C'mon....
by Toasted_Orange_Monster on Dec 8, 2011 9:58 AM EST
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I wish we could see better play from the defense. I am getting sick of hearing that our winning was a fluke at the beginning of the season. It wasn't.... we had a healthy Dunlap, Leon Hall, Clements, Pat Sims. That's a lot to get over injury-wise. I think our draft strategy for next year has to really get deep on the OL and then just pump up the defense. Can anyone tell me the exact amount of picks we will have next year? I think didn't we get a extra 5/7 for ocho-stinko? I know the seasons not over, I'm gonna be rooting for the boys in orange on Sunday knowing we are going to the playoffs, but I can't help but see the holes in the team that we can fix next year. I think we can help the offense by getting a FA signing to give a real WR#2 to be across from AJ. Can you imagine Dalton getting to throw to AJ, WR(FA), Simpson, Shipley, Whalen, Hawkins, and Gresham. With a pump up on the OL Dalton will have time to throw, and if we draft or find in FA a good every down back to compliment Scott and Leonard, (we might have it in peerman, look what redman did) man our offense could be stacked like the packers. Heres to the win against Houston even though it won't be on TV(Such crap).
AD to AJ = TD.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors.
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Simpson won't be back
But I agree that a FA receiver would be huge. Marques Colston would be my first choice, but I don’t think the Saints let him get away. Still, with all the money we’re freeing up from Carson’s contract, it might be worth it to be really aggressive trying to get him. The Saints are already going to have their hands full trying to re-sign Brees so we could possibly get them in a position where they can’t afford Colston and instead settle on retaining Meechum. Colston would be an absolutely perfect #2 for AJ. He’s a Chris Henry type deep threat with the same kind of body length and control as AJ to help accomodate some of Dalton’s less accurate throws. With Shipley back, to me that is like having Chad in his prime along with Henry and TJ, only better at each spot. Scary.
I would
Happily welcome colston I agree but we won’t be his only suitors. Mikey boy will have to shell some cash out to get him. I guess he did pay for A Bryant so maybe he’d pop big again. My concern would be the A Bryant signing, because it was such a bust and we ended up drafting some good WR, I could see brown just saying screw paying a FA and he’ll want to draft on early. Let’s just hope Marvin has the control like last year. Man another draft like last years and we could be set in certain positions for years to come.
by Toasted_Orange_Monster on Dec 8, 2011 10:58 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Brown signed Coles and T.O.
I mean none of those three signing worked out particularly well, but clearly he’s open to the idea of signing a top receiver to play across from a clear #1. And Gruden has his ear now. In this league you pretty much need two #1’s anymore. Colston is definitely going to get paid, but I think we have the cash to be in the mix. With Dalton and AJ being as cheap as they’re going to be for at least the next 2-3 years, we have room to make a splash with either a guy like Colston or a RB like Bush or Forte. I think a receiver is a better way to go. Bring in a guy like Colston and he instantly makes the offense 100% better, effecting just about every offensive snap. Bring in a guy like Bush and he’s probably still going to be splitting carries with Scott and Leonard, and we can find a guy who can contribute right away in the draft to do that. A rookie WR might not have an impact for a year.
agreed
and I still think Coles was the best of the bunch. People seem to forget that Carson Palmer skipped that offseason and never seemed to even consider developing any kind of connection with Coles.
Plus, if I were Colston I would absolutely love the idea of playing for this team
Most teams going after receivers like Colston are going to be looking for a clear cut #1 receiver. These days, that means a guy who’s going to draw double and triple coverages on most plays. Wherever he goes, he’s probably not going to have a Drew Brees throwing the ball to him, so he could see his numbers drop dramatically if asked to be the primary target. Playing in a Jay Gruden offense, that is clearly very willing to lob the ball deep to any receiver, with a gunslinger young QB, across from a guy who is never going to have less than 2 DB’s covering him, Colston could explode. Throw in that we have the money to match any other offer he might get and I’d think it would be a great fit.
side note.. Forte
is he any good? It seems a silly question, but I honestly don’t know. I know he’s playing in a Mike Martz offense, which is hell for any RB, but his stats are just weird. It seems every time I see his stat line scroll across the bottom during a Bengals game it’s always like 10 for 23 or 8 for 15, just horrible ypc and almost never a TD, then suddenly he’ll blow up for 200 yards.
