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Around SBN: On Hazards And Hulks And Tigers, Oh My!

Breaking down the broken Steelers

As I feel I can probably speak for most of you, I was thrilled to see the Steelers lose the Superbowl, but still deflated they had yet another dominating year, resulting in now twice as many Superbowl appearances as the Bengals have had playoff games during the Mike Brown era.  How is it we achieve moderate success in 2005 and 2010, but fall back to the gutters so quickly - while Pittsburgh continues to win every year?  What makes this worse is knowing the overwhelming adversity Pittsburgh went through this year, which further proves why they are an elite franchise, whereas we are not.  I copied and pasted the following facts from a recent post published by "Maryrose" on the Steelers blog (http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2011/2/7/1979581/despite-loss-in-super-bowl-xlv-steelers-gave-their-nation-a-wonderful),

  • Their franchise quarterback uses poor social judgment and was banished for the first quarter of the season.
  • One of the best clutch wide receivers in the league puts one more straw on the camel's back and is banished for a fifth-round pick just prior to the Draft.
  • The team loses both starting offensive tackles (Starks and Colon) from an already mediocre line, causing them to ask a 35-year-old left tackle (Adams) to move to the right side for the first time in his life, and asking a serviceable back-up (Scott) to occupy the most important position on the offensive line at left tackle.
  • Training camp was an awkward balancing act between giving reps to Big Ben and giving them to some other signal caller.
  • The second-string quarterback was hurt in the exhibition season, necessitating the promotion of the #3 quarterback.
  • The #3 quarterback goes down, leaving #4 to play against two teams who ended up winning 23 games this season.
  • The team loses both kicking specialists. The punter went down to injured reserve while the enigmatic kicker also decided to place another straw on the camel's back and was dispatched in midseason.
  • One of the team's three best defenders (Harrison) becomes the NFL's poster boy for how the game can no longer be played like it has been for 90 years, causing confusion, uncertainty and a delicate psychological predicament for the head coach and the clubhouse.
  • Another of the three top defenders (Aaron Smith) goes down with a triceps injury in October, never to be seen on the field again.
  • The final defender in that trilogy (Polamalu) nurses a heel injury and clearly was just a percentage of what he should have been, when the team needed him most.
  • Casey Hampton, the lynchpin of their defensive line is 33 years old, missed a couple games in the beginning of the year (which they won anyways) and struggles with a nagging hamstring injury.
  • Their prowbowl center goes down early in the AFC Champsionship game
    *italics mine  

Star-divide

The knee jerk reaction to any losing season is to lay blame on injuries and setbacks.  What we often don't realize however is most teams suffer injuries and losses tantamount to us.  And while we lick our wounds about the loss of players like Andre Smith, Odom, Pacman, & Nugent, Pittsburgh suffered more setbacks than we did, yet still made it all the way to the Superbowl.  This year, when focusing on just the lines, they lost both starting offensive tackles, defensive end, and their center - all top notch players.  So, how did they still win games, to include two early ones without their helms (QB and NT) on either side?

To be honest, I don't know any definite answers and it's killing me as I sit hear pondering it.  Obviously, they have passionate ownership who spend more money in a lot of different areas (not just players, but scouting, medical staff, indoor practice facility, you-name-it).  But is that it?  I think their comparitive success far exceeds the extra money they spend over us.  So, I think it goes beyond the money factor.

Below are a few suppositions I have and hopefully, we'll begin seeing improvement in these areas during the new Marvin/Gruden era.

