrum to recover the fumble that Rey Maualuga generated near the goalline, Bengals cornerback Adam Jones spit into Houston’s Lawrence Vickers face, so accused the sixth-year fullback to his coach after the play. We fired up the excellent Game Rewind service on NFL.com to review the play – which we’ve done countless times since Monday morning (we can practically recall from memory). But since our memory is facing seriously bad choices from high school, we reviewed the play again.
Adam Jones comes into view long after the scrum begins, with a casual (and civil-like) conversation with offensive lineman Duane Brown. At some point Jones meanders over to the pile, like a micromanager to getting an update. Feeling the necessity to help officials unwind a chaotic pile following the fumble, Jones yanks Texans’ running back Ben Tate’s leg in an effort to drag him out. Vickers, with an instinctual defense of one’s teammate, pushed Jones away from the pile.
Since Adam Jones isn’t the type to let a slight go unpunished, he quickly jumps into Vickers face when all of the sudden the fullback gives Jones a powerful shove (where we can assume if a loogie was launched, it happened there). A handful of Texans conspired around an official when Jones returns demanding that the official throws a flag. By this time the Bengals were awarded the fumble -- that would eventually result in a 97-yard touchdown drive -- and Adam Jones was pulled away from the confrontation by Brandon Johnson and Frostee Rucker.
Whether Jones spit or not isn’t definitive and the cornerback has yet to answer to the accusation that’s practically shut down the Houston Chronicle. As much as Vickers may be an upstanding citizen that’s apparently very spiritual, he could as much be covering his own indiscretions by shoving Jones by claiming something that no one has verified that happened. At the same time Jones’ history works against him because as one reader emailed me, "There’s no way that Jones could ever possibly do that, right?"
+ SPEAKING OF EMAILS FROM READERS. There are times I spend significant time getting into discussions, debates or find myself on the receiving end of a rant against the Bengals (and equally the number of praises for guys like Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis that’s scarce within the comments on these pages). And I love it. Many ideas generated are sometimes digested into an already well-established idea. One such case was a reader that sent me a lengthy email talking about how the Bengals defense isn’t that great, wanting us to take a look at it.
We pooled together two sets of statistics; taking an opposing team’s average when the Bengals faced that team and that team’s current average and corresponding ranking. For example the Buffalo Bills were ranked third in the NFL averaging 431 yards per game. Cincinnati limited Buffalo to only 273 yards. At the same time Cincinnati’s defense allowed opposing offenses to go above their averages at the point both squads met more times than not. For example the Seahawks sported the league’s 31st best offense, averaging 262.8 yards per game. Cincinnati’s defense allowed 411 yards during their week eight win over Seattle.
| Yards Allowed | Ranking (before game) | Ranking (current) | |
| 1 - Browns | 285 | N/A | 291.7 (29th) |
| 2 - Broncos | 318 | 310.0 (23rd) | 317.1 (23rd) |
| 3 - 49ers | 226 | 207.5 (31st) | 309.0 (26th) |
| 4 - Bills | 273 | 431.0 (3rd) | 343.6 (15th) |
| 5 - Jaguars | 296 | 264.2 (31st) | 260.1 (32nd) |
| 6 - Colts | 273 | 287.0 (30th) | 283.4 (31st) |
| 8 - Seahawks | 411 | 262.8 (31st) | 303.2 (27th) |
| 9 - Titans | 328 | 307.7 (25th) | 323.5 (19th) |
| 10 - Steelers | 328 | 389.1 (9th) | 371.6 (11th) |
| 11 - Ravens | 373 | 340.7 (15th) | 346.0 (14th) |
| 12 - Browns | 274 | 298.1 (29th) | 291.7 (29th) |
| 13 - Steelers | 295 | 374.5 (10th) | 371.6 (11th) |
| 14 - Texans | 412 | 376.2 (10th) | 378.9 (9th) |
This doesn’t mean that Cincinnati’s defense is bad, per say. And frankly when you break it down, generic statistics are horrible ways to tell a game’s story. That being said the Steelers, Browns, Bills and Colts are the only teams that were unable to surpass their season average at the point both teams met.
One more thing before we move on and allow others to make their own judgments: Cincinnati has faced opposing offenses that were ranked 31st three times this year and ranked 23rd or worse in seven of their 13 games, which may factor into a growing believe Cincinnati’s defense is one of the best in the league.
Additionally Cincinnati has faced top-15 offenses in four of the past five games (all losses), allowing 352 yards in those games.
We’re not making judgments based on all that though.
+ THE ANTHONY COLLINS EFFECT. Consider this. The Cincinnati Bengals were 1-11-1 when a fourth round rookie named Anthony Collins was asked to make his first professional start at left tackle against the Pittsburgh Steelers during Thursday night football. His assignment was James Harrison, who would go on to win the Defensive Player of the Year that season, posting 16 quarterbacks sacks, seven forced fumbles, an interception and safety. By this point in the season, Harrison posted a quarterback sack in six of his previous seven games.
Compounding the overall issue is that reports surfaced earlier that week, following the tie against the Philadelphia Eagles, that neither Levi Jones nor Andrew Whitworth would be available. Not only did Collins shutdown the veracious James Harrison, the 2008 Defensive MVP was limited to a season-low three tackles (and one was an assist). Collins started the final six games in 2008 with the team going 3-3 and (indirectly) helping Cedric Benson explode into Cincinnati’s future offenses as the team’s feature back for the next three seasons.
This season Collins replaced the injured Andre Smith at right tackle, who left early against the Pittsburgh Steelers in week 13. Not only has he adequately replaced Smith at right tackle, Pro Football Focus grades Collins as the team’s best offensive linemen in cumulative grades combining Cincinnati’s most recent games.
Is it too much of a stretch to beg the front office to sign Collins to a deal for 2012 and hang onto him as long as possible – especially if the oft-injured Smith remains the team’s starting right tackle?
+ DISAPPOINTMENT IN BERNARD SCOTT. There’s been such a deep desire to for backup running back Bernard Scott to explode into the league, replicating his impressive college career. This tick-generating obsession is often disregarded from the ultra-conservationism based on durability concerns even though Scott hasn’t actually missed a game in nearly two years (December 20, 2009).
But you can’t help but feel disappointed.
Truthfully there really isn’t a whole lot to be disappointing in with the player himself. In four of the past six games, Scott averaged over four yards rushing per carry. The two games that he didn’t average over four yards, Scott registered a total of five yards on 10 carries against the Cleveland Browns and the Houston Texans. Though if you watch those games, he was tackled for significant losses largely due to a failed blocking assignment, categorically putting Scott into the "he had no shot" argument.
At the same time I had wished and expected more by now. Marvin Lewis and Jay Gruden have followed through on their plan to use him, often on the third series and incrementally throughout the rest of the game, giving him a career-high 89 carries. Yet with only 298 yards rushing, he’s averaging a career-low 3.3 yards rushing per carry and through 42 games played, has scored two touchdowns.
I know the reasons why a running back might not be successful in the game of football; it’s in the first chapter called "things you should know if you’re going to become an obsessive fan that constantly writes about the team for pennies."
At the same time I had expected and hoped for more.
+ THE TAYLOR MAYS EXPERIMENT COMING ALONG NICELY. While Owen Daniels was basking in the glow of charitable coverages during this giving season last week, once Mays integrated himself into the game regularly covering the tight end, Owens was largely "bah, humbugged" and it's hardly surprising. While Mays may struggle against deep passes with speedy receivers (at least that’s the knock on him), the safety is ideal against tight ends because Mays is just as quick as any tight end and as big as a linebacker.
Already a heavy special teams contributor, the presence of Mays on defense offers an eventual caveat for the team’s future. Continuing with his development as the eventual starting strong safety, replacing an aging Chris Crocker, once Mays plays up to his athletic abilities, it would be like Cincinnati receiving another first round draft pick during the season he’s eventually named the full-time starter.
Though when Crocker came to Cincinnati essentially becoming the team’s best overall safety, versatile enough to play any secondary position asked of him -- with a decent pass rush and hard-hitting mentality in the box -- Crocker will turn 32 this March. Additionally against the pass this year, opposing quarterbacks have posted a 101.3 quarterback rating against receivers he’s covered.
But it’ll come down to money and contracts, as most decisions in the NFL do. It’s not hard imaging Mays stealing a significant portion of Crocker’s playing time next season, especially with Crocker playing for a moderate $1.75 million during the final year of his four-year contract in 2012. Along with a higher ceiling, Mays, who turns 24 in February, is only expected to make $490,000 in 2012. Does that mean Crocker will be meaningless? No. He’ll be just as influential on the team’s defense, backing up any position in the secondary and adding comfort to the concern of injury. Backups and depth are keys in the NFL most successful team have plenty of. Crocker offers that at the safety position.
+ THIS TEAM’S IMMEDIATE FUTURE WILL RELY ON THEIR DEFENSE. There is an incredible foundation forming within Cincinnati’s offense, with Andy Dalton and A.J. Green putting together one of the most impressive rookie quarterback and wide receiver combinations since the NFL’s merger in 1970. Both have absolutely assaulted (in Dalton’s case destroyed), most of the franchise’s respective rookie records.