He's arguably the best receiving RB in the league after Ray Rice
And while we’re on the subject, remember that Rice is also going to be a free agent next year. THough I don’t think there’s a chance in hell Baltimore lets him go. They’d let Flacco walk before Rice.
But with Forte’s latest injury, he might be too much of a question mark. When healthy, he’s a much better fit for a WCO than a Martz offense. He’d be even better here than he is in Chicago.
Debatable
They’ve put the ball in the hands of the Unibro recently. Dumb decision, but it’s Baltimore we’re talking about.
"It’s time people started realizing just how good a player Carlos Dunlap already is, and that starts with the Bengals. They gave him a season-high 58 snaps and what was the result? Carnage on the right side of the Seattle line." -Pro Football Focus
I'm a Forte believer
The dude has good-great short area quickness, great vision and explosiveness. The MCL sprain is not a big deal in the scheme of things. I think he’s worth the money he’ll get paid.
Forte is a top 5 back (agruably)
i live in chicago and get to see a TON of him play. he was almost 45% of the offensive production and is a sick dual threat back. he runs hard and has the burst to take long runs to the house,,,unfortunately Angelo is playing this thing perfect and will franchise him, run him into the ground next year then probably let him walk
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
so is it just bad timing on my part
when I happen to see a stat update or does he pretty consistently get around 2.0 ypc for 2+ quarter stretches?
colstons gonna get paid to be a number 1
Don’t think they pay him that much.
by JCompton41 on Dec 8, 2011 11:14 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
just out of curiosity...
is Meechum a nickname? We are talking about Robert Meacham, right? I’m not trying to be a spelling nazi, but it seems every time someone mentions that kid it’s spelled Meechum, no matter who is posting.
Actually I always spell it Meachum...
Not sure why I didn’t this time…
I agree our defense needs to get healthy and play more consistent
As for free agency, I know we have a lot draft picks but I hope we are aggressive as hell in free agency next year as well. We HAVE to spend the money in 2013, so I’d hope they start next preparing for that this offseason so we don’t end up scambling @ the end and throwing money on players who do not deserve just so we can hit the cap min. in 2013
Although I like Geathers and Rivers, I think at this point I’d let both of them go. I’ve gone back and fourth on Rivers b/c he’s still under our control but I think you could resign Manny Lawson on a multiple year deal for about half the money which would we better value and I don not see us bringing both of them back, although that would be nice. As for Geathers he’s too expensive as well for what he offers. With Carson and those two off the books we could resign the rest of our own then go out and kill it in free agnecy as well as the draft.
Lastly, I’d target N.O. for free agents. Breeze is going to get a huge deal and they still Closton, Meechum, Carl Nicks (great guard) and Tracy Porter (CB) to sign plus a couple other dedensive players. IMO, there’s no way they can resign them all with having to give Breeze a new huge deal.
I really like Carl Nicks
Was reading an article about him yesterday. He’s an absolute monster. If we could sign him, it could really free up our first round picks so that we wouldn’t necessarily have to target DeCastro or Glenn. Could let us focus more on the secondary and RB spots.
would love to get nicks
He’s a top guard and will get good money, so who knows if mike brown will pay that for a guard. He did try to sign gallary.
by JCompton41 on Dec 8, 2011 2:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Who are the Bengals losing this year?
I expect/hope for Simpson & Benson to be gone, but I haven’t really looked at who’s contracts are coming up. Until we see who gets re-signed the draft picture is still pretty cloudy. That said, we definitely need another body at CB even if all the current roster guys stay. I’d feel a lot better with Clements as the 3rd corner and still don’t really trust Adam Jones to be consistent and/or out of jail.