 

1) The System.  I often consider the parting of Dick Lebeau to be the biggest loss of this decade.  The defensive system he has with Pittsburgh has proven to be the paradigm of the NFL, as they have remained eilte every year, depite constant reloading of talent.  One thing that is impressive with his system is that none of his current starting players came in as immidiate starters their first year.  In fact, many of them took a few years to develop and grasp the defense before being thrust into their current starting spots.  Even Polamalu didn't start his rookie year, nor did Ziggy Hood (their 2009 first round pick) get any starts despite Aaron Smith going down early in the season.  This, I feel is a testament to the complexity of the design and how intricate it is.  It's obvious that their defense is a a collective body of work, where each individual is gradually incorporated over the coarse of years to mitigate the chaos of a bunch of new players constantly missing their assignments.  Compare that to the Bengals who shove rookies and FA's immidiately into starting roles every year.

2) Dominating defensive players in the box.  Where it's at.  You can't overestimate the value of having guys like Harrison and Woodley on the outsides who are strong enough to play the run, explosive enough to rush the QB, quick enough to fall back into coverage, and disciplined/smart enough to determine where to be on each play.  A monster in the middle, Hampton, who can collapse the offensive line and disrupt any running plays between the tackles.  A pair of DE's who are able to hold their ground while determining where the play is going and unselfishly choosing between rush, containment, and plugging the correct holes.  A pair of middle linebackers who are smart enough to anticipate where the play is going, cover the right players, and hit the right holes.  Much of this has to do with development they recieve over the years (refer to point one), though I think a lot of it comes down to talent - neither of which we have in similar value.  Peko and Sims are adequate, but not a dominating force like Hampton.  Rey is athletic enough, but is often out of position.  Rivers, BJ, and MJ get blocked too easily.  The only impact players I'd say we arguably have are Dunlap and in a limited way on 3rd downs, Atkins.  Yes, we have far superior corners, but if we can't stop the run or reduce the pocket time, our CBs are negated.

3) Emphasis on backups.  What grabs most of the attention on a team is it's starters.  However, what's important to realize is reserves play a prominent role and are often called upon to fill in voids left by injured starters.  Since it's hard to compare backups (because we don't watch them play a lot), I will point to two examples.  The first is the constant reloading of talent every year by the Steelers without overly dipping into free agency and starting rookies (Pouncey and Miller are two of the enigmas).  The second example is their offensive line this year.  We've heard all season about how they were depleted and horrible, yet watching them in the Superbowl without their two starting tackles and center, they still dominated in the trenches against an elite GB defensive line with a dominating NT and sack-machine OLB, opening up holes for Mendenhall and giving Ben time to throw.  They accomplished this by picking up two former starting tackles (Adams and Scott) and retaining a valued center (Legursky) during the offseason to provide insurance for Starks, Colon, and Pouncey.  Could you imagine the Bengals trying to play without Whitworth, Cook, and Smith?  Just without Smith, our line struggled severely this year.  Yes, part of this is due to scouting which can identify better talent in latter rounds, but a lot of it comes down to committment to backing up the current starters and providing a foundation for the future.

4) The mentality.  While attempting to avoid the use of cliches and platitudes about teamwork and unselfishness, the Steelers seem to have a much more disciplined mentality than other teams.  Hines Ward for example is a receiver who prides himself on blocking - and bestows that upon his fellow receivers as well.  You don't hear much from their skilled position players.  Their defensive player of the year remains quiet and carries on in an always humble manner.  Mendenhal will dominate a game and then recieve limited carries the next without complaint.  Their constant rotation of recievers will consistently get an evenly distributed number of receptions.  And of course their QB can be the mockery of the NFL, get suspended for four games, break his foot along with numerous other injuries, and still carry on in an undisrupted manner.  I'm not saying the Bengals have any selfish players or anything....  But you can sense there is just a stronger mentality on that team that inspires a higher effort level and unselfish play.

 

 

Bottom line:  I think we still have the potential to reach this level within a few years.  It started with rehiring Marvin Lewis to maintain unit cohesion and discipline (which is what I think Marvin provides), is in the works with Zimmer going into his third year, and can be reached with a more dedicated effort to replenishing our reserve players with legitimate talent, upgrading our front seven, and avoiding personalities like Chad and TO.  Otherwise, we'll continue having up and down years as we struggle to fill gaps with last-minute additions.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors.