That being said this offense isn’t necessarily tasked with stability beyond this season. The running back position is fluid. A team full of slot receivers in Jordan Shipley, Andrew Hawkins and Ryan Whalen, it’s safe to say that this team’s number two receiver, playing opposite of A.J. Green, isn’t on the team yet and the offensive line needs help. It wouldn’t be a stretch to believe that Cincinnati’s starting running back, left guard and second wide receiver (not slot receiver) for next year might not be on this team right now.
That being said this team’s immediate future (and we mean the rest of this season and into next season), will heavily depend on their defense. The defensive line is producing the team’s finest young talent and the linebacker crew is as strong in Cincinnati as it’s ever been during the Marvin Lewis era (save for perhaps that 2005 squad). And the secondary is consistently on the brink of making plays, though somewhat short in the eventual talent department.
And that’s the truth. Like the offense there’s many questions surrounding this defense that counters the talking points above. Will Rey Maualuga improve or are watching his peak? Will he just be an above average linebacker, or a play-maker, like we saw against the Houston Texans? Will Leon Hall return before training camp after suffering a season-ending Achilles injury earlier this year? Will the team find Johnathan Joseph’s replacement during Nate Clement’s second year? Don’t get me wrong. Clements has done a fantastic job stepping into the role, but his NFL career isn’t going to last much longer as we’ve already seen age highlighting depreciation with his overall talent.
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one superstar on the back end and this defense makes it legit
A stud saftey, or corner, and a beast linebacker is all this defense needs. Rey might become that, and the current crop of libebackers play great, their just isn’t a guy teams have to fear. And in the seconday, a corner who can stick with anyone, or a ed reed, troy p, Eric berry type player who can fly all over the field and make plays. This defense is over rated I think, I wouldn’t list them when saying the top 5 ds or probably not top 10 either, but they’re not far off being elite.
by JCompton41 on Dec 16, 2011 9:43 AM EST via mobile reply actions
All things being equal
I would rather resign Simpson and Benson… so they can concentrate the early part of the draft on defense. Just my opinion.
Watching Stanford Jennings kick return in the Super Bowl was the out of body experience of my sports life.
simpson yes, benson no
Benson needs to go. Still say focus shouldn’t be on running back unless richarson is there, but a solid free agent or a 3rd round running back will be better than Benson.
by JCompton41 on Dec 16, 2011 10:03 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I like this JC41 dude here!!
Ur right on …..I WOULD NOT re-sign BENSON! HELL NO! IM glad I see someone else that shares my thoughts. We need to sign a young, bad ass RB from the DRAFT AND a SAFETY/DB …..(1) offense, (1) defense pick from the first round. I would keep SCOTT for punt returns OR BABY HAWK! GET RID OF TATE! GEEEZ he sucks so bad.
i would say about 90% of cincy jungle want benson gone.
by JCompton41 on Dec 16, 2011 10:35 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
If they can find someone better
than Benson, I am all for that…… just hope they don’t use the early part of the draft, Too risky…. load up on defense secondary and linebackers.
Watching Stanford Jennings kick return in the Super Bowl was the out of body experience of my sports life.
see
Chris Perry, Kijana Carter, Kenny Irons
Watching Stanford Jennings kick return in the Super Bowl was the out of body experience of my sports life.
peerman worst case scenerio
Can’t be much worse. If Benson will take 1 mil, sure, if he wants more he’s not worth it.
by JCompton41 on Dec 16, 2011 10:44 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
who has a list of all the free agent running backs?
i would make a trade to Houston for tate, if at all possible. But I think this team maybe built more of the running back by committee
AMAS
like i said
A 3rd rounder or a free agent will be able to provide the same 3.5 ypc as Benson.
by JCompton41 on Dec 16, 2011 10:44 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Running BAck?
I hear alot of people saying to stack up on DEFENSIVE players!!? I agree with drafting a DB high in the draft however, Wouldnt it be nice to have 2 working horse type RB with this west coast style offense? Run the crap out of the ball every other snap…become a dominate running team, running backs / Fullbacks……thoughts?
benson would never be a backup
by JCompton41 on Dec 16, 2011 11:10 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
True....
I fear he would become a distraction on the team and divide the locker room. He would be pissed at losing carries….
No pump up?
A running back like Richardson would be great but this offense has scott and leonard. I see no reason why we should go for two RB’s all we need to do is replace Benson and we will be fine, an OT/OG would be my second and third want over two RB’s. But our defense needs some young hard working kids in its depth, otherwise our D falls apart after 2 yrs.
AD to AJ = TD!!
by Toasted_Orange_Monster on Dec 16, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
i like benson
just not on our team, we need a McCoy type back that can break one off or catch out of the back field.
AMAS
IF Simpson gets out of his recent trouble
I would be ok with re-signing him, no to Benson though, exccept for depth, wouldn’t draft a RB in 1st though, would go after Polk in 2nd, get an o-lineman to play LG and a CC in 1st, move Smith to RG and insert Collins in at RT.
that wouldnt even work in madden
by JCompton41 on Dec 16, 2011 10:55 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
nobodys going to trade a stud running back.
That’s like saying we should trade for Jake long, or trade for tom Brady.
by JCompton41 on Dec 16, 2011 11:00 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
for a huge package maybe
What we could trade for AP, aj green? Maybe they’ll take whit, Leon hall, if he wasnt coming off injury, then have to throw in draft picks still.
by JCompton41 on Dec 16, 2011 11:25 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don't know if I would go for Polk or not
he is a very good RB don’t get me wrong, I just don’t want to waste a draft pick on someone (at any position) that has had multiple surgeries. In Polk’s case 2 shoulder surgeries already, that doesn’t mean that he couldn’t do great things in the NFL though.
"When you see it open up and all you can see is the end zone, it’s hard to describe how relieving it feels." -Ced Benson
by ItsAlwaysSunnyInDayton on Dec 16, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
I am on board (kind of) with Simpson...
But not Benson. His two games this year when he has gone over 100 yds, were both against the Browns. It looked like last week he was going to get his third, but then he never got going in the second half. He tends to go down to easy, and can’t seem to break the first tackle. I have long been a supporter of Benson, but to me he seems to be going down the Rudi Johnson path, and not being anything special. I would love to have a back that can break tackles (Marshawn Lynch comes to mind just has an example, but too much baggage), not go down with first contact.
Also, while we might have missed Bobbie Williams, the Texans had a guy who played with a broken leg and their RB’s although no lighting it up, did not finish with -1 yards for a whole half.
We MUST get a Ray Rice type of dual threat running back
The WCO requires a back with good hands. we are hamstrung offensively by Benson inability to catch the ball on a screen.
i'd be happy with focusing on fixing the offense in free agency and using the draft to fix the defense.
do i want simpson back? no. will simpson be back? unless he’s indicted, yes simpson will be back. mike brown loves a bargain. what team would offer simpson a big contract or any contract for that matter?
benson. tougher call. benson back as the starter in 2012? no. benson back as depth on the bench for a veteran minimum contract? sure.
in targeting free agency to fix the teams offensive woes, it leaves us needing to sign 1 starting guard (best available), 1 depth guard, 1 speedy wr (mid range salary), 1 more speedy wr (cheap), 1 starting rb (best available) , and 1 depth back (b scott/peerman probably on way out).
while i’d also love to resign pat simms and manny lawson. the bengals are going to outbid for both of those players in free agency.
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
Not so fast
We are going to be adding perhaps 5 or 6 starters working in their rookie deals, and there is a significant minimum to the salary cap. We could find ourselves with with dough that we HAVE to throw around, may well spend it on guys who know what we are doing.
targeting a top guard and a top rb in fa
will eat 15-20 million of that cap space on just 2 players
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
that gives scott the short straw for 2012 then
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
Definitely need help in our passing game....
A CB would be ideal, especially one of the top ones. Trade up?
clairbornes top 7
Can’t trade up that high and kirkpatricks not worth trading up for.
by JCompton41 on Dec 16, 2011 10:42 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
My thoughts
Run game: Benson is done after this year….we need speed….I am not quite sure on Scott….our run-blocking is atrocious….it seems like Scott has to dodge 3 guys before he gets to line of scrimmage
Defense: run D…good….pass D….decent…LB pass D=terrible
Mays: shows promise….
Needs: Secondary….secondary….secondary…..If there is a great safety or a game changing CB then we must take in 1st….if not….a solid guard or even tackle…..Smith is doing OK…but we did not pick up his option….so who knows
Overall: If we can get our offense into a rhythm….we can still win games this year….We just cant shut down if we have a lead……………….WHODEY…
not sold on scott
he’s not elusive. we could use a bruiser and an elusive back. we have the hands covered with leonard.
