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Bengals Round Table: An Experiment Of Awesome Bengals Discussions

The following is an experiment on our parts, a trial run of sorts. We're wanting to piece together a Bengals round table where we chat about some of the issues facing the Cincinnati Bengals. If we grow into using this more frequently, it could be something where we poll the questions from our readers and followers on Twitter for the most important questions facing the team. Hopefully it works.

In this edition, Jason Garrison and Naji Bsisu join Josh Kirkendall to randomly chat about some of the things facing the Cincinnati Bengals.

Jason Garrison: With four quarterbacks at camp, Dalton, Gradkowski, Palmer and LeFevour, who do you think the Bengals will let go?.... LeFevour or Palmer?
Naji: If it was me, I'd get rid of Palmer
Josh Kirkendall: Think about what the other brings. Palmer showed leadership qualities getting the players together during the offseason. LeFevour was a part of that, but kind of along for the ride. And LeFevour, from reports, hasn't been spectacular either. I don't know, to be honest. We'll find out when Jordan is allowed to practice but I'm pretty sure they'll keep Jordan.
Jason: You don't think Brown will release Jordan to rid himself of the entire Palmer family on the team, or maybe as a last insult to Carson?
Naji: By keeping Jordan, you keep the Carson issue in the background, if you want the team/fans to move forward I think you have to cut ties with Jordan.
Josh: I just don't see Jordan adding anything more to the discussion regarding Carson. Whether Jordan stays or goes, the same issues remain with Carson. It's not like if they release Jordan then all of the sudden Carson is forgotten. All of that is still an issue. And no, I don't think Mike Brown is that vindictive (and petty) to release Jordan out of spite for his brother.

Star-divide

Naji: Is Andre Smith's option going to be picked up?
Josh: I don't think they'll pick it before August 19. Just because he came into camp at 338 pounds, there's more history behind him with a questionable work ethic. They could always re-sign him to another contract if they're impressed enough at the end of the season.
Jason: yeah, I think he's going to have to prove that he's worth the team keeping around. I don't think they'll just look at his weight and hear that he's a changed man and then decide to throw a wad of cash at his face. He's going to have to prove it on the field and he hasn't done that.
Naji: If he maintains his weight and impresses the coaches, I'd hope they'd resign him before he hit free agency. It would suck for him to all of a sudden figure it out and then only help us for a year before moving on to another team.
Josh: He's signed through 2012, so if he plays well in 2011, we'll have a year before getting him under another contract. I just want to see him stay healthy for a full season. If he can't do that, the conversation about Smith's contract really takes a backseat.
Naji: True, not one of Marvin's/Mike's best picks
Josh: It was a very divisive pick, for sure. But it was a position that desperately needed to be addressed at the time and Jason Smith was already gone.
Jason: He still can prove that he was worth the No. 6 overall pick, though. But right now, I wish they would have signed somebody else. I hope Smith proves me wrong.
Josh: I still expect Anthony Collins to make an impression. That guy gets shafted by this team nearly as much as Evan Mathis did.
Naji: Do we ever know why Mathis never got a chance, it's hard to believe that the coaching staff couldn't see on film that he was the better option that Livings.
Jason: Who knows.
Josh: Asking the purpose in life is the only question that's more puzzling than Mathis.
Naji: I'd have to agree.

Josh: Is Cedric Benson still the answer at running back?
Jason: I think right now he is. He's the only guy on the roster that can carry the ball 20-25 time a game between the tackles.
Naji: I'd say he is for this year, but I think the team goes in a different direction next year.
Jason: Yeah, maybe they'll take a running back high in the draft next year or possibly actually spend some money on one in free agency. Either way, I think Benson is the man this year and then the Bengals go in a different direction
Josh: I'm of the school that running backs are starting to become a dime a dozen. You can find a good UDFA back that's largely effective and you could be alright. And you could always rotate running backs through, breaking down spot duty for 2-3 backs that carry the load.
Naji: Especially if you have a solid offensive line in front of them.