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Actually if you look at the

Packers, I think they had even more players plugged in to fill starting roles. They even replaced 3 starters during the game. But of course that team was in the making for about 3-4 years now too. They switched to the 3-4 defense 3 years ago.

by WHYUS!! on Feb 8, 2011 10:52 PM EST reply actions  

IIRC they switched to the 3-4 last season.

But you are right – they had even more injuries than we did, although you can argue about whether they were quite as key. But the interesting thing is to note how much of the “Pittsburgh system” is in place in Green Bay (although they might not appreciate me calling it that.) Capers and LeBeau famously worked together and developed the defensive system that we both use. Their GM is very similar to ours in philosophy, (build through the draft, and draft for the future rather than the present, spend what you need to on scouts so that you know who to draft.)

I personally think that the key for Bengals fans is to realize that your problems can’t all be fixed in one season, and that they will never be fixed if the locker room culture (divas, anyone) and parsimonious tendencies of your owner don’t change. Bringing in one high-profile person isn’t going to do it. Throwing money at a problem doesn’t necessarily fix it – for a case study, look at the Redskins – but if you refuse to build your infrastructure, the whole thing will eventually collapse around your ears. (And in case you’re wondering, Blue Steel asked some of us to come over and weigh in – I wouldn’t presume to make suggestions otherwise.)

And for the record, we’re happy to have a competitive Bengals team in Cincinnati, but we don’t plan to let you beat us out for the AFC Championship : )

"If you're not getting better, I don't care what business you're in, you're a dead man. I try to look critically at the mistakes that I make and try to learn from them, like our team does." - Mike Tomlin

by Rebecca Rollett on Feb 9, 2011 6:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Your right

I just calculated 2008 and this year 2011 and got 3 years. (considering this years over and not thinking). 2008 is when they were talking about switching the defense to a 3-4 for the 2009 season. They switched in 2009. So for 2 years then.. And I don’t care if you guys come over here and talk civil, just be civil about everything and there won’t be any problems. Usually that’s hard to do for a lot of Steeler fans to do. But no problems here b/c we’re just dying to knock you off your throne again. Once in a while someone has to keep you guys in check and I prefer it to be us and not the Brownies or Ratbirds.

by WHYUS!! on Feb 9, 2011 7:27 PM EST up reply actions  

haha, well first and foremost, yes it is the players

when I mention the system though, that’s really on he defensive side. In terms of offense (during this past decade at least), I’d contend our offense has been superior.

Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.

by Blue Steel on Feb 9, 2011 6:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Y'know, as good as the Squeelers are, their clock is going well down to zero.

That defense is getting olddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd and as good as it is and as good as they are at replacing talent, they will be forced to replace damn near most of it in a couple of years. They’re good, but even they are gonna have to take a couple of years and talents like Polamalu, Harrison, and Hampton don’t come along every year. Without Polamalu alone, that defense struggles something fierce, as 2009 pointed out pretty tremendously.

by Doc Scratch on Feb 8, 2011 11:55 PM EST reply actions  

I've been saying that for 20 years now

lol

Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.

by Blue Steel on Feb 9, 2011 6:19 AM EST up reply actions  

to be honest, I think Polamalu is a bit overrated

I think the key to their defense is the box. If anything, (as I briefly alluded to at one point in this post) I’d pin their defensive issues in 2009 more on Aaron Smith getting injured early in the year and Ziggy Hood not being prepared yet to fill in.

Though, I’ll admit I’m not an expert on the Steelers. And this would probably be an interesting topic of debate with some Steelers fans.

Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.

by Blue Steel on Feb 9, 2011 6:45 AM EST up reply actions  

first off

they did not lose more players than we did, especially not on D. it wasn’t even close.
Second, O-Line: they have a QB that is probably top 2 in evading pressure and being brought down…it would be VERY interesting to see the % of passing yardage that came off broken plays or scrambles by Ben- i’m guessing it would be in the 50-60% range.
-O-Line continued: all their backups can run block….they aren’t coached/treated like backups and the same amount of effort/commitment is expected from them, b/c unlike us the Steelers organization holds player Accountable (unless your a 2 time raper….er SB winning QB).
Third: Defense
they have an unreal defense and can consistently get pressure with the front 7, which causes most of their turnovers. (Blue, I agree completely about their success on D being based off the box/front 7)

The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day

by TruWhoDey on Feb 9, 2011 10:03 AM EST up reply actions  

they may not have lost as many players

but I think they lost more value. Winning the AFC championship game and going into a competitive Superbowl game, they had lost the three most important offensive line positions, their elite defensive end, and their QB and defensive player of the year, SS, were playing injured.

And of course, they went 3-1 without their QB.

Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.

by Blue Steel on Feb 9, 2011 10:30 AM EST up reply actions  

It's entirely because of that defense.

It’s like Baltimore but with the hope of continued success after key plays retire/leave.

by Doc Scratch on Feb 9, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Not sure why all that got scratched out

it should not have been.

I agree w/you Blue, but the end result wasn’t affected like it woudl be w/us b/c of the type of QB they have and his ability to avoid pressure, shed it, and ad-lib after the play breaks down. They still weren’t very good at pass blocking but b/c they had servicable backups they could still run the ball oldschool style….

Yeah they lost the D-End, but i dont know about calling him elite….PLUS he was out almost all year, so his ‘servicable’ backup had plenty of time to get his feet under him (ala Dunlap’s situation)

The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day

by TruWhoDey on Feb 9, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

We were very fortunate

that Ziggy stepped up in place of A. Smith at DE. Smith was directly related to stopping the run, and in 2008 and 2009 it was noticed when he was out. This year, not missed, as our run D was top notch.

The OL,

O-Line continued: all their backups can run block….they aren’t coached/treated like backups and the same amount of effort/commitment is expected from them, b/c unlike us the Steelers organization holds player Accountable

I’ll leave it at that, but you are spot on, in my eyes. Listen to Tomlin sometime when he is talking about managing players. Men are treated like Men, with all respect and responsibilities of Men

But you keep pulling out your "refs-threw-the-game" card if that’s what you need for catharsis. You can use that card after every loss. It is a lifetime pass. Get it laminated. -Maryrose

by Twell on Feb 9, 2011 6:55 PM EST up reply actions  

And we have a circus owner

that treats his employees, well, as if they are in a circus.

by WHYUS!! on Feb 9, 2011 7:06 PM EST up reply actions  

really

you guys have a shite situation with ownership, as far as can be seen. Not sure how you better that, realistically. And Gruden might be not much different than your last OC. But at least you have the same HC in Marvin Lewis instead of a revolving door ala the Browns and Raiders. You need a stable platform, and thats a start, but the ownership has to be on the same page and reinforce the message.

But you keep pulling out your "refs-threw-the-game" card if that’s what you need for catharsis. You can use that card after every loss. It is a lifetime pass. Get it laminated. -Maryrose

by Twell on Feb 9, 2011 7:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Just look throughout the 20 years

of Mike Brown owning and running things. We have had so many coaches change hands and not to mention all the disgruntle players that have left. That is a tell tale sign of incompetence by the owner. Can you tell me what other organization has gone through as many players wanting out than the Bengals? In 20 Years. That’s starting with Boomer Esiason wanting out too.. It’s actually a high amount.
Mike Brown is never on the same page, he writes his own pages and it’s usually way off the message that the coaches are sending. He’ll let them know he knows best, it’s his team.

by WHYUS!! on Feb 9, 2011 7:41 PM EST up reply actions  

That would imply that some capable of debate actually exist.