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
what about that RB from Oregon?
i think he may be an up grade from Scott, but Im still high on scott
AMAS
scott is a paper tiger
everything about him looks right on paper. and yet in game, he never puts together. when was the last time you saw scott catch a screen and break it for 10 yards? 5 yards? 3 yards?
or the last time he juked a single defender? scott’s positive yard carries happen from the play call, correct call, nobody in his way for 4-5 yards, he gets positive results.
LaMichael James? not a fan, he’s got a checkered past and he’s a duck. name the last duck to have a solid nfl career? scouting reports on him aren’t bad and he’s the ducks all time leading rusher. he’ll get drafted in 2012. probably 1st day too.
Draft Scout Snapshot: 2010: Suspended for 2010 season opener after pleading guilty to misdemeanor harassment charge (four other charges were dropped) due to altercation with his girlfriend; sentenced to 10 days in jail (received electronic bracelet instead) and two years probation … Consensus All-American won the Doak Walker Award as the nation’s top running back … Finished third in the Heisman Trophy voting … One of three finalists for the 2010 Walter Camp Player of the Year award … One of just four conference players to earn both Pac-10 all-Academic and all-Pac-10 first-team honors … Semifinalist for the 76th annual Maxwell Award … Oregon’s Most Outstanding Player … National leader in rushing (144.2) and scoring average (12.0) while ranking seventh in all-purpose yards (168.4) … Led the NCAA in overall rushing yards with 1,731 and 21 touchdowns on 294 carries (5.9 per) … Also caught 17 passes for 208 yards and three scores during the year … Ran for 239 yards and three touchdowns on a career-best 36 attempts in win at USC … Named Walter Camp national offensive player of the week, Pac-10 player of the week (offense) after establishing career highs with 257 rushing yards on 31 carries in win over Stanford; matched career best with three touchdowns, including a career-long 76-yard score against the Cardinal. 2009: Earned team’s Most Outstanding Player accolades … Named second-team All-Pac-10 by league coaches .. Ranked ninth in the country in rushing (118.9 avg.) … Rushed for 1,546 yards, eclipsing the Pac-10 freshman rushing record with 166 yards (and three touchdowns) in last regular-season outing vs. Oregon State … Scored 14 touchdowns … Averaged 6.7 yards on his 230 carries, which ranked second in the Pac-10 … Parlayed four catches for 89 receiving yards against Stanford to go along with his 125 yards on the ground to tally a career-best 214 all-purpose yards … Caught 17 passes for 168 yards on the season … Rushed for a season-high 183 yards rushing in win over USC, earning him Pac-10 offensive player-of-the-week accolades … named team’s offensive player-of-the-game against Utah after rushing for 152 yards and one touchdown on 27 carries against the Utes, in addition to picking up 23 yards in kickoff returns and 3 yards as a receiver. 2008: Redshirt season … Earned scout team player of the week honors (offense) for work prior to games at USC and Oregon State.
- Coming off elbow injuries**
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
i can see your concerns, but dude is gifted for sure
if he slips to the second and we get a CB and OG in the first, I pick him up in a heart beat! Unless there is top notch SS on the board.
AMAS
he is going to go early
he wont slide into the 4-7th round unless the injury thing shows again. like he blows his elbow, leg, or knee up between now and the draft. or gets into legal trouble again.
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
If he can not catch AND run between the tackles he is not the guy.
but I have only seen one oregon game this year so I guess I’m asking you if he can do both..
i have seen a few
but he is natural RB and IMO he looks smooth out there and makes good reads. And I think any running back will be an upgrade form Benson when it comes to catching lol
AMAS
Benson seems to have seen his peak for sure
and yeah he has granite hands. It’s the biggest reason Gruden doesn’t run more screens and AD ignores him as an outlet.
gruden ignores the best hands back the bengals have in leonard
not sure gruden would know what to do with a back like ray rice in cincy
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
Leonard could start and be more effective for this team right now
than benson could on anyteam
by Bengalsfan024 on Dec 16, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
i don't know about all that
he is effective now because of the way we use. I think if he were to play more, teams would be able to pick up his tendencies
AMAS
Like always getting the 1st down
Catching the ball when thrown to him
or giving it everything he has on everyplay…
i could live with that.. Same reason Hawkins is here next year.
by Bengalsfan024 on Dec 16, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
yea and he is always open because
he gets the ball far and few between each time. So there is no real tape on the guy. If he was meant to be a feature back, he would have been by now.
AMAS
NO.. he is always open because it's usually 3rd and 15 when we actually do decide to throw to him and the defense gives uo the short pass.
And what makes you think he would be more effective than Benson in the lead role? He runs for about 3 ypc when he gets a straight handoff.
Hes damn good at pass-blocking and catching, that’s what he should stick with.
i'm biased when it comes to some colleges
its stupid to be, but i am. like somehow the school and its program defines the player more than the individuals abilities and heart. which is bad scouting.
i’m leery of drafting a duck, which is dumb. this guy could be the next great back and i want to pass on him because his school makes more nfl busts than successes.
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
Blount?
id trade for him not much but something
by Bengalsfan024 on Dec 16, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
Richardson
Guys…..come on now….we have no chance at this guy….this guy will be top 10 (at the most)….I would love him too….but its not going to happen….unless Mikey trades up….and I dont think that has ever happened…..and I kind of agree with that….look what Atlanta did…..Julio Jones is good…..but he is not that good……
Plus, I heard he is returning to Alabama
has that changed?
i think it will come draft time
Especially if he wins the national championship. His stock won’t ever be higher than it is now, and all he does going back is risk his acl getting blown out.
by JCompton41 on Dec 16, 2011 10:41 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
i think he will be 15 or so
Browns might take him, but other than that not much need. Jets, maybe. Most teams picking ahead of us will have bigger needs I think. But it only takes one team to really want him and he can go top 5 or 10.
by JCompton41 on Dec 16, 2011 10:39 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
MB traded UP in 1995 draft to select a RB no less
Ultimately, KJ tore his knee to shreds on the old Pontiqc Silverdome astroturf and the rest is history. Just wanted to point out that the Bengals have actually traded UP – and traded UP to the #1 overall pick to select the player many teams would have selected first overall (it was between KJ and T Tony Boselli).
The point is, however, that) is easily the most fungible position in the NFL (for every Trent Richardson there is an Arian Foster or Lagarrette Blount or Chris Ivory or MJD or Ray Rice). Shore up the Oline in first round (Cordy Glenn and/or David DeCastro would both start immediately and improve an already good line immensely and solidify it for years to come), and get the) later.
Also, let’s beat the Rams and then cheer on the Eagles and Lions.
by The_Black_Stripes on Dec 16, 2011 10:48 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
if he falls down to us, great.
otherwise target an impact defensive player or two in the 1st round. a starting CB would be nice. a DT to take over for pat simms (who i have doubts the bengals will be willing to pay starter money – and will surely get a starter’s contract offer in the FA market).
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
From what I have read...
…it’s very likely that Richardson will fall in the draft. It depends on his combine numbers to some degree, but he isn’t very fast. Most teams are looking for speed on offense, guys who take it to the house.
I think Miller is a better fit for our offense. We don’t need another Benson, we need a playmaker.
we need a bruiser or an elusive back or both
right now we have neither. if richardson can thump at the nfl level, then he’s something benson has never been. benson has always fallen over at 1st contact.
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
i've never seen benson knock anyone down
and he sure in the hell dont move piles, not forward at least.
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
i know what block your talking about
but the run happened a year before that I think. Try to youtube it, im sure its on there.
AMAS
I found a reference to an NFL.com video from the 2008 season
here but the video apparently no longer exists.
by Oregonbengalsfan on Dec 16, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
In looking for the video I did run across this
Fantasy Sports Girl
If I disappear, you know why…
by Oregonbengalsfan on Dec 16, 2011 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
he doesn't knock anyone down because that's how he runs
He doesn’t take guys head on, but tries to power past their sides. Also defenders tend to move slightly to the side of benson and take him down from a different angle, its hard to take him down dead on.
point is, benson would knock people over if he adjusted his running style
nope
Not a special back, not worth 1st round. You can find someone who can do what he can do later in the draft.
by JCompton41 on Dec 16, 2011 10:41 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Sorry, I was not focusing on the first round with him
think he would be there in say the 3rd round?
everything ive seen has him kid first, maybe second.
If hes around in the 2nd I wouldn’t mind. But I would rather use 1st and 2nd on positions that are more easy to evaluate. People in the NFL have shown they can’t evaluate running backs well.
by JCompton41 on Dec 16, 2011 10:50 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
probably not the 3rd round. he is likely to go in round 2
I like Miller and Polk from Washington – both are projected to go in round two, although things can and will change.
I would target either RBs in the second round, assuming they addressed oline and secondary or BPA in the first round.
