Round Table: Should The Cincinnati Bengals Select Running Back Trent Richardson
by Josh Kirkendall on Jan 10, 2012 2:03 PM EST
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PrintAlabama running back Trent Richardson wasn't the MVP during Monday Night's National Championship Game, but it was his 34-yard touchdown that sealed the game -- though two Jeremy Shelley field goals worked just as well apparently. Richardson's touchdown was the first touchdown scored in eight quarters (plus overtime) between Alabama and LSU. Though he has yet to declare his intentions for next season, we're going to assume he makes the decision to enter the NFL. With a plausible scenario that the team will rebuild their running back position for next season, the question has to be asked: Should the Bengals select Trent Richardson presuming he'll be available?
Presuming that Trent Richardson is available 17th overall, should the Bengals pull the trigger?
Jason Garrison: They do need a new running back but there are much bigger holes on the roster that need to be filled. They can find a running back in free agency or later in the draft much easier than they would be able to find a cornerback, safety or lineman.
Josh Kirkendall: Even if the Cincinnati Bengals selected Trent Richardson, there's no reason to believe he'll be successful in the NFL. Why? Because there's only one offensive guard signed for 2012, Clint Boling. And if the Bengals bring back Nate Livings or Mike McGlynn, Richardson would have a very hard time being successful behind a mediocre offensive line in the run game. If there's a guard you can take 17th, you do it. If there's a safety or cornerback 21st overall, you do that too. Or vice versa. Doesn't matter.
Jason: I think that championship teams are built from the line out. I still think they could look for a running back in the second or third round, but the line needs to be the priority right now. Not just for the running game, but for Andy Dalton's protection as well.
Josh: First selection ever by Paul Brown for the Cincinnati Bengals, a center in Bob Johnson. But needs on this team aren't just limited to the offensive line. There's so many and of those, it seems to me that running back is probably the most available throughout most rounds whereas a great corner or safety is much harder to find. This team is close and they do need help at running back (and if they select Richardson, I won't complain), especially with the hopeful prognostication that Cedric Benson leaves, but using one of their two first round picks in the draft? I don't see it.
For those people arguing that the Bengals should trade up for Trent Richardson, what do you say to them?
Jason: I think that would be a terrible, terrible mistake. They completely give away the advantage that they have with two first-round picks that could help solidify both the offense and defense just to get somebody that probably would struggle behind a sub-par offensive line. It would just be like we didn't trade Carson Palmer and had another bad year that resulted in having an early pick. They need a cornerback, a safety, guards and wide receivers. Trading up would only hurt their chances of getting the players they need.
Josh: My only response to those people demanding to trade up for Richardson is this. Are you an idiot? You're risking the loss of another starter, no matter how you package it. If they grouped a first and third rounder to move up several slots to select Richardson, they'd still lose a potential starter, like a Jordan Shipley, Michael Johnson, Pat Sims. As you said, this team has too many needs to sacrifice positions in the draft just for one running back.
If the Bengals pass up Richardson with the No. 17 pick, and he's somehow available when the Bengals go back on the clock at No. 21, would you take him there?
Josh: Essentially there's four spots between Cincinnati's two first round selections. If you're not willing to take him 17th, then why wait until the 21st spot? Would the San Diego Chargers pass up the opportunity to add another offensive weapon? A team like the Chicago Bears might be pressed to select Richardson, depending on Matt Forte's future. No. If there's someone in the secondary, the offensive line or even at linebacker, I'd go there first.
Jason: First of all, I don't think there's really much of a chance that he would be around by the 17th pick, let alone the 21st, but if he is, I still think the Bengals should find players that fill their bigger needs in the first round.