But seriously, I am intrigued. I’d like a general community post amongst AFCN fans to basically question the other teams. We know each other pretty well but not as well as we know our own team and things like this would be intriguing and fun to talk about. Problem is, would they actually comply? I feel like MaLoR and Baltimore Warrior might not be too terrible but good luck getting sensible Squeeler and Brownies fans.

by Doc Scratch on Feb 9, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I like to consider myself reasonably sensible...

And I always enjoy a good conversation with a Bengals fan.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 9, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Biggie Smalls and a mirror :)

I actually read this site almost every day, at the least every other day.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 9, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

bring it

Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.

by Blue Steel on Feb 9, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Just responding to this:
And this would probably be an interesting topic of debate with some Steelers fans.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 9, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

haha, I know

I remember you, you’re cool

Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.

by Blue Steel on Feb 9, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I disagree on Polamalu

While it is true the foundation of the Steelers is the LB and DL personnel, it is also true that what take Pittsburgh’s D from top-10 to #1-2 is Troy. He has an uncanny ability to make big plays when they are needed most, and might be the best line of scrimmage safety ever. He allows an otherwise average secondary to compete at a top level every week.

But to your points about being able to plug in players, I think the biggest problem the Bengals have is that they miss on First Round draft picks. The Steelers haven’t “missed” on one in a decade, which allows for top replacement among important players.

The Poster Formerly Known As Gimpsta7

by Michael Uhlhorn on Feb 9, 2011 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't call him the best line of scrimmage safety ever.

I’d even take Adrian Wilson from AZ over him now in that one area.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 9, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

What I mean by that is

He has the ability to disrupt runs, stop for loss or no gain, drop into coverage like a middle linebacker, cover like a corner, and hit like a FS. Plus he can shed a block like a NT. He is much better than Wilson.

The Poster Formerly Known As Gimpsta7

by Michael Uhlhorn on Feb 9, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Troy is a better all around safety...

In the box, at the line of scrimmage, no one touches Wilson right now in my opinion. He’s bigger and stronger than Troy, and as sound a tackler as Troy is.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 9, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeh, I disagreed with Blue Steel almost immediately because of the difference in the 2009 defense as compared to this year's.

When he’s there (even if he’s not fully healthy) all year, you guys go far. When he’s not, you guys still have a damn good defense and your coordinator and front office are probably huge portions of that, but they lack the kind of playmaker in that backfield that really puts opponents on edge for anything they do on offense. Without Troy, teams are much more inclined to pass, Harrison, Woodley, and Hampton be damned.

by Doc Scratch on Feb 9, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't get me wrong, I think he is a great player

but I consider him more the recipient of rushed passes due to the zone blitz the front seven provide and free shots on RB’s and QB’s because the offensive line has their hands full blocking his teamates. Put Polamalu on the Bengals defense and he would be considered a “good” safety.

Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.

by Blue Steel on Feb 9, 2011 7:04 PM EST up reply actions  

That is the thing though

He isn’t like Ed Reed where he sits back and picks passes that are lobbed up when Suggs is in the QB’s face, Polamalu makes most of his plays coming from the other side of the field and just reading a QB. Before the Steelers had this current team, Polamalu was still considered the best SS in football, and our defense wasn’t nearly as good as they are now. Nor did we have your guys’ corners.

The Poster Formerly Known As Gimpsta7

by Michael Uhlhorn on Feb 10, 2011 9:31 AM EST up reply actions  

That very much so undersells Ed Reed.

He makes great plays on passes he has no business intercepting.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 10, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Wasnt trying to imply he doesnt

Just most of his INTs are off balls thrown deep. Remember Clark’s INT off of Flacco. A lot are like that. Still good plays, but not the one hander Troy made against TN last year.

The Poster Formerly Known As Gimpsta7

by Michael Uhlhorn on Feb 10, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

that's because Ed Reed is a Free Safety

whereas Troy is a strong safety. And to be honest, I’d put Ed Reed in the same class. They’re both great players, but I think they benefit highly from an aggressive and dominant front 7 that pressure the QB into throwing a lot of rushed/bad passes.

Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.

by Blue Steel on Feb 10, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

They are same class

But Reed gets a stat boost from being a centerfielder. Troy roams the field. I was just trying to point out what he does is harder because the position he plays is harder.

All I know is Dick Lebeau said Troy was the best defender he had ever been around or coached. High praise for best D Coordinator ever and a 50 year NFL vet.

The Poster Formerly Known As Gimpsta7

by Michael Uhlhorn on Feb 10, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd even agree he might be the "best" defender

but for my money, your guys in the box are more valuable. I’d rather have a Harrison or Woodley, for example, than Troy. Troy doesn’t form an unblockable force on the outside of that line that can guard against the run, rush the passer, and drop back into coverage like they can.

Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.

by Blue Steel on Feb 10, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

But I argue

That Woodley and Harrison would be a lot easier to replace than Troy. The Steeler system allows for good LBs to become great, but having that star safety changes things. Trust me, I have watched the Steelers with All-Pro LB’s for years, but they were a different team with Rod Woodson locking down the secondary, and they are a different team with Troy. Troy is the most irreplaceable defender, even though I agree that the LB position is much more important to the overall system.

The Poster Formerly Known As Gimpsta7

by Michael Uhlhorn on Feb 10, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions  

honestly, I don't think any of our LB's comes close

to Harrison or Woodley. I think Roy WIlliams (as dissapoitning as he’s been) is closer to Troy than rey maualuga or Keith Rivers are to their counterparts.

But, maybe i just haven’t seen enough of Troy when he was healthy.

Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.

by Blue Steel on Feb 10, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

The System

I still think it has a lot to do with the Steelers system that helps the LB’s. Rivers would be a beast in our system (the Steelers passed on Maualuga for a reason, doesn’t fit our system). But I think that the only LB that would be really hard to replace would be Timmons. The others are replaceable in our system.

If the Bengals institute that system and move Dunlap to OLB (in a 3-4) then I think they could start to make a serious transition to a good defense. There is no reason to run a 4-3 in the AFC North anymore.

The Poster Formerly Known As Gimpsta7

by Michael Uhlhorn on Feb 10, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions  

well that's an entire different discussion right there

I could maybe see Rivers playing your Farrior role where he drops back in coverage. Anywhere else, he’d be worthless to you guys. Rey just doesn’t have it mentally.

As far as the 3-4, I’m conflicted. I think it’s a better system, though would take time to develop and we’d have to change out a lot of our current players.

I think Dunlap is big enough to play your Kiesel role. Rey might be able to play Timmons spot and Rivers Farrior’s spot. However, I don’t feel we have anyone who can play NT or the outside LB spots. Brandon Johnson, Michael Johnson are just too tall and lanky to play well against the run. Possibly Muckelroy, but I haven’t seen enough of him yet.

I’d almost rather see us stick with the 4-3, because soon it will probably be a minority defense which means we’ll be less familiar to QB’s – in addition to getting better selection for our DE’s and OLB’s in the future.

Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.

by Blue Steel on Feb 10, 2011 6:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I understant those arguments

But the window closed on this current team with Palmer and Chad Johnson. If you guys blew it up now, ya you would suck for 3 years, but then you could revamp the whole team and improve all around with 3 more years of top 5 draft picks. Pick up an NT in this draft for example. Start the transition while you are bad, then reap the benefits in 4-5 years.

The Poster Formerly Known As Gimpsta7

by Michael Uhlhorn on Feb 11, 2011 9:18 AM EST up reply actions  

i agree

and have elaborated more on that with my latest post, “Build for 2012 (and beyond)”. I’d be interested in hearig your thoughts over there.

Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.

by Blue Steel on Feb 11, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

I could see

Rivers at the mack (Timmons’ spot), Maualuga at the buck maybe.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 10, 2011 7:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Good post

I may very well be the only Bengal fan living in Pittsburgh. As much as I hate the Steelers, I can’t help but have respect for their organization and see them as a model that the Bengals should emulate.

You do a great job of summarizing why the Steelers win—they have a great system, a system which is designed to win. It’s not just a game plan, but a team plan that works. They always of a “guys in the shoot” who are ready to step in when someone goes down and I think equally importantly, players want to play for the Steelers. They have a culture of winning and players will happily forego short term personal gain for the shot at a ring.

by goffchile on Feb 9, 2011 9:54 AM EST reply actions  

The players are

what the organization is. The organization puts aside the greed and personal endowment of success to obtain overall greatness, which indeed gives personal success to each and everyone involved in the long run. Including the fans…
That’s why the little things such as Gatorade coolers and Christmas parties aren’t important expenses to organizations, but is ours.
But I think all players would give up a little for a shot at a ring, just not with an organization with a rep of losing and treating the players like shit, all the while thinking they aren’t.

by WHYUS!! on Feb 9, 2011 10:20 AM EST up reply actions  

The organization puts aside the greed and personal endowment of success to obtain overall greatness,

Well said. A perfect illustration of that is Dan Rooney telling the media that he doesn’t want an 18 game season, that he’d rather not have the extra money. That has to mean a lot to the players. Another illustration is the following story about Santonio Holmes and Hines Ward. Relatively early in his rookie season, Holmes was complaining to Ward that Ben didn’t throw him the ball often enough, that he needed to get his stats up. Ward looked at him and said “In Pittsburgh, we don’t play for stats, we play for rings.” Although Holmes did eventually learn to block, he never lost the entitled attitude, and many of us, myself included, were happy to see the back of him.

"If you're not getting better, I don't care what business you're in, you're a dead man. I try to look critically at the mistakes that I make and try to learn from them, like our team does." - Mike Tomlin

by Rebecca Rollett on Feb 9, 2011 6:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Nah, I live here in Pittsburgh also.

Pittsburgh will always be competitive because they don’t have a putz running the organization. They need to concentrate on their lines both D and O. While the Bengals draft sexy picks like skill players the Steelers generally draft to their strength, the D.

by Seapit on Feb 9, 2011 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

With Pittsburgh

It starts at the top with the Rooneys, who hire actual football people to make football decisions, a top-flight GM and scouting department, who keep that defensive juggernaut humming with replacement parts in the waiting, and a Hall of Fame defensive coordinator who’s still the best the game’s ever known.

by IgnatiusJReilly on Feb 9, 2011 10:05 AM EST reply actions  

agreed

Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.

by Blue Steel on Feb 9, 2011 10:26 AM EST up reply actions  

In a nutshell

this

But you keep pulling out your "refs-threw-the-game" card if that’s what you need for catharsis. You can use that card after every loss. It is a lifetime pass. Get it laminated. -Maryrose

by Twell on Feb 9, 2011 6:44 PM EST up reply actions  

This is a good read, and pretty accurate Blue...

Your points stand well on their own, but if there is anything anyone would like to know more about, I’m more than happy to answer questions as frequently as I can (I’m at work right now).

I’ll say I agree with pretty much everything you said, and my only complaint (and it is a somewhat minor one) is that the part of your article attributed to our Maryrose should be in a quote box, but as I said you did a good job pointing out where it came from and where you added to it, so my complaint is fairly quiet.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 9, 2011 12:44 PM EST reply actions  

I would have, except I wanted to interpolate a few things

to make it more understandable to my fellow Bengal fans and add a few aspects he left out

Moisture is the essense of wetness, and wetness is the essense of beauty.

by Blue Steel on Feb 10, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Like I said, just a small gripe.

You explained it clearly in the article though.

I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

by NYSteelersFan4 on Feb 10, 2011 7:05 PM EST up reply actions  

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