Jay Gruden: We Are Going To Pound The Ball
by Josh Kirkendall on Feb 3, 2011 6:00 PM EST
in Coaching News
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PrintSee that face. Look again. Right there. Marvin Lewis' smile.
During an interview last week with the NFL Network during one of the North Team's practices, Marvin Lewis pointed out that he wants the Bengals to have a power rushing offense again in 2011.
"I think we did click a little bit in the no-huddle offense as we got going in the season and it may have affected some of our detail of how we were doing things in the running game because you can't serve two masters that way. The no-huddle takes work on its own to get everybody on the same page all the time. That's the one thing if we look back on again we probably make that revision."
It makes sense. The team's best seasons during the Marvin Lewis era -- both winning seasons, mind you -- the team had a fantastic rushing offense. In 2005, it was generally used as a change of pace to keep defenses honest and a clock-killer late in the game. In 2009, it was the team's primary method of moving the football, using the passing game as a change of pace.
Unfortunately in 2010, the passing offense and rushing offense struggled. The team didn't have the other to go to and there was no defense to bail the offense out. It was a mitigated disaster all around, but that's not really new knowledge, is it?
During Thursday's press conference introducing Jay Gruden (the one where Marvin looks so happy to be alive), the team's new offensive coordinator made it a point to emphasize that the Bengals will run the football down your damn throat and the only thing that you're going to do is say, "thank you, may I have another?"
"We have to run the ball between the tackles," Gruden said. "We have to be a physical team up front. We're going to challenge our offensive line to be physical. We're not going to spread out and go no huddle every down and throw the ball 65 times a game. I intend on pounding the ball and being able to pound the ball."
YEA. POUND THAT SHI... Just as Marvin Lewis wanted. And who said this hire was made by anyone other than our head coach? We're not going to say that this team is changing at the level we all believe it needs to be made. But...
Power rushing game and west coast offense, here we come.
Now, only if we actually knew who that running back would be and if our quarterback was actually going to play football in 2011.
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nepotism
Brown: Paul >>> Mike
Shula: Don >> Dave
Palmer Carson>>Jordon
Gruden: John >>? Jay
Mike Brown has a pattern of picking personal who are related to good football people. [Possibly, a interesting aspect of Mike Brown’s neurosis, hoping that if one of these people can outshine their father/brother, maybe he can to. Or he’s just lazy]
Maybe it will work out this time, but I’m not hopeful. On the other hand,I suppose he can’t be worse than Brat
by R.F. Mehl on Feb 3, 2011 6:11 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Thats kind of how I feel about it too..
I think by signing the one of the most sought after NAMES (not actual person) in coaching right now Mike Brown thinks this is enough to fool fans in to thinking we’ve got something special here.. This is a ploy to sell season tickets.. Are you buying it.. I’m not.. I hope this guy does great don’t get me wrong.. I’m just not excited about it because a Super Bowl winning coach, that Marvin won a Super Bowl under, was available and we didn’t get him.. We got a UFL Champion..
downer
if I end up going to school tomorrow, you will have half in ruining my week. nevermind power outages, just you and school lol
Flying is as simple as throwing yourself at the ground and missing
Don't cave into Bengals fatalism my friend.
One important difference is that this appears to be Lewis hire, not a Brown hire. Another is that this guy has a proven track record of winning in a pro style system. Yet another good sign is that he appears to be on the same page with Lewis (something Brat never ways). And finally, you said it yourself, he’s not Brat.
This is our year!
I’ll try to be optimistic. You’re right, he has been a successful HC, and is therefore competent. Being a NFL caliber OC is unfortunately yet to be seen.
I’m guessing the best OC candidates were hired in the last month, when normal teams changed coaches, and with ticket sales down, there is a motivator to value someones name over the actually important criteria (experience/intelligence/personality).
However, we did hire ZImmer, so maybe we are moving in the right direction.
I look at it this way
The chiefs promoted their OL coach to the OC. The Dolphins recently hired Cleveland’s old OC to be their OC. I’ll give Cincy credit for not bringing in some stale guy with NFL ties. I’m much more enthusiastic about Jay Gruden’s background than I would be if they brought in an NFL lifer who hasn’t made much of a name for themselves or an unsuccessful retread OC like the two hires I mentioned.
I’m also more concerned about the scouting, player development and skilled player retention than I am in who calls plays, but I think from coaching and scheming perspective, this is a hire with a solid upside.
by Cedric Benson Boat Party on Feb 3, 2011 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
No wonder Benson was so giddy
I would have loved to see his reaction to that conference
Flying is as simple as throwing yourself at the ground and missing
Josh, I think is the most aggresive tone I've seen you use
and I like it!
Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.
I like the signing.
I’m also excited to see the evolution of the offense. Will Palmer be a good West coast QB? Who knows….if Mcnabb can play a west coast so can Palmer.