Bengals did have great success with another second round RB from Washington – Corey Dillon. I would be fine with either Polk or Miller in Rd. 2.
by The_Black_Stripes on Dec 16, 2011 10:54 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
polk is a way better prospect then pead.
by JCompton41 on Dec 16, 2011 10:58 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
didnt even realize you were the same person, dont read names
But now that you mention it.
by JCompton41 on Dec 16, 2011 11:21 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
-1 on monte ball
I dont like him at all. I do like pead alot. Breaks tackles, is elusive. can run inside or outside and is good out of the backfield
On the verge
The best thing about this team is that they seem to be a few players away from being real contenders. On those defensive stats, with the exeption of Seattle they were fairly close. I dont know why but I like Benson it has just hurt his stats because they abandon the run in the second half in alot of games. It also seems that as soon as he gets in a grove they put in Scott and don’t get me started on him. They need to resign Collins bad! A lineman goes down every season, I think he should start but he is a crucial backup. Taylor Mays worries me Lewis said he was like trying to break a wild horse. So he has talent but know discipline or comprehension of the scheme? You can have all the talent in the world but if you don’t know what to do with it than it’s useless. Hope he comes around. All in all this team is on the up and I couldn’t be prouder to be a Bengals fan WHO DEY!.
by Bigcatdaddy on Dec 16, 2011 10:52 AM EST via mobile reply actions
maybe he has a fumble problem or something?
I have no idea why else we would never see the guy, he’s shown power and speed when he’s played in the preseason, and he shows toughness and that he’s a bad ass on special teams.
by JCompton41 on Dec 16, 2011 11:05 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
+1
I have been calling for Peerman to get some touches as well…
He only ran againt teams 3rd string D
In the preseason they put him in against other teams unknowns but I would love to see what he can do now.
by Bigcatdaddy on Dec 16, 2011 11:13 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
yea, but he showed he has speed and can break arm tackles
He did good enough to get a look behind the 1st line against a 1st team d.
by JCompton41 on Dec 16, 2011 11:19 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
coaches should be evaluating (using)
peerman more these last few games. scott’s already show he aint in our future. time to find out if peerman deserves a roster slot in 2012.
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
he doesnt need to start
just give him scott’s part of the rotation. scott hasn’t done much with it.
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
in scotts defense
most of his runs had horrible run blocking. It seems like he is always getting hit right after the hand off
AMAS
which seems to suggest
scott has no swivel. no elusiveness. limited field awareness. i understand a busted play is a busted play. however, scott’s inability to break anything in the face of d-line pressure, ever, in an nfl game, could suggest its more than a o-line missing their assignment issue.
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
Not the case becaue there is not much you can do if getting tackled right after the hand off
But i do think L James will be an upgrade with the current running backs we have.
AMAS
When hes being tackled as soon as hes handed the ball thats on the OL
fix the OL scott has looked better than benson in several games this year
by Bengalsfan024 on Dec 16, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
How about a kid in the later rounds like
Bobby Rainey from Western Kentucky…we had some other kid from Western Kentucky that was not too bad for a few years…
the only thing i am worried about with late round bacjs
Is the coaches never want to play late round players, regardless of if they’re better. So a vet, like Benson, will be there and probably carry the load until an injury, then they’ll go sign Larry Johnson for a game while Benson gets better.
by JCompton41 on Dec 16, 2011 11:14 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
true, case in point
Ryan Whalen….Robert Sands…
carlos dunlap.... geno adkins.....
by JCompton41 on Dec 16, 2011 11:42 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Wasn't Dunlap a 2nd round pick?
Atkins was what 3rd/4th round?
I think that is where the team draws the line. 1st-4th, you play, 5th-7th, you sit/practice squad..
I saw his numbers
They are outrages and no one is talking about him. Kind of reminds me of a guy like Michael Turner for Atlanta…SD passed up on him and kept LT and Sproles, now they don’t have any of them and Turner is a tough go to guy in Atlanta…
Can we find a gem like that in some of these smaller schools that are not in the limelight??
fan of getting him late if we can
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
Good analysis--
On the “overrated” issue—I think the Bengals have a good defense—is it elite? No. Are we close? Yes, if we keep our defense together and make the necessary improvements (namely depth in the secondary and continue to improve the pass rush). Yardage is the most common measure of a defense, but necessarily the most accurate because yardage is often situational—many teams will hemorrhage yards for time—that doesn’t make the defense bad. Also, our offense has trouble holding on the ball in “crucial” situations (putting the game away), which puts our defense on the field a lot. Given that, we generate a lot of “3 and outs” which is a good thing. So there are lots of ways of looking at it. I definitely agree that the fate of the Bengals future shot at a super bowl lies squarely on a stout defense.
On Collins—I don’t understand why he doesn’t see more PT. Move him to guard!
On Scott—My opinion on him—he is a slightly undersized back with good, not not spectacular speed. This means he isn’t going to bowl people over, neither is he going to outrun people. His strength is his open field vision. I see him as a #2 back, who should be used in the passing game. The Bengals don’t use him this way because of our current back set up. We basically use him to spell Benson with the same play book. I think we need to totally revamp how we use our RBs. Draft Lamar Miller and have him split time with Scott with Leonard as the third down back. Then have a FB that can carry the ball (possibly Pressley or someone else) be the short yardage/goal line back.
On the safeties—I never viewed Crocker as anything more than a placeholder. What is not clear is who is the heir. I think Mays and possibly Sands will be given every opportunity, however, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a pretty open competition next year at safety amongst what we have possibly some FA.
On WRs—Not too concerned here. I think Caldwell and Simpson will be back—with Shipley and a pass catching threat out of the backfield (see Miller above) Dalton will have plenty of targets.
God I hope you are wrong on Caldwell...
He needs to go….
not a fan of cladwrong anymore either
bad things happen if you throw the ball in his direction. he needs to go.
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
Simpson and Caldwell are not starting receivers
That should be pretty obvious. And both will be going into their 5th seasons. They are not diamonds in the rough anymore. Experiment over.
I REALLY want Marques Colston. And I think he’ll be available. The Saints are going to be strapped by Brees’ new contract, and we might have to overpay a bit (something in the $9 million range) to get him, but we have SO much room to work with. Especially given how cheap AJ and Dalton are going to be for the next few years. Colston would make this offense almost unstoppable, especially with Shipley back. it doesn’t matter who the running back is. We could literally grab any UFA we wanted to and pair them with Scott. The receiving corp would be the best in the league and it wouldn’t even be close.
We aren't going to spend that money on WR
At best we may pickup a journeyman WR—don’t expect a marquis WR to pair with Green.
We paid Antonio Bryant $7.5 million
We signed Lavernius Coles and T.O.
People keep saying this, but Mike Brown actually DOES spend money on free agents. The problem has often been that FA’s don’t want to come here. I think the idea of playing across from Green and with a budding star QB, plus a highest offer, would get him here. Don’t rule it out. And if not him, Robert Meachem or Pierre Garcon. Even Reggie Wayne. There are going to be a ton of top flight WR’s on the market next year. I’d bet we get one of them. Colston’s just on the top of my list. Honestly, anyone with consistent hands that can get downfield quickly is going to be good enough when paired with AJ.
yeah but
i think simpson is good caldwell i agree on however spending 9 mil on a wr i would rather try and spend 9 mil on a fa corner back like asnata sameul or some other top cb. or maybe a top guard or center.
by bengalsfanforlife on Dec 16, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
Agree--
Given the nature of our team (WCO) with a orientation towards defense—it’s not a priority. We will do Andy Dalton a much larger favor by giving a stout defense and an effective running game than giving him a deep threat.
You're not giving Dalton a deep threat
You’re giving AJ a foil. This is what AJ is capable of when being constantly double and triple teamed. Imagine what he’s capable of when you can occasionally get him into man coverage. This is a passing league. Look at our offense – even with Marvin Lewis and a “WCO” system, we still rely on the passing game to move on offense. These days you need two legitimate #1 type guys on the outside to be successful.
Yes.
Because that’s what it takes in this league these days. Considering we’re getting an All Pro #1 receiver for basically pocket change for the next 3 years, it’s not a bad way to spend the mountain of money we’re freeing up next year. Build the best 1-2 receiving duo in the league for Dalton.
spend that money on oline
I bet Dalton would be happier with that.
by JCompton41 on Dec 16, 2011 12:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
People are acting like we can't do all of this
I don’t think we’re going to bring back Geathers or Rivers and we have Carson’s $12+ million freed up. We are going to have a TON of money to spend next year plus a lot of very cheap top round draft picks. I think we can go after the top WR in free agency, as well as Carl Nicks form the Saints to start at LG plus re-signing the rest of our own free agents.
Bring in someone who's already bitching about money?
Myself, I think I’d pass
by Oregonbengalsfan on Dec 16, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
Jackson?
Of all the free agent receivers available, why go with the one guy that has MORE consistency and character questions than Simpson?
I would have to disagree with that
If i was Jackson, I would be just as p*ssed. Look at how many game changing plays Jackson has made for the Eagles. Dude is a play maker and philly goes out and signs 3 big free agent signings. Re-sign Vick and McCoy. And Jackson was there contributing before all those players.
AMAS
Having Shipley Back and Baby Hawk...
will be a nice compliment to Simpson.Green combo…
Additionally if we start using the TE’s we Have Gresham and Coffman that can catch anything. and Cochart whos holding his own.
Use Coffman as a WR.