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Yes 10000% if Trent Richardson is there at 17 take him! I would hope we are that dumb to pass up on a rb of his talent!
by Bfritts45 on Jan 10, 2012 2:09 PM EST via mobile reply actions
No
Not until the interior of the OL ranks higher than 30th.
by occams_tiger_teeth on Jan 10, 2012 2:11 PM EST reply actions
I would follow the other folks' suggestions here
sign Anthony Collins to play RT, move Tubby Smith to LG, draft the top rated Center or guard and if necessary move Cook to RG.
by occams_tiger_teeth on Jan 10, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
why does everyone want to put Collins at RT
When he couldn’t beat out Andre smith in the first place? Shoot, move Collins to lg or rg and leave Andre at tackle…moving Andre now would be about as pointless as it gets bc we’ve invested so much with him at RT- moving him to LG now would mean the last 3 seasons were an experiment with a 6th overall pick….
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
by TruWhoDey on Jan 11, 2012 1:19 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
FIX THE OL IN FREE AGENCY
rookies wont help right away.
Grab Richardson and Mark Barron
by Bengalsfan024 on Jan 10, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
Counterargument:
Maurkice Pouncey
by occams_tiger_teeth on Jan 10, 2012 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
The Pouncey brothers are good, not great.
Grubbs and Nicks are better. If Richardson is there at 17, you take him. But he won’t be.
This feels like the debate
we had last year with Aj Green, he’s tha same kind of differnce maker at RB that AJ is at WR…of course you take him…without a second thought
Wait a Sec
Otis Hudson and boling are still here.
We can find some more guards. at least richardson fits the WCO.
they don't look like world beaters
It’s really not difficult to get the data that drafting a running back in round 1 is rarely helpful. Stud linemen have longer careers, and often times make the running attack. This team has neglected the position (as they have the safety position) in the draft.
by occams_tiger_teeth on Jan 10, 2012 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
hudson is only here because he's alexander's current project
boiling couldnt beat out mcglynn.
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
That's right o linemen do have longer careers
So that makes it easier to find one in FA. If Richardson plays in the NFl like he did at bama, your not going to find that RB talent in FA. You take the guy if he’s there and that’s what they will do like it or not.
by Bigcatdaddy on Jan 10, 2012 3:33 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I can't argue that he'd be useless without an upgrade on the line...
But Richardson is a special talent. He’s not just the best RB in this year’s draft. He coudl be the best RB in the last 5 years’ drafts. The way I see it, there are only two guards in this draft that could potentially start on opening day: DeCastro and Glenn. DeCastro will almost certainly be gone before 17. So if Glenn and Richardson are there at 17, you face the option of picking the best RB in years or the 2nd best interior lineman THIS year. That doesn’t sound like much of a decision to me. There are some fantastic guards available in free agency. Hopefully we pick up one of them before the draft so we know what our situation is. If we can sign Nicks or Yanda or Grubbs, and maybe get Bobbie back on a cheap 1-2 year deal, then suddenly OG is a much much lower priority in the draft. Richardson would be too good to pass up if he falls to 17. He’s a top 3 player on just about every draft board. You can’t say “take the best player available!” and then pass on a top 3 talent at #17.
Also, the argument that a RB is no good without a good line doesn't go both ways
The Saints have, bar none, the best offensive line in football. They couldn’t do anything with it until they got Darren Sproles. Baltimore’s interior line is as good as they come, and it didn’t matter until they got Ray Rice. Houston’s line may be good enough to open up lanes for anyone, but it takes an Arian Foster to lead the league in rushing over a two year span. I think we’re ALL on board with moving on from Cedric Benson, which leaves us with Scott (not a feature back), Leonard (not a feature back), and Peerman (no one knows what he is exactly). So in a Marvin Lewis offense where you KNOW he wants one guy to get at least 20 touches a game, how is a bell cow back not a TOP priority?
Sproles only had like 600+ yards rushing - he did NOT make the Saints offensive line. The Saints line started to dominate in 2009, the year the won the SB when Nesbitt became injured and Carl Nicks stepped into the starting line-up
The Saints line was dominant in 2009 Superbowl year, when they were paving the way for the three-headed backfield (Pierre Thomas, Reggie Bush, and Mike Bell). Sproles has effective because of his all-purpose yards record he set this season, NOT because of his RUSHING yards total.
by The_Black_Stripes on Jan 10, 2012 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
I can
Look what Benson was able to do behind our line. He wasn’t great, but he didn’t even fracking try. A talented RB with a good attitude will tear it up, even behind our supposedly terrible line. There were MANY times this season when Benson got 6+ yards untouched, without ever dropping out of character and making anyone miss.