I'm sorry
but, unless we get five new starters on the offensive line, we ain’t pounding the ball on anyone- at least in the AFC North. 2009 was a fluke and opposing defenses had pretty much recovered from the surprise at such an antiquated, Woody Hayes-era offense lining up across the line of scrimmage by the last quarter of the season- and shut it right down. A run-first philosophy is just not the way to win in the NFL. When I kept hearing all day from different sources what an innovative offensive mind Jay Gruden had, I was excited. Now? Same $hit, different day.
I couldn't disagree more
The Steelers reverted back to a run first offense and they seem to have had a decent year. Hell, they lost their starting QB and still went 3-1. And just because you’re a pass first team, it doesn’t automatically make your offense better (We ought to thank God every day that we didn’t go after McDaniels).
And I think you’re underestimating our offensive line. Yes, there are holes to fill, but there is also some good talent starting with Whitworth, Williams, Collins, and yes, tits McGee. Plus, they seem pretty eager to draft a lineman early this year, which ought to add to it.
And 2009 was not a fluke. They committed to running the football (unlike last year) and they had good results. Expect the same in 2011.
This is our year!
But, by the end of 2009,
it wasn’t working anymore and, as for Pittsburgh, they go as Rapistberger goes, not with their running game- the first four games being an exception. Even Baltimore isn’t a run first team anymore.
by IgnatiusJReilly on Feb 3, 2011 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not saying the 2009 team didn't have flaws
I just don’t think that choosing to run the ball was one of them. Mostly I agree that the line needs to be upgraded, I just don’t think that they are much worse than average. A little less Roland, a little more Colliins; a new guard (in the second round); A healthy Smith (knock on wood), and they’ll be a pretty solid unit. Not great, but solid.
This is our year!
Towards the end of the season, the Ratbirds started to lean more towards the run when they realized Flacco's press was better than he was.
And besides, 2009 caved cause we lost Slim. This prevented us from getting the explosive plays that are critical for momentum swings and it brought defenses down the top. Lord knows why they kept using Caldwell like a possession receiver but that’s the biggest reason. Defenses could cheat up and the pass game could essentially be covered by covering Ocho and watching Coles and Caldwell and that one Tight End that was absolutely atrocious drop passes all day long.
I disagree that we didn't commit to running the football
I think we just fell behind in so many games that would couldn’t play the way we want. TO, and Chad may have had something to do with that to, but I chalk up the pass total to circumstance more than anything.
Committed or not
by week 12 of the 2009 season, the newness and effectiveness of that power-rushing scheme was over. Not having the line for it was a big part of that inevitable collapse. We came into this season with essentially the same personnel and the same scheme and were promptly reminded that it had, pardon the pun, run it’s course. It wasn’t so much being behind- with the exception of the first game at NE. It was that it just didn’t work. We just couldn’t pull it off. Benson deserves some of the blame for his tendency to stutter step before hitting the hole but he was really dancing for his life back there as defenders roamed the backfiield like they’d bought real estate. Power-running takes POWERFUL personnel. Bobbie Williams used to have it. I don’t know if he still does. Andre Smith has it, if he can stay on the field. Whit is an adequate runblocker. The jury’s still out on Collins. Cook barely holds his own and struggles as the bellcow of that line. Mathis, Livings, and Roland really need to look into another line of work.
by IgnatiusJReilly on Feb 3, 2011 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sick of people saying stuff like "your underestimating the line"
Have you seen Tom Brady’s time in the pocket? I’m sorry but to be elite in this league you have to have an elite line on both sides of the ball… I made this argument all last season. We need to upgrade talent and competition on the line.. Everyone said “your underestimating”.. Bull Crap! Draft lineman high! and sign some PROVEN TALENTED vets to protect our QB. I’d want out if my line was as inconsistent as ours is year in and year out.. Notice Carsons reason for wanting to leave is “inconsistencies in the team”.. I think that means he’s sick of getting pulverized because Mike Brown has neglected the trenches since 2006..
No need to get sick of anything. I agree with most of what you're saying.
1. It’s pretty clear that I’m in the minority of opinion, so I challenge you to actually find one other person who used “underestimating the line” phrase.
2. I agree with you that the line needs a talent upgrade, so why do I feel like you’re yelling at me?
3. The line graded out as average-above average in pass protection, and below average in run blocking this year by people who pay much better attention than I do (Like pro football focus). I’ll take their word that we’re not as bad as most fans think.
This is our year!
Not as bad
but we would need to be far above average at run-blocking to implement this archaic scheme.
by IgnatiusJReilly on Feb 3, 2011 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
You implement a scheme for the future, not just one year.
