The Rise and Fall of Carson Palmer
by Throw the ball on Mar 29, 2011 2:43 PM EDT
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Anyone who has been around this blog for the last year or so knows that I'm a HUGE Carson Palmer fan. This is going to be the last time I bring up Palmer as I feel like its just beating a dead horse, and I'd like to lay my Palmer fandom to rest like most of the fanbase already has. So if you want lets go down memory lane and see if we can make sense of what happened.
Though I'm a huge NFL fan I'm not much of a college football fan. I usually only get interested in College ball when the draft starts to roll around, because I find it enjoyable to try and figure out where players will be drafted. I remember starting to hear about this quarterback from USC who was supposed to be the real deal. Wanting to know more I dug deeper and saw a tale of two players.
Carson Palmer was considered one of the top high school players when he left for USC, and he proved it as the first freshman to start for the Trojans. Palmer was the prototype build for a quarterback. 6'5", 230lbs, and a cannon arm. Despite all his physical abilities though, Palmer was considered an underachiever.
Between the 2000 and 2001 season Palmer posted 5,631 yards with 29 TD's to 30 INT's. In 2002 USC brought in Norm Chow as offensive coordinator to build a new offense around Palmer that played to his strengths. Something changed with Palmer that season and he could tell something was going to be different from the day Chow walked in the door.
"I really didn't know much about coach Chow until the first day he got here. When I saw his bio, I was like, 'Wow!' I had no idea. I thought, 'I can't wait to work with this guy.'"...He has no ego. And he's old-school. When I say he's old-school, I mean he dresses old-school, too! His shorts are up over his belly button and his shirt is tucked into his shorts." Coach Chow's offense: "We are running a lot of routes that are completely different now. I had never thrown a comeback or a hook-and-go off a five-step drop before. Coach Chow wants to throw it all game. And I love that...The key to it is taking what the defense gives you. That's what coach Chow tells me. I had been greedy, trying to throw the long ball when there's a guy 5 or 6 yards in front of me who's open. He told me I just have to be more patient."
Carson Palmer exploded in 2002 and finally became the player he was expected to be coming out of high school. 3,942 yards, 33TD's, and 10 interceptions. Palmer went from a "bust" to Heisman Trophy winner in a year and banked on that season with a #1 overall selection to our Cincinnati Bengals in the draft.
Palmer sat for a year behind John Kitna who played very and earned comeback player of the year in 2003. The bengals posted an 8-8 record under new coach Marvin Lewis and for the first time since I was a little kid watching the 89' superbowl there was some real hope in the town.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b__rNcUSxgg
I can remember this night like it was yesterday. Paul Brown was packed to see the "Golden boy with the golden arm" from California who was going to save our franchise. Palmer had been on fire in his "rookie" debut posting a 105.2 QB rating in his first game as an NFL starter. It was a sign of things to come, but we would have to wait until later in the season to find out just what we had at quarterback.
3 players share the record for most consecutive games with a quarterback rating above 100 at 9, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Carson Palmer.
2005 seems like a dream now doesn't it guys? We had who many considered the second best quarterback in the NFL. We had the best wide receiver in the nfl. We had the best possession receiver in the NFL. Palmer continued his hot streak from the end of 2004 and posted one of the best seasons of the decade. Palmer finished behind Peyton Manning for the MVP vote that season, but I don't think there was a player more important to their team that year.
In traditional Cincinnati fashion though, it was all put on the brink when "The Hit" happened.
The Bengals caved in that game and ended up getting blown out in the second half. Palmer's career was thought to be over and the dreams of a city came crashing down because of 1 man's knee.
Palmer though came back and started the first game of the 2006 season. Palmer continued to be considerded one of the best QB's in the league and posted a top 5 season. If it wasn't for the play of a certain individual the Bengals would have been back to the playoffs for a second year in a row.
2007 was the turning point down a darker road for Palmer and the Bengals. Cincinnati's vaunted offensive line was destroyed be free agency and injury. Palmer, now less mobile after the knee injury, suffered behind the line. So did the running game as Rudi Johnson, one of the leagues top backs, suffered as well. Palmer posted 4000 yards for the second consecutive year, but posted a career high in interceptions. Palmer's balls began to sail on him as he was forced to throw quickly and flat footed more often. Forcing balls led to a lot of turn overs and unfortunately a lot of losses.