I agree the line needs to be upgraded, Livings and McGlynn aren’t good enough, but we desperately need a RB too. I’m fine with the WRs and LBs we have, as long as the line is upgraded and a really talented RB with a good attitude is brought in. A guy that can make people miss, break tackles, pass block, and catch the ball. That’s not wishing upon a star for a miracle, that’s just drafting a guy like Richardson.
I would be pissed if we traded up to get him, but since the Bengals have traded up 3 times in their entire history, I’m not too worried about that. That’s almost exclusvely a fan conversation. I would be happy to see Richardson drafted at 17 or 21, though. Unless a really special CB, G, or S is passed on. Those and RB are the 4 big areas of need. Draft the best guy available with each pick that’s one of those 4, unless it’s a 35+ pick reach, then just take best available overall.
Yanda is NOT a free agent
He signed a 5-year $32M deal this past offseason, right after the lockout ended.
Looking at Yanda’s contract, I would offer Ben Grubbs more money (both base salary and guaranteed money) in order to induce him to sign with the Bengals. I would offer 5-years, $37.5M to Grubbs, with close to $20M fully guaranteed (which is what the agents’ want anyway – i.e. the guaranteed money). 5-years/$37.5M averages out to $7.5M/season, which would be $1.1M MORE than Yanda’s average base salary of $6.4M (i.e. $32M/5-years).
by The_Black_Stripes on Jan 10, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
Have I just been imagining for the last 2 months that Yanda was going to be a free agent?
Maybe I’ve just been mixing up him and Grubbs the whole time.
Grubbs and Nicks are the premier FA Offensive Guards
Dan Connolly is also a quality FA Guard who has started 24 games over the past two seasons with the Patriots and is only 29 years old.
But I would give the world to sign Grubbs or Nicks.
Nicks’ current NO teammate – Jahri Evans – set the gold standard for interior O-linemen contracts. Evans is the highest paid OG in the NFL after signing a 7-year/$56.7M year contract in 2010 offseason. I know it’s not quite this simple, but Evans’ contract averages $8.1M a year, for 7 years.
I would have no problem offering Nicks $8.5-$9.0M/ year for 6 years and making him the highest paid OG in football. In other words, a big offer of 7-years/$60M would likely convince Carl Nicks to sign. The Bengals definitely have that money. The question is will they spend it??? Come play for us, Big Carl, and come block for the Drew Brees’ clone (i.e. Andy Dalton)
by The_Black_Stripes on Jan 10, 2012 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
+1000
He’s everything Marvin should want in a player. He’ll make every aspect of the offense better. He’ll make Dalton a Pro Bowler and can turn a 3rd round RB into a first rounder. He could turn Richardson into an All Pro.
I would buy season tickets if the Bengals signed Nicks!!
And I don’t live in Cincinnati. I generally go to 1-2 games a year, but with a Nicks signing, I would seriously consider making the couple hundred mile drive for home games. And the Bengals’ FO has to consider this too – i.e. the effect FA signings will have on the fan base, and ticket sales in general. Marvin said his goal is to make PBS into an atmosphere similar to what they experienced at Reliant Stadium this Saturday. If he is true to his word, then signing the premier offensive guard in all of pro football – Carl Nicks – would go a long in convincing fans to help restore the roar at PBS.
Agree about your point that he is the type of player Marvin covets.
by The_Black_Stripes on Jan 10, 2012 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
i'd resign collins as rt, move smith to lg, and draft a rg in the 1st or 2nd
and fire alexander if he didn’t get with that program.
and i’d offer bobbie a vet min deal with incentives to come back as depth
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
I'd like to see the line shuffle also
But I’m thinking that if it was that easy they would’ve done it already. Guard is not the same as Tackle, it’s not totally different but different. They have a whole off season to make it happen who knows.
by Bigcatdaddy on Jan 10, 2012 3:38 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Best Player available.
