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Around SBN: On Hazards And Hulks And Tigers, Oh My!

The Nick Saban Factor

The following is an expansion of a comment I made about 2 months ago, which got some positive feedback:

This year's draft will be an interesting one for the Cincinnati Bengals, who as we all know have two first-round picks (the 17th and the 21st overall). Most commentators cite the same four or five positional needs for the team: running back, cornerback, safety, offensive guard, and maybe an extra wide receiver or defensive tackle.

The B*S National Champion Alabama Crimson Tide have churned out a dozen or so NFL prospects, inluding three who would fit a need for the Bengals.

Star-divide

RB Trent Richardson was a Heisman Trophy candidate, and he's been instrumental to a team that's relied on defense and mistake-free football to win. Richardson has been the primary weapon on offense all season, and is considered the best 2012 RB prospect by a fairly large margin. He's unlikely to fall to No. 17, but if he does, you'd think the Bengals would take him in a heartbeat.

Corner Dre Kirkpatrick was long considered a top prospect for any needy NFL secondary until he was recently busted for marijuana possession. This little mishap dropped him out of the top 10, and possibly into Bengals draft territory. Kirkpatrick is considered a top 5 talent on some boards, and he'd be an excellent replacement for Johnathan Joseph, who walked in free agency in 2011.

Safety Mark Barron would also fill a need the Bengals have ignored for years. He's a big hitter who is a terror against the run, and he has decent coverage skills for a strong safety. Chris Crocker badly needs to be upgraded. He was terrible in the playoff loss at Houston.

So what's the point? What's the problem with taking these players? The problem is Andre Smith. Andresmith_medium

via www.sportsgrindent.com

Andre Smith has slowly turned into a contributor for the Bengals, but it took him a while, and he's still nowhere near a Pro-Bowl level. He's an OK player, but as a top-10 pick, he's been pretty much a bust..

When the Bengals selected Smith with the sixth overall pick in 2009, Bengals Nation groaned as heavily as Andre does when he sees that pizza is not for dinner. The Bengals' organization was somehow duped into believing Smith could be a hardworking contributor on this football team. How?

Nick f***ing Saban. That's how. Saban and his lying coaching staff convinced Marvin Lewis and the Gang that Smith was worth taking. Saban knew Andre wasn't a hard worker, but he needed to boost his reputation in the recruiting circuit, so he made sure Andre Smith was taken in the top 10. He gave the Bengals very positive reviews of Smith's abilities, including his work ethic. In retrospect,the Bengals can now see what a mistake it was to listen to the Godfather of Making Sh*t Up.

From the link (Peter King's July 2010 Training Camp Report):

Lewis is not happy with Andre Smith, the second-year tackle from Alabama. He doesn't think Alabama shot him straight with its pre-draft info (the kid's work ethic leaves a lot to be desired) and Smith was not diligent enough in the offseason rehabbing a foot injury.

I don't think this will completely rule out Alabama players getting drafted by Cincinnati, but it certainly hurts their position on the Bengals' Big Board. Marvin Lewis and Mike Brown won't be too eager to pick guys out of Tuscaloosa unless they really think they can play. Moreover, they won't trust Saban & Friends for a minute.

This probably won't hurt Richardson's chances of getting drafted by the Bengals. He's too good to pass up if he somehow falls to No. 17. But Barron wasn't a sure-fire first rounder in the first place. I don't think the Saban Factor bodes well for him.

Kirkpatrick, however, might get completely passed over by the Bengals now. His possession charge is going to kill his draft stock, and one of the biggest factors in rehabilitating a problem player's reputation is a good word from a coach. Coming from Alabama, that word will mean nothing to the Bengals. Zero. If the Bengals want a top-flight corner at a bargain price, ignoring off-the-field issues, they'd just as well go for Janoris Jenkins. He got kicked out of Florida, but I don't think that's a whole lot worse than any problem child from Bama. Lewis just doesn't want to deal with that again. He knows what he's getting from Jenkins. He can't say the same for any of the Crimson Tide.

This is just projection, but I see the Andre Smith debacle hurting the new Alabama prospects' chances of going to Cincinnati. It's not a sure thing for most players, but I really do believe it's a factor. Interested to read your thoughts. Rec it if you like it.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors.

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Like looking at the "man on the moon"...........

only now we’re looking at the “man on the gut.”

"The next person you see that throws something, point em out! You don’t live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"
- Sam Wyche

by The Van Buren Boys on Jan 18, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Good post and agreed........

I think the picture above pretty much says it all about our boy, although he has seemed to turn it around. I can’t help but think this is probably an issue with most college coaches though too, they will usually talk up their guys versus giving up confidential info that will really hurt their guys draft stock. It’s bad business for them for their recruits to drop in the draft, so doubt most other big time coaches are remarkably different from Saban.

"The next person you see that throws something, point em out! You don’t live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"
- Sam Wyche

by The Van Buren Boys on Jan 18, 2012 10:43 AM EST reply actions  

Is that a Hungry Hippopotamus on his tummy??

"What we do in this life echoes in eternity"

Maximus*

by gratefulmax on Jan 18, 2012 10:55 AM EST reply actions  

I think it looks like one of those weird Star Wars characters from the bar.......

they go to and run into the Bounty Hunter…….In Return of the Jedi I think.