I think a lot of the fan base was waiting for what happened in 2008. Palmer wasn't going to last as a pure drop back passer and eventually went down with a season ending elbow injury 4 games into the season.
Though Palmer hadn't posted a truly great season since 2006 he was still considered an elite quaterback but that changed in the 2009 season, and I personally don't feel that's a fair evaluation. Palmer played poorly for most of the season, but so did the entire team. Despite this Palmer willed a 6-10 team to a 10-6 record. The team looked beat up and tired by the end of the season though and Palmer, playing behind the stellar line of Nate Livings, Kyle Cook, and Lurch, didn't seem to have the same magic that he had earlier in the year. Even though the team made the playoffs we were again booted out in the wild card round. There were several key drops by our amazing top tier receivers and Cincinnati Bungled themselves out of the game.
2010 was supposed to be the season that Palmer was going to play to that 05/06 level again. We drafted the best tight end in the draft and lucked out in getting a steal in Jordan Shipley in the 3rd. Carson lobbied for the controversial yet talented Terrel Owens and the passing game looked like it would be a high flying show. Unfortunately we all know what happened. Somehow a team with Terrel Owens, Chad Ochocinco, Jermain Gresham, and Carson Palmer finished 4-12. There was a light at the end of the tunnel however when Palmer looked like a different quarterback throwing to 2 unheralded wideouts in Jerome Simpson, and Andre Caldwell when the TOCHO show went down with injuries. I was certain (Just like in every off-season) that Palmer was going to light it up with this kids in 2011....
Then came the moment that split this fan base like I've never seen. Out of nowhere the quiet leader of the franchise was demanding a trade and threatened retirement if he wasn't dealt. Mike Brown in all his genius has stated that no trade will occur and Palmer will retire a Bengal. How did this happen? We can all have our ideas or opinion, but I'm not sure we'll ever truly know why. Neither Brown nor Palmer strike me as the gossiping type, and Marvin Lewis' press conferences are an exercise in frustration.
Though I understand many people around gave up on the man a long time ago, I'm happy that I at least got see my favorite player play the best game of his careers in person at Paul Brown this year. I saw a QB who was nowhere near the end of his career and had this franchise handled things differently through the draft could be playing here for a lot longer.
No matter what happens I'll remember him as this quarterback http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-sound-efx/09000d5d81368c8c/Sound-FX-Palmer-vs-Flacco who, when he was in the game, I always felt like the Bengals had a chance.
I'll get behind whoever we draft this year, and I hope and pray they can turn this franchise around like Palmer did back in the 2004. Hopefully this franchise protects their investment better and we can go back to the playoffs and do what my favorite player never did, WIN.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors.
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I'll always love Carson and I'll support him wherever he goes. Or into retirement.
I really think Jay could have reinvented Carson the way that Chow did at USC. But if he wants out, he wants out. I’m not going to call him a coward for being fed up.
by Cry on Mar 29, 2011 3:18 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I also think that he could be reborn under our new OC.
Hopefully we’ll have a chance to find out, though there are really no indications that we will. Certainly all the hate flying around hasn’t done anything to make the rift between the organization and Palmer any easier to repair!
Perhaps getting AJ Green in a ham-handed attempt to coax him back will work. In any event, I’m glad we’re going to draft a QB this year. Our QB depth behind CP was really atrocious these last couple of years.
If I'm a tired QB looking for a change of pace..
A new exciting OC, a top 10 talent receiver, and a couple freshly drafted linemen would definitely make me reconsider leaving. Not that Carson will. But whoever we draft at QB will certainly appreciate the upgrades.
by Cry on Mar 29, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
All true.
I still hold out hope to see CP9 at the helm this year. Just because I can.
Carson made me eat crow
in 2005. I didn’t like him coming out of USC. I didn’t trust a guy that failed, then a new OC was brought in, he failed again, then another new OC was brought in just for him, then finally he looks good. That scared me off of him. He also had the casual California vibe that makes you wonder how much he really cares about the game. I didn’t want the Bengals to draft him because I didn’t trust him to be a franchise quarterback and because I thought Kitna had another 3-4 years in the tank.