A LOT of defensive players
Rucker, Fanene, Sims, Jones, Geathers, Jennings, Lawson…There’s more. Some of those guys were brought in as stop gap measures this last offseason. I can’t imagine we keep Jennings around. Geathers is too expensive. I would love to keep Jones as a nickel and PR, but he’s playing well and he’s going to want to go somewhere he has a chance to start, so I do think you keep Clements as a #3 guy behind Leon and a top draft pick. Hopefully Ghee is ready to contribute next year. Same with Robert Sands and Dontay Moch. Other than that I think we re-sign the entire D-line aside from Geathers. Sims might be a question mark now with the injury, but hopefully it’s not that serious. If we do what I hope we do and draft Derek Wolfe then he might be expendable, too.
On offense there’s also Caldwell, Bobbie, Lee, and I think Leonard. Plus it will be a contract year for a few of guys – Andre Smith, B Scott, Collins. There’s no real huge names anywhere for a change. I don’t see any reason why we shouldn’t be an improved team next year talent-wise.
I think they have to resign Jones at this point
We do not know how Leon will come back from his injury. I think I heard that only around 50% of players with similiar injuries have been able to make a full recovery. We also only have Clements for one more year, therefore even if I draft a Cb in the first round I’m definitely doing everything I can to resign Jones. Next year Jones, Clements, first round pick, and then you can throw Leon in the mix assuming he’s healthy.
I'm hoping Jones gives us a bit of a discount
He says he loves playing for Zimmer, and I think if we told him that he’d have a shot to earn a starting job (which would be completely true since we don’t know how Leon’s going to come back) then we’d have a chance to keep him. I just hope that if it comes to opening day and he’s #3 on the depth chart he doesn’t get an attitude about it. ANd I also think that if we keep him and add depth at CB we can move him back to returning punts, which would be huge.
All of our secondary outside of like Hall, Crocker, and Clements.
"It’s time people started realizing just how good a player Carlos Dunlap already is, and that starts with the Bengals. They gave him a season-high 58 snaps and what was the result? Carnage on the right side of the Seattle line." -Pro Football Focus
I would rather trade up and get Blackmon if we go for a WR
It would be great to have him or another top WR to pair with Green, but I still thing Simpson could very well be that guy. I don’t care if it is in the draft or FA we need to put more money in the Oline and D secondary, both CB and Safety I think we get 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. Four of them need to be (2) OL guys, a S and CB. If we hit on those I don’t care who else we draft. Gine Dalton and even Benson a real quality Oline and they can do great things.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
agree with everything
except Blackmon, I honestly haven’t followed or scouted him, and Benson. He’s shown the ability to be low-end-mediocre behind any line.
Blackmon is incredible
He has the potential to actually be better than AJ. You could argue he had a better year last year than AJ, and he did it as a sophomore. If there was a realistic way to get Blackmon, I’d love it. But that’s WAY too much of a luxury pick right now given our problems in the secondary. If we’re going to move up high enough to get Blackmon, we should be targeting Claiborne or Kirkpatrick.
Agreed
I would love Blackmon but not at the cost of not getting two OL with our first four picks. The O line is the Achilles of this offense
by Toasted_Orange_Monster on Dec 8, 2011 2:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I am not really touting getting Blackmon the way I used to. I realize it would
probably take one of our firsts and probably our 2nd rounder to get him. (No way I trade both 1sts for him). But I will tell you right now that the Browns will be in the prime position to get him and they will take him if they get the chance. Nonly would we have a formidable WR corps with Geen, Blackmon, Shipley and Gresham we would not have to play against him twice a year for the next ten years. We would stii have 3 top 3 round picks to get the Ol, S and CB and we could probably package a few lower round pick to a team that needs quantity more than we do. I know that there are many arguements against this and they do have merit. But man the WR corp would be formidable even if we only upgraded the OL a bit. If you are a DC how do you game plan for a WR corps like that?