And Develope Tate for the deep ball.. Saying we dont have a deep threat with Simpson and Green is silly though
by Bengalsfan024 on Dec 16, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
Why do you think Simpson is good?
He’s in his 4th season and he completely disappears for games at a time. I can count the good football plays he’s made in his entire career on two hands. And Asante Samuel? Really? Why not just draft Kirkpatrick or go for Claiborne?
Look, we’ve seen what a corp of Green/Simpson/Caldwell looks like. it looks like AJ Green having to win games with circus catches that open him up to injury on every snap. He needs a proper #2. Simpson and Caldwell will both be free agents, and neither of them have shown they’re worth anything more than the league minimum. If they’re willing to take that, I’d bring one of them back for depth, but why not upgrade?
i like simpson
But think he’s a 4 until he shows he’s consistent. Would love to get Garcon. Simpson has shown the ability to make great plays, he just needs to stop the dumb drops. Don’t think we need to spend big money on colston. Spend a little on a decent 2nd wr, and let him and Jerome fight for it. Jerome stays inconsistent, he’s the 4th wr while someone who can make the catch starts.
by JCompton41 on Dec 16, 2011 11:54 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think there are some good number twos
but, ultimately i like simpson if shipley can stay healthy and keep hawkins as the fourth let go of caldwell pick up a wr somewhere in the 4-6 round then we should be set. Also I think we need to remember while its his fourth season he hardly saw the field most of the time. It also seems like we arnt passing as much with a rookie qb or something. Andy except in one game doesnt have 300 yard + games if he did I think simpson would be getting target more. caldwell needs to go he keeps hitting the ball up and causing ints to happen.
by bengalsfanforlife on Dec 16, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
I would like a FA WR to
but I don’t know if it will happen. My thinking is that simpson will show just enough in the last few games to show he could be a #2. I still like the idea of bringing them both make but no guarentees that they stay. Simpson may not be a #2 in my mind but he could be the meachem of the saints. All he did for so many years is run deep. We have a big play guy in green, I think a guy like Garcon would be nice because he is consistent and can get open on the short routes.
Green, Garcon, shipley, Simpson, hawkins, Whalen? sounds good to me.
Also, would like to add, if we are saying Mays is the next SS, and we resign reggie, how early do we get a safety? I like a CB in the first to team with Hall, but a would like O linemen more then Safety
I don't think we take a safety anywhere high in this draft
There aren’t many good ones, anyway. If there was an Eric Berry or Earl Thomas in this draft I’d consider it, but I really believe with a full offseason of work that Zimmer could have Mays playing like a first rounder. There’s your upgrade. And I like Reggie Nelson. I don’t think we need to move on from him at FS.
+1
Mays covered Daniels some in the Houston game and Daniels didn’t record a catch while being covered by Mays. It could have been that he wasn’t targeted at that time, but that also could have been because Mays was on him like glue.
by Oregonbengalsfan on Dec 16, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
And I also agree on Nelson
He always seems to be there for those interceptions. (Besides the one that Hall knocked out of his hands)
by Oregonbengalsfan on Dec 16, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
+1 on Reggie
He is starting to make some noise. he’s had a few issues in coverage, but he is always, always, always flying to the ball. and bringing it when he gets there.If Hall comes back in form and we draft we draft a CB who can start. The two FA linebackers we got have been nothing short of great. When we had the rotation going our front four was the was the most fearsome in football. We are one or two players short of legendary on defense. On offense we have a future Brett Favre, with his mobility and ability throw accurately on the run. what we need is a line to create holes big enough for any RB to get four. and who can provide a nice comfy pocket long enough for AD to find the open before he has to run for his life.
also
when we going to see more of sands?
by bengalsfanforlife on Dec 16, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
Disagree on Simpson
This is essentially his “rookie” playing year. If he can remain consistent the rest of the year, then I say we definitely keep him. Dude has major ability. I think Green may be part of the reason he disappears so much. Dalton looks to Green 9 times out of 10, which I don’t exactly blame him, but I don’t think it’s all on Simpson. Those catches in the Houston game were spectacular.
by Oregonbengalsfan on Dec 16, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
I think I saw some stat on here
where Simpson has been targeted like 80+ times, but only has 40 some odd receptions. We need better production from him. He does have a tendencuy to vanish in games, but he also can put up huge numbers. He just needs to be more consistant. I would not mind bringing him back at a reduced price, but not Caldwell!
I wouldn't mind bringing Simpson back
For a league minimum 2-year deal and in conjunction with signing a top FA to be the starting #2 guy. Unfortunately, I think that if we brought back Simpson it would be as the #2 guy which means we wouldn’t look elsewhere for an upgrade. FORTUNATELY, I think Simpson is an idiot who is going to overvalue himself next year and some stupid team liek the Raiders will overpay him so he won’t be our problem anymore.
That rookie playing year is a bunch or crap
and I am not trying to insult you. Last year was his rookie playing year if you want to call it that. 4 years in the NFL is not a rookie. He does have big play abitlity but as a #2 he has to do it every game. He has not shown that he can. When green was gone he couldn’t step in and carry the load. As I said somewhere else, I like to bring him back but also Sign a vet as a #2. Simpson can be a “#4” if you give it a name, but just let him run deep routes during the game and he can fill in as a backup.
"Last year was his rookie playing year if you want to call it that."
How can you say that, he played what, 2 – 3 games?
It’s not a bunch of crap. Blame it on Simpson or the coaches, but them signing Coles, TO, etc. to play before him, hurt him.
by Oregonbengalsfan on Dec 16, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
And if the coaches weren't considering bringing him back
they’d play Caldwell at #2 on the outside where he’s “more comfortable”.
by Oregonbengalsfan on Dec 16, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
I made that same statement about him last year about playing time
but last year he got a lot more practice time and played those last few games and showed some potential. Even then sitting for 3 years he had to learn to play the game.By now he should know how to play at the NFL level and whether he can or can’t is up to his abiltity. If you worked at a company for 4 years but made mistakes like it was your first, would you still be employed? not likely.
We see rookies younger then him step up and have sucess, why does it take 4 years for him. Resign him and let him run down the field a few times a game, but don’t tell me we should give him #2 just because this year was his “rookie year”.
The last few games
don’t make up for much experience
by Oregonbengalsfan on Dec 16, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
through his first three years he played in 13 games. although he only made an impact in the last 3 games of last season he still dressed. Thats almost a year of experience. Now factor in this season, another 13 games. 26 games is hardly a rookie. what has he shown? He can run down the field and make big catches but not on a consistent bais. Is that a #2 WR that will help win us a super bowl? Only if green is open all the time. He had his chances and hasn’t done enough in my opinion
And like I said
And if the coaches weren’t considering bringing him back
they’d play Caldwell at #2 on the outside where he’s "more comfortable".
by Oregonbengalsfan on Dec 16, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
I never said anything about not bringing him back
if you would read my post. I think they have every intention to bring him back. All I am saying is don’t give him a spot because of lack of experience. If anything someone should be given a spot because they have experience. Competition is a good thing.
As for caldwell, they have tried him all over the field and he was as inconsistent as simpson. Was it 09 when he fell off the last half of the season? I think he will be the one not coming back if anything because otherwise he would be getting more playing time.
Agree on Caldwell
and yes bring in competition for Simpson, but I haven’t given up on him either.
by Oregonbengalsfan on Dec 16, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
His development was hurt by other WR signings
He was basically shoved to the side for people like Coles and TO
by Oregonbengalsfan on Dec 16, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
I do agree with that
which is why he played only 13 games in three years. Thats why he got a “pass” from the coaches and fans for those years. I just look at the inconsistencies and mistakes that he had in those years that forced them to bring in those guys, and I don’t see the nesessary progress through this year to tell me he is going to improve much more then he is.
I don’t want it to seem like I have given up on this guy because I haven’t. I hope he becomes the guy that you think he can become. I am just looking at the team and thinking when will we stop thinking about the future with this guy and look at the now. I believe this team is a few pieces away and on offense, a #2 WR who can step up when green is covered is one of those pieces.
Agreed
People keep apologizing for him like this. It doesn’t make any sense to me. WHy wouldn’t you just be PISSED that it took him that long to get on the field? That says something about what kind of player he is, too. I just think we’ve seen his ceiling, and it’s “sporadically kind of above average.” Put that in a scouting report on any other 5th year free agent WR and tell me you want us to go out and sign that guy.
That’s what people need to start doing – thinking of Simpson and Caldwell as any old free agents on the street. Look at their game tape, their numbers, and their overall production and then say “Is this a free agent I think would make this team better?” You can’t honestly answer yes to that.
He had a pretty big game vs Baltimore while green was out...
by Bengalsfan024 on Dec 16, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
+1
But also was absent in the two against Pittsburgh….
would sooner see the bengals target simpson for a vet min contract
and another speedy wr fa in the sub 5 million range.
the weapons in 2012 need to be green, shipley, gresham, leonard (hands), and the new feature back. speedy wr is more or less for show or to keep other teams honest. we only need to target the burner 3-5x a game.