The first year you do the best you can and then you upgrade the talent to fit the scheme as you go along, and get better and better at it each season. And this is not an archaic scheme. Just because he doesn’t have a spread offense doesn’t mean he can’t be successful. A lot of the best teams in the NFL run variations on the WCO and like to pound the ball. And I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised with the packages this guy can come up with.
by Cry on Feb 3, 2011 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
I pretty well agree with you Jim, but......
I don’t think that Pittsburgs OL is elite at all. Yea, they, especially with the pick of Pouncy, have improved. You do not need an elite OL – even in this division. You need to be able to fight hard in the trenches to open holes and give the QB time – but if the RB doesn’t hit the hole hard and hold onto the rock – if the QB does not use what time he has to throw accurately to receivers who are where they should be it doesn’t really help that much. Yea our Oline need some help especially as LG and RG. I still kinda like Cook because he seems to handle the calls well and he has a mean streak and I still think it is possible that A. Smith can live up to his potential. But, the Oline is not the reason we had a bad year. We had a bad year because of poor leadership, a lack of discipline and poor preparation. In at least half of our losses we were playing teams we should have beaten – but the team just was not properly prepared. Put these same players in the Steelers camp with their coaching, organization and work ethic and IMO they are talented enough to achieve far more than they can the way things are here. I believe that – I really d – I believe it in my heart.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
Patriots and Colts
When they had elite OL (which right now Peyton doesn’t)
That Offense is unstopable.
Livings graded out horrible as well as Roland. I’ll post the bengals OL rankings and grade when i dig and find them again. But it wasn’t pretty. Yea there were a lot of issues outside of the OL. But win in the trenches win the ball game.
Hopefully my picture doesn't show my bias.
I do get your point CByers and it is not a bad one............
I am not arguing that our Oline is fine or even good. There is no doubt that it needs work, particularly in the guard positions. I also admit a bit of bias regarding Cook as he is a bit light in the butt to hold back the 3-4 defenses we see in the AFCN. I just love his intensity and effort. In fact the only position that I really consider good enough is Whit. I will grant you that and I think that is the first area we need to address in the draft and FA with the possible exception of FS. ( i am reasonably confident the Benson, CP and JJ will be back)
My point is that as bad as it is it pales in comparison to the overall inability of the organization to properly prepare them and have them ready to play. We could have all pros across the line, but if they don’t clean up all of the other issues it still won’t put us on par with the better teams in the league. Position wise I agreee that the Oline needs the most work but it is not the players but how they are trained and motivated that is the real problem. Top notch game planning and preparation as well as coaching decisions during the game itself will keep us from having the team we deserve to have. I maintain the if the entire Steelers team and Bengals team exchanged players within a couple of years the Steelers would be where they are now again as would we.
I am a business man and I will tell you that if I gave all of my money to a loser who can’t compete within a relatively short period of time I would have the money back and the other guy would be broke again. It is not what we have on the field – it is what we have in the rest of the organization that is the real problematic issue. How many great college players have, over the years come here to “die” while lesser players go to winning teams and become all pros? We just had two of the better years I can remember in the draft and there isn’t an all pro performance among them. I am not sure, but I think we might be the only team not to have a single all pro player over the last two years That is my point.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
Anybody else excited about this guy?
I love his attitude. He seems to have a Rex Ryan Light edge to him. He’s Confident & makes bold statements. Thats the kinda guy (like Zimmer too) that players rally around
Rex Ryan Lite? Sounds refreshing.
great taste less filling!
OH Yeah! Duffman's pelvis is thrusting in the direction of the problem!
TO: "Coach said he would address that."
I'm absolutely back on the bandwagon of being stoked for the 2011 season (hopefully there is one!)
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
I love Bengal fans. I really do. So does Mike Brown - for a different reason.
What other group of fans could find a way to be eternal optimists. I am okay with the ML signing and The Gruden hire is more exciting to me because of the removal of Brat. I am concerned about his lack of NFL experience but I do like his enthusiasm and pedigree. He should be an upgrade but then with the bar set so low – how hard is that? These changes seem refreshing. Like I said I love Bengals fans – I really do. They are so willing to embrace anything that might work. They truly want to believe. MB does not deserve us any more than he deserves to be the owner of an NFL team.
Our loyal optimism is what MB loves too. There is a pattern here. Lets face it. This year was embarrassing. 4-12 is bad and I don’t care what kind of optimistic spin Katie wants to put on the last three games. So now we are going into a relatively easy schedule. We have a pretty good D and some young talent on O. I can see us having a winning record next year with a weak schedule. I can see 9-7 or hell, maybe 10-6. We have a decent team overall, especially if we can sign Benson and JJ and find a way to appease Carson. So we will go into the season stoked again. We will have the kind of winning year that a decent team can have with a weaker schedule – and being the optimists that we are it is easy for MB to make us believe – after we want to so badly.