That said, after he spent a year in training he absolutely lit it up. There was no question at all that the top 3 QBs in the league were Manning, Brady, and Palmer and that number 4 was a long way behind the big 3. Then when he got knocked out of the playoff game and most of the team gave up, some sort of strange karmic retribution kicked in and Palmer has sucked hairy goat balls ever since.
by indesignkat on Mar 29, 2011 5:04 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
harsh
I cut that short because I was on break at work and time was running out, and it was harsher than it should have been because I’m dealing with a neck injury-induced headache, but my point was that Carson had one brilliant year that completely changed my opinion of him. After that I spent a couple years making excuses for him and saying he’d be back, but it hasn’t happened and I got increasingly less interested in making excuses for him after the ‘08 and ’09 seasons. After ’09 I still had some hope in spite of myself, but after the ’10 season I’m completely done with him. The 49ers (or Tiger-Cats, for all I care) can have him.
"Palmer has sucked hairy goat balls ever since"
I think I found the perfect way to describe him post injury. I’m using that in casual work conversation.
I find that the only people who continually bash Palmer for wanting to leave are the people who wanted him gone in the first place.
So it’s like “why do you care, you didn’t even want him in the first place.” You’d think they be dancing in the streets that he agrees with them or something.
Like, jimbasa is the only one who actually did this. Everyone else is just spending their time complaining about him and saying how much of a quitter, bad leader, whatever insult they can think of he is and I’m just scratching my head wondering why they’re not happy that he’s forcing the administration to get rid of him. I mean, if all they wanted during the season was for him to go away, why aren’t they happy that that’s finally getting accomplished? Why take more potshots at him for doing exactly what you wanted him to do? Why the sudden vindication for a player you hated anyway? I’ve been confused by all of this.
I mean, c’mon, sexsalad said it best when he said this city turned its back on him long before he turned his on us.
I still think Palmer could’ve taken us to the playoffs next year. Something went wrong. Really wrong, enough to make me think this year couldn’t be the norm. Some teams overachieved this year (Baltimore, Atlanta, and I’m going to add the Patriots as I feel their record was slightly better than it should’ve been and I doubt they repeat), they’ll probably regress a bit. Meanwhile, teams did underachieve. I felt we belong in that category and the infusion of top-ten talent, no matter where it’s infused (yes, even if it means Patrick Peterson) should definitely bolster an already pretty talented team. I don’t know why Palmer’s leaving us. I don’t know what caused things to click. He just got fed up at something none of us know (and yet maddeningly try to guess at in order to justify their new hatred of him) and he’s leaving.
I want him here. I still think he’s a relatively good QB, better than some of the other options out there (certainly better than Ponder, Dalton, or Newton will be if they’re drafted by us), and I don’t understand the hatred for him. Even when he’s gone next year, I’ll still wear my Palmer jersey with pride. Unlike Dillon and the Doush, he’s never said an ill word to us fans.
by Doc Scratch on Mar 29, 2011 7:47 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I wish Palmer hadn't cut his ties with the Bengals
I’ve always been a Palmer fan (since watching him live at the 2003 Orange Bowl) but I feel he has quit on his teammates and me, one of his fans. I’m sorry but a quitter is a quitter and it dissappoints me to no end. With Palmer we had a shot to make the playoffs and more. Without Palmer we’re in 1991-2002 redux. Puck Falmer and MB.
"At the very end, somebody took a dump right where I stood in the dugout every day." Dusty Baker
I would kill for him to come back.
(Seriously, Carson… you need someone taken care of, just let me know, man. We can work something out. I may need to you hook me up with Ben-Gal Sunny as well. Let’s not get bogged down in details, though.)
I think he would have a rebirth under a new system designed to use our personnel. He’s a smart, strong QB. His leadership style would be more effective with a younger team, like we have. I’m still holding out hope that he’ll be back next year, but that’s just hope.
If he goes somewhere else, there’s a very good chance he’ll thrive. To me, he looked like a prisoner of the system here these last several years.
Nice article. Somehow, I’m not nearly as scared of the Bengals without Palmer. The scariest part for you guys is that your owner seems to be in denial. If he passes over Gabbert, who is clearly the best QB in this class in my opinion, I think it will be a gigantic mistake that could throw the franchise into a spiral.
I think you guys are on the verge of being a really good team. Retaining Lewis was a great move. I was pissed when I heard he was staying… for selfish reasons, of course. The problem is that losing is a cancer. It will divide a team and get coaches (even good ones) fired. If the Bengals can’t find a replacement, someone that at least shows potential and promise, I believe they could really fall apart at a time where they have the opportunity to be very good. There’s no doubt you guys have some talented players and coaches.
by BAL_Hawk on Mar 30, 2011 9:50 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Thanks for the respect.