Jason: Are you guys a little surprised that the first over/under for the Bengals released this year was set at 7.5 games with -120 on over?
Josh: No. I'm more optimistic than most because I think they have one of the easier schedules. And I think the team will ease the transition on offense slowly enough to manage the game rather than the high-risk offense from last year. Then again I was optimistic before Johnathan Joseph signed with the Houston Texans Thursday night. That was a big blow.
Jason: Yea, it was.
Naji: That crushed my optimism for a while, so did losing Lutui, I was excited for some offensive line help
Josh: I wasn't so sure about him though. He had an issue with his weight in the past and from most reports, that's why the team failed his physical. He was a career starter at right guard, but he was going to make $5 million his first year. Did that mean he was going to move to left guard or backup Bobbie Williams?
Jason: Me too but I'd rather this happen than a repeat of the Antonio Bryant situation.
Naji: True, I just get excited when they sign a lineman with potential.
Jason: Bottom line, though, the team needs to get some help on the offensive line because with a rookie quarterback in the game, defenses like to send pressure.
Josh: I think we have the talent. Boling is getting a lot of work during Training Camp, an eventual starting left guard and if Andre Smith finally gets it and has the season we expect out of him, impressions could change tremendously. The thing I worry about is depth most of all. Backup center, Reggie Stephens, is inexperienced. Anthony Collins could backup both tackle positions and Livings would most likely be your first backup at guard (if Boling takes over). But that's about it.
Jason: Yeah, there's not a lot of depth there at all. Let's hope our linemen can stay healthy.

Jason: So what do you think happens with Michael Johnson this season? Does he start at defensive end opposite of Carlos Dunlap and ahead of Robert Geathers or does the team try moving him back to linebacker again?
Naji: Personally, I hope they keep him at defensive end, but with all the injuries at the linebacker position they may be tempted to move him back there again.
Josh: Reports we've read tends to suggest that the Michael Johnson experiment, at the very least, is on hold. Most of his snaps are coming as a defensive end. My prediction for opening day starters at defensive end will be Geathers and Johnson. That's where Johnson should stay, anyway. He was a productive end, even though he didn't have the sack numbers to back it up. But his pass rushes often forced quarterbacks to spin away into the loving embrace of Carlos Dunlap.
Jason: ...and Dunlap rotates in on Geathers side during obvious passing downs?
Josh: Geathers is one of the weaker pass rushers, but probably as strong as any defensive lineman on the team against the run; though he struggled a lot last season. I'd imagine Geathers would rotate out during passing situations.
Naji: If they re-sign Fanene I could see him rotating in as well on passing downs.
Josh: Wouldn't be surprising to see him as a defensive tackle during passing downs; before Odom's injury in 2009, that's often where Fanene would line up on third downs. But there's no indication that the team is bringing him back.
Naji: He's productive when healthy and I'm sure he would be cheap.

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These roundtables are good ideas.....they get a lot of opinions to discuss out there all at once.

Nice job on this one guys……

BTW…..Keep Palmer……for now……..no sense in throwing the baby out with the bathwater. If he gets up to speed, he can help Dalton with his transition. And Dalton
IS going to need help.

I am now and shall forever be the Cat in The Hat, The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!!!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Aug 1, 2011 12:52 PM EDT reply actions  

How does Dalton get the reps he needs?

If we keep 4 qbs through camp and expect Palmer or Lefevor to get beyond clueless in the offense, and get BG in a position to start if necessary, does Dalton really get the reps he needs to be a successful starter. I am reminded of Dick LeBeau’s quarterback competition that left nobody prepared to be effective as the starter.

by K312 on Aug 1, 2011 12:54 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Let Lefevor go......