If there’s a guard that is rated the best guard in the draft worthy of the #17 or #21 picks, then we should go for it. If not, and Richardson is available, then absolutely we draft him.
Hell, if a player that should have been picked in the top 5-8 is available, then we draft him. We’re a team that could use upgrades at most positions regardless. We could go many different directions, but we should just pick whomever is available at the top of our board.
Guards, very good ones, are available later. Tackles are different.
We will be leaving something on the table if we draft a G in either the 17 or 21 spot IMO.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
You can find bust and gems in all rounds
I did a quick look up of starting guards in the nfl from the beginning of the season and what rnd they were taken. 1st 10, 2nd 11, 3rd 5, 4th 8, 5th 8, 6th 2, 7th 3, and UDFA 17.
by Bigcatdaddy on Jan 10, 2012 4:45 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
You also have to know talent when you see it.
Alexander says Boling has the potential to be great. IMO he would be the last one to know. Why this guy is still here is way beyond me. Our Oline has under performed for years and it isn’t just personell and if it is personell then we have even bigger problems. Talent like Green, Shipley and Gresham are no brainers. It is finding guys who fall to the later rounds where the Pats and Steelers etc. find them is the basis of why we have many of the problems we do. They pick up guys in the 5th, 6th and 7th rounds that become starters – good starters. Wr find 2-3 guys a draft if we are lucky.
I am not really down on Boling yet. Guards need a year or two under their belt to find their feet in most cases. He may come around. I am just not encouraged or at all impressed at this point in time. He hasn’t seemed to improve.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
Richardson has got 2 kids to take care of
So he might be easier to sign to a contract… got to put bread on the table.
Watching Stanford Jennings kick return in the Super Bowl was the out of body experience of my sports life.
To be honest...
That’s something that I don’t like about Richardson, as unfair as that sounds. Will he be the type of guy that coasts after signing a contract that’ll finally take care of his family? We don’t know. I also heard that he had a bad knee injury in high school. That scares me a little as well.
I wasn’t really impressed with him last night against LSU. I know that LSU has a great defense and the Tide wanted to throw the ball more, but what kind of defenses do you think he’ll face in the NFL? I just wasn’t all that enamored.
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by Anthony Cosenza on Jan 10, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
he had a lot of negative plays
didn’t he?
by occams_tiger_teeth on Jan 10, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
Here's why
he can cut like elite backs must do. He looked like he had elite speed, but only the combine will prove that.
It's a tough call
Running backs are just not as valued, since it is such a passing league…. so I really think he will be available. Barring injury he seems like a pretty safe pick. But you got to be able to pass in this league. Adrian Peterson, MJD, don’t help unless you can pass.
Watching Stanford Jennings kick return in the Super Bowl was the out of body experience of my sports life.
Richardson can run like AP but he can also catch out of the backfield
VERY productive as a receiving threat. He’s the perfect back for this system.
This whole argument just sounds SOOOOOOOO much like the anti-AJ talk that was all over this board last year. So many people (the editors included) didn’t think there was any justification for drafting a receiver high in the draft. People were moaning about Peter Warrick left and right. Is there a single player ANYONE would have rather we drafted at #4 last year? Anyone? If we draft Richardson and he produces like he has the potential to, no one is going to be disappointed.
We have the luxury to take Richardson
We can still nab a top guard with our other first round pick. And corner is so deep in this draft, there will be good starters in round 2 and 3.
Richardson is too good to pass up.
if he's there at 21, we have to take him
at 17, it depends who is still on the board. David DeCastro available at 17 somehow? hell yes you take him, he wont be there at 21. richardson, its possible he could fall to 21. unlikely, but possible.
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
He's special no doubt.
I hope the Bengals focus on signing two big, nasty guards in FA as well as a starting safety or corner. That would allow the Bengals to take a guy like Richardson as their first pick then get the best defensive front 7 guy left. Donta Hightower of the Tide looked awesome last night as a LB for example.