It’s rare to get it from you guys and this is something that’s been rather dividing, not only of the team, but also of the fanbase.
by Doc Scratch on Mar 30, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Man that NFL sounds of the game brought back memories.
Maybe if we sent that to CP9 he’d realize how much fun he had during that game and he’d reconsider..
Carson at his best
was thrilling for any Bengal or football fan. But he’s not Joe Montana or Tom Brady and never will be. Mike Brown never seemed to do what Marvin Lewis said they were going to do, surround CP9 with talent. They let the Oline drift. They let their receivers get old or lose interest while relegating young talent to the deep bench. In fact Mike Brown in retrospect didn’t seem to be on the same page with Palmer at all. You think Brady and Kraft don’t collaborate on what he needs? You think Montana didn’t talk to DeBartolo about what the team needed? I think those guys were actively involved in setting the team’s direction. Right now Montana and Debartolo are business partners, that’s how close they are.
Not here in Cincy. Mike Brown does nothing to honor his past players let alone allow them to be involved in fielding the best team possible. This lack of trust between MB and his people on the field has set the stage for an epically horrible season, even by Cincy Bengals standards. Add to this the labor strife and short preseason and 2011 will be ugly in Cincinnati. My fear is that the Bengals draft a Cam Newton or Gabbert in 2011, then still get the first pick in 2012 when Andrew Luck as their prize. This could easily happen.
Yeh but I blame Brat for throwing away an entire offseason's worth of work on that one.
Palmer probably didn’t intend for that.
MB doesn't even take his coaches suggestions seriously
Bengals Players = MB’s Chattle
"At the very end, somebody took a dump right where I stood in the dugout every day." Dusty Baker
I never heard
That CP9 was instrumental in getting TO here. Given CP9’s frustrations with Ocho, I find it hard to believe he’d want another selfish prima donna around him.
It might have gone down like you said, but I never saw any stories asserting that. Once TO was here, he was supportive, but what else was he to do.
Not at all
As in the supposed retirement talk, all I ever saw were unattributed statements that CP9 wanted TO. None quoting CP9 directly. Obviously we now know that CP9 has a broken relationship with Marvin and Mike Brown. If M&M were doing what CP9 wanted in bringing in TO, then CP9 is showing his gratitude in a strange way. Also can’t help but remember the way CP9 played when TO & Chad were out of the lineup. Sure looked like he liked their replacements. So no, I’m not persuaded that CP9 landed TO rather than MB doing it it anyway since TO’s rival for the job, Bryant, was medically unfit as it turned out.
Proof
of your selective memory. Carson worked out with TO before the Bengals talked to him.
from the profootballtalk site:
"I’d love to," Palmer texted back when Geoff Hobson of Bengals.com asked if he’d like to pass to Owens this season. "His past doesn’t bother me at all. If any qb can deal with extravagant wrs, it’s me."
Palmer said he’d be happy to get involved in wooing Owens personally. He also said he had reached out to another free agent wide receiver, Antonio Bryant, and hopes the Bengals will make him an offer.
by indesignkat on Apr 12, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
the only thing you've proved
is I don’t read Geoff Hobson or Bengals.com. You’ve got me. I don’t read the in-house progaganda site. Still doesn’t prove CP9 got MB to bring in TO. In fact its kind of underwhelming endorsement of TO when he said “his past doesn’t bother me at all”. Not a rousing endorsement. According to your quote, they hadn’t offered a contract to TO or Bryant yet. Ultimately they offered it to Bryant so I guess the “I’d love to” wasn’t enough to get TO in. This reads like Bryant was the guy CP9 wanted.
I generally don't either..
as Hobson is the most pathetic excuse for a writer I’ve ever seen on a professional sports site, but that doesn’t change the fact that Carson worked out with TO and was publicly calling for him to become a bengal before it happened.
Carson
was probably the #1 advocate of bringing TO to Cincy….(other than Chad) but the diff was that Palmer was throwing to him in Cali in the offseason, and seemed to see through the Antonio Bryant shibacle juuuust b4 the doctors did.
Palmer DEFINATELY was a HUGE factor in bringing TO in….
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
This makes me soo sad....