Pkay, I will get off it but a guy can dream can’t he?
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
let the browns take Blackmon
and then have no QB to throw him the ball or just under-develope him like they did Braylon Edwards…
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
When have you ever seem Benson run behind a good OL? How do you know?
I agree Benson isn’t going to be a big time stud RB but he is okay. With a good OL he might be pretty good. I know he has never had one here and I don’t think the Bears OL was that great when he was there either.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
The Bengals o-line opens up huge holes for him
and when they do he usually gets as much as they giftwrap for him, nothing more. If being able to get 5 yards when the line gives you 5 yards without getting touched qualifies you as a good back, then Benson is one. By that logic you, me, Marvin Lewis, hell even Mike Brown would be pretty good RBs.
I’m sick of having a RB who only gets what the line gives him. We need someone who can break tackles and/or make people miss. Benson doesn’t do those things.
I agree that Benson doesn't break anything but arm tackles. I agree there but...
I really don’t think the Oline is opening that many huge holes. They need to do better as well. But, I see your point a worthy RB makes a lot of his yerds after first contack. I didn’t say he was goos. I said he was okay. You probably aren’t going to win and SBs with an okay RB.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
i dont see any reason not to bring simpson back
He’s not going to be a lot of money, and he has talent. He shouldn’t be a number 2, and I don’t see any team paying him like a number 2. Sign him cheap, bring in a solid 2, I like Garcon as a realistic option, and this team has weapons all over. Aj as the stud reciever, Garcon deep threat, shipley solid slot, Simpson as a big play 4, and would be Chris Henry like going deep from the slot, hawkins gets a few plays, greshem as a beast tight end. Draft a guard, or sign a great guard, and the line will be top 8 in the NFL. With that core of pass catchers and that line this offense will be tough to stop. Add in a runningback or can get more than 3 ypc, and maybe make a guy miss, and wow.
by JCompton41 on Dec 8, 2011 2:28 PM EST via mobile reply actions
You don't see him
turning around to head back to the huddle with his head down and an angry look on his face while the ball is still in the air? I do, and it pisses me off. Fire him and bring in someone who is willing to raise their arms and even jump once in a while.
It is kind of a mystery because jumping and making acrobatic catches is what he
was know for at Coastal Carolina. Vid of him in college shows a different guy than we are seeing. But, he has only played in 14-15 games and it usually takes longer than that for a WR to get the lights to come on. I think he is worth keeping simply because he has the physical ability and potential.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
The first time a guy leaps and takes an NFL hit
while his melon is ten or twelve feet off the ground, can change his perspective. It’s the cause of the alligator arms phenomenon.
exactly
A week or three ago Dwayne Bowe was targeted on a late game pass that could have made a huge difference. Might have even been the Pittsburgh game. If I remember right he was in the end zone. He jumped, but instead of reaching for the ball he kept his arms pinned to his sides because he was afraid of getting hit. Some guys, no matter the physical ability, just don’t have the heart to play in the NFL. Bowe might recover from that, he’s had some really good games and others he’s disappeared, but Simpson doesn’t have the smarts to play in the NFL either. He’s got athletic ability, but no heart and no brain = no reason he should be in the NFL.
Last week Simpson was targeted, what, 4 times? How many times did he put even the slightest attempt into making the catch? I don’t remember a single time.
Brains, physical ability, and heart. Those are the three things that make up a football player. Some guys are smart enough to make up for some physical shortcomings. Some guys are athletic enough to compensate for lacking brains. Neither of the first can make up for lacking heart.
I'm normally not THAT inclined to agree with this kind of thing
But that was before I started watching AJ play the game in this league. That kid is just FEARLESS and in a way I’ve never seen before. He’ll put every inch of his body on the line. A lot of guys have been willing to do that before, but not many guys have had so much talent in every one of those inches. When AJ stretches out and opens himself up to hits, he makes catches that no oen else in the league can make. It’s downright inspring. God I love that kid. I was one of his biggest proponents around here last offseason. I hope everyone’s satisfied now.