But after last night, Richardson will be gone before we pick at 17.
Another DLineman hat looked awesome
was Gentry
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 10, 2012 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
I was paying a lot of attention to him, too
He’s a senior and was a backup all year. He might go undrafted. I would definitely not be opposed to using a late round pick on him. Though I’ve seen more from Derek Wolfe this year, so in my mind he’s a more proven commodity. Then again, he wasn’t doing it against an SEC offensive line.
I'd prefer Mike Martin from Michigan (with maybe the second 5th round pick we got from NE in the Chad trade)
over Gentry.
And I would love Derek Wolfe (6’5" 300lbs). He’d be our version of Brett Keisel – except better, of course! Could play inside at Tackle, or outside at End. Very, very versatile and productive player.
by The_Black_Stripes on Jan 10, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
Wolfe reminds me a lot of Justin Smith
Could be flat out dominant if he’s used correctly, and with all the talent we have on the line he could be a tornado. Imagine him between Atkins and Dunlap? How do you block that?
I find the Justin Smith comparison very accurate!
In fact, from what I’ve read, scouts seem to think that Wolfe is best suited as a 5-technique d-lineman (i.e. a defensive end in a 3-4 scheme), much like Justin Smith.
That said, I still think Wolfe’s skill set is strong enough to the point that he would be very successful even on a 4-3 base team (as either an end or interior rusher – similar to how the Bengals have used Frostee Rucker or Jon Fanene).
by The_Black_Stripes on Jan 10, 2012 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
If Richardson is there and we don't take him it would be the biggestdraft blunder since Akili Smith
The fact that we only have one G under contract next isn’t a bad thing. None of then are potentialy anything more than mediocre. Getting Richardson without having to trade anything for him would be such a no brainer. Gs aren’t like Ts, they are much easier to find in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Get Richardson, get a CB or S with the 21st pick and go for a G in the 2nd and 3rd with one of those two picks. Bring another G in via FA and send these guys who have been looking like a matador waving the rush thru with a bunch of “ole!” BS. The only other offensive I want nearly as much as Richardson is Blackmon
Richardson isn’t just another RB. You are not going to find one easily. Okay I will conceet, pick up Ray Rice or Darren Sproles and we don’t need Richardson. I am a line first guy myself but this guiy is special. Not taking him at 17 is crazy talk IMO.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
dunno we've screwed up a couple of times in the draft since akili
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
stop reminding us steven jackson isnt our RB
by Bengalsfan024 on Jan 10, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
happens to me every year we play the rams
takes awhile before i push it out of my mind
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
Perry got hurt early. He was very talented and he never really got a chance to play healthy
Hey, I am an tOSU grad. I hate that team up north but Perry was a good playerand will take any chance I can to dis players from there, but Perry actually looked better than Jackson at the time or at least as good.. It wasn’t necessarily a bad decision. It was an unfortunate situation.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
we're seeing different views of the glass on this one
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
The only way I disagree...
Is that the big knock on Perry coming out was that he hadn’t played enough for anyone to know if he could be good consistently or, more importantly, how durable he was. Jackson had bigger tangible injury flags. It was definitely a bad situation all around. I still don’t think I would have drafted Perry in the first round just because he didn’t have a large enough body of work.
But the work he did was make LBs ,sS and CBs look really stupid grabing the air where he used to be.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
I'm not convinced that Richardson will as hot a commodity come draft day as everyone thinks.
Richardson is a “between the tackles back” similar to Mark Ingram. More and more teams are moving towards RBBC with pass catching backs (I think the Bengals should and are moving in this direction as well). Additionally if you look at recent history, RBs taken in the first round haven’t exactly proven their worth. In 2010 three RBs went in the first: No. 9, Spiller No. 12 Mathews No. 30 Best. None of them have torn it up, and all three have had injury issues. Similarly, last year, Mark Ingram was the first ball carrier off the board at No. 28. but he has also struggled.
Therefore, I have this feeling that Richardson will tumble come draft day.