"The next person you see that throws something, point em out! You don’t live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"
- Sam Wyche

by The Van Buren Boys on Jan 18, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

That’s the guy! Don’t know if he has a name or not, would be a great trivia question though. Well done PMF, well done.

"The next person you see that throws something, point em out! You don’t live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"
- Sam Wyche

by The Van Buren Boys on Jan 18, 2012 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't know, kinda looks like that guy.......it's the eyes I tell ya.

"The next person you see that throws something, point em out! You don’t live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"
- Sam Wyche

by The Van Buren Boys on Jan 18, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions  

and with you as well........

"The next person you see that throws something, point em out! You don’t live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"
- Sam Wyche

by The Van Buren Boys on Jan 18, 2012 11:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Good post, but not a good look for Andre

I agree, I do not think it will have any affect on Richardson if he falls. I still don’t see Kirkpatriic falling all the way to us because I really cannot see him getting past Dallas but if he does I still think we would take him. As for Barron, I may be in the minority but I think he’s moving up draft boards because the 2012 safety class just sucks and I’d actually prefer we do NOT draft him in the first round. We already have two SS that are suppose to be stong against the run but suceptible to the pass and we do not need another one of them (if his strength was pass coverage it would be a different story but it’s not). Therefore, I hope you are right and we don’t select him.

by biggie22 on Jan 18, 2012 11:13 AM EST reply actions  

Great Point Biggie.

"What we do in this life echoes in eternity"

Maximus*

by gratefulmax on Jan 18, 2012 11:21 AM EST reply actions  

I'm sorry, that's classified! :)

"The next person you see that throws something, point em out! You don’t live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"
- Sam Wyche

by The Van Buren Boys on Jan 18, 2012 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

You a Seinfeld fan?

"The next person you see that throws something, point em out! You don’t live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"
- Sam Wyche

by The Van Buren Boys on Jan 18, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions  

It's cute that you think that

but it’s not true. Andre was a workaholic, captain, and one of the highest character guys on his college team. Nick Saban was telling the truth when the Bengals staff asked about him.

The difference between then and now, however, has more to do with the coaches than Andre himself. He’s a kid, still. He has yet to grow up, still. Only recently has he taken responsibility for himself. In college, he had a head coach and a staff that was constantly on his ass, yelling at him if he stepped the wrong way, and he thrived in that environment.

When he got to Cincy, he was instantly put in a more adult world, with a coach who expects his players to ready themselves for play. That system did not suit Andre at first, but i think he still has the potential to turn it around, and is showing signs of that now.

I’m not saying which way is right or wrong, just that there were two different environments, and therefore two different results.

All that being said, as a Bengals fan, I do NOT want Kirkpatrick. He is selfish, obnoxious, arrogant, and not really that good, and that’s all before the arrest a couple days ago.

oh, and its “BCS” National Champion Alabama Crimson Tide, you made a typo

by Joe27 on Jan 18, 2012 12:08 PM EST reply actions  

They do have a playoff system

it’s just that only 2 teams make the field. Honestly though, I think a plus-1 system would be a good compromise, at least at that point, it’s a four team playoff.

I’m from Alabama, but my mother is from Cincy, she was in your typical 8 child catholic family, so I have something like 50 aunts/uncles/cousins in Cincy. I adopted the Bengals as my favorite pro team at an early age, despite the constant ridicule. I usually make it up there for a game per season.

by Joe27 on Jan 18, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry, the * key is close to the C key.

Or not. The BCS sucks, and even though Bama sort of won fairly this season, that doesn’t mean the system deserves any respect at all. It’s idiotic. Every year there is one fanbase in the entire country that defends it. Guess which one.

Anyway, Marvin’s quote is more to the point. We don’t know exactly why he didn’t think Alabama didn’t shoot him straight with pre-draft info, we just know that’s how Lewis felt. You can give me all your (biased) beliefs about Andre as a college kid, but Marvin asked Saban how Smith would translate into an NFL player, and he felt later like he was lied to.

Andy Dalton: An American Hero

by Pardon_My_French on Jan 18, 2012 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

i'd love a playoff more than anyone

that’s not the system in place now, though, so there is no reason to rip Bama because of it. If Oklahoma St. could beat a weak Iowa St. team, the conversation is moot.

I may seem to have a biased opinion in your view, but the fact is I started paying attention to this kid when he was recruited and signed with Bama in 06 out of Huffman high school in Birmingham. He was a beast as a freshman staring at left tackle, and continued to improve throughout his time in school and never had any issues, character or otherwise. There was absolutely no reason to believe his work ethic would become poor, how could you predict that from a kid who had great work ethic all three years in school?

The point: don’t blame Nick when the fault clearly lies with Andre.

by Joe27 on Jan 18, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Like I said,

I don’t know why exactly Marvin said that, but he did. This is how Marvin feels about Alabama, and I think it could affect the Bengals’ draft strategy (draftegy?)

Andy Dalton: An American Hero

by Pardon_My_French on Jan 18, 2012 5:54 PM EST up reply actions  

As heavy as he is

Take a closer look at the picture and you can see he is a POWERFUL man. Look at the arms, shoulders, neck, legs, the man is ripped. You don’t get like that without some work ethic.

2011 Year of the Red Rifle
Carson Palmer 2011 Comeback Player of the Year

by Throw the ball on Jan 18, 2012 1:52 PM EST reply actions  

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