This is not a change. There is no reason to believe that this is a turning point. This is not new. This is the same old MB throwing the fan base a bone or two while the primary reason for our past failure and inconsistancy is still there. Winning programs all have certain things in common. Good scouting for both FAs and draft picks, appropriate training facilities and players who feel like family. They have coaches who don’t do things like waste two – count em – two stupid, panicked challenges in the first quarter of a playoff game. The don’t misplace the challenge flag. They do not firld a team that has a plethora of unforced presnap penalties such as being lined up incorrectly, missing the snap count, obvious missed routes and poor blocking, ball security and weak tackling.
Yes, this has the look of helping us become a decent team – but – decent teams do not win playoff games, AFC championships or Superbowls. If the last 8 years or so of the Marvin era are good enough for you cool. I am happy for you if you are happy. As for me it will take more than the rehire of a coach who barely has a .500 record and a OC with a name pedigree and practically no NFL experience to give me a warm fuzzy feeling. I kinda see this as MB throwing us a bone with little meat on it and us wagging our tails like good dogs happy to get the meager rewards we get. Maybe – just maybe – we deserve better. Or – maybe not – like my dad always told me – you deserve whatever you are willing to put up with.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
As for me it will take more than the rehire of a coach who barely has a .500 record
You know Coach Wyche had a .484 win percentage, right?
Seems a little early to judge Coach Gruden before he’s even coached a down.
Hopefully my picture doesn't show my bias.
Come on Jungle John...
I get what you’re saying. Keep putting pressure on Mike Brown. Don’t Buy Bengals Products or Season TIckets. Write a hate letter or two to the Browns. But at some point, you gotta either get in or get out. Let’s not complain about the few positive things that are happening in this organization. We can’t change our owner, our coach, or our players. Ultimately, as fans, we either choose to root for our team, or not. If you want to root for a good organization, you’ll have to wait for Mike Brown to die. If you want to root for the Bengals, you’ll have to let a little optimism in the door every once in a while…
Man what is it with you and dog metaphors
This is like your second or third one. We aren’t mangy mutts, we are proud fans of the Cincinatti Bengals! Sure Mike is a twit, and the team could have better chemestry, but that doesn’t mean that we are falling apart at the seams. We are a decent team already, what happens when decent teams have (a) ball hogging player(s) out there, and face the most difficult schedule, they stumble. We have this year to pick ourselves back up, and with what I’ve seen so far, we are on the way toward doing that.
Flying is as simple as throwing yourself at the ground and missing
+1
And a young developing team at that. Jungle John mentions the mental mistakes… well, that’s what happens when you have a young team that hasn’t been together forever. But these guys have the talent to turn the corner… and thats something I can root for.
Your right Dealio
that’s what happens when you have a young team
Consider most of the guys your rooting for:
Rey – 2nd yr, Rivers-3rd, MJ93- 2nd, Geno-1st, Dunlap-1st, Sims- 3rd, McDonald- 2nd, Muck – 1st, V. Rey- 1st, Skuta- 2nd
Collins-3rd, Pressley- 2nd, Scott- 2nd, Caldwell- 3rd, Simpson- 3rd, Shipley- 1st, Gresham- 1st, Coffman- 2nd, A. Smith- 2nd, R. Stephens-1st, Q. Cosby- 2nd, Huber-2nd
A lot of those guys I listed are key contributors either on O and D or big on special teams. And those guys were only in there 3rd season playing pro ball or less. I call that a young team who has a bright future in my book.
Hopefully my picture doesn't show my bias.
Guys, I am a rabid Bengals fan. I bleed orange and black from one arm.......
and tOSH ( where I graduated) crimson and gray from the other. Like I said, if you are happy having a team good enough to win with a weak schedule hey I am all for you being happy. Being happy is one of the great fruits of life. I am hopeful that Gruden will flourish as a “Zimmer” for the O. The guy is a winner but he has no experience as an OC Wyche won playoff games and at least gave us a SB experience. Between ML and Wyche there is no comparison. I would take Wyche in his prime over ML in a NY minute.
I have rooted for this team and watched almost every game since returning from Vietnam in the 1970 season. I know this team and its history well. I was a season ticket holder for over 20 years. Question my opinions if you will but my loyalty to this team cannot be reasonably questioned. I understand rebuilding and I am also excited to see the young talent we have my concerns is that they very well could find their potential greatness stunted and wasted as so many others have in the MB era. We have had more than our share of young high draft picks over the last 10 years but relatively few of them risen to the top of their profession. I realize that effecting change in the Bengals organization is difficult for us as fans but just because it is hard and the odds are long does not mean we shouldn’t try. I will try because I care. If I didn’t I wouldn’t bother and I would turn my attention to things that I do care about.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
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