As I’ve made clear in many other threads, if we do pick a RB, I’d prefer to have Lamar Miller. He’s a quicker back with good hands and game breaking speed. He’s a little smaller, but he’s also only a sophomore so he may still have more room to bulk up. That’s what we need.
spiller Mathews and best
Are also all smaller speed backs…spiller has his first oppty as a starter towards the end of this year and did pretty well. Mathews is an above avg back (when healthy) and so is best (1 more shot away from being retired). However Richardson is not a small dude but still has big play speed, and power….I know you all have heard his “max bench” is 450lbs and that only bc coaches wouldn’t let him try a higher weight… Richardson is the most perfect AFC North back to come around in a long time, and if he’s there at 17 we have to take him. Address cb or S at 21 then take a guard in the 2nd
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
by TruWhoDey on Jan 11, 2012 1:35 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
You have to take Richardson if he is availble at 21, which I highly doubt
If he is anything like Ray Rice in the NFL. We will be awfully hard to compete with in our own division. I think SS is our biggest need, so if the SS isn’t there by the 17th or 21st pick, ill take him in a heart beat.
AMAS
Take the best talent on the board at that pick
If Richardson is there then hell yeah you take him. If it’s a guard then you take him. You can find good solid linemen in FA a lot easier that a RB of Richardsons caliber. It’s like Ray Rice, the Ravens won’t let him leave and if they need a lineman they’ll go out and get one. Talented players like Richardson don’t come around everyday so why settle for less when you can have the best.
by Bigcatdaddy on Jan 10, 2012 3:29 PM EST via Android app reply actions
OL 1st
If the Bengals made OL moves in FA and get GOOD OGs then i can see getting Richardson at 17 (if he is there). But it starts up front. They have to better the OL before they do anything. If no changes to the OL before the draft they have to go maybe OL at 17 or 21. They got to think of Dalton. With a good OL an average back can look good.
Agreed
Probably wont’ get RB in FA – not worth it
Lot’s of options – sign Collins and a FA guard – move Smith to Guard – then draft RB and secondary.
They have to get some of these needs covered in FA – at least one guard and have some depth signed as well
It also depends if they think Boling can start, is a backup, or a bust
our needs as I see them are
Guard, Safety, Running back, and CB in that order BUT, if Richardson is available at 17 OR 21 we should pick him up. I’ve said it before No ther player in this draft will help the Bengals put butts in the seats and points on the board more than Richardson.
Boise State...
Martin!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONBzZDKI7IY
Take OL then grab this kid up! I swear he’ll be a steal.
If he's available at #17
Then YES, pick him up.
I would NOT trade up to get him though, that extra first round pick is too valuable to use up like that.
Imagine if we pass on him and he ends up being drafted by Pittsburgh or by Cleveland in the second (if he falls that far). Are you so confident that he won’t perform in the NFL you’d be willing to play against him twice a year? I’m not.
Others have said it, and I concur. Offensive linemen can be acquired in FA, and there will still be quality ones on the board by the time our second 1st round pick rolls around.
My priority in the draft is: 1st rd RB/OL, 2nd S, 3rd CB. This is assuming we don’t manage to acquire a starter at any of those positions in free agency. The only way I’d pass on Richardson if he is available is if we managed to sway someone like Ray Rice to come play for us before the draft.
If there’s a good O Lineman available at 17, chances are he’ll still be there at 21. The Chargers and the Bears are between our two 1st round picks, so there’s a decent chance one of them would tae him if he falls that far and we pass on him.
Also, the Browns have pick #22 as part of the trade they made last year with Atlanta. With Peyton Hillis wearing out his welcome in Cleveland, the Browns taking Richardson at #22 is a no-brainer. Do you want to play a team that has both Blackmon and Richardson on it twice a year? (Blackmon is who I think they’ll take with their first pick if he’s there)
Richardson is potentially dangerous enough that it isn’t just a case of bolstering your own offense, but also a case of preventing your divisional opponents from doing so as well.
So, yes. If he’s available when our first pick comes up, take him without a second thought.
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