I think it is unfair to compare Simpson the Green. Green is special.
Unless I am mistaken, and yes I know I am more than I wish, Green may be one of the top 3 WRs rookies in NFL history by the end of the year. Don’t misunderstand my support for Simpson. I realize that he is underperforming and it is possible that he has lost his heart, but he has big time physical talent. I would not extend his current contract as is. But he can contribute and WR is a difficult position for a guy who has started fewer than a seasons worth of games. We have a lot invested in him and he is worth one more shot next year. Then it is all on him to step up.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
I disagree completely
I feel this year was his chance to prove he’s a real NFL caliber player and he hasn’t done it. To me it’s obvious that he feels he proved to the world that he’s elite in the last couple games last year so now he can be a TO-like diva with alligator arms. Instead of proving his worth, he seems to be sulking. Even if he didn’t have the off field problems, and boy does he have off field problems, his attitude on the field is enough for me to want him gone.
i disagree
it took him almost 3 years to learn Bratkowski’s offense, then he did and he went crazy the last 3 games last year….a guy w/his slow learning curve can’t be expected (realistically by fans) to pick up a new offense w/out an offseason to install it…i know he gets paid for it, but mentally his football IQ isn’t capable of doing that.
That being said, he could definately be putting forth more effort on some of the balls thrown his way, and needs to be focusing more on the small things/details of being a WR (coming out of routes crisply, running routes consistently at the same depth to help your QB, timing out of breaks, getting his head around etc)
I don’t think he’s lost his heart or that the fire inside him has gone out- he’s still one hell of a blocking WR, and to me that says alot about the heart of a WR
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
he does block, I'll give him that
but he also gives up on passes before they even get to him. As for his inability to read a playbook in less than 3 years, do you really want to wait another couple years for him to learn this one? Knowing that there’s talk of Gruden getting an HC spot as early as next year, meaning another new offense?
no i dont want to wait for him to pick up another new offense
but i think Grudens playbook is MUCH more simple to learn than Brat’s was…and given a full offseason (plus this season) to learn it shoudl be enough. If we can sign him on the cheap (which we can) i think we could afford to stick w/him another year——and i’m not saying we still dont go after a stud FA WR….depends on how cheap we can get Rome to stick around….i think Caldwell is odd man out, and again i agree w/you his lack of effort this year on certain passes (about 30% of balls thrown his way) is something that needs to be corrected immediately, if it can’t be….then get rid of him
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
I'd actually think the opposite
I dont’ think there’s anything SIMPLE about Gruden’s playbook. It’s a bit SIMPLER for a rookie QB to run because it involves a lot of short and intermediate stuff, but I actually think it has a ton more wrinkles in it for everyone who isn’t playing quarterback. That being said, I don’t think Simpson did anything like “master” Bratkowski’s offense at the end of last year. I think He just got put in the X spot when Chad went down and everyone on the coaching staff said “F it…just throw it long to Simpson and see if he can catch anything. Not like we have anything to play for.”
If the guy had one more year on his rookie contract I’d say give him another chance. But that’s what this year was for. He hasn’t shown he’s worth a free agent contract. If we were any other team, would we seriously be talking about the possibility of picking up hot free agent prospect JEROME SIMPSON? Of course not. Divorce the whole draft stock from the equation and look at him as just another free agent on the open market.
I believe
That our draft choices are:
2 First rounders (CIN, OAK)
1 Second Rounder
2 Third Rounders (CIN, Compensation for JJoe)
2 Fourth Rounders (CIN, compensation for Evan Mathis)
2 Fifth Rounders (CIN, NE)
1 Sixth Ronder
1 Seventh Rounder
I think it’s a total of 11 picks—I could be wrong though.