I am now and shall forever be the Cat in The Hat, The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!!!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Aug 1, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

He’s the obvious choice… does anybody know if he can be signed to the practice squad? Thats probably a good place for him.

by The Dealio on Aug 1, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

No wayyfyy you let Lefevour go

are you guys serious, why in this world you wanna keep Jordan Palmer who has just one year left here over a promising two year rookie, thats just crazy talk, you realize Lefevour was considered the starter if a good QB wasnt drafted, the onlyyyyyy reason whyyyy Jordan Palmer isnt in the unemployment line is they need arms to throw to all the WRs in camp, when they cut him, he wont even have a job in the NFL, mark it down.

by Primal on Aug 1, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which part do I correct first?

How is LeFevour promising? He was NOT considered the starter if the team didn’t draft a QB; YOU, sir, kept saying he would be the starter on this site, but that doesn’t mean jack $hit in the real world, and it certainly doesn’t mean he was “considered the starter.” Jordan has a lot more experience than LeFevour, and he’s a better player in general. Maybe you like something about DLef, but there’s no substance behind your claims.

Home of the original Kitten Mittens.

by Pardon_My_French on Aug 1, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

if we didnt draft a qb

It ment gradkowski would be starting. No way the team didn’t sign a free agent to start. What has the 6th rd pick from the MAC conference done to show he’s promising? I like lefevour and all but he’s not even a legitimate 2nd qb at this point.

by JCompton41 on Aug 1, 2011 4:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Look at the stats

Palmer is a three year starter, look at his mobilty (rushing yards) and Interceptions in his last 2yrs … http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/10648/type/college/jordan-palmer

Compared to Dan Lefevour stats, a four year starter, look at his mobility (rushing yards) and look at his Interceptions in his last 2yrs … http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/13202/type/college/dan-lefevour

as you can see Dans numbers suggest in a West Coast Offense that he was more accurate and mobile in his final 2yrs, Jordan is in his 4th year and will be free agent next year, just makes more sense to keep Lefevour in only his second year so you can groom him along, and if you have been reading Reedy’s comments, Dan Lefevour has been looking very good in the first few practices, so my point is, do you stay with the era of change and stay with young talent or let Palmer stay one more year and realease youth at the 3rd QB spot, and do you really think Jordan will be ok with being the 3rd QB in his contract year? We’ve already seen what one Palmer will do if hes not happy, now havnt we?

by Primal on Aug 1, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like the format...

…easier to be a little more thoughtful in your responses when it’s more like a conversation.

On the QB situation—Palmer has demonstrated leadership but they obviously like Lefevour’s skills. Neither will end up being anything more than a quality career back up. Unless Lefevour really shows something in camp, its gonna be hard to not keep Palmer. That being said, I don’t think Palmer is the long term answer, but we have much bigger concerns at QB right now…is Dalton the one? and if not, then what do we do…

On Ced—Yes and no. Ced will work, I like him but he isn’t the best. The Bengals need to think about the future. We need to either sign or draft Ced’s replacement. It seems like we may be moving towards a RBBC approach, but that committee is still unclear. We also need to upgrade the line to make it work. With WCO, we need some pass catching threats. Not sure if Ced is that guy. Snelling?

On MJ—keep him at DE. He disappeared least year at LB…but we still need more depth at LB.

by goffchile on Aug 1, 2011 12:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Good post.

You guys have hit on the weakness the Bengals have, its depth. There is little in key areas such as Oline, line backers, safeties and corners. That will bite the Bengals as much as lack of talent.

by BENGALS69 on Aug 1, 2011 12:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Shaun O'Hara

Worth a two-year deal to act as back-up at center and guard?

by wiseking on Aug 1, 2011 12:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Good stuff guys.

Any thoughts about Rey’s transition to the Mike – his natural position? By all accounts, Rey has certainly embraced an enhanced leadership role, not only with the defense, but also with the entire team. I remember him saying (I’m paraphrasing here) something along the lines that he can’t be “just one of the guys walking around here” (I.e. the locker room), and that he “needs, and wants, to be a more vocal leader”.