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
Weapons for 2012
RB – New + Leonard + Peerman
WR = Green, Shipley, Hawkins, Simpson, Tate(hes your burner), 6th guy is inactive so doesnt matter much
TE = Gresham, Cochart, Coffman.
by Bengalsfan024 on Dec 16, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
I would think about bringing up Binns too maybe in place of Tate
"When you see it open up and all you can see is the end zone, it’s hard to describe how relieving it feels." -Ced Benson
by ItsAlwaysSunnyInDayton on Dec 16, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
Forgot about Binns he would be good in this WCO... I'd use him to replace caldwell though
Caldwell only makes clutch catches if it hits him in the chest.
by Bengalsfan024 on Dec 16, 2011 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
and only if theres no defender around for caldwell to bobble the ball at
binns will get his chance next preseason
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
He doesnt always catch it then..
i always loved all the love caldwell got for catching a ball that hit him in the numbers. When dalton passes to Caldwell he is 200% more likely to get a pick than throwing to all other WR’s combined.
by Bengalsfan024 on Dec 16, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
i used to defend caldwell in 2009
appeared for a game or two, he was turning the corner and becoming a decent backup nfl wr. then came 2010 and 2011.
i was wrong. kevin spacey as lex luthor wrong.
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
I like your thinking, but the Saints will likely use the Franchise Tag on Colsten
Assuming they reach a long term deal with Brees (they most certainly will), the Saints will probably be more inclined to Franchise colsten (Brees favorite target) and let LG Carl Nicks test Free Agency. The reason I say the Saints will most likely tag Colsten instead of Nicks is because they are already paying their other pro bowl guard (Jahri Evans) a massive contract, which makes ir less likely that they would want to devote so much of their payroll to guards.
They may even reach a long term deal with Colsten before FA starts, but I get the sense that if they don’t, they will simply tag him.
With that said, let’s go all out and attempt to sign the best LG in football – Carl Nicks. The last big time FA olineman the Bengals signed turned into a stalwart and team leader – Bobbie Williams.
I would love an oline of Whitworrh-Nicks-Cook-DeCastro (or Glenn)-Smith.
And I’m sure A.D. would absolutely looooooove that Oline too!
Much rather have Nicks than Colsten (who I think will be franchised tagged anyway).
by The_Black_Stripes on Dec 16, 2011 1:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
overrated
the defense is duct-taped together. when the 8 man d-line rotation dropped to 7 man then 6 man, it hurt us.
when hall went down, our secondary was exposed.
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
Here is an idea...what if we manage to sign
Michael Bush away from the Raiders and then draft a RB that can receive/pount the ball?
he makes under 3 million this year
and the raiders fans seem to blame him for not carrying the team with a solid run game. they feel that when mcfadden went down, it really hurt their running game. will the raiders pursue bush in 2012? who knows. from a cincy side, it seems stupid not to. depends on how much they blame bush i guess.
current stats:
196 attempts 764 yards 3.9 average
i wouldn’t pay the farm for bush. a 5 million dollar a year contact for 3-5 years with some incentives to get his base up to 7-10 million with earn able bonuses.
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
Definitely not worth the "farm"
But he could be a good hammer at the goal line…and short yardage….
I do think the defense is overrated, and worse I think just the IDEA of it being great cost us the game last week
Spent some time away from the board this week because I was just a little too pissed about the game, clearly. But what I keep coming back to is Marvin’s mentality late in games. What I keep saying about Marvin is that he never sees a lead he doesn’t like. You could be up by 20 or you could be up by 2 and he’s going to play it exactly the same way. Run the ball, stay conservative, punt it away, and let your defense hold. ANd that’s been his philosophy no matter WHAT defense he was fielding. That was his philosophy when Chuck Breshnahan was trotting out the 31st ranked defense in the league. And that was his philosophy last week when Mike Zimmer was trotting out a very average, heavily injured defense whose top 10 ranking through most of the season had everyone’s head in the sand. Marvin should have recognized that his defense was not playing particularly well, that a “bend but don’t break” approach was one play away from costing him the game. That play turned out to be an18 yard QB scramble on 3rd and 17 (and then later a PI on Jones). But if Marvin had gone into the entire 4th quarter, and certainly the last 3 minutes, with the mindset that he had at best an average defense that was now injured and tired, he might have been more aggressive with his last offensive possession. A possession where the most aggressive move was trying to draw an offsides on 4th and 1 that ended up with a false start penalty.
I’ve said it for years. I really like a lot of things about Marvin Lewis. I think he has a really solid football mind, an eye for talent, and I genuinely think the vast majority of his players love playing for him. He could probably win national championships regularly at a major BCS school. But he doesn’t have the killer attitude it takes to win consistently in the NFL. He’s just good enough to be a .500 coach, and that’s almost EXACTLY what he has been for us.
I dont think im calling on the firing of marvin
Yeah he’s been an average guy but did you realy expect a team full of rookies and young guys to make it to the playoffs. The only reason we’ve benefited is from an easy schedule. Im looking and wanting to see where this team goes in in two years. aj greenand andy get more experience also we just have had a new offensive coordination and i think our oline could be a hundred times better. Also I dont think many people remember before marvin how this team was, and i dont want to promote our cordinators to coach then they do bad get fired and go somewhere else.
by bengalsfanforlife on Dec 16, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
Well we're definitely going to see what Marvin can do next year
It was such a strange signing. 2 year deal when the team is basically starting from scratch? And now a pretty surprising first season? I don’t think you can even consider giving him an extension yet because he hasn’t REALLY done anything, but then do you want a coach going tinto a contract year when the team is still so young? And what’s the expectation next year? Does he have to go deep into the playoffs to earn a new contract?
I just really think we should have moved on from him after last season. I understand the reasoning, I understand that he’s done a good job this year and all, but if we weren’t really willing to commit to him for a long term rebuilding process (which we shouldn’t have been since he hadn’t had much success in the 8 previous years) then we should have just looked somewhere else.
My problem
is no good coaches want to come here because of mike brown having too much control. One thing I think marvin exelled at is I feel it is him wrestling control of power from mike brown thats the only way I can see us making good moves in the FA’s good drafts and getting rid of ocho and palmer.
by bengalsfanforlife on Dec 16, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
also
supposedly mike browns daughter was the one who moved for us to hire marvin.Maybe its some kind of combination of her and marvin to get more power.
My ideal dream word solution would be marvin gets promoted as the teams gm we either find a good hc or promote zimmer to see how he is at hc. If hes bad we offer him the dc spot again. I think marvin is playing gm and coach and I think he is a better gm than coach.problem is with mike brown you have to play both.
by bengalsfanforlife on Dec 16, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
I agree....
Can’t we send Mike Brown to a retirement home? Maybe on a year-long world cruise….
+1000000000000000000000000
if this ever happened even though im in college I think I would buy season tickets.
by bengalsfanforlife on Dec 16, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Why stop at year long...
let the cruise get lost at sea
by Oregonbengalsfan on Dec 16, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
A 3 hour tour?
"When you see it open up and all you can see is the end zone, it’s hard to describe how relieving it feels." -Ced Benson
by ItsAlwaysSunnyInDayton on Dec 16, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
Then they could make a TV show about it...
Mike Browns Island…
by Bengalsfan024 on Dec 16, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
Would we be having this conversation,
if we had won last week?
I like where our team is
but they can get better the thing that makes me the most pissed off is we had two great corners and we let one just walk out the door and what did we need even when hall was not injured a corner. Not to mention joseph has had some injury problems but shouldnt it be regression to the mean. Leon hall has rarely been injured so he has a higher chance of getting an injury. With joseph this year we might have beat baltimore and pitt at least once if not twice and I think we would already have our stamp on a ticket to the playoffs. Now, we have to look for a cb in this draft or trade for one(asanta sameul?).
For the draft unless richerdson falls to us we dont take him we take the best non charecter issue cb. then the higher pick we use on guard to get rid of nate livings or move him down the depth chart. 2nd round we pick up a rb if we didnt get richardson. If we do get richardson maybe we get the best cb or a lb/de where we have had depth issues.
I like hawkins I saw the guy at training camp and he is short but he is quick and fast. definatly should be returning punts instead of tate. tate has the skills to return however, he doesnt have the instictuall knowlege of not to bring it out or dont fair cath beyond the 5.
look I know we all want richardson and I would welcome him to this team if he fell that far however the bengals have done better with latter picked rb’s (corey dillion and rudi johnsen). I say we keep benson get a rb maybe second or tIhird round and see which is better.
also we need some de’ and lb’s for depth and because injuries dunlap being out hurt us. We could also use more depth for rotation.