Some guys/positions I’d like them to target in each round
Round 1: CB, OG
Round 2: WR (Ryan Broyles), RB (Montee Ball), S (T.J.McDonald)
Round 3: DE, DT, CB
Round 4: OT, OG, WR
Round 5: DE, DT, LB (Chris Galippo)
Round 6: S, QB, LB
Round 7: CB, RB, WR
CincyJungle Writer
Follow me on Twitter: @CUIBengalsFan
thanks
I wasn’t sure so I appreciate it now I can delve into the depths of how I would like to draft next year!
by Toasted_Orange_Monster on Dec 8, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
I like most of your picks
If we have two 3rd round picks I would prefer to get another OG and another CB (if we only have one 3rd go CB or S). QB should not even be considered until the 7th or UFA. If we really want another QB Case Keenum in the late 7th or Kellen Moore as UFA to be possible projects. RB needs to be addressed in the 2nd ( I like the Montee Ball pick)
"When you see it open up and all you can see is the end zone, it’s hard to describe how relieving it feels." -Ced Benson
by ItsAlwaysSunnyInDayton on Dec 8, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
We need quality not quantity. I might think about trading away rounds 5 thru 7
to move up a 4th to a 3rd and a 3rd to a 2nd. Just bring in 5 really good rookies and not dilute the coaching staff for they can give these guys some real one on one attention. Suppliment another position maybe 2 using the money we don spend on the 4-5 guys we don’t even bring in. Do the same thing next year and that is 9-10 high quality rookies and 1 yr vets added to the team. I know this is outside the box but this is just discussion – right?
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
broyles wont even run before the draft
He will probably go round 4 or lower now.
by JCompton41 on Dec 8, 2011 3:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
We will have the opportunity to have a bunch of starter in their rookie contracts under the new CBA
which could mean we are forced to spend bucks in free agency. We extended quite few guys this year, We could actually be forced to overpay for FA’s.
Can we get a bad ass RB that can also return kicks as our second 1st round pick?
And the best CB available for our first 1st round pick?
Then OG, WR, S, and a bucket of Spackle?
Wrong! Conan! What is best in life?
To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.
only is the spackle
can be all defense !!!
by Toasted_Orange_Monster on Dec 8, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
NEEDS???
And next year they will be seasoned and ready.. Shipley will return, Simpson will be gone and everyone else will be better. Hopefully it means we score more.
We need Offense!
- Need young gifted linemen cause our guys are just not cutting it.
- A new prolific running back to replace CED and Scott.
We need a return specialist on “Special Teams” – Someone who can field the damn ball, secure it, and not fumble!
We need DEFENSE!!
- Corners who can shut down and tackle, who are no smart but intelligent and can read the Offense correctly.
- Tall Safteies who can FLY to the ball and can tackle! Hard hitting and again, intelligent!
I represent the Bengals of Cincinnati with extreme passion and prejudice and make no apologies for it!
WE NEED SHUT DOWN CORNERS!
If J.Jo. & hall were still our tandem & healthy……We’d be 10-2 right now.
Think about all our close losses and how they occured
If we can man-up on the outside then our front 7 will be just that
more effective at getting to the QB. and our safeties can roam around
and intimidate people….ala………….The David Fulcher day’s
The NFL is a game of inches & seconds. If we have corners who can play man to man
for just a few seconds more, then our front 7 can get those (many more) sacks we’ve been missing by just mere inches.
Defense wins Championships!
That's why I want us to trade up and go after Claiborne
Jenkins and Kirkpatrick are a bit of a gamble. THey’ll both be really good, but they could top out at “Leon Hall” good, meaning a really good #2 CB that needs to be covering #2 receivers to shut them down. If we draft Claiborne to be our #1 guy and move Leon back to #2, it’s like adding 2 shutdown corners to the defense whereas right now we have zero, even with a healthy Leon.
If Taylor Mays can develop under Zimmer this offseason and reach his potential at SS, we could be looking at a completely revamped secondary just by adding one draft pick. That’s why I think it might be worth a few of our ELEVEN draft picks (that’s a ridiculous amount of draftees that we won’t be able to sign all of) to go up and get Claiborne.
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