I feel Rey’s development in the middle is as important to the success of the defense, as much as AD’s development at QB is important for the success of the offense. The Mike is the QB of the Defense. I hope he’s been picking Marvin’s brain with regard to how Ray Lewis conducted himself as THE team leader in Baltimore.

by The_Black_Stripes on Aug 1, 2011 1:05 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

GeoffHobsonCin Geoff Hobson
He s also impressed with Dunlap s maturity and Rey transition to mlb

joereedy Joe Reedy
Lewis pleased with growth of Gresham and Dunlap. Also transition of Maualuga to MLB #bengals

by Cry on Aug 1, 2011 1:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Some stuff from Reedy

A.J. Green made a double move on Leon Hall, where Hall slipped and Green was wide open for the reception.
Mike Nugent, who had knee surgery last year, hit all three of his field goals. He was good from 36, 39 and 44 yards.
LB Rey Maualuga had a couple tackles for loss on running plays.
Andy Dalton: Had a better day throwing. While A.J. Green has been making most of the highlight grabs, Andre Caldwell and Jerome Holland [sic] had a couple on Monday off Dalton throws.

by Cry on Aug 1, 2011 1:31 PM EDT reply actions  

Sorry...i hijacked your knights of the roundtable discussion....

  
With four quarterbacks at camp….
Ephram: Depends on what they think of Dan’s upside. If they think Dan has nice upside, you cut Jordan, because he’s never going to play unless something catastrophic happens to Andy & Bruce. On a side note, just because Jordan can schedule a practices doesn’t mean he can throw a football. The guys at the Delta office can schedule flights, but not all of them can fly the airplane, you know what I mean?

Is Andre Smith’s option going to be picked up?
Ephram: Looking back, the 4 big OT’s in that draft were Jason Smith, Andre Smith, Eugene Monroe & Michael Oher. Smith went #2 overall to St Louis. Oher fell to the middle-end of round 1 and the conventional wisdom was Eugene Monroe over A Smith. But Monroe has struggled mightily in pass protection for J’ville. Andre is still the stud OT of the group as long as he stays healthy and in shape. The coaches don’t seem sold on Collins (starting Roland over him) so i think they pick up Andre’s contract.
Ephram: I don’t get the whole Mathis thing, but some people just have "their guys". And Mathis was not one of "their guys". It’s why they don’t go after Brandon Johnson and why they didn’t start Dunlap for the first half of 2010. It’s probably why they let J Jo walk.
  
Is Cedric Benson still the answer at running back?
Ephram: Still? I don’t think he ever was the answer. He’s a great stop-gap that they grabbed off the street – but he’s not exactly "the answer. Yes he can run 20 times a game, but only gets 70 yards in the process. They should split the load between the more explosive backs.
    
Are you guys a little surprised that the first over/under for the Bengals?
Ephram: Yes. If they win 5 games I’ll be pleasantly amazed. I realize the schedule is easier, but the teams we are playing are also excited about their easy schedule because they get to play us. So the easy schedule thing goes both ways.
    
So what do you think happens with Michael Johnson this season?
Ephram: Before the injuries I’d like to see him at DE, but now… he probably helps the team most at LB. He hasn’t generated much pressure when he’s played on passing downs, though. Maybe he fell to round 3 for a reason? But he’s still a better rusher than Geathers. Maybe they can run some 3-4 formations for Johnson to play the 3-4 OLB spot? Last year Zimmer said they’d mix some 3-4 into their 4-3 base package. Although if the J Jo debacle is any indication – Zimmer may not even know what he is going to do this year :-)

by ephram on Aug 1, 2011 2:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Rid yourself of Palmer

Rid yourself of Palmer in the few season’s he’s been here he has done nothing other than Carson’s brother!. Your gone!

by Carl M on Aug 1, 2011 2:51 PM EDT reply actions  

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