Simpson is still a number 2 wr he can make fantastic catches, he can also drop easy balls. I say right now he is a number 2. While I dont think weve seen him this season as much I think thats more of having a rookie quater back who is making one or two reads rather than a veteran quaterback who is reading each guy. I think we will select a wr in some round, most likely late and maybe two cause mike brown loves wr’s. I somehow wish we could get that blackmoon guy but he is going to high and we have aj green so probably no room for both. I saw a sports science on him and he is insane.
by bengalsfanforlife on Dec 16, 2011 11:32 AM EST reply actions
joseph wanted to leave
He said Houston offered him more guarenteed money, and had more.stability at qb, where we had nothing. My bet is most of it had to do with finishing with 4 wins, then losing your franchise qb, not a very appealing place to return to.
by JCompton41 on Dec 16, 2011 11:47 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
JJoe was on record
Wanting out of Cincy and spoke to a future team mate about Houston during the offseason. From what I’ve read, unless MB overpaid by millions, he wasn’t considering Cincy.
Simpson is nothing but a headache and won’t be back. If he’s not making a spectacular play, he’s a no show. He’s 4 years in the league and still don’t know what you’re going to get on game day. Then there are the drugs, an issue that is plain even if the courts don’t get involved. 8 pounds of pot in his house can’t be explained away to the coach.
The Bengals have first round needs at CB, WR, OT. Second round needs at OG and RB.
They can fix at least 4 out of 5 next April. That is very promising.
For someone who gets on to people who "jump to conclusions"
You jump to your fair share, even though you won’t admit it. We’ll revisit this next year when Simpson is back on the team
by Oregonbengalsfan on Dec 16, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
-1
You two the same person or do just always agree with each other?
No we've disagreed on other subjects
Just because you are afraid to admit something doesn’t make you right
by Oregonbengalsfan on Dec 16, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
Making a comment like that
I’d think the same of you. But hey, lets all bow to your knowledge of all things Bengals… wow, and you ask me how old I am?
by Oregonbengalsfan on Dec 16, 2011 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
Oh I can
but this fool is just out there
by Oregonbengalsfan on Dec 16, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Not taking it personal
he is though, evidence his comments. Instead of bringing viable comments he starts making personal digs…
by Oregonbengalsfan on Dec 16, 2011 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
I don't agree that Simpson has been a head ache
The pot found in his house hasn’t been a distraction at all. And that would be the only distraction from simpson.
AMAS
how bout simpson punching scott in the 4th quarter of the texan game?
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
wasnt on the tv feed
couple of the jungle fans were at the game and seen it. i got joe reedy to confirm it the following day.
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
notta clue
all we know, simpson came off the field in the 4th quarter, as he came by bernard scott on the sidelines, scott has his helmet half on his head, simpson struck the helmet in an unfriendly way, punches exchanged, heated words, separated.
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
thats crazy
but that probably happens a lot between players on every team. I still don’t see any signs as Jerome as distraction.
AMAS
im about 90% simpson will be back, unless he gets charged
Simpson is great when hes on, horrible when hes off. If he can pull it together Green and him become one of the best 1 2 reciever punches in the nfl, if not hes a great number 4 who can make plays. OT is not a first round need, as long as Collins returns, and Smith continues to play good. WR is not a first round need, you dont need two first round recievers. So IMO first round needs are CB, Saftey, OG, RB, but likely wont be first round players at those positions so its CB and whoevers best, guard, or maybe linebacker. Then second round RB, or OG depending on how first round went.
i agree somewhat
i think we take best available OG, CB, RB in any order for the first two rounds. Everything else can come later. Those are our biggest needs.
Plus Id rather get a lineman early, a stud at gaurd, because its more about protecting Daltion and establishing the run game in the AFC North. That will never change.
AMAS
brown loves to shop in his bargain bin of busted nfl careers
unless simpson is in jail or on trial, or matt millen gets a job as gm in 2012, i seriously doubt any other team will express interest in simpson. brown on the other hand, loves a bargain.
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
I still think nothing was done
like talking to him or trying to persuade him. I mean zimmer seemed mad when he left because I dont think he knew about it. Instead of spending millions on a guy we are now have to spend a few million on a guy we dont even know if he will be good. not to mention the ton of cap room we had and could have had a great team.
by bengalsfanforlife on Dec 16, 2011 11:51 AM EST reply actions
Really though we had to leave that room in case CP6 came back
I think next offseason will fill the cap
AJ Green = Optimus Prime
until the nfl makes a team spend the extra money (which doesnt kick in until 2013 or 2014?)
do you really think mike brown is going to splurge?
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
thats not necessarly true.
I think right now NFL teams collectively have to spend at least 90 percent of the salarly cap, I beleive. But since teams like, the steelers, who over spend on their own players. The Bengals may not have to spend that much at the end of this year.
But Im sure we will re-sign a few players
AMAS
for 2011 it went
There is no minimum payroll. Although, the 32 teams combined must spend $3.8 billion in cash, salaries and bonuses, by the end of the season. There is no set amount any team must spend on their payroll this season. The only salary requirement for 2011 is that league spends $3.8 billion.
If there had been a shortfall all 32 teams would have been responsible in making up a share of the shortfall. Come 2013 or 2014, there will be a hard floor again. I can’t recall which season it starts in again.
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
Now that he doesnt have Carsons 14 mil looming about
Yes brown has shown every indication he is trying to win now…
by Bengalsfan024 on Dec 16, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
yea they coukd have done more probably
But they don’t want to overpay a guy with an injury history like his. And Carson palmers crap made it not look good to return to. This looked like a team doomed for a few years of crap, and can’t blame a guy for not resigning.
by JCompton41 on Dec 16, 2011 12:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don't think our defense is overrated
We were without 2 of our best players on defense in Hall and Dunlap. When they went down, our defense slipped. Granted, we also need another CB opposite Hall who is a shutdown corner, but when Hall and Dunlap were on the field, the defense was borderline elite.
by Oregonbengalsfan on Dec 16, 2011 11:53 AM EST reply actions
i dont think so
Halls a very good second corner, and dunlap is a great pass rusher, but pacman hasn’t hurt us to bad, despite that stupid pi, and we still get pressure without dunlap. We don’t have a defensive game changer, until we have that the defense is not going to be elite.
by JCompton41 on Dec 16, 2011 12:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i guess borderline
I just don’t think they’re as good as the standings say. Browns are a top 10 d right now, are they borderline elite? But bengals get a few pieces they are an elite d, but I’m sure most teams can say the sane thing.
by JCompton41 on Dec 16, 2011 12:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree
We just need on more play maker since we lost JJO. Hall is solid and can’t wait to get him back. But Im hoping Mays can be that piece that takes us to the next level. Dude will cause turn overs!
AMAS
Agreed.
Our run defense was solid when Rey was out – Johnson and Skuta did well against run but not pass – and it took Rey a couple of games back to get his reads down.
Joel, get off the babysitter
by LookingDeep on Dec 16, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
Brandon Johnson
we need to pay and keep this guy
by Bengalsfan024 on Dec 16, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
in all fairness
imagine the ravens without reed and lewis or the steelers without harrison and polamalu.
the loss of dunlap and hall has a huge affect on this defense
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
RB
I don’t see a huge difference between Pressley as a blocking FB in there with Benson, and just giving Pressley the ball. Yes, Benson has more breakaway potential, but hesitating at the line kills him. If you had a FB you’re willing to give the ball to, use him and Scott at same time much like the Brooks/Woods combo.
Joel, get off the babysitter
Also I think benson is more
of a guy who isnt going to break a run and run 40 yards. but he is a hard worker doenst fumble as much as some backs(petterson) he is going to be consistent he is basically running for a first down and will usally get some good runs. I think also our plays are still predictable when we are going to run and our line isnt the best. this leads to a low ypc.
by bengalsfanforlife on Dec 16, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
I like benson as RB
until he gets inside the 5yrd line, it seems like he doesn’t know how to finish long runs or he is predictiable on the goal line stands. Thats why I would pick up Marion Barber for goal line situations!
AMAS
We definitely need a goal line short yardage back....
…I like Mike Tolbert, but Ill bet San Diego locks him up. If Hillis doesn’t re-up with Brown, I’d go after him.
i dont like hillis's heart
after the crap he pulled in cleveland this season, it’ll be shocking if anyone offers hillis real money in the off season. think how quickly willie parker went from probowl to out of the nfl for pulling the same crap
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
I'd Take hillis
and he be happy to be out of Cleveland…
They have been making mccoy throw more passes than brady.
crazy…
But id also like to see leonard and peerman get a fair shot not just with scrubs
by Bengalsfan024 on Dec 16, 2011 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
He would fit our system pretty perfectly actually.
He is a big, strong, tackle breaking, pile moving runner… WHO CAN CATCH! He basically would be I think the perfect fit for Gruden’s WCO. If we can we should definitely try to get him.
hard to say what the off season holds for hillis
the nfl tends to overlook some issues and a player can find easy employment. how many teams took a chance on TO or moss? yet if you quit on your team, sometimes nobody will touch you after that.
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
plus they will prbably franchise him
thats probably why he was acting up this year because he doesn’t want to be franchised next year
AMAS
Brooks/Woods combo
AWESOME Combo….we need another one like that…
Boobie Clark and Essex Johnson
"At the very end, somebody took a dump right where I stood in the dugout every day." Dusty Baker
pete johnson and alexander
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
Exactly--
That’s we need to remake or RB crew—in that mold. A bruiser who can carry the ball (not just block) and catch passes teamed up with a dude with game breaking speed. Benson and Scott aren’t that duo.
because I don't see Benson
blocking for another Rback. Believe it or not Charles Alexander did most of the blocking for Pete J.
"At the very end, somebody took a dump right where I stood in the dugout every day." Dusty Baker
Defense has been getting
gouged of late against the kind of teams the Bengals want to be. Run defense has given up over 100 yards on the ground for 5 straight games with the last three games giving up on average 134 yards/game. Is it poor linebacker play or poor line play? Either way the draft needs to address it.
With Leon suffering a very bad injury and Joesph gone, CB is in dire need of a first round pick in 2012.
Pacman is no better than a nickel back only because his personal conduct always puts him a risk of suspension.
Whats Ghee been doing?
With all the extra draft picks, the Bengals can fix most of their problems in April 2012 and whats left unfinished, FA can do the rest.
i can only imagine the size of the torch wielding mob in 2012
if the bengals don’t make the playoffs. i’m happy without marvin, i want nothing to do with another decade like the 90s. i’m also in the minority on this. we have more fans grumbling about marvin anytime the team loses a game.
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
Marvin should be the GM, Period
as far as schemes and evaulating talent, he is pretty damn good. But actually getting players to play up to their ability, is the question at hand.
AMAS
HEs better with personal and setting a good enviroment
than actually coaching imo..
I would love to see marvin as GM cause that means Brown is not GM.
And zimmer could stay as HC
by Bengalsfan024 on Dec 16, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
Running Game given up 5 straight 100 yarders?
and people dont wanna bring sims back?
I wanna bring sims back And draft Wolfe from UC in round 3+ if he makes it.
Wolfe next to Atkins…. would be nice… We could easily drop feanane(who wants a bigger contract anyways)
by Bengalsfan024 on Dec 16, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
Sims is decent but not crucial, i think he would be on the replaceable list
But if we can find a player like Atkins, Im all in. Even tho this is Atkins 2nd year, I would re-sign him in a heart beat!
AMAS
Yes he is....
Peko gets a lot of talk… But sims is the muscle there.
by Bengalsfan024 on Dec 16, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
Marvin has shown what he can do in a Mike Brown system
Division champion and no more. Maybe that is the best anyone can do in a Mike Brown system?
But who knows with this team. Right now they are 1-4 after starting 6-2. They should win on Sunday against the Rams but its not money in the bank. What if they go 1-7 for the last half? Should that happen after last seasons 0-10 streak, I don’t see how Brown can retain Lewis.
i think the only reason lewis is here now is because of the lockout.
I think this is his last year here as HC maybe becomes VP of Personel or something but not HC anymore…
by Bengalsfan024 on Dec 16, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
Related thoughts
—I’d give someone else’s right arm for a new OL coach. Alexander truly plays favorites. We’re always stuck with Livings, but Collins only plays when there’s an injury? Really?
—I was leery of the Taylor Mays trade, even at the great price. I’m tired of Marvin loving the physical freaks that struggle with fundamentals or have some issue that made them drop in the draft (for Mays, fluidity in coverage). But Mays is starting to win me over. I still think he’d make a better linebacker, though.
-as for the draft, I think CB is a vastly more important position than RB. CB and OG in the first. I’d actually like us to bring in a free-agent workhorse RB (Bush?) and then draft a scatback to replace Scott-someone like LaMichael James, maybe. I know, Marvin hates undersized RBs, and he’ll probably be too cautious to switch to two entirely new RBs. (I’d obviously keep Leonard.) But I think it would work. There are some good outside-running RBs in the draft this year, and if we paired one with an affordable between-the-tackles FA RB…
Jeff Demps
has to speed to beat just about anyone to the corner (4.26-40) and will probably be there in the 6th or 7th round. he would obviously be a change of pace back similar to Scott but faster and with softer hands
"When you see it open up and all you can see is the end zone, it’s hard to describe how relieving it feels." -Ced Benson
by ItsAlwaysSunnyInDayton on Dec 16, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
one of the rams fans in the game thread on TST asked about moving mays to OLB
have to admit, in some NFL systems, mays would make a solid OLB. in cincy, we need him more for safety.
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
Must be December
Time for the draft and FA threads.
My Humble Thought
Mike Brown wants to win for today without a clear plan about the next year. Pitt selects guys for next year. Mike Brown selects guys for now. Bandaid types who who can sell tickets. Peterson over AJ Green was the pick for the future when the talking heads have expressed concern with the Bengals Secondary? Whay not fix this hole last year? Is Dalton and Green the “our guys” next year or would have Peterson been the guy this year? Tough choise. Leon anJJ out? Who is the more important cog now? Simple for Zimmer. Give me what i need to protect our QB. Our QB with Lewis gameplan cant even score 20 points. Now my shoulders are heavy. How can i prepare for a game with a QB who brings no fear?! Dalton is only good for maybe 20 points at most. Peterson was worth the gamble! Peterson was the choise for Zimmer. Dalton has an average arm. AJ Green needs a strong Arm. Peterson is the guy the Bengals should have selected over AJ Green. Playing for NOW is Mike Browns Failure. Think of next year and just get better Mike! Passing on Peterson without a Proven Arm is Folly! Consider the future of need in the secontary? All the talking heads say the same. Or are you Crafty Mike Brown? Are you setting up the Bengals for the next years? Signed a Bengal Fan who will always be Orange. Did Mike Brown gamble on the unknown? Will the Secondary ever recover?!
Mike brown did take Steps
Adam Jones former first rounder… Plays really well. Was are backup plan incase joseph skipped town.. but he was hurt. so we had to go grab Clements. Ghee has been a little slow in progressing as well..
I would not trade AJ for Peterson.. Peterson whould have been nice. but without AJ our WR corps was Simpson/ Caldwell / Shipley. which is not enough. You need a new QB or Leverage to bring in a QB if needed. then AJ green is your guy.
Dalton has done well with the deep balls. with a guy like Green he doesnt need a cannon we dont need a QB to throw the ball 60+ yards. if you get a WR open in space for a 10 yard pass it can go 50 or 60 yards… Give dalton an offseason with the strenght trainers and QB coach and he will be even better.
This is the NFL and not everything goes as planned. We will get dalton some more support this offseason and Refresh the D. and next year will be better than this one
by Bengalsfan024 on Dec 16, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
I think part of the reason why we didn't go after Peterson
was because they must have thought JJO was coming back and AJ was way way to good to pass up!
AMAS
JJoe had told them he'd be back and gave no indication to the contraty till he signed
by Bengalsfan024 on Dec 16, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know what he told the Bengals
But on Sirius Radio back in June or July some Titan player said JJoe had discussed with him playing together right after the Super Bowl. Then add in his recent comments of how the CP9 situation went down, it seems clear JJoe had no intention of returning as of Feb 2011.
A week or 2 before the lockout
he said he would sign a franchise Tag today… and would love to stay in cincy.
by Bengalsfan024 on Dec 16, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
Daltons biggest problem this year.....
is the Guys around him not executing..
by Bengalsfan024 on Dec 16, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
Here's where I'm at with the offseason..
I think almost everyone is brought back, other than Caldwell, Bobbie, McGlynn, & Jennings. Remember that in (I believe) 2013 there will be a salary floor. All this debate about will Mikey spend, there’s no debate to be had. He will HAVE to. He will find Dalton a true #2 receiver and I think Garcon, Colston, Meachum, or perhaps even Bowe will be brought in. He has LOT’S of money to spend.
I think he has to sign a premiere OG. Nicks or Grubbs. Again he has to spend and this seems like the most logical spot, especially when you look at the rest of the FA class. WR and OG are the only real talent laden positions.
A CB will be taken in the draft, perhaps a couple of them. Maybe a RB, depends on if they pick one up in FA or not. Hopefully another guard, hopefully one in the first round.
If we come out of the offseason with a new starting guard, a starting DB, a true #2 receiver, and some solid depth this team remains on the right track. Without these things the team is wasting momentum.
come august
if we have benson coming back, a scrub guard, and a cheapo project cb projected as our #2/3 cb, i’ll be out on a ledge..
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
Offense for next year
I think there is much more upside in terms of raw talent with Simpson than with Caldwell, so I think they should keep Simpson and let Caldwell go. Green would be our #1 WR…but imagine combining him with a healthy Shipley, Simpson (after a year of being coached by Gruden to knock off the drops and stupid stuff), Baby Hawk, and 3 excellent receiving TE’s in Gresham, Lee, and Cochart. Wowsers…not a bad lineup at all for Dalton!
Dalton has definitely got the smarts for the game. Needs to work on his long passes. No surprise there. Not convinced Gradkowski is a good backup. And after seeing what Houston and KC have gone through, only having one backup QB worries me.
Bigger question in RB. Benson is durable, that’s for sure, but he is not a game-impacting runner. He’s “adequate”, and the Bengals needs something more. Keep Scott for backup RB and kickoff returns. Keep Leonard as well.

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