Carson resparked my love for the Bengals and that spark has been fading with the past couple seasons. I wish Carson the best and support his decision to stick it to MB. I have zero faith in this franchise with MB at the helm. MB has zero pride and is the worst owner in professional sports history. I was mad when I heard Carson wanted to retire, but now I find it admirable when considering some of MB’s comments over the last couple months. If only Cincinnati had a “real” NFL owner….sigh.
honorable?
to say “screw the team, the fans, the other players, I’ve got bank so I can just retire”?
to play devil's advocate
Palmer never directly said any of that….pure speculation through 3rd party sources, at the exact same time his 3rd child was born…..god i sound like a broken record- i’m just gonna stop chiming in on the Carson thing and let it play out…
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
Never said anything to deny it either.
If people are running around saying I said things that I didn’t truly say I’d find that offending and want to at least correct it. He hasn’t done that. So it’s safe to assume he said those things.
by JamesShively on Mar 30, 2011 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
That does not follow. Not at all.
Saying that you would react a certain, specific way, and then assuming that Carson Palmer would necessarily react the same way so that conclusions about his specific yet unobserved actions can be conclusively inferred from his lack of certain other specific behavior… that is not a safe assumption.
You guys want some more kool-aid.
These reports are coming from credible sources in the media. Palmer has said nothing to the contrary of what these reports have said. Stop holding on to your belief that he MAYBE didn’t say these things. Face it, he’s not coming back, and I’m upset about that as much as anyone. It’s in my opinion, that until that until he comes out and denies what these reports have said, than it’s safe to assume they’re true. If they’re not word for word true he’s still doing NOTHING to prove that this isn’t truly how he feels.
by JamesShively on Mar 30, 2011 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll stop holding onto the belief that he didn't say them when you give up on the belief that he did.
If you want to play that game.
by Doc Scratch on Mar 30, 2011 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I believed it
when Marvin flat out said that Carson wasn’t coming back. Up until that point it was all media rumors, but once the coach says the guy is done I believe it.
by indesignkat on Mar 31, 2011 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I've already accepted that he's not coming back.
That’s not my point, I’m more interested in people looking for reasons to bash him by trying to guess why he’s not coming back.
Did he quit this team? Not before the fans quit on him.
by Doc Scratch on Mar 31, 2011 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I didn't say that we know he didn't say those things.
Palmer has always toed the company line. He’s publicly taken blame for things that aren’t his fault, he’s mouthed all the right words when the team is in a slump, said that he and Chad get along when they were visibly clashing.
He’s never been what you would call a candid person in public. That is to say, it doesn’t look like he’s ever used the opportunities that he’s had to make public statements to express his own thoughts; he’s always viewed his public statements as an extension of his responsibilities as the Bengals’ QB.
So what I’m saying is that it is not safe to assume that he said this or that specific thing in private because he hasn’t denied saying them in public. Carson has not been someone who uses the public sphere to express his own thoughts. I don’t know why you would expect a person who has always handled pressers with the mentality of what should I say for the team to suddenly get all Chad/TO and start using that space to get tick off his personal agenda items.
None of this has anything to do with whether or not Carson is coming back. Obviously there is unanimity in anyone who isn’t Mike Brown that Palmer is dead-set against playing in stripes next year. While I hope to see him back, I’ll candidly admit that’s a homer’s hope, not a rational analysis of the situation.
But your assertion was that we can know that he said insulting things about the city and the fan base because he hasn’t come out and publicly denied saying them. Once again, I’ll say that is not a good assumption… both in general, but especially when you are talking about Carson Palmer, who has, in general, not used the public conversation as a place to express his personal thoughts or to defend himself.
i’ve always found anonymous sources to be very credible.
by Throw the ball on Mar 31, 2011 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions
GET OVER IT
Carson has sucked the last five or six years and I’m glad that he will not be out QB moving forward. He will never be back at the level he once was at in my opinion.
Hey Throw,
Great read and brings back a lot of memories and makes you think what could have been.
I like to add that whether Carson comes back or not, it was a pleasure to watch such a dynamic player for a couple of years and he has shown all of us what he can do if he only had a competent owner. Best wishes to the future, if he’s back or not..
the bengals organization has a lot of problems. terrible cheap as hell owner.
if the organization was on par with the colts i think you would have gotten similar results, carson realizes this now, though its